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Court Rules Apple Can Be Sued for Monopolizing iPhone App Market

ReneR said:
How is that different from 2000 with Microsoft Office monopoly? If you don like it don't buy and use it in your company? Well, have fun when every document you got was a Microsoft Office document, ... Actually the problem still exist today, and you tell us to "just buy something else"?

There are many reasons why someone ends up with an iDevice, be it some software, some workflow, whatever. And after paying good loads of $$$ they can not even use it like it is their own.
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How do you not see the major difference: Microsoft software is on 95% of computers worldwide.
Apple's iOS software is on what, at most 20% of phones worldwide?

Microsoft had a monopoly and misused their power.

Apple does not have a monopoly. Yes, the have a series of very popular phones, but their overall worldwide market share is not even 40% of the global market. Something which the Android crows have cawed now for years.
 
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FriendlyMackle said:
How do you not see the major difference: Microsoft software is on 95% of computers worldwide.
Apple's iOS software is on what, at most 20% of phones worldwide?

Microsoft had a monopoly and misused their power.

Apple does not have a monopoly. Yes, the have a series of very popular phones, but their overall worldwide market share is not even 40% of the global market. Something which the Android crows have cawed now for years.
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If you only look into some markets, like US or UK the iOS share is certainly much higher. Especially if actual used devices are taken into account, and not the cheap defect and burner phones thrown away quickly.
 
CE3 said:
There are only 2 million apps in the App Store :( I have no ownership or control over how I use my device :(

#ApplePrisoner
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You know what the worst thing is about some Apple fans?

The way they protest anyone else having a choice.

You don't want to use another store? Fine, don't use one.

But don't try to make that choice for anyone else.
 
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kdarling said:
At least they're accurate. The ones about running non-iOS apps, or about Apple being "forced" to do anything... other than create a setting to allow downloading from other sources... are NOT.



Right, the ones that Apple as Big Brother allows. Which includes tons of junk, just because Apple wanted to be able to claim so many available.

Now consider the existence of other stores, who could even concentrate on only providing fewer highly selected apps. Consumer and developers win because of better wares and easier discovery.

Alternative stores could also offer trial periods, incentives, etc. And even better payouts for developers.
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I would say "junk" is hyperbole, what is "junk" to you may not be to me.

Anyway this is only a lawsuit can proceed, it may be tossed out of court or apple may be broken up like AT&T. Who knows?
 
Definition of a monopoly: "the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service".

Apple operates a monopoloy on the supply of iOS App's because they exclusively control the supply of those App's. You can only buy iOS App's through Apple's AppStore.

People are making stupid and erroneous comparisons above. This case is about the distribution and sale of iOS App's. Nothing to do with the hardware. Saying you can buy an Android phone instead completely misunderstands this case.
 
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Was Trump behind this because this make zero sense. Clearly decided by an 80 year old judge still using a flip phone.
 
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kdarling said:
You know what the worst thing is about some self-centered Apple fans?

The way they protest anyone else having a choice.

You don't want to use another store? Fine, don't use one. But don't get in my way.
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There is absolutely nothing stopping you from going to the competition, that there is proof enough there is no monopoly. And the comment about apple fans is hyperbole. This is not about choice, this is about a company, and it could be your company(which I want to emphasis this is not apple but your company), operating within the law, being successful and then through lawsuits being forced to change, when in reality, you should just vote with your dollars.

The great thing about this, is the deep pockets apple has and this will either be tossed or drag on for years to come with only the lawyers making out. You and I will go back to earth before this gets settled.
 
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FriendlyMackle said:
How do you not see the major difference: Microsoft software is on 95% of computers worldwide.
Apple's iOS software is on what, at most 20% of phones worldwide?

Microsoft had a monopoly and misused their power.

Apple does not have a monopoly. Yes, the have a series of very popular phones, but their overall worldwide market share is not even 40% of the global market. Something which the Android crows have cawed now for years.
Click to expand...

Microsoft does not exclusively control the distribution and sale of software for Windows devices. If they did, that would be deemed a monopoly.
 
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ReneR said:
If you only look into some markets, like US or UK the iOS share is certainly much higher. Especially if actual used devices are taken into account, and not the cheap defect and burner phones thrown away quickly.
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All of these figures are from a Kantar Worldpanel report published in July 2016. I can't find a more recent update. Even so, I would not expect much more than a few percentage point changes in any direction overall in these markets.

Apple's iOS marketshare is as follows in these large markets:
  • 40.5% of the U.S. market,
  • 44% of the U.K. market
  • 51.7% of Japan's market
  • 21.5% of the EU5 market (U.K., Germany, France, Italy, Spain)
    • Germany: 16.5% of the market
    • Spain: 8.3% of the market
    • Italy, and France market share is not included in the report, but I recall that Italy is under 15%, and France in the mid-30's
  • 15.9% of China's market
Android marketshare is 57.9% of the U.S. market, and globally roughly 75% marketshare.

Where is the monopoly?
 
kdarling said:
You know what the worst thing is about some Apple fans?

The way they protest anyone else having a choice.

You don't want to use another store? Fine, don't use one.

But don't try to make that choice for anyone else.
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You're free to lump me into the blind fanboy category, but that doesn't make it true. And I'm not trying to make choices for anyone. This was the choice Apple made, and the app distribution system they designed for their mobile devices. This isn't a desktop platform or the Mac App Store we're talking about here. If I felt limited by the current setup and selection of apps in iOS, I wouldn't still be using iPhones and iPads.

I've used Google Play and Android devices and found their selection of (and the ability to find) high quality applications that catered to my needs and interests (design, photography, music, etc.) to be far more limited. And you know what else was limiting? That Google Play would force me to grant developers of even the dumbest apps permissions to access to my microphone, camera, email, and phone contacts before I even downloaded it! Since you're the one who mentioned Big Brother - what do you call that?
 
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Buy another phone. Problem solved, lawyers don't get money. Anyone see a problem there? Dirty commie government made you buy an iPhone?
 
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I7guy said:
There is absolutely nothing stopping you from going to the competition, that there is proof enough there is no monopoly.
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You and a lot of others seem unable to understand what this is about.

The accusation of monopoly is not about smartphone choice in general.

It's about the monopoly Apple has over app store choice on a stock iOS device.
 
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Apple needs a good legal defense, looks like the courts are out of touch with the reality and are mis-applying the laws.

Winni said:
Now imagine a world where Windows applications could only be bought from Microsoft.
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I don't have to imagine, such a thing exists, it's called Xbox.

kdarling said:
Now consider the existence of other stores, who could even concentrate on only providing fewer highly selected apps. Consumer and developers win because of better wares and easier discovery.

Alternative stores could also offer trial periods, incentives, etc. And even better payouts for developers.
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If Apple is out of loop to approve the app, I for one would not be interested in such a marketplace. I trust Apple to vet the app before available for purchase.

There are no strong argument made in the threads showing the this is a monopoly, along with analogs in other marketplaces showing precedence. The hardware and software platform belong to Apple, the marketplace is created by Apple, the development is a free for all, how is that a monopoly?
 
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FriendlyMackle said:
All of these figures are from a Kantar Worldpanel report published in July 2016. I can't find a more recent update. Even so, I would not expect much more than a few percentage point changes in any direction overall in these markets.

Apple's iOS marketshare is as follows in these large markets:
  • 40.5% of the U.S. market,
  • 44% of the U.K. market
...
Where is the monopoly?
Click to expand...

Shaun said:
Definition of a monopoly: "the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service".

Apple operates a monopoloy on the supply of iOS App's because they exclusively control the supply of those App's. You can only buy iOS App's through Apple's AppStore.

People are making stupid and erroneous comparisons above. This case is about the distribution and sale of iOS App's. Nothing to do with the hardware. Saying you can buy an Android phone instead completely misunderstands this case.
Click to expand...

I hereby join this argument that Apple has 100% exclusive control of the iOS software market.

And even as a software developer we are frustrated by the App discovery process, the Xcode and SDK build and upload mess (there are weeks where we spent 50% of our time fighting with random Xcode and iTunes connect errors, issues and whatnot) and we can not directly sell to customers without avoiding Apple censorship and 30% profit take.

And don't come with your they have expensive Xcode tools. With pleasure many would use alternatives, because the latest Xcode sucks majorly, hard to get work done with. Plain GCC and some proper editor would be most helpful instead of constantly getting in the way like Xcode does.
 
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MikhailT said:
That's not illegal and monopolies are also not illegal in US, it is the anti-competitive behaviors that are illegal and these folks must convince the jury or judge that Apple intentionally blocked developers from competing against each other at their store. The laws do not prohibit owners from controlling their own stores, Apple has 100% ownership of their platform and are not obligated to open it up to anyone.

Unless the customers can prove that Apple does not permit developers from completing with each other, they're not going to win this one.

If they do, every single company in the US will be joining Apple on the appeal because it will break every company's rights to control their platforms.

Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo will be compel to open their platforms to alternative stores. Good luck with that.
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Not true you are not restricted to only installing Windows programs from the Windows Store.

The issue is that with IOS you have to get your apps from Apple's App Store without jailbeaking your device.

With Windows and Android you are free to install what you want from wherever you want.

You also do not have to pay Apple 30%. If you did not have to pay Apple 30% the app prices could be less.
 
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mr.steevo said:
I thought the purpose of selling within the App Store was to protect iOS users from malicious software.

I agree -- clearly any idiot can file a court case. Unfortunately, too many courts accept these bogus cases and the lawyers are the only ones who really benefit.

I am pretty confident that Apple's lawyers will make sure the court understands the security and integrity benefits not just focus on cost.

I for one buy apps ONLY from Apple ... I much prefer the Curated security controls they impose.
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MacRumors said:



appstore.png
A U.S. Appeals Court today ruled that App Store customers can move forward with a lawsuit claiming Apple created an illegal app monopoly because it did not allow users to purchase iPhone apps outside of the App Store, reports Reuters.

The decision reverses a 2013 ruling that dismissed the lawsuit, originally filed in 2012. The case, Pepper et al v. Apple Inc., alleges that by not letting users purchase apps from third-party sources, there was no price competition, leading to higher app prices.

When the lawsuit was originally filed, Apple requested that it be dismissed because developers, not Apple, set prices for App Store apps. Apple simply provides the platform developers use to sell apps to customers.

According to today's ruling, because iPhone users purchase the apps directly from Apple, they have the right to file a lawsuit against the company.

An attorney for the plaintiffs in the case told Reuters that the aim of the lawsuit is to allow people to shop for iPhone apps wherever they want, an outcome that's unlikely due to security implications.The Appeals Court ruling does not address the specific monopoly allegations levied at Apple and pertains only to whether or not Apple can be sued for this issue.

Article Link: Court Rules Apple Can be Sued for Monopolizing iPhone App Market
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I guess that means that Apple can sue Amazon for refusing to sell the Apple TV, and customers can sue Ford for not letting them buy Motorcraft parts from the Chevrolet Dealership.
 
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I7guy said:
this is about a company, operating within the law, being successful and then through lawsuits being forced to change, when in reality, you should just vote with your dollars.
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(Emphasis added.)

Here's the problem with your assertion: The plaintiffs don't believe that Apple is operating within the law, specfically, within the limits of anti-trust law. Neither the district court nor the Court of Appeals have decided (or even begun to consider) that question. And it's easy to plead (See Fed. R. Civ. P. 8) the argument that Apple does operate an illegal monopoly over access to apps for iOS. (That's why it is not a "frivolous" lawsuit.)

Now, barring other action, the plaintiffs will have an opportunity to conduct discovery and move forward with their case, where the question of whether Apple is operating a monopoly on access to apps for iOS can be decided. A case like this will take years to fully decide, so it is unlikely it will have any significant effect on Apple or the plaintiffs.

This is also a great example of how very few people have any understanding of how the US legal system works.
 
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