Court Rules Apple Can Be Sued for Monopolizing iPhone App Market

[nzgeorge]

Good.

Imagine if you could only buy aftermarket parts and accessories from Ford. It's hard to imagine, because such a situation has been illegal for many years.

EDIT:

Imagine you have a F150 truck. It's shiny and new and powerful and won a bunch of awards. You could buy a Toyota but it's not what you want.

Now imagine you want to carry a load of bricks. Ford sells a third party 'brick loading tray' at their dealership for $300 that you must use to carry bricks. You can't buy that elsewhere.

Now imagine that a month later you want to carry a large boulder for some reason. Ford does not sell a 'boulder tray', and you're forbidden to buy accessories from third parties or weld your own. "Go buy a Toyota" you say. Well I already own a F150...

 

[Le Big Mac]

Just to be clear, the court does not have any opinion on whether Apple is violating the antitrust laws.

It held only that the plaintiffs had standing to sue Apple on their antitrust claims, which is barely an antitrust question. Apple still can make all the arguments why the app store isn't an antitrust violation.

 

[Rogifan]

??? You did not really understand the previous analogies.

If your grocery store does not sell your example gold I can go to your next example gold store.

Can I go with my iPhone to the next virtual AppStore?

Ah, ic, that is where your example falls flat, .... bummer.

No but you're not forced to own an iPhone.
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While I agree about spyware, such malware often slipped thru Apple's review fingers to start with. And it also takes an uneducated user to install, ..

But aside form this: who gives apple the right to censor good p0rn for us? If some interested adult wants to consume that why not? it is not that he can not google it in Safari always, ... *headshake*

Um, anyone can open up a web browser on an iOS device and view all the porn they want.

 

[code-m]

Don't counter-argue?

To add to this, I just went to a known Mac website and while the page was loading it triggered a script and launched the App Store for no reason. Didn't even go to the webpages app. So what happens if there are multiple stores on the iPhone to download apps? I go to a known site and all of a sudden a script launches an App Store and downloads malicious software on my phone. Yeah, that can happen. What would stop companies from doing this?

Are you telling me that malicious apps have not made it past the AppStore vetting process. iOS has been jail-broken for how many years, Apple keeps patching the hole, yet another is exploited. You do not live in a bubble friend, even with the present wall-garden there are exploits. If you want a 100% proof risk-free computing device, think about giving up on computers or any other smart device as there are always exploits.

You paid for a device with your hard-earned money that a company thought would be fair for a consumer to pay for their product. Why is this company limiting use on a mobile OS and device and not on a desktop OS and device. Food for thought, you are being restricted. If you like the wall-garden then stay in it as you do not want to explore possibilities outside or risk (reminds me of that infamous Apple ad in the 80's). However for those who don't mind the risk and are willing to explore outside the garden we should be provided the opportunity. At this point you are being chained friend and you only argument is to migrate to another OS. For real, I like iOS and MacOS, I want the option to install my own apps or apps from elsewhere without restrictions.

Apple is contradicting it's move, we allow third-party apps in MacOS with sandboxing while we cannot do the same with iOS. Don't be jaded.

 

[JM]

If Ford gave me the option to buy better gas but didn't require it then I would agree with the practice. I don't have any special affinity toward lawsuits; but I do have an affinity against antitrust behavior.

But Ford makes the best gas in this scenario. Is your position that Ford should offer other options (even if they are inferior or dangerous to the health of the car)? ...just want to understand.

 

[nzgeorge]

Let's sue Tesla for Monopolizing their charging stations.
And let's sue Apple for not lettings us have our Hackintosh freely.

You are aware that you can charge your Tesla anywhere you want?

I can only get third-party apps through Apple's store.

 

[dbri306]

Is this really so hard to understand? There are absolutely NO alternatives to buying IOS(!!!!) apps other than Apple's own app store. With the large market that Apple owns, this IS a problem for customers because there is no competition.

The comparison with IOS vs Android has abolutely nothing to do with it.

Now imagine a world where Windows applications could only be bought from Microsoft. You would be screaming havoc -- even though there are the Mac and Linux. But the fact that there are other operating systems doesn't really help the majority of Windows users, does it?

This lawsuit against Apple is long overdue.

And which company these customers are going to sue after downloading malware infested apps that empty their bank account? Wanna take the risk - jailbreak your phone and use Cynthia at your own risk

 

[Mascots]

They vet any App uploaded. What they do not like will be rejected, sooner than later.

Also you can not do everyone, many system tweaking things where booted quickly. Eg. the initial 3rd party night mode. And then even copied by Apple as system feature.

Also you can not use any third party JIT compiler. So that all web browser need to use Apple's JaveScript and usually WebView, virtually making all iOS browser only an UI facade,

This is absolutely NOTHING about running whatever you want on your device or tweaking it however you want.

Apple can legally lock down iOS however they see fit - this is not about monopolizing functionality or usage, it's about manipulating prices through the platform they deliver apps. Which they don't do because the prices are controlled by developers.

 

[Rogifan]

Why should I as a developer be forced to give apple 30% of my sales?

Why should I as a user be limited to what I load on my device?

Why should anyone buy something else if they like the glossy rounded rectangle most?

Every smart phone is a glossy rounded rectangle. If you don't like what Apple offers by something else.

 

[nzgeorge]

No, the correct analogy would be the gasoline you're allowed to buy is not from Ford, but from a gigantic number of gasoline brands on Ford's stores. With a great amount of competition between brands.

And Ford would still control that market, and would still be up against competition law.

 

[JM]

optimized for their environmental law defeat device you meant?

Eh what?

 

[code-m]

This is ridiculous.

Not quite, provide the choice. Use it if you want, don't use it if you prefer not. Sandbox third-party installed iOS apps, that may actually open and invite more interest in iOS. Sure some may use to try and exploit it, however its nothing that has not been seen on other desktop or mobile OS platforms.

If you do not want to install a Third-Party app outside the AppStore, then there is no risk to you. Stay in the confines of the wall-garden.

Yes, we want freedom of speech. However we, Do Not Want freedom of choice. Seems confusing to me yeah. No one is forcing someone at gun point to install Third-party apps outside the AppStore. Stay safe friend.

 

[Stella]

It's called personal responsibility. No one is sueing anyone. Well, maybe except the US where personal responsibility doesn't exist. LOL

And which company these customers are going to sue after downloading malware infested apps that empty their bank account? Wanna take the risk - jailbreak your phone and use Cynthia at your own risk

 

[SuperCachetes]

A more correct analogy would be buying a Ford automobile and then only allowed to buy gasoline from Ford. I agree with this ruling.

If that gas from Ford was optimized for Ford leading to better gas mileage and lower emissions, and was sold at market value.... then you would not agree because you support the lawsuit.

The problem with this analogy (at least in the country where I live) is that there isn't a world full of opportunists ready to maliciously sell colored water as gasoline at a so-called discount price - without regard for what happens to my car. I'm less concerned about "optimized performance" than I am being taken advantage of and/or having my data stolen.

Fast forward one year...

Lawsuit waged against Apple because apps purchased on other sites compromised their iPhones! It's Apple's fault!

It should come as no surprise that we are living in a world of predominately stupid people, but at least we have more data to back up that claim now. Actually the data is growing by the day...

Exactly.

 

[Mascots]

Not quite, provide the choice. Use it if you want, don't use it if you prefer not. Sandbox their-party installed iOS apps, that may actually open and invite more interest in iOS. Sure some may use to try and exploit it, however its nothing that has not been seen on other desktop or mobile OS platforms.

If you do not want to install a Third-Party app outside the AppStore, then there is no risk to you. Stay in the confines of the wall-garden.

Yes, we want freedom of speech. However we, Do Not Want freedom of choice. Seems confusing to me yeah. No one is forcing someone at gun point to install Third-party apps outside the AppStore. Stay safe friend.

Apple could allow apps outside the App Store and not sandbox their own apps if this was successful.

It has nothing to do about that.

 

[code-m]

It's called personal responsibility. No one is sueing anyone. Well, maybe except the US where personal responsibility doesn't exist. LOL

Nanny Nation.

 

[BootsWalking]

But Ford makes the best gas in this scenario. Is your position that Ford should offer other options (even if they are inferior or dangerous to the health of the car)? ...just want to understand.

My position is that Ford is free to offer any gasoline they want but can't inhibit people from buying their gasoline elsewhere.

 

[JoCoWashington]

Good.

Imagine if you could only buy aftermarket parts and accessories from Ford. It's hard to imagine, because such a situation has been illegal for many years.

However, Ford would allow other aftermarket parts and accessories from others to have them sell as well. There are 100+ weather apps in the app store. None of which all belong to the same developer. Most are free. Some are $1.99. Some are $.99.

 

[code-m]

Apple could allow apps outside the App Store and not sandbox their own apps if this was successful.

It has nothing to do about that.

I never found majority of the apps in the AppStore expensive, some people might depends on income I guess and opinion. I do however feel freedom of choice to install Third-Party should be offered. As mentioned I develop and test in-house developed app, and the limitations via DevTools for a week is ridiculous. If I want to offer this app for free why am I paying a Dev fee. If I was placing it for sale then I understand. Does it cost Apple money to vet these apps sure, however it is a problem their created if you want to sell via them. That is why a third-party option with a disclaimer of risk as is presently presented when installing via MacOS is suitable.

 

[ReneR]

Why should Apple be forced to pay for all the bandwidth used when people either download your app or simply browse the reviews and description of it? Why should Apple go to the effort required to keep your app indexed in a search database it maintains so it comes up when people put in appropriate key words? How much more does it cost Apple to maintain the whole shopping cart portion of its online App Store that allows people to buy your app using iTunes gift cards and all that?

I just don't get the point of the complaints about the 30% cut or $99 per year fee? If you're remotely serious about developing anything for iOS that you want others to easily find in searches and download, it's pretty equivalent to what you'd spend to market your software any other way.

As a user, you're not REALLY limited as to what you can legally load onto the device. Apple simply has no interest in making that easy or convenient to do. It's in the business of providing (as I said before) a whole "environment". Buying something from Apple means you're buying into that whole "experience" - including the support they provide at their retail stores and a product that works the way THEY envisioned it would work. Jailbreaking is legal, if you have the knowledge to do it -- but by going that far outside what Apple encourages you to do with the device, it's obvious you're on your own at that point. (Nobody in their right mind would research a jailbreak for the iPhone, install special software from 3rd. party web pages to use it, and do all of the extra steps needed to make actual use of it, and NOT have a clue they weren't just doing something Apple supported.)

The bandwidth per app us peanuts. I would with please pay for it along our regular website. We did not ask Apple to host that for us, ...

And an index and search. Come on, this a just kB of text per App. Google is doing it for free for the whole web (not to mention wikipedia or the internet archive).

The users are limited. With Apple's tight security they can not load anting else. It takes thousands of hours of security researcher time to find a new security hole for a new iOS jailbreak. Nothing any joe user can do in their garage without investing thousands of hours of learning to code and security code breaking.

And what experience is that you believe? the totally locked in experience, ... like jail?

I have been with Apple since 200x. I had iBooks, a Cube and G5 and such. Back int he day the earpiece was open, standard conforming systems. With Unix, Posix, OpenFirmware, HTML, PDF and all such nice universal standards like that, ..!
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Eh what?

Just a latest news reference. nevermind ;-)

 

[CanadianGuy]

Related reading:

https://medium.com/@DaveWoodX/its-time-to-transition-from-the-app-store-to-the-app-mall-a1136505b13

 

[code-m]

However, Ford would allow other aftermarket parts and accessories from others to have them sell as well. There are 100+ weather apps in the app store. None of which all belong to the same developer. Most are free. Some are $1.99. Some are $.99.

What you are witnessing my friend is fear from the naysayers to adapt and evolve. Believing that exploits did not exist previously or at present is similar to someone wanting to live in the dark, rather than welcome opportunity. There will always be people who will exploit others, while the majority just want to innovate. I thought that is what Apple does these days "innovate," though it just seems like all talk and no show.

What happened to Apple, I used to be wowed by its hardware and software. Lately I am looking outwards. Its a sad, sad day and more to come.

 

[Nevaborn]

The US legal system is a joke. Sorry but looking from the outside there seems no rhyme nor reason to the American legal system other than if you can make money from it you can take someone to court.

Apple has the App Store giving a safe and se ire place to purchase apps. They do not set the price the app creators do.

Apple does not force you to use the App Store to use your phone. Everyone is well aware of the way Apple devices and the App Store works, i.e it being a closed system.

This is beyond pathetic and I sincerely hope Apple appeals this rubbish. As others say what is next people taking Apple to court as they can't load Android on their iPhone ?

You buy an iPhone you know what you are getting if you don't then that is the consumers fault. Apple and every conceivable learned resource are quite open with how the ecosystem operates.

 

[ReneR]

No but you're not forced to own an iPhone.

Why do you want to argue away that I purchased an iPhone. I or another users now has one. Why are we not allowed to use it how we like?

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Um, anyone can open up a web browser on an iOS device and view all the porn they want.

Is that not exactly what I wrote?

And why are there no nice and shiny adults _Apps_ aloud when it is possible thru the open web anyways?

Nanynation?

 

[Cosmosent]

The legal argument is totally screwed-up ... the primary issue is NOT one of price, but one of App Discovery ... Apple completely controls App Discovery ... thus, unique & innovative apps have basically ZERO chance of ever becoming discovered (by the masses) inside the App Store, as Apple sticks with what they know best, Emojis, Stickers and GIFs, as well as User Interface "filter" apps on top of Core Image ... anything outside of that won't get recommended, unless / until it gains traction and/or attention first on Android.

Ideally, Facebook would step up to the plate & create an alternative to Apple's iOS App Store, which is riddled with (ranking & review) problems.

I'm NOT in favor of either Google or Amazon doing so.