Coupes: 2015 Honda Accord V6 or 2012 BMW 328i

[duffman9000]

IIRC, one review called the nose of the late model Acura's the beak. Hilarious. I like the body of the older Acuras, but I've never driven one.

It's a shame some dealers don't realize a bad experience can create a chain reaction that might mean dozens of lost sales (your repeat business, family, friends, spouse, etc.)

A friend that has a BMW tells me I have to get past the jerks selling used cars. These same jerks want to sell you a new car instead. Another friend had to buy from one particular dealer due to the options. He still wishes a fiery death to his sales demon. Unless I see an offer I can't refuse I'm done with BMW.

I've got to say, the experience I had with Lexus was outstanding.

Just one example: I ordered the OEM rear wing for my GS, it came in, dropped the car off and rode into my office with a friend. The dealer calls, says there's some paint issue and they're shipping one in, next day (their expense), instead of hassling with another drop off, they drop _me_ off a car to keep till the next day. Funny thing is when I picked up the car, they still had the first wing, it looked fine, the paint blemish was underneath, not even noticeable.

I haven't discounted Lexus yet. I prefer to buy a used car that is at least 2 years old due to depreciation, but the most recent IS that I like is the 2014. However, the price is more than what I want to pay. Too soon to get a deal.

I drove my friends older Audi A4 today. Not a fan of CVT in general, but I could live with it. The interior isn't the greatest but it's much more in line to what I want than the Accord. The Accord is out.

 

[puma1552]

I drove my friends older Audi A4 today. Not a fan of CVT in general, but I could live with it. The interior isn't the greatest but it's much more in line to what I want than the Accord. The Accord is out.

dont waste money on a crappy FWD CVT Audi, that's for badge whores, it's not a real audi without Quattro, so get a tiptronic quattro. Completely different car.

Again, it's about optioning the car correctly.

 

[turtle777]

I drove my friends older Audi A4 today. Not a fan of CVT in general, but I could live with it. The interior isn't the greatest but it's much more in line to what I want than the Accord. The Accord is out.

Take a look at the new A3. Fantastic car, awesome price.

Only go for the A4 of you often have taller people sitting in the back.

-t

 

[A.Goldberg]

I test drove a 2012 IS 250. Anemic acceleration. The rear passenger space was somewhat cramped. I'm going to test drive a IS 350 tomorrow. I don't like how the recent Acura TL models look like. Yeah, not a fan of the beaks.



Bland. That's the perfect word when describing the inside of the Accord.

After being treated like a peon at a local BMW CPO lot, I'm looking at other cars. Audi is next.

My mom recently traded in her 2009 Lexus ES350. I was quite impressed with the quietness, smoothness, and power of the engine for the size of the car, so I imagine it will be even better in the smaller IS. My only gripe is the sound- I suppose its tuned to be quiet but at high revs its just this uninspiring muted clattering moan. Her ES350 had ~130,000 miles a not a single repair outside of basic wear and tear maintenance (brake, tires, filter and fluid changes). No electrical issues, no mechanical issues, no significant interior wear.

Yeah, it's too bad about Acura's. Great cars, but most dislike the styling.

Sorry to hear about your BMW experience. Is there another dealer you could check out? Unfortunately this isn't the first time I've read about BMW dealers being pompous.

In my own experience I remember bringing my dad's BMW in for service when I was 20-21 in Connecticut and the dealership staff treating me with a 'what are you doing here, stupid college kid probably here just to touch the cars, ask to test drive an M3, and waste my time' kind of expression. The service manager also commented on my last name stating "It's incredible how many Jews drive German cars, you wouldn't think that would be the case". I think he was inept at trying to make conversation but what he said could easily be perceived as rude. Last week when I took my BMW in for service in Boston near Boston University and I was treated very pleasantly and respectfully by the staff. I'm 25.5 now and look a bit older.

----------

A friend that has a BMW tells me I have to get past the jerks selling used cars. These same jerks want to sell you a new car instead. Another friend had to buy from one particular dealer due to the options. He still wishes a fiery death to his sales demon. Unless I see an offer I can't refuse I'm done with BMW.

I don't obviously don't sell cars but I thought they'd want to sell you a used because there is a greater profit margin. I suppose there would be more profit on a brand new 7-series than a used 2012 328i but a 2015 vs. 2012 3-series might be in favor of the used... idk just a thought.

If you don't like the dealer, don't buy from them. Don't give the satisfaction of a earning a commission to some jack@$$ salesman. Find another dealer to buy from if you like the car. A lot of times the service department environment is very different from the sales.

I drove my friends older Audi A4 today. Not a fan of CVT in general, but I could live with it. The interior isn't the greatest but it's much more in line to what I want than the Accord. The Accord is out.

I loath CVT's. Why are you so opposed to Quattro?

 

[duffman9000]

@A.Goldberg

I'm not opposed to the Quattro. I think since the weather doesn't really change where I live I don't feel like I need AWD. I'm saying that having not driven one yet. But the thought of a CVT just screams hell no. Tomorrow I'm going to test drive an IS 350 and A4 Quattro. Both cars are 2012 and are in the same auto center.

I'm running out of BMW dealers in my area. At one place I felt they thought I was part of the maintenance staff. At another place I was told "you don't want to test drive this car because I wouldn't feel the difference" when I asked about test driving a car with a M sport package (suspension IIRC). It was high mileage, but I wanted to see how a high mileage (+80K) car felt like. After being told no I told the sales rep to give me back my license. He didn't attempt to speak to me again.

I'm done looking for a BMW. I'm more likely to dress down the dealer than to have a civil conversation. It's a shame because I really like the coupe. But I will not be disrespected when I'm buying a car lol. Speaking of which, I gave a Honda dealer an honest chance to win me over. The rep lost me the moment he insulted my other possible car choices. He knew it too. He tried to back track, but the damage was done.

 

[iLog.Genius]

Haha. Regardless of brand, all dealerships are asses. I rarely have a great experience, only good ones but more times than none, they've been pretty bad.

There was one trip to a BMW dealership, I had no intention of buying - I was just there to pick up some parts. While I was waiting, I was looking at a M6 Gran Coupe. First the receptionist greeted me and offered me refreshments and asked if I needed any help. I told her I was just waiting for some parts I had ordered. She said it was cool but got a sales rep anyway. The sales rep that came was completely awesome. Knowing full well I wasn't buying, he was completely cool and treated me like I was a prospective customer.

Figures, when I'm not interested in buying, I get the best service. When I'm looking, I get nothing. haha

 

[monokakata]

I'm sorry that you're done looking for a BMW. I've had excellent experiences with BMW dealers (except for one, in Glendale CA) but that's like people arguing for or against disk drive manufacturers because of failures.

I just wanted to jump in to say that, with regret, I'm putting my 2007 328 xit (sport package, all the options) up for sale next week. The reason is that I no longer have any place to enjoy driving it. When I lived on the continent, it was all good. We drove all around the country, putting nearly 160K miles on it in 8 years. We spent days on 2 lane roads in the west. The car had only 2 serious repairs (water pump and ventilation fan), but oil has just started weeping from the valve cover gasket and the dealer estimated $1000 to fix that. No.

I love that car, but on the Big Island there's really no place to wring it out for more than a few minutes. Near where I live there's a great stretch of two-lane road, but it's no more than 4 miles long and is part of the main cross-island road so there's traffic, including 18 wheelers. I was on it yesterday and had no fun at all. On the other side of the mountain there's an even better stretch but it too is short (5 miles) and has traffic.

So the car's potential is wasted, and finally it's starting to cost us money.

The way we live we have to have true 4WD, so the Bimmer's going on craigslist, as is our banged-up 2004 4Runner. We've ordered a new 4Runner Trail Premium, which is going to be the family car.

Anyway, this is all by way of saying that when people ask "what kind of driver are you," that's an important question -- but another good question is "what kind of driving can you do where you live?"

 

[seeforyourself]

I need help deciding. The Honda gets much better fuel economy and has more power. The BMW is much more fun to drive and feels much better inside the cabin. Thoughts, my people?

Take it from someone who drives a 2011 BMW 328xi.


Don't get me wrong it IS a fun car to drive. It has tight steering and feels like it hugs the road. I'm assuming you want the coupe (Which is what we have). It feels like a convertible with the wide side windows and the big moonroof.

Here is the bad now: The car is WAAAAAAAAY to bumpy! If you are living in the north the potholes will make the ride uncomfortable. We have had 3 major problems since we bought the car new; Speakers will have a really annoying buzzing sound that won't go away until you lock the car and walk away from it then have to come back and start the car (really weird glitch that the dealer cant seem to figure out).

Also the automatic transmission occasionally slips and also the dealer can't seem to find the problem (We might get a new transmission since its happening more frequently).

And lastly the windows sometimes will be open on the car when we go up to it (Yes the car is off) it just started happening and we will be bringing it into the dealer again shortly.


___


This car is driven mostly when it is snowing and in the summer. I normally drive a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis which has never had any problems but normal wear and tear. This is normally my familys summer car but my car is RWD so I take this car out a lot more during the winter.

I'd honestly go with a american car. The chrysler 200 or 300 is REALLY NICE. And so is the Ford Fusion. Most american cars are cheap to fix and have a softer suspesnion.

But out of those two cars i'd go with the Honda. The BMW has too many problems considering it has 20K miles. My friends older BMW which was a 325xi also had many electrical problems. So go with a honda!

 

[D.T.]

The way we live we have to have true 4WD, so the Bimmer's going on craigslist, as is our banged-up 2004 4Runner. We've ordered a new 4Runner Trail Premium, which is going to be the family car.

Sweet, post some pics in the main car thread of your 5th Gen T4R when you get it Our '08 is the "family car" too, beach, light offroad, towing, major trips, love it - the 4Runner is a +great+ SUV (with "real" truck underpinnings). Just hit 75K miles and we just did our first set of tires! Also upgrading/upgraded the suspension, added some spacers, did the major timing belt service (including tensioners and water pump), so if we hang onto it, I bet it'll do another 75K without any issues (though I doubt we'll keep it that long, assuming another 6-7 years to run up another 75K).

Anyway, this is all by way of saying that when people ask "what kind of driver are you," that's an important question -- but another good question is "what kind of driving can you do where you live?"

That was exactly the point of my comment way back on page one: a slightly livelier driving dynamic has more "value" if the combination of driver and road come together, and even then, so many people buy cars with a better driving dynamic, but harsher suspension, etc., and don't utilize it! (with the execution of the "canyon carvers" in this thread ... )

 

[monokakata]

Sweet, post some pics in the main car thread of your 5th Gen T4R when you get it

Yeah, I'll have some pictures in about 4 months, when is when it should turn up here. Not exactly rapid delivery. True, I think the BMW took 3 months to arrive in western NY.

We were strongly tempted by the 4Runner TRD but it's not available in Hawai'i. Here, the Toyota dealers aren't part of Toyota NA. They deal directly with Toyota Japan, and they control what comes in. For some reason, there's a ban on the TRD. I was told it was to protect Lexus sales, but that makes no sense to me. The TRD competes with the Lexus SUV? I don't get it.

 

[A.Goldberg]

This car is driven mostly when it is snowing and in the summer. I normally drive a 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis which has never had any problems but normal wear and tear. This is normally my familys summer car but my car is RWD so I take this car out a lot more during the winter.

Your over use of the pronoun "this" causes issues in reading this paragraph.

I'd honestly go with a american car. The chrysler 200 or 300 is REALLY NICE. And so is the Ford Fusion. Most american cars are cheap to fix and have a softer suspesnion.

The OP is looking for a car that is designed to be a drivers car at this point. Not soft suspension vehicle. He has ruled out the Honda.

Again, I think the OP should check out an Infiniti G37. I've heard excellent things about their dealers. A relative of mine bought one a few years back and the dealer on their first visit handed her a set of keys and told them to try the car out for 24 hours. She ended up buying the car and said this particular dealer was great. Apparently they offer free carwashes whenever you want as long as you own the car. Another person I know bought 2 FX35's because they've loved the car and had no problems with the dealer (different than case 1).

I obviously can't say that all Infiniti dealers are good but typically new to the game luxury companies- Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, (dare I say Hyundai with the Genesis and Equus), go above and beyond to attract new buyers. I think the attitude some BMW, Mercedes, etc dealers express is just an image they want to portray.

The last I checked the G35/37/Q40 is also based off the Nissan Skyline which is a real sports car. It's not just an Altima with a V6 and leather. I've driven the last generation G35 and the G37x (essentially the same car, just two different engines, x=awd) and they're fantastic. The interior quality isn't quite as the germans but it's up there- likely not something you'd be disappointed with.

 

[MICHAELSD]

It's excitement vs the mundane. The BMW will put a smile on your face more often than the Accord.

 

[duffman9000]

The OP is looking for a car that is designed to be a drivers car at this point. Not soft suspension vehicle. He has ruled out the Honda.

I test drove the IS 350 in Luxury Plus trim. It makes the 250 look so bad. It has much more punch. Sitting in the driver seat I think is cozy. The rear passenger space is pretty bad. I'm 5'8 and I would not enjoy being in the back seat. It's too cramped, especially when compared to the A4. The 350 does sound nice and has more than enough pop to make me happy. I wish it had aluminum trim instead of plastic but friends have told me that the interior will look and feel new for a long time.

The A4 Quattro was loaded with options including sport suspension. It was much more firm than the 350. I saw a 350 for sale about a month ago in F-sport trim (formerly leased) that I couldn't bring myself to test drive due to the color (black and that's a deal breaker for me). I test drove the A4 on a nice road and the freeway. I should drive it on a rougher road to make sure my kidney stones don't begin acting up. Rear passenger room in the A4 is much better. I expect cramped passenger space in a coupe, not a sedan.

It's a tough choice. I can't bad mouth the 350 but I prefer the A4. It's a different ride and I were older I'd probably prefer the 350. The A4's cabin is much more inline with my sensibilities. I went out looking for a A4 in Premium Plus trim, but I only found one in a color I liked and it includes sport suspension along with a lot of other options that I don't oppose. I think I'm going with the A4. I liked driving it and I'm worn down from this process.

After driving these cars, the Accord would have been so boring. I think I considered it only because of the reliability. Have fun while you're young. Playing it safe is for old age.

 

[lowendlinux]

There's not even a contest between those two. The BMW wins period.

 

[quagmire]

Has the OP looking into sedans now? If so I would look into the Cadillac ATS as well( try to find a good deal on the 3.6). I'm 5'8 and I am comfortable in the backseat of my dads ATS( just don't get one with a sunroof it does kill headroom a bit). The ATS is such a fun driving car. While the N54 in my dads old E90 gave a thrilling experience with its low end power, the ATS's chassis puts a bigger smile on my face.

The ATS is a good car( not perfect, but its still my choice in the segment) and sadly very underrated considering the image problem Cadillac has, but since you're looking into used that will be to your advantage( meaning you can probably get a decently equipped one, maybe even with MRC for a decent price).

I would just avoid the 2.0T engine. It is coarse sounding above 5000 RPM and loses steam above that RPM as well. The 3.6 is a much better engine, will have lower maintenance costs due to being naturally aspirated, and can run on regular( I don't care what the manufacture says about how a turbocharged engine can run on regular, have to put premium in for the best performance and reduce chances of damage).

 

[D.T.]

I test drove the IS 350 in Luxury Plus trim. It makes the 250 look so bad. It has much more punch. Sitting in the driver seat I think is cozy. The rear passenger space is pretty bad. I'm 5'8 and I would not enjoy being in the back seat. It's too cramped, especially when compared to the A4. The 350 does sound nice and has more than enough pop to make me happy. I wish it had aluminum trim instead of plastic but friends have told me that the interior will look and feel new for a long time.

The A4 Quattro was loaded with options including sport suspension. It was much more firm than the 350. I saw a 350 for sale about a month ago in F-sport trim (formerly leased) that I couldn't bring myself to test drive due to the color (black and that's a deal breaker for me). I test drove the A4 on a nice road and the freeway. I should drive it on a rougher road to make sure my kidney stones don't begin acting up. Rear passenger room in the A4 is much better. I expect cramped passenger space in a coupe, not a sedan.

It's a tough choice. I can't bad mouth the 350 but I prefer the A4. It's a different ride and I were older I'd probably prefer the 350. The A4's cabin is much more inline with my sensibilities. I went out looking for a A4 in Premium Plus trim, but I only found one in a color I liked and it includes sport suspension along with a lot of other options that I don't oppose. I think I'm going with the A4. I liked driving it and I'm worn down from this process.

After driving these cars, the Accord would have been so boring. I think I considered it only because of the reliability. Have fun while you're young. Playing it safe is for old age.

Yeah, the rear seat space in modern coupes is like I posted previously, for _very_ small people/kids, or a _very_ short trip with adults, and probably not for anyone with a decent amount of height. When we migrated the wife from a Z3 (with "none" back room), to a 330Ci, the idea was to have a little more flexibility, but the back seats were like you described. @quagmire above is right, you add those two extra doors, you add significant rear seat space as well as a way to actually get +into+ the rear seats without injuring yourself (or requiring the driver to get out first). Modern performance sedans don't give much up to a coupe.

Again, I'm a fan of Lexus in terms of overall owner experience, I think the IS cars are terrific looking, the 350 particularly with the F-Sport is a fun drive. An aftermarket exhaust really gives it nice growl A local surf acquaintance has one setup with a few bolt ons, some gorgeous aftermarket wheels and it's something I'd personally own.

I agree on that last line, and heck, some of us, umm, "older folks" will probably be driving fun cars, that don't make sense to unthusiasts until we can't drive any longer I'm shopping some cars that add a back seat as well, but that still doesn't mean it might not have a rip snortin' 600+ HP V8

 

[duffman9000]

Again, I'm a fan of Lexus in terms of overall owner experience, I think the IS cars are terrific looking, the 350 particularly with the F-Sport is a fun drive. An aftermarket exhaust really gives it nice growl A local surf acquaintance has one setup with a few bolt ons, some gorgeous aftermarket wheels and it's something I'd personally own.

Yes, yes and yes.
The stock version sounds really nice. I like the styling of the recent versions more than the 2012 version I'm looking at. The driver seat is just a little too cozy for my taste and I would feel tortured sitting in the rear. Lexus improved the space in the recent models, but it's outside of what I want to spend. Actually, I would have loved to drive the 250's replacement (IIRC turbo version maybe in the 2016 model year). I think in about 5-6 years, when I'm ready for another car, the Lexus turbo will be common. Unfortunately, my current car has to go. I've been shopping for about 2 months and the car can sense it's about to be put down.

 

[duffman9000]

I'm done shopping. In the end, my wife decided lol. I've been so irritated with BMW that I wrote an email to the customer relations department. I probably won't get a reply, but I hope someone will read it and learn that word of mouth is important.

 

[Kariya]

I'm done shopping. In the end, my wife decided lol. I've been so irritated with BMW that I wrote an email to the customer relations department. I probably won't get a reply, but I hope someone will read it and learn that word of mouth is important.

The final decision was...?

 

[duffman9000]

The final decision was...?

A4 Quattro. It has more options than I think we needed, but we couldn't find one locally that we wanted. It was a leased car. I'm happy with it. It's not perfect, but I doubt I'd find a car that I'd be 100% happy with. We liked the Lexus, but we came to the same conclusion separately: it's a car our parents would drive. My wife didn't care about the lack of rear passenger space in the Lexus. She thought who cares about the passengers. The used Lexus didn't have a modern interior, that was pretty much the deal breaker.

 

[D.T.]

A4 Quattro. It has more options than I think we needed, but we couldn't find one locally that we wanted. It was a leased car. I'm happy with it. It's not perfect, but I doubt I'd find a car that I'd be 100% happy with.

Nice! Now the purchasing headache is behind you, it's just about enjoying your new ride

 

[Kariya]

A4 Quattro. It has more options than I think we needed, but we couldn't find one locally that we wanted. It was a leased car. I'm happy with it. It's not perfect, but I doubt I'd find a car that I'd be 100% happy with. We liked the Lexus, but we came to the same conclusion separately: it's a car our parents would drive. My wife didn't care about the lack of rear passenger space in the Lexus. She thought who cares about the passengers. The used Lexus didn't have a modern interior, that was pretty much the deal breaker.

I have a friend (audi nut) who would say you chose wisely

Enjoy the car.

 

[A.Goldberg]

A4 Quattro. It has more options than I think we needed, but we couldn't find one locally that we wanted. It was a leased car. I'm happy with it. It's not perfect, but I doubt I'd find a car that I'd be 100% happy with. We liked the Lexus, but we came to the same conclusion separately: it's a car our parents would drive. My wife didn't care about the lack of rear passenger space in the Lexus. She thought who cares about the passengers. The used Lexus didn't have a modern interior, that was pretty much the deal breaker.

Congrats on the A4! Although you loose a little fuel economy with the Quattro and you're in an area with no snow/ice, the extra grip does come in handy even if the roads are wet (or if you decided to drive through some mud- you never know). It'll help your resale out too. My mother in 2009 looked at the IS, ES, and GS. She liked the IS the most but the IS is just too small in the back- borderline nonexistent.

Now all you need to do is post some pictures and open that checkbook and prewrite a check to the dealer for your first repair! What kind of warranty did you get with it? Is it the 2.0T?

 

[turtle777]

A4 Quattro.

Nice. Congrats.

I did the same thing. Bought a 3 year old off-lease A4 with 2 years CPO.
Great car for the winter. With proper winter tires, the A4 just blows past anything in snow. I love taking it for a ride when everyone else in their FWD or RWD all-season tires is spinning their wheels

-t

 

[duffman9000]

Thanks everyone for the well wishes.

I'm still exhausted from this whole process. I think driving home last night I finally began to enjoy the car. I've never experienced the joy of auto-dimming mirrors.

If you have high intensity lights and you drive behind an old car, you've temporarily blinded the person in front of you. Understand that the person in front of you has to drive slow until the effect wears off. I hated when new cars used to blind me. Now I understand now why people tolerate the high intensity beams: auto dimming mirrors.