Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip

[iBlue]

That is ridiculous. I feel for these people.

I actually thought that you were perfectly within your legal right to subtract the forced gratuity amount from your bill. If not it should be your legal right to do so.

I think restaurants that automatically do this are scum. I don't care for the assumption. I'll tip as I see fit. The only time I find it justifiable is when they add it on for large parties.

This system actually works against them sometimes. I would have tipped more but since they've taken it upon themselves to force an amount on me then fine, that's what you're getting.

The tip should reflect the service. End of.

 

[robbieduncan]

I actually thought that you were perfectly within your legal right to subtract the forced gratuity amount from your bill. If not it should be your legal right to do so.

It is in the UK. Of course serving staff have to be paid minimum wage here even if tips are £0.00.

 

[Abstract]

Wirelessly posted (Nokia 5800 Tube XpressMusic : Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.4; U; Series60/5.0 Nokia5800d-1/21.0.101; Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413)

That acronym would only work if you were asked to "tep" the server...



Steve.

I know. I was thinking about telling that to him too, but he would have gotten angry. It was a nice try though. Ensure Insure same diff.

Both 'ensure' and 'insure' are correct, so the acronym is just fine. The one thst doesn't work here is 'assure', which essentially means the same thing as ensure and insure, but is used in a different situation.


Aaaaanyway, tipping sucks. Every time I go back to North America, I have a hard time adjusting. All I really want is for a waiter to bring me the food that I order, and fill up my drink when I wave one down. I don't need the fake smiles and the fake eagerness to make me happy. Tipping may get me this, but it's something I could do without if it means I don't need to feel obligated to pay for that extra smile.

I know that waiters don't get paid much, but it's clearly possible to get adequate service in a place where waiters also get paid fairly. I don't even need to tip where I live, and yet I do at times.

Remember, if a waiter does a good job, I'll REMEMBER to tip him/her.

 

[scottness]

I hate mandatory gratuity. Why not just raise the prices if the extra cash is that necessary? It's deceiving at best.

Waiters should get gratuity based on how awesome they wait on me. Period.

 

[iBlue]

It is in the UK. Of course serving staff have to be paid minimum wage here even if tips are £0.00.

Ah, good. Thanks.

It's absurd that wait staff in the US can be paid under minimum wage. MINIMUM WAGE! (I get it, tips are counted in the equation, blah blah, I don't think they should be.)

Aaaaanyway, tipping sucks. Every time I go back to North America, I have a hard time adjusting. All I really want is for a waiter to bring me the food that I order, and fill up my drink when I wave one down. I don't need the fake smiles and the fake eagerness to make me happy. Tipping may get me this, but it's something I could do without if it means I don't need to feel obligated to pay for that extra smile.

There are good and bad aspects to both, of course. The British are not known to be good tippers but then service is seldom anywhere near what you typically get in the US. When my husband (who is british) and I went to Los Angeles to visit my family, we went to several restaurants. He remarked how friendly and helpful everyone was. You don't tend to get that in grumpy old London. Often times when I'm eating out here I feel like I am really putting my waiter out just getting them to do the bare minimum of their jobs. In the US wait staff tend to go out of their way to make sure you're happy. (I'm speaking very generally in both scenarios.) It's a relief in some respects to have people who are eager to please you but you do have the expectation of a decent tip at the end. When it really chaps your ass is when you had bad service and someone is still demanding a tip. That's a part of american culture I don't miss.

Pros and cons.

 

[Bennieboy©]

christ, i'm glad we dont have this in england,

it's always been my knowledge that tips are given for good service,
thats very backhanded on the part of the restaurant, if staff are dependant on tips to make up for low pay then the restaurant owners and management should be strung up.

in my mind thats almost equal to theft, why should you pay for something not received :S

 

[robbieduncan]

It's absurd that wait staff in the US can be paid under minimum wage. MINIMUM WAGE! (I get it, tips are counted in the equation, blah blah, I don't think they should be.)

There is/has been a problem here that some places (including some of the big, reputable chains) have been using the tips as part of the wage instead of passing them on to staff on-top. If there are not enough tips they have to pay the agreed wage still.

Some examples here...

 

[Sun Baked]

If the owner admitted to be willing to comp the food, he should have been willing to give them an 18% discount ... and paid for the crappy service tip out of the register.

Hopefully these people are smart, and file against the pub when the case is dismissed.

If you are going to call the cops because you are an idiot and failed to fire a terrible employee, you deserve the bad press.

 

[iBlue]

There is/has been a problem here that some places (including some of the big, reputable chains) have been using the tips as part of the wage instead of passing them on to staff on-top. If there are not enough tips they have to pay the agreed wage still.

Some examples here...

That's terrible! Unfortunately it also explains why that Pizza Express waiter had such a fit when a group of us went and left not one penny of tip because of the absolutely ABYSMAL service we received. Remember that?

 

[Lorenz0]

We once setled a bar tab after a few rounds of poor service and average cocktails. Honestly, the painfully fashionable bargirl looked at me like I'd just **** on her head for having the audacity to ask for my change.

Our credit aint crunched yet, so when we go out we really do behave like classic weekend millionairres - the tip was there for the taking... stoopid girl.

 

[robbieduncan]

Remember that?

Yes! I also think that a complaint was made and an offer of a free pizza made to the Demi who complained.

Which reminds me I did similar with the one at Canary Wharf. Have an email offering me and the ex-girlfriend a free meal there to make up. Not much use now is it!

 

[iBlue]

Yes! I also think that a complaint was made and an offer of a free pizza made to the Demi who complained.

Which reminds me I did similar with the one at Canary Wharf. Have an email offering me and the ex-girlfriend a free meal there to make up. Not much use now is it!

Yup, she emailed at the table with the trusty iPhone and received a £20 voucher in the post. We should have all complained!

I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding someone else to go with you.

 

[robbieduncan]

I'm sure you won't have any trouble finding someone else to go with you.

I've heard ladies love it if you take them somewhere specifically because it's free

 

[iBlue]

I've heard ladies love it if you take them somewhere specifically because it's free

I do! I'm not prissy, I think free is great! Could always take a guy or a work mate or something too. Must have Pizza Express make good on the offer.

 

[yg17]

This system actually works against them sometimes. I would have tipped more but since they've taken it upon themselves to force an amount on me then fine, that's what you're getting.

+1

A few restaurants my coworkers and I go to sometimes for lunch do the automatic 18% gratuity. They're just screwing themselves, because I'll usually tip at least 20%, especially on a small bill, like under $10. But if they decide to stick their own 18% gratuity on there, that's what they get, and nothing more.

 

[Aeolius]

While I understand automatically adding the gratuity for large parties (I have 7 kids), what bothers me is when that disclaimer is printed in extremely small letters on the menu then there is a space to write in a tip on the bill. I'm sure they count on getting double-tipped more often than not.

 

[chrono1081]

Omg this is rediculous!

I actually had something similar happen to me. A waitress brought out only one bill and we thought that was the ONLY bill. I didn't get to inspect it cause a friend grabbed it and paid for it and we all left.

Well, 3 weeks later I get a call on my cell phone from my old workplace and they asked if I was at Uno's and skipped out on a bill. Here the waitresses remembered my work shirt (I always go there) and were frantically trying to get ahold of me to pay this bill because their GM was threatening to call the police on me.

I was glad the waitresses looked out for me I called and paid the bill and explained the situation.

EDIT: ALSO, this is 110% the restaurants fault. If its part of the bill, include it in the bill don't list it as a "Gratuity" because EVERYONE knows that a gratuity is a tip and comes with good service.

 

[savoirfaire]

Well, at least the restaurant accomplished its obvious goal: the next time these customers come in for dinner, they will think twice before skipping out on the tip!

 

[Keebler]

the pub manager/owner should have let the issue go b/c he's about to get some negative publicity (I would think).

Instead of letting $16 go, the pub name will be no doubt be made public and ppl will be very wary of bad service there. not saying it's all bad service, but you know how the majority of us humans tend to react (ie. no benefit of the doubt - or very little).

 

[alphaod]

There is/has been a problem here that some places (including some of the big, reputable chains) have been using the tips as part of the wage instead of passing them on to staff on-top. If there are not enough tips they have to pay the agreed wage still.

Not sure about the UK, but that's pretty much normal here in the US. The law is restaurants can offer any hourly wage as long as with tips the wage is higher than minimal wage. If the hourly wage plus tips does not exceed minimal wage, then the restaurant must make up for the difference.

A number of the restaurants I go to (at least the ones that I practically grew up going to) pay their waiters I think $5/hour or something (basically below minimum wage), but with tips that ends up like $20/hour to $25/hour… which is pretty good. I'm not surprised of that of course before they have excellent service every time and we always tip like 20%.

Well, at least the restaurant accomplished its obvious goal: the next time these customers come in for dinner, they will think twice before skipping out on the tip!

Or people might just come next time and not leave just out of spite?

I know few folks like that… not a good thing, but such people exist.

I actually had something similar happen to me. A waitress brought out only one bill and we thought that was the ONLY bill. I didn't get to inspect it cause a friend grabbed it and paid for it and we all left.

Well, 3 weeks later I get a call on my cell phone from my old workplace and they asked if I was at Uno's and skipped out on a bill. Here the waitresses remembered my work shirt (I always go there) and were frantically trying to get ahold of me to pay this bill because their GM was threatening to call the police on me.

I was glad the waitresses looked out for me I called and paid the bill and explained the situation.

I recall a few weeks ago our family went out on a nice dinner. After eating and paying by card we left. All was good until a few hours later, the manager called because he couldn't find the credit card slip and was worried if we took it with us. I'm guessing he was afraid we would dispute it or something… like a proper restaurant manager he spoke with his boss and told us we didn't have to worry. We didn't dispute it of course and next time we went we made sure they got the slip before we left. If they reported us to the police, it probably would have gotten ugly. Instead they did the proper thing and took responsibility.

While I understand automatically adding the gratuity for large parties (I have 7 kids), what bothers me is when that disclaimer is printed in extremely small letters on the menu then there is a space to write in a tip on the bill. I'm sure they count on getting double-tipped more often than not.

What I find more disturbing is often they will add the gratuity and then tax the gratuity (which is illegal); then I have to explain to the manager who will probably get confused and then I end up paying for it.

 

[foidulus]

Because Burger King is required to pay minimum wage where a employee working for tips only has to be paid $2.65 per hour.

"far below minimum wage"

Yes, but because they get tips they end up outearning the rest of the staff by a factor of at least 2. I used to work in the back of a restaurant and the waitresses made a killing doing what I consider to be a much easier job, that is part of the reason I tend to leave paltry tips. They are already making more than the people who actually do the work cooking the food and cleaning up etc, why should I give them any more?

</Mr. Pink>

 

[mscriv]

It's my understanding that lots of restaurants are now pooling tips and they are evenly devided amongst all staff related to service. This way the people you are talking about get a share of the gratuity because their efforts are a part of service experience as well.

 

[Plutonius]

Most Restaurants I go to now have a manditory 18% tip for parties of four or more. Many people don't know this and end up double tipping.

 

[jwt]

I live in the US, and have been to 7 foreign countries, in all of which no tip was required and the service was unquestionably better. Tipping sucks. It's a f***ing rip-off.

 

[notjustjay]

It's my understanding that lots of restaurants are now pooling tips and they are evenly devided amongst all staff related to service. This way the people you are talking about get a share of the gratuity because their efforts are a part of service experience as well.

I would not have a problem with this, if the workers were fairly compensated to begin with.

That is to say, if they simply showed up and did their job, they got paid at least minimum wage. Then we could give tips based on service -- subpar service gets no tip, excellent service earns an excellent bonus. The nice thing in this theoretical perfect world is that you would get immediate feedback of job performance -- on a night you make tons of tips, you can pat yourself on the back, and on the night you make no tips, you can ask yourself, "OK, what did I do wrong that my customers weren't satisfied?" Naturally you have a financial incentive to do better.

The problem right now is that wait staff wages are so low because they are expected to earn a tip (that is, we are expected to give one), therefore it is all but mandatory to leave a tip. Now, if they're going to get it anyway, why not just build the 15-18% into their base wage in the first place.

As it stands the "feedback system" is broken. If I get bad service and don't leave the 15-18% tip that the wait staff expect they are "entitled" to, what message do you think gets sent? "Gee, I must have done something wrong to piss him off, I wonder how I could improve my service next time?"? Or "That guy left no tip! What a cheapskate and a loser!"?

Instead of incentive, it has become entitlement. The system is broken.