Coupes: 2015 Honda Accord V6 or 2012 BMW 328i

[iLog.Genius]

Let's be realistic, the battery is a prime example. My old Grand Cherokee I could replace the battery by opening the hood, disconnecting the leads, pulling out the battery, and dropping in a new one.

I now drive a 2009 e60 535 xdrive that belonged to my father. I just had to replace the battery- it cost nearly $500 (this was on Friday). Although the battery is harder to access, the real problem is the battery requires "programming" from the dealer. I have read this may or may not always be necessary, but personally I don't want to screw with the electrical system here. The final breakdown was roughly $250 for the battery, $150 for installation, and $80 for programming. $500!!!

In most other cars the owner can just drop in a new battery for $130 (usually with a free install from the auto parts store). So in the BMW not only are parts (and labor) more expensive, repairs more complicated due to design, and reliability generally worse, there are an increasing number of circumstances where special software is needed to work on the car. These programs usually cost thousands so it's not in the budget for a typical owner.

This is already been mentioned and suggested. If you can afford to maintain a German car, great you should consider it with a great car like the 2015 Accord. No one is debating that going back to the dealer is in fact costly and is probably the biggest deterrent for buying a German car. If you can afford and don't mind the trip to the dealer, it's a moot point.

Now doing everything yourself is a different. Going back to the battery, I've worked on an Acura RSX before and I will admit that it's a lot easier to work on it because everything is easily accessible vs. a German car but I wouldn't say it's a lot more difficult to do - so I have to remove a panel before getting to something but that's hardly a problem if you know how to use a screwdriver/wrench. As for the price of the battery, maybe the cost of a car battery for a Honda/Acura is $130. I got a battery from BMW for $190 (cheaper if you find a compatible one elsewhere). Yes it's more expensive but nothing to really complain about if you can afford a BMW. As for programming, you don't have to go back to BMW to do it, any competent or good indy can do it for you and that will run you $20-50 tops. So after everything is done, it's $130 for Honda vs. $240 BMW. More expensive? Yes but not extremely significant and again if you can afford the maintenance, it's not that bad when compared to the $500 that you paid to have it done.

As for the software, any OBD tool or software will do if you're looking to scan/erase codes and those can be an inexpensive tool. Now there are extreme cases where the software won't work and you HAVE to go back to the dealer but that would usually mean it's a serious problem with the car in which case you would go back to the dealer/garage regardless if it's BMW or Honda.

Yeah, that's what did me in with our last (as in final) BMW, X5 4.4i, real street hotrod, not a _bad_ SUV[-esque] car platform vehicle, even a decent tow capacity.

It got close to needing brakes - just pads (even though the dealer suggested a full rotor replacement**) - and when I researched the OEM pads I was a little surprised by the price, found some aftermarket that were a bit better (some of my "go to" brands for other vehicles) - *but* I found out that the ABS sensor required a reset/recal after disconnect (which was required to rotate the caliper to be able to install the pads), and that required a BMW specific tool.

For this discussion, let's forget about OEM. What would be your aftermarket go to brake pad manufacturer? I'm fairly confident that there would be a set for BMW that would be in the same ballpark. At the top of my head, whether the brake pad is from ATE ($50-60), Akebono ($80-100), prices for pads whether it be for BMW or Honda, it's going to be roughly the same. This is the same as the ABS wheel speed sensor. $30 for the sensor and no special BMW tool required. Any OBD scanner will work to reset/erase the code and it's not specific to German cars, Honda's need to do this as well.

Again, this is not to offend/argue with anyone. Everyone has a certain level of patience and tolerance when it comes to cars. All I want to show is that the cost/trouble of maintaining a German car is sometimes over exaggerated.

 

[duffman9000]

two completely different cars. the 328 is a turbo charged rear wheel drive 4 cylinder 50/50 balanced and the accord is a front wheel drive v6 that's 10% heavier on the front end.

Oh I agree. I love driving the 328 and I merely like driving the Accord.

you'll have to weigh out the pleasure of driving vs the piece of mind of honda reliability. i own a 135i and a acura tl. both are great cars for different reasons. the acura (honda) is reliable and inexpensive to maintain and offers a nice ride. the bmw is expensive to maintain but is the "drivers" car.

I've never owned a drivers car. Driving the 328 feels so good. The Accord has a series of small irks that bother me.

if you find yourself to be a driving enthusiast above all else, the bmw is the car to have, if you find yourself to be practical minded, the honda makes more sense.

just my opinion since i've owned 3 honda accords, and currently own an acura tl and a bmw 135i.

Maybe I'm having an early mid life crisis? I'm tired of being practical minded lol.

 

[nebo1ss]

BMW is not for those with squeamishness when it comes to maintenance. My 328xi is a blast to drive and is all around awesome, but the repairs and maintenance costs are digusting.

Even simple things like changing the battery are difficult.

It's my last German car for sure.

I hear this all the time but I have owned multiple BMW's and its not my experience. My worst experience with maintenance Bills was a Jeep Grand cherokee Limited. The air-con failed twice each time it required removing the dashboard to get at the problem $1,000 each time. Also had drive train problems.

 

[duffman9000]

OP is looking at the 328i coupe, and that is still the older E46 platform with the inline 6. You are thinking of the new 428i that is the coupe version of the F30 platform 328i with the turbo 4.



Have you seen the new M235i? If you like your 135i, you will really like the M325i.

I test drove a 2014 428i. I loved it I ain't gonna lie. First car I've driven that had stop/start. I don't know what to make of that. Reviewers don't like it, but it didn't bother me to much on my short test drive.

 

[Technarchy]

I hear this all the time but I have owned multiple BMW's and its not my experience. My worst experience with maintenance Bills was a Jeep Grand cherokee Limited. The air-con failed twice each time it required removing the dashboard to get at the problem $1,000 each time. Also had drive train problems.

Who recommended the Jeep as an alternative? Jeeps are not typically cross shopped with Bimmers either.

Jeeps are also turds in my book so I'm not at all surprised by your anecdote.

 

[smithrh]

Doh! Yeah... I meant E90 platform of course. I should have remembered because I owned two.

Wait a sec... are you also Weaselboy from e90post then?

 

[Weaselboy]

I test drove a 2014 428i. I loved it I ain't gonna lie. First car I've driven that had stop/start. I don't know what to make of that. Reviewers don't like it, but it didn't bother me to much on my short test drive.

Starting with the 2014s there is a button on the dash where you can just that off and it will stay off. I'm not a fan of it and find it annoying.

 

[duffman9000]

My point was on_the_street at 5[to maybe 6]/10ths, for most people, that the difference in something like a 328 is probably less valuable than a little more light-to-light grunt. The OP said the liked the 328 "feel", so maybe he's a good candidate to trade a few model years, an older chassis for that slight difference, but he is cross shopping an Accord so there must be some appeal.

The Accord has a lot of appealing features. The V6 coupe is more than quick enough for my tastes. If I choose an automatic the gas mileage will be IMO pretty good. The MT puts down something like 240 whp which is kinda shocking. I'm somewhat tired of MTs and I could accept a AT if the shifts were a little firmer.

Even in the EX-L trim, the Accord doesn't have an upscale cabin. I know, if I want that get an Acura, but I don't like the recent body styles. Plus, my wife has a 4D and I don't want another one. Another irk is I can't get a color combination on the Accord that I really like.

The 328 is a completely different car and does away with the irks the Accord has. But maintenance will be more expensive. Someone mentioned steering clear from turbo'd BMWs and I agree. I'm already getting into a more expensive maintenance programs and I don't want to make this even more expensive.

Thanks for the input everyone. This is more fun than going to a BMW CPO lot. The last couple of days have not been fun.

 

[D.T.]

For this discussion, let's forget about OEM. What would be your aftermarket go to brake pad manufacturer? I'm fairly confident that there would be a set for BMW that would be in the same ballpark. At the top of my head, whether the brake pad is from ATE ($50-60), Akebono ($80-100), prices for pads whether it be for BMW or Honda, it's going to be roughly the same. This is the same as the ABS wheel speed sensor. $30 for the sensor and no special BMW tool required. Any OBD scanner will work to reset/erase the code and it's not specific to German cars, Honda's need to do this as well.

Again, this is not to offend/argue with anyone. Everyone has a certain level of patience and tolerance when it comes to cars. All I want to show is that the cost/trouble of maintaining a German car is sometimes over exaggerated.

Heck, I don't recall what I researched (since I didn't actually buy), probably Hawk, EBC, maybe Raybestos - I do recall that aftermarket were about 1/2 the dealer, 50% OEM sourced online and ~50% more than C5 I owned at the time. I have no idea if the X5 shared the pad with any other BMW product, so maybe it was a price based on production/availability at the time.

I didn't have my ODB scanner any longer, but I was told it wouldn't reset the code properly, which may have been bunk, but I was concerned about having to do it and buy/borrow another scanner. Maybe it would've been pretty straight forward, admittedly I wasn't as versed with BMW as I was some other brands (had two C5s, both tracked, so lots of DIY pad swaps without any issues).

However, just to illustrate your point, by reversing the situation

Our 4Runner (V8 LTD AWD) came optioned with a pretty neat suspension setup where the opposite corner shocks are/were tied together, and through a hydraulic leveling system called X-REAS, it provides flatter handling when cornering. Well, we had a leak in a front strut at 75K miles, 6 years into ownership (so well out of warranty, car was bought new), so when I was getting some new tires put on I was just going to have new struts put on while it was up in the air, they could align it, etc.

Well come to find out (after the mechanics get the wrong struts), the correct X-REAS part is twice the price (with no aftermarket direct replacement), and the swap is spec'ed at nearly 50% the time, plus all sort of concerns over depressurizing the system, and to top it off, that would mean keeping the rear OEM, with the same eventual extra replacement cost, concerns.

Long story short, Bilsteins 5100s, FJ OEM springs, 1/2 the price, no more extra hydraulics to worry about, better handling, even a nice little 3/4" lift

So sometimes it's a matter of the specific engineering, not the brand, i.e., Toytotas can have costly, proprietary problems, and BMWs can have brakes that aren't any more expensive to service than a Honda

 

[nebo1ss]

Starting with the 2014s there is a button on the dash where you can just that off and it will stay off. I'm not a fan of it and find it annoying.

It is annoying if driving in heavy traffic and I do turn it off then. However, It is useful for just the occasional stop light and the restart time when you touch the gas is amazing.

 

[D.T.]

The 328 is a completely different car and does away with the irks the Accord has. But maintenance will be more expensive. Someone mentioned steering clear from turbo'd BMWs and I agree. I'm already getting into a more expensive maintenance programs and I don't want to make this even more expensive.

Thanks for the input everyone. This is more fun than going to a BMW CPO lot. The last couple of days have not been fun.

I'd suspect there's a different feel, there's a different, er, call it design philosophy. My wife had a Z3 and it was incredibly dialed in for a non-M "chick car"

I _love_ the BMW turbo inline 6s, but I'm a huge fan of factory FI, it usually had a nice built in tunability that's pretty substantial, though of course then you're really taking your chances (even with a car under warranty).

Yeah, I think (I would hope) that most people are posting real help or at least trying to have fun with the topic, and wow, yeah, I feel you. As much as an enthusiast as I am, the actual process of shopping (unless you're a drive in, sign and drive out kind of no haggling person) can be painful.

 

[duffman9000]

Yeah, I think (I would hope) that most people are posting real help or at least trying to have fun with the topic, and wow, yeah, I feel you. As much as an enthusiast as I am, the actual process of shopping (unless you're a drive in, sign and drive out kind of no haggling person) can be painful.

I spent the weekend trying to buy a car. The Honda dealer has been more helpful despite the typical car salesman snide remarks about other makes. Negotiations start at 15% off MSRP. This will allow me to get a car out the door for under 30K.

I went to 3 BMW dealers. The people at the first CPO lot basically ignored me. No one asked me a question and I was there for a while. I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's true. I was absolutely steamed after I left.

The second place tried to help me, but it didn't have what I wanted. I test drove a car with AWD which is non-starter for me. Definitely not looking for an AWD car and I don't understand why sales ignore when a person says the car is too much car for me. And it is. Knowing myself will save me money.

The 3rd CPO lot I was immediately upsold to a used 335i. After I declined I was basically ignored. I asked to test drive a 328 with an M sport package and I was told that I wouldn't want to drive it because I wouldn't feel the difference compared to another 328 on the lot. At this point I'm left wondering if I want to join the same club as these "people".

 

[iLog.Genius]

Heck, I don't recall what I researched (since I didn't actually buy), probably Hawk, EBC, maybe Raybestos - I do recall that aftermarket were about 1/2 the dealer, 50% OEM sourced online and ~50% more than C5 I owned at the time. I have no idea if the X5 shared the pad with any other BMW product, so maybe it was a price based on production/availability at the time.

I didn't have my ODB scanner any longer, but I was told it wouldn't reset the code properly, which may have been bunk, but I was concerned about having to do it and buy/borrow another scanner. Maybe it would've been pretty straight forward, admittedly I wasn't as versed with BMW as I was some other brands (had two C5s, both tracked, so lots of DIY pad swaps without any issues).

So sometimes it's a matter of the specific engineering, not the brand, i.e., Toytotas can have costly, proprietary problems, and BMWs can have brakes that aren't any more expensive to service than a Honda

That's fair. Coming from a family who drives mostly BMW's, I've become comfortable and familiar with them and know what is easily DIY-able vs. what needs to be brought to the dealer (luckily for me, never had to do that latter) and how comparable the costs are to other non-German manufacturers.

I 100% agree with your last point and I think it sums it up nicely. No matter what, everyone is going to have to change oil, spark plugs, light bulbs, etc. If you're going to do the work yourself, these all cost more/less the same regardless of what car you drive, anyone telling you different are full of it. Like D.T. stated, if something more serious fails and needs replacing, it's no cheaper to have it fail on a Toyota or a Honda, it's still going to cost you thousands of dollars.

To OP, if he/she isn't planning on doing any maintenance on their own, I would stay away from the E92 328i because, while not that expensive, I can tell them right now what is going to fail and would need replacing. The other option is to get a CPO BMW and get rid of it after it expires.

 

[duffman9000]

To OP, if he/she isn't planning on doing any maintenance on their own, I would stay away from the E92 328i because, while not that expensive, I can tell them right now what is going to fail and would need replacing. The other option is to get a CPO BMW and get rid of it after it expires.

Oh I'm planning to do whatever maintenance I can myself. Can you please post what is going to fail? I recall that on some BMWs the radiator fluid will outlive the radiator. The radiator should be replaced outright at about 80K miles. Yikes... to I really want to get into this? LOL...

If I get one it will definitely be CPO. On the car's I'm looking at I will have a warranty into 2018. Not very long and I hope I have the option for a longer warranty.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Oh I'm planning to do whatever maintenance I can myself. Can you please post what is going to fail? I recall that on some BMWs the radiator fluid will outlive the radiator. The radiator should be replaced outright at about 80K miles. Yikes... to I really want to get into this? LOL...

Like everything, anything part of the car can fail at any time but I don't think you have to worry about the radiator failing. It hasn't come up much on BMW forums so it's one of those things that could fail but rarely does.

For the E90/E91/E92/E93, these things are bound to fail/need replacing:

Waterpump (from 80,000 to 100,000 miles, rarely does it fail before that but it has happened. You would also replace the thermostat at the same time).

Leak Diagnosis pump/module (a known and annoying failure going back to E46 days, but not that expensive to replace).

Luckliy for you, the 323i/325i/328i/330i are a lot more headache/trouble-free compared to the 335i where there are more issues related to the turbos and fuel pumps. While covered under warranty, it's just a hassle that you will need to deal with it. Those are the main/common problems, everything else would be wear/tear items.

 

[Melrose]

Get a Mazda.


Cheaper than the Bimmer, sportier than the Honda.

 

[Natzoo]

I have a mercedes that is over 14 years old and it still runs new. I just had to replace the windshield because i poured cold water on it because of the snow and forgot to turn off the defroster. BMW's are really nice to have and are a luxury vehicle. While a Honda isn't luxury at all compared to it. It just depends on the warranty. Maybe consider a 2014-2015 mercedes benz GLA or GLK? or if you want a car you can easily find pretty cheap C classes. Hope this helps!

 

[A.Goldberg]

This is already been mentioned and suggested. If you can afford to maintain a German car, great you should consider it with a great car like the 2015 Accord. No one is debating that going back to the dealer is in fact costly and is probably the biggest deterrent for buying a German car. If you can afford and don't mind the trip to the dealer, it's a moot point.

My point was to illustrate the cost of a BMW. It's easy to say "it costs more" but what does the realistically translate to? Additionally "affording" just doesn't come down to cost, but also convenience. If I have to get the battery reprogrammed, that means I also have to take it to the dealer (or somewhere) to get it done which takes time out of my day.

Now doing everything yourself is a different. Going back to the battery, I've worked on an Acura RSX before and I will admit that it's a lot easier to work on it because everything is easily accessible vs. a German car but I wouldn't say it's a lot more difficult to do - so I have to remove a panel before getting to something but that's hardly a problem if you know how to use a screwdriver/wrench. As for the price of the battery, maybe the cost of a car battery for a Honda/Acura is $130. I got a battery from BMW for $190 (cheaper if you find a compatible one elsewhere). Yes it's more expensive but nothing to really complain about if you can afford a BMW. As for programming, you don't have to go back to BMW to do it, any competent or good indy can do it for you and that will run you $20-50 tops. So after everything is done, it's $130 for Honda vs. $240 BMW. More expensive? Yes but not extremely significant and again if you can afford the maintenance, it's not that bad when compared to the $500 that you paid to have it done.

I have never seen a place hook up their computers for less than $40, but I suppose that could be a regional thing. But again, it's paying for something you probably wouldn't have to in a Honda. Again my point here is to illustrate the price difference. $240 vs $130 visually may not seem like a huge difference, but its almost 46% more expensive, which statistically speaking is a lot. If you consider a nearly double price on every repair, with more repairs in general, it ends up being a lot of money. Yes, we know German cars cost more, but how much more? In this case 46% more than a Honda doing it yourself. 74% more if you take the BMW to a dealer.

As for the software, any OBD tool or software will do if you're looking to scan/erase codes and those can be an inexpensive tool. Now there are extreme cases where the software won't work and you HAVE to go back to the dealer but that would usually mean it's a serious problem with the car in which case you would go back to the dealer/garage regardless if it's BMW or Honda.

The standard OBDII is very handy works for clearing some things, but not everything. In my experience (family also drives mostly european cars) OBD only works for reading and clearing most engine/emissions system related codes. OBD/eOBD generally does not work with ABS, airbag, transmission, or suspension codes (at least with any BMW, Land Rover, Audi, or Volvo I've tried it on). OBD will save some money here and there but there is an increasing list of things that now must be controlled through separate programs the manufacturer puts in and must be read/cleared through programs like TestBook, Autologic, etc. The other point is also that that euro cars tend to have more problems and more likely need special programs, and therefore it's not an apples to apples comparison. Exampe: most cars don't require "reprogramming" after a battery or brake pad change.

Any OBD scanner will work to reset/erase the code and it's not specific to German cars, Honda's need to do this as well.

I believe if you can in fact reset the ABS faults with a standard ODBII reader, it would be dependent on the model of the car. In my experience I have never been able to clear an ABS fault in a BMW, Audi, or Land Rover (designed/built under BMW). To be fair, I will say there are some readers than can do more than a standard OBD reader, but consequently cost more.

Again, this is not to offend/argue with anyone. Everyone has a certain level of patience and tolerance when it comes to cars. All I want to show is that the cost/trouble of maintaining a German car is sometimes over exaggerated.

I don't see what you're saying as arguing and I respect your opinion and experience. In my opinion I think you are oversimplifying the differences in ownership, but that's my opinion based on my experience and I respect that you have yours. I don't think you're considering point I am/we are making. We were providing examples of how much more expensive a BMW is to own that more conventional cars to help our fellow member on making the best choice for his needs. We are also showing that even if he intends on doing work himself, he may still have to pay the dealer/repair shop to clear faults and take time out of his day to do so. "Trouble" of course is subjective, but it can however be seen as relative. That's the point I'm making.

That is why I will go back to my previous point for the OP. If you're a car enthusiast, looking for a drivers car, and willing to spend substantially more money, more often, into a car (aka not an asset), then get the BMW. If the BMW is something you're passionate about, it will be worth whatever cost. If a car to you more about to getting from point A to B without a issue, go for the Honda. If you can afford the BMW but see yourself as having other financial priorities now or down the road, then the Honda would be the better choice.

 

[iLog.Genius]

My point was to illustrate the cost of a BMW. It's easy to say "it costs more" but what does the realistically translate to? Additionally "affording" just doesn't come down to cost, but also convenience. If I have to get the battery reprogrammed, that means I also have to take it to the dealer (or somewhere) to get it done which takes time out of my day.

100% agree. It was not my intention to disregard the value of time, so if my comments came off like that, I apologize. I think there's a general assumption that time is considered part of the cost of owning any car.

I have never seen a place hook up their computers for less than $40, but I suppose that could be a regional thing. But again, it's paying for something you probably wouldn't have to in a Honda. Again my point here is to illustrate the price difference. $240 vs $130 visually may not seem like a huge difference, but its almost 46% more expensive, which statistically speaking is a lot. If you consider a nearly double price on every repair, with more repairs in general, it ends up being a lot of money. Yes, we know German cars cost more, but how much more? In this case 46% more than a Honda doing it yourself. 74% more if you take the BMW to a dealer.

Again, not my intention ignore the fact that it is 46% more expensive. All I was trying to illustrate is the difference between $240 and $500. I don't care who you are or what you do, $500 for a battery change is excessive. OP might read what you posted and be immediately discouraged. All I did was try and post a realistic figure that would be in the OP's favour. Is $240 still quite a bit? Yes. But they might look at that as something that could deal with instead of being totally put off at $500.

I believe if you can in fact reset the ABS faults with a standard ODBII reader, it would be dependent on the model of the car. In my experience I have never been able to clear an ABS fault in a BMW, Audi, or Land Rover (designed/built under BMW). To be fair, I will say there are some readers than can do more than a standard OBD reader, but consequently cost more.

I definitely know there is. But it will cost you more than the average 50 or so dollar reader.

I don't see what you're saying as arguing and I respect your opinion and experience. In my opinion I think you are oversimplifying the differences in ownership, but that's my opinion based on my experience and I respect that you have yours. I don't think you're considering point I am/we are making. We were providing examples of how much more expensive a BMW is to own that more conventional cars to help our fellow member on making the best choice for his needs. We are also showing that even if he intends on doing work himself, he may still have to pay the dealer/repair shop to clear faults and take time out of his day to do so. "Trouble" of course is subjective, but it can however be seen as relative. That's the point I'm making.

I wasn't trying to offend you or anyone here. Yes, it is an obvious fact different cars are going to cost more to maintain. I don't expect the cost of owning a BMW to be the same as a Chevrolet Spark. But a 2015 Honda Accord? They're not that much different. General wear and tear items don't cost that much different. Both use sensors so any problem with resetting on a BMW, you're likely to have the same problem on the Honda.

Everything I posted was all informational and wasn't directly pointed at anyone. I was merely trying to disprove the idea that German cars a lot more expensive to maintain. For this conversation I will agree that having to program a battery is a hassle but that's it, everything else in terms of maintenance is not even close to being as bad as people believe when they think of German cars.

 

[duffman9000]

That is why I will go back to my previous point for the OP. If you're a car enthusiast, looking for a drivers car, and willing to spend substantially more money, more often, into a car (aka not an asset), then get the BMW. If the BMW is something you're passionate about, it will be worth whatever cost. If a car to you more about to getting from point A to B without a issue, go for the Honda. If you can afford the BMW but see yourself as having other financial priorities now or down the road, then the Honda would be the better choice.

Thank you for the articulate and reasoned post. The best advice a friend gave me is the Honda is an appliance and the BMW isn't. I'm researching what I can fix when maintenance is required and what will require a mechanic.

I like the Accord a lot but there are a lot of little things that bother me and that can't be easily fixed. I'm past the point of just getting from A to B. The Accord's interior materials just doesn't do it for me and the color combinations are too basic. If the interior was much nicer I think that would win me over. The Accord's AT doesn't shift as firm but I didn't put it into it's sport mode. I don't know if that would have made a difference.

I think I have to test drive both a few more times before I can make a decision.

 

[A.Goldberg]

Thank you for the articulate and reasoned post. The best advice a friend gave me is the Honda is an appliance and the BMW isn't. I'm researching what I can fix when maintenance is required and what will require a mechanic.

I like the Accord a lot but there are a lot of little things that bother me and that can't be easily fixed. I'm past the point of just getting from A to B. The Accord's interior materials just doesn't do it for me and the color combinations are too basic. If the interior was much nicer I think that would win me over. The Accord's AT doesn't shift as firm but I didn't put it into it's sport mode. I don't know if that would have made a difference.

I think I have to test drive both a few more times before I can make a decision.

Have you looked at anything else other than the BMW and Honda? You could compromise by looking at an Acura TL (FWD or AWD) or TSX (FWD). Another option would be the Lexus IS (RWD or AWD) or Infiniti G37/G37x (RWD/AWD). These options, would be a nice compromise between the economical and bland Honda and more expensive and performance inspired BMW. Obviously the Japanese options will give you better reliability and cheaper repair costs.

My exgirlfriend had a BMW 328i xdrive, I believe it was a 2012 but I know for a fact it was the 6cyl version. It wasn't a bad car but honestly I didn't find it particularly exhilarating. It handled quite well but it just seemed like it lacked power, then again I'm used to my 535i. My biggest gripe was a profound delay between stomping on the accelerator and the engine revving up, it was as if there was a solid 1-2 second delay. My cousin complains of the same issue in his 328 xdrive too but says sport mode can help alleviate it. They both have the AWD version and automatic transmissions though, so RWD with a manual is probably a different story.

Another thing to consider is its a pretty small car, especially compared to the Accord. My cousin I know realized that after buying the car. The TL and G37 will offer you a little extra room.

 

[duffman9000]

Have you looked at anything else other than the BMW and Honda? You could compromise by looking at an Acura TL (FWD or AWD) or TSX (FWD). Another option would be the Lexus IS (RWD or AWD) or Infiniti G37/G37x (RWD/AWD).

I test drove a 2012 IS 250. Anemic acceleration. The rear passenger space was somewhat cramped. I'm going to test drive a IS 350 tomorrow. I don't like how the recent Acura TL models look like. Yeah, not a fan of the beaks.

These options, would be a nice compromise between the economical and bland Honda and more expensive and performance inspired BMW. Obviously the Japanese options will give you better reliability and cheaper repair costs.

Bland. That's the perfect word when describing the inside of the Accord.

After being treated like a peon at a local BMW CPO lot, I'm looking at other cars. Audi is next.

 

[D.T.]

I test drove a 2012 IS 250. Anemic acceleration. The rear passenger space was somewhat cramped. I'm going to test drive a IS 350 tomorrow.

The 3.5L in the IS350 is pretty strong - I really dig on the IS styling for the most part, but some of these smaller coupes have almost no rear room, it's really for luggage, groceries, kids or leprechauns.

Also, see below ...

I don't like how the recent Acura TL models look like. Yeah, not a fan of the beaks.

Bland. That's the perfect word when describing the inside of the Accord.

After being treated like a peon at a local BMW CPO lot, I'm looking at other cars. Audi is next.

It's a shame some dealers don't realize a bad experience can create a chain reaction that might mean dozens of lost sales (your repeat business, family, friends, spouse, etc.)

I've got to say, the experience I had with Lexus was outstanding.

Just one example: I ordered the OEM rear wing for my GS, it came in, dropped the car off and rode into my office with a friend. The dealer calls, says there's some paint issue and they're shipping one in, next day (their expense), instead of hassling with another drop off, they drop _me_ off a car to keep till the next day. Funny thing is when I picked up the car, they still had the first wing, it looked fine, the paint blemish was underneath, not even noticeable.

 

[puma1552]

I can relate to the crappy dealer experience at BMW. Wife was shopping new minis on their indoor showroom on a Saturday morning with me, dressed nice, we were literally in the middle of the show room getting in and out of cars etc. for about 45 minutes, not one single person asked us if we needed help.

We just walked out and went to VW right after that and bought the new red '12 Beetle she had previously had her eye on a few days earlier. I then bought a VW of my own six months after that as well. Too bad so sad BMW. It's nice to not get hassled by dealers, but it's nice to be politely asked if you need any help or have any questions - my wife had an exact car in mind from the site that she wanted to look at and test drive.

 

[senseless]

I'll throw in another vote for a used Infinity G37. I test drove one a few years ago and was impressed with the driving experience. The new model that replaced it is not the same.