jdavid_rp
macrumors 6502a
Then why "It’s about doing more with the ever increasing processing power."? Even with the iPhone Max you won't be able to use that processing power and you will be stuck with the same apps than an iPhone Mini.
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Other Could the 13 mini be repositioned as small mid-tier offering?
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skaertus
macrumors 601
That is basically it.
Two things do seem to entirely fit this strategy, at least for me.
The first is that the iPhone 12 Pro does not have any killer feature to differentiate it from the iPhone 12. Last year, I would buy the iPhone 11 Pro instead of the iPhone 11, as I felt the higher price was justified. This year, I would buy the iPhone 12 instead, regardless of the price difference being smaller, as the features in the iPhone 12 Pro do not seem very compelling to me.
The second is that people in many developing countries prefer larger phones. If Apple raises the price of its 6.1-inch model, how is it going to compete on a worldwide basis with the plethora of Android phones with large screens being offered for less than half or even less than a third of the price? Some of these Android phones have OLED screens and are becoming fast enough for everyday use. Is Apple planning to leave these markets to other manufacturers or to sell them the 2-year old iPhone XR, which, despite its age, is still double the price of many Android phones?
snipr125
macrumors 68030
Ok thats fair but i think you know what i mean, and you missed out the 5.8” size.
Also i did say that videos and Safari DO (as well as other apps) take advantage of the larger screen, its just that the home screen does not.
Counterpoint
www.counterpointresearch.com
Apple doesn't actually care about smaller phone market. I'd argue they are as niche as iPod Touch market. The purpose of the mini is to improve Apple's ASP while still maintaining the tagline "starts at $699."
I doubt Apple would do things differently with the 13 lineup. The mini is there so people wanting a regular iPhone would spend $100 more on the regular model.
However, I do think once the cost drops for Apple, the mini form factor would be pushed down as the next gen SE, putting in single camera and LCD screen. They can advertise it as the same/larger screen than original SE with a more compact form factor.
My guess for this year's lineup.
SE2: $349
XR: $499 for 128GB
11: $599
12 mini: $599 or discontinued
12: $699
13 mini: $699
13: $799
The gap between the SE2 and XR is to assume for a slot for the rumored SE Plus next year, with SE 5G at $399, SE Plus 5G at $499, XR discontinued.
Your guess lineup has far too many phones and similar price points.
IMO, the entire 12 line is gone to make way for the 13. And the 11 should be the only low cost large non-OLED phone.
Any other phone company would love the mini’s numbers.
It may eventually become the SE2, but in the interim, the mini needs something to kickstart sales.
Could a lower price and increased sales volume make up for a lower ASP?
Could a lower price and fewer features push buyers to the higher priced regular 12/13?
Currently it’s priced in no man’s land. Too close to the regular 12, but too far from a SE2 in price.
JPack
macrumors P6
I remembered the 5.8" but I don't think $999 qualifies as a mainstream iPhone. Apple went from 4.7" iPhone 8 in 2017 to 6.1" XR in 2018.
It just seems silly to think a company of Apple’s size can’t manage multiple iPhone skus. They’re selling more and more units of everything they make.
JPack
macrumors P6
A 6.7" chassis better allows the iPhone to use the processor due to better heat disspiation. And of course a larger display can show more content. Same apps, different experience.
snipr125
macrumors 68030
You are absolutely right regarding the heat dissipation and larger display, which is why I have the Ipad Air 4 as it gets the best performance out of the A14 Bionic. Iphone 12 Mini and Air 4... just a great combo those two, and I got both for less than an iphone 12 Pro Max.
LFC2020
macrumors P6
$100 cheaper ain’t going to be enough, it’s already crazy expensive in Aus for such a small phone, it’s even on sale at the moment, it’s still not cheap enough.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
First .. Apple did not ‘Raise the price of the 12 to accommodate the mini”
The price was set right from the beginning.
Also too much focus on price is for the USA as as well as teh 5G models. What our op doesn’t realize is the 12 mini and upcoming 13 mini already serves the target market the op has discussed. Outside of the USA the 12 mini doesn’t have 5G (at least in Canada).
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
False.
The smaller display size means less energy is used on the mini, thus less heat. ALL models using Qi charging heat up pretty warm due to how slim all units are.
So if you believe what you’re saying find us metrics that support it. More RAM on the Pro’s also use slightly more energy as well. Many videos show the mini on exhaustive automated battery life tests still perform almost neck and neck with the 12 / 12 Pro models for work being done (besides the camera differences or ProRAW work).
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
The mini is just fine. The SKU Issue is compounded by carrying forward 3yr old models in the sales mix.
2020-2021
12 Pro Max
12 Pro
12
12 mini
11 Pro
11
Xr
SE 2020
That’s 8 models, with various storage size skus (64GB - 512GB) … The Xr could‘ve been scrapped in 2020, keep the 11/11 Pro. The SE has a sweet spot not just being old and having older CPU but cheaper, yet mostly Touch ID holdouts … that heavily affected consideration of the Mini in a pandemic age.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
More sku’s usually means more flexibility. What flexibility are you referring to that’s being limited?
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
Hmm.
Other than the camera differences (and specific software of ProRaw) and Battery life … please explain how the 12 min cannot do:
Calls,
iMessage,
the same games across the entire iOS ecosystem,
TV shows, movies,
drivers license - limited by digital roll-out acceptance in your province/state/country (not the hardware),
car keys,
live text translation,
screen sharing,
etc.?
I’d like to see this explained where it doesnt’ involve disdain for a smaller model that suits a different demographic.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
Yet doing more is exactly what you can do.
Picture in Picture video works perfectly on the 12 mini as it does on the pro.
You’re forgetting iOS doesn’t CHANGE due to screen size.
The spacing between objects you interact with (Home Screen icons, text spacing, video (picture in picture or full screen), so called touch-targets for text selection, keyboard, etc are ALL relative to the screen size.
Only the Max has more icons on the screen I think, but when USING the device …
Pictures shown - may show a bit more of what’s captured on the Max/Pro vs the mini or the 12
the size of a pic-in-pic video seems to be bigger on the 12/12 Pro/12 Pro Max but the video content doesn’t show more !
^ it’s just simply ‘bigger’ to your eyes.
Again other than more of what you see on the screen of certain content (web pages, images shown in Photos, larger spacing of text, keyboard to type on for larger hands/fingers, etc) doesn‘t change.
Honestly comparing to what’s been on Android I’m VERY surprised Android phones in low end vs big large high end from stock doesn’t actually significantly give you more to use on the screen … its just spaced out more.
A tonne of bricks vs a tonne of sugar = which weighs more? 😉 The bricks visually and in our thoughts may seem to weigh more but the weight metric is the same. Maybe you can do more with a tonne of bricks vs sugar but that’s in the hands or eyes or minds of the end user.
fischersd
macrumors 603
Apple (and others commenting on Apple) just keep missing the mark. (though they finally entered the ballpark with the 12 mini).
There are a LOT of us that want a small phone with ALL of the pro features. We DON'T WANT a f*****g iPhad!!!
(and that people don't recognize how much market confidence was eroded during Covid is a bit laughable) - why sales numbers were down and why those of us that aren't lemmings didn't upgrade to the 12 mini (heh - not saying that people that did are lemmings - just saying the economic environment was different this year, so not everyone entered the queue) 😀
Then there's actually producing a discount phone for emerging markets (ala iPhone 5c).
Two tremendous market opportunities that the leadership at Apple just don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around.
Because - everyone wants a phone that can double as a coffee table. And, you know, we're a niche brand. F**k the people that aren't willing to commit 3 months salary to our product!!!
There are a LOT of us that want a small phone with ALL of the pro features. We DON'T WANT a f*****g iPhad!!!
(and that people don't recognize how much market confidence was eroded during Covid is a bit laughable) - why sales numbers were down and why those of us that aren't lemmings didn't upgrade to the 12 mini (heh - not saying that people that did are lemmings - just saying the economic environment was different this year, so not everyone entered the queue) 😀
Then there's actually producing a discount phone for emerging markets (ala iPhone 5c).
Two tremendous market opportunities that the leadership at Apple just don't seem to be able to wrap their heads around.
Because - everyone wants a phone that can double as a coffee table. And, you know, we're a niche brand. F**k the people that aren't willing to commit 3 months salary to our product!!!
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Barbareren
macrumors 6502a
skaertus
macrumors 601
Well, it depends on your perspective.
The price of the iPhone 12 was set at $829 from the beginning. But the corresponding previous models were the iPhone 11 ($699) and the iPhone XR ($749), both cheaper. So, yes, Apple raised the price for this line of products.
As for the iPhone 12 mini worldwide, here in Brazil it has 5G and sells for $1399 and up. It is set at the very high-end market. The Galaxy S21, for instance, sells for $850, and the Galaxy S21 Ultra sells for the very same $1400 (and both have 5G).
JPack
macrumors P6
Apple iPhone 12 mini review
All new iPhones come with the iOS 14.1 pre-installed, but the iOS 14.2 will be already waiting for you in Settings. It's a minor update over the iOS 14.1...
Sustained performance on the iPhone 12 mini is significantly worse compared to iPhone 12 and 12 Pro.
It's a simple matter of common sense and physics. You cannot dissipate as much heat using a small chassis.
JPack
macrumors P6
You can also eat spaghetti with a spoon. You're pretending this is a binary problem. A large display offers more space for better productivity and content. It's about how well a user can do it.
JPack
macrumors P6
What kind of straw man argument is that? Why is most of your argument is focused on the Home Screen. Do you stare at the Home Screen most of the time?
I think they will only keep the old regular version. The mini sales would split too much. It's already very small as it is.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
That’s exactly what I’ve been saying - you’re only looking at my comments as binary issue 😉 The OS is the limitation … show me how much more productive an skilled iOS user is on the Pro vs the mini that has not to do with: battery life comparison, cameras and ProRes.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
Straw man lol. I wasn’t focusing on Home Screen, I mentioned it not focused on it. Oh wow the 12/12 Pro only shows 2.1 lines of a website more. My point is the larger screens don‘t show too much more - in apps, text, etc. Sure the Pro Max seems significant yet when you start using apps (forgiving non ProRaw enabled apps or specific camera apps that take advantage of the 3rd camera) - the same work, the same apps the same navigation etc is used. What you actually DO with the phone, again beyond the camera or how long you can use it, doesn’t change.
I still have OLED screen,
I still have access to all the apps in App Store,
I still have access to ALL the Apple iOS features, and services.
Sure you have a few features more on the 12 Pro / 12 Pro Max but ultimately their all the same generation iPhone with the same cpu/gpu combination, same RAM speeds as well.
Going forward I think Apple should properly differentiate the Pro, Pro Max models in terms of how you use them, how the OS adjusts to their features/screen size etc.
PS: Font size can affect how much more you can see on the screen of all models - THAT is where the Pro Max will really shine with smaller font levels.