Court Rules Apple Can Be Sued for Monopolizing iPhone App Market

[miniyou64]

This is like suing Microsoft because Xbox wont play Nintendo games.

Monopolies only exist because of the government: the monopoly of monopolies.

There's no App Store monopoly.

 

[kimmen]

This is like forceing Coca Cola to allow anyone to sell their Cheap-Cola inside the Coca Cola bottle!

 

[Kabeyun]

Can I sue a restaurant for only letting me use their tables to eat the food they sell ?

A better analogy would be suing a restaurant for your not being able to buy their chef's food at different restaurant.

 

[bingeciren]

However you look at it this suit has done us all a terrible disservice. It has inadvertently opened the door up for some of the dumbest analogies.

As the thread gets longer, it becomes worse. Some of the analogies reach new heights.

 

[ReneR]

You do know that iOS updates are free cause Apple is getting that "take" to fund iOS development (and my guess MacOS as well)? Part of the reason why Google doesn't like people not using the Play Store or Google Search (in particular in China) cause they lose out ads revenue which is what Google make their money from.

And users do have the option of buying and installing apps from other sources, just jailbreak their phones and this is legal!

And you mentioned antivirus? Seriously? Why don't you just switch to Android, they're doing great there.

Your post is a total mess. Apple never said AppStore sales finance iOS updates.
Actual common understanding is the Apple premium price is financing iOS updates.

That Apple finances iOS updates thru third party sales would also be a rather strange if not questionable setup.
Some here argue that the 30% take finances the AppStore infrastructure and bandwidth. But honestly that fraction is so small that it totals huge amouts in Apple's profits.

PS: you mention jailbeark: can you point me to a jailbreak for each iOS version available on the day of the release of each individual iOS update?

 

[Paul Dawkins]

It also prevents developers from veering outside what Apple let them do.

If you want alternative apps, you have to jailbreak your iPhone to install them.

Why can't I choose an iPhone AND choose where I buy my apps from?

Bacause it doesn't benefit anyone except few geeks and has some serious implications.

 

[Abazigal]

What I find disturbing is some people defending having a locked ecosystem forcefully broken open when there are other open platforms available already.

Opening up a closed ecosystem can cause all sorts of untold problems for privacy, data security and reliability - exactly the issues which are rife on Android.

This.

You buy an Apple product, you agree to abide by the rules of the Apple ecosystem. Don't like it? Go to another platform like Android. Don't buy Apple.

 

[Vjosullivan]

"Censor" apps? That's like saying you should be allowed to sell things under the Wal-Mart banner in a competing space because the real stores don't carry adult magazines.

No it isn't. It's like Wal-Mart preventing you from buying anything from anyone else to use on your own phone.

Want to buy an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it.
Want to sell an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it.
Want to sell your own apps on your own web site? Can't do it.
Want to offer thirty days free trial? Can't do it.
Want to offer a paid-for upgrade? Can't do it.

 

[ReneR]

I get that position.

So what about Apple's argument of making a better product ecosystem because it is "closed"?

(where any developer can code for, but that's a separate argument.)

What is the problem to offer a macOS like "do you want to run the App from developer XYZ"?

I have no problem of Porsche offering their superior car service, but if one wants, you can still bring or tinker on it at a third party or race track tuner?

 

[alex0002]

What I find disturbing is some people defending having a locked ecosystem forcefully broken open when there are other open platforms available already.

Opening up a closed ecosystem can cause all sorts of untold problems for privacy, data security and reliability - exactly the issues which are rife on Android.

So when the Apple car comes along, you'll want them to restrict it to only use Apple electricity from the Apple recharging station, for safety reasons?

 

[ReneR]

And its been that way since day one yet you still purchased iDevices knowing it was this way. Perhaps don't buy Apple products IF this bothers you. Not like they just changed to doing it this way recently. So all of a sudden its a problem?

How is that different from 2000 with Microsoft Office monopoly? If you don like it don't buy and use it in your company? Well, have fun when every document you got was a Microsoft Office document, ... Actually the problem still exist today, and you tell us to "just buy something else"?

There are many reasons why someone ends up with an iDevice, be it some software, some workflow, whatever. And after paying good loads of $$$ they can not even use it like it is their own.

 

[bingeciren]

Bacause it doesn't benefit anyone except few geeks and has some serious implications.

That makes all macOS users few geeks faced with serious implications, because they can install programs from anywhere they want.

 

[Jsameds]

So when the Apple car comes along, you'll want them to restrict it to only use Apple electricity from the Apple recharging station, for safety reasons?

Poor analogy since iPhone's use electricity too and you can use any source. This is not about a power source, it's about system security, privacy and safety.

Would you like to share the road with someone who owns a self driving car with some dodgy software installed that they obtained from an unknown 3rd party?

 

[ReneR]

You want Apple to open up their device for other stores so you can have porn apps?

Why don't you just use Safari like normal people...

I already posted on this thread's page 2 or so that you can use Safari for p0rn, so why not allow it in an AppStore adult section? It could even be hidden by default and you would need to choose it from the category editor or so and require apple id login for age confirmation.

In fact how is that not unfair censorship if some super professional studio wants to offer a paid app subscription service but can not because Apple is not allowing it into their only App distribution channel?

 

[Jsameds]

No it isn't. It's like Wal-Mart preventing you from buying anything from anyone else to use on your own phone.

Want to buy an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it.
Want to sell an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it.
Want to sell your own apps on your own web site? Can't do it.
Want to offer thirty days free trial? Can't do it.
Want to offer a paid-for upgrade? Can't do it.

Want to buy an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to sell an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to sell your own apps on your own web site? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to offer thirty days free trial? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to offer a paid-for upgrade? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android and an iPhone.

 

[alex0002]

Poor analogy since iPhone's use electricity too and you can use any source. This is not about a power source, it's about system security, privacy and safety.

But why is app safety on an iphone more important than electrical safety in an electric car?
Or liquid fuel safety in a gasoline/diesel car?
Or tyre safety on any vehicle?

No one is forcing people to go to third party stores (or fuel stations), but why not allow them to have the choice like we have with macOS, windows and android?

 

[ReneR]

You have choices, pick another place that sells burgers. Go to Android or another OS. You are either wanting the same burger but from a different place, for cheaper or you are wanting the McDonalds to allow any any random vendor to come sell their burgers in McDonalds for whatever price they want.

stop this stupid burger analogy - iPhones are not burger, unless you eat one every other day!

iPhones are powerful computers, certainly more powerful than an Apple II, i386, heck, more powerful than a dual core Athlon from 200x. With even more RAM and graphics power.

Imagine you could only run on vendor's vetted software on whatever PC you got. You would certainly not be choose and defend that. In fact if you have a Mac I would bet you have at least one, if not more like ten Apps installed outside of the App Store.
[doublepost=1484307522][/doublepost]

Want to buy an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to sell an app that Apple doesn't approve of? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to sell your own apps on your own web site? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to offer thirty days free trial? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android.
Want to offer a paid-for upgrade? Can't do it. Yes you can, on an Android and an iPhone.

If you prefer and use Android, can you please stop your Android advertisement here in our beloved iOS thread?!

 

[Jsameds]

But why is app safety on an iphone more important than electrical safety in an electric car?
Or liquid fuel safety in a gasoline/diesel car?
Or tyre safety on any vehicle?

No one is forcing people to go to third party stores (or fuel stations), but why not allow them to have the choice like we have with macOS, windows and android?

All those things you mentioned already have regulatory standards that have to be adhered to by law anyway. They're already covered.
[doublepost=1484307821][/doublepost]

If you prefer and use Android, can you please stop your Android advertisement here in our beloved iOS thread?!

Apple user since 1990 here, it's pretty clear from my comment history that I'm an Apple fan. I hate android - but that is not the point.

All the things that were mentioned can be done on a different platform, yet people on here are for some reason pretending that iOS is the one and only option developers and end users have, which is clearly not the case.

If iOS was THE platform, then yes, there'd be a monopoly, but that is not the case. There are multiple options available.

 

[ReneR]

Bacause it doesn't benefit anyone except few geeks and has some serious implications.

it is actually quite shortsighted to say "it doesn't benefit anyone except a few geeks". It could likely be the next portable personal computer revolution. E.g. allowing to developer software on an iPad and thousand other professional use cases like this could actually skyrock iPad sales.

What is the problem to have a big button: "Allow software from identified developers" and "Allow software from everyone", in the general iOS settings? No serious implication for any joe user until the click it. Hint: It is not like Apple does not have this scheme elsewhere, …

 

[b0fh666]

ios is the only mobile platform that allows the apps to not be written in JAVA, so there you have it.

android is not an option until they get their act together.

 

[alex0002]

All those things you mentioned already have regulatory standards that have to be adhered to by law anyway. They're already covered.

So you want regulation to protect those people who will have to accept some sort of warning about the dangers of third party apps?

If the risks of third party apps concern you, then don't install them.

 

[Jsameds]

If you prefer and use Android, can you please stop your Android advertisement here in our beloved iOS thread?!

What is the problem to have a big button: "Allow software from identified developers" and "Allow software from everyone", in the general iOS settings? No serious implication for any joe user until the click it. Hint: It is not like Apple does not have this scheme elsewhere, …

Why do you want iOS prised open when there is an open platform already available?

Wouldn't the sensible option be to just use Android, if an open system is what you want?

 

[ReneR]

All those things you mentioned already have regulatory standards that have to be adhered to by law anyway. They're already covered.
[doublepost=1484307821][/doublepost]

Apple user since 1990 here, it's pretty clear from my comment history that I'm an Apple fan. I hate android - but that is not the point.

All the things that were mentioned can be done on a different platform, yet people on here are for some reason pretending that iOS is the one and only option developers and end users have, which is clearly not the case.

If iOS was THE platform, then yes, there'd be a monopoly, but that is not the case. There are multiple options available.

Bell was still ruled to be a monopoly and split up even though I guess it was possible to get another telephone line somehow, ...

Who said it is one and the only option? Users spent the most premium money on iDevices, yet they can not freely use them as they wish.

Also I have a 1st gen iPhone and 1st gen iPad. Why is that I can no longer actually use them because Apple is not allowing builds with older SDKs to be uploaded in the App Store.

I could use the 1st gen iPad for what? two years max? And since then the expensive investment is collecting dust because even I as a developer can not load something on it anymore, ...

Due to the locked boot loader I can not even load my Linux (http://t2-project.org/) on it unless I spent years or so of reversing the crypto.

You find this vendor lock-in right?

If this would be done a decade ago by Microsoft on Windows Mac users would have been laughing about this.
But now the fanboy are even defending such vendor lock-in / censorship.

Btw. Want to load the NY Times app in China? Yeah it's gone now, ... Can't sideload, ...

 

[Jsameds]

So you want regulation to protect those people who will have to accept some sort of warning about the dangers of third party apps?

If the risks of third party apps concern you, then don't install them.

You are missing the big picture. It's not about me or you or even everyone in this thread. It's about security of the platform as a whole.

When I recommend iOS to someone I do so knowing that it's the easiest and safest option because without jumping though some technical hoops there's pretty much zero that you can do mess it up accidentally or deliberately.

Once you open the gates and something goes wrong, the reputation of the platform as a safe, private and secure OS is destroyed.

I don't get it. If it's open that you want get an Android.

 

[ReneR]

Why do you want iOS prised open when there is an open platform already available?

Wouldn't the sensible option be to just use Android, if an open system is what you want?

First of all until Apple removed the headphone jack I liked the hardware. Beside I even develop software for it.
Maybe I do not like the UI design of Android?

Why should I not use iDevices? I can still dislike this AppStore distribution channel lockin and censorship.

And btw. maybe we want to make the world a better place, and not that things become more locked and censored with each year to come?

There was a time where Mac was for:

“Here's to the crazy ones. The misfits. The rebels. The troublemakers. The round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules. And they have no respect for the status quo. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them. About the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world, are the ones who do.”