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Craig Federighi Acknowledges Confusion Around Apple Child Safety Features and Explains New Details About Safeguards

djcraze said:
I want to get this straight. You all would prefer if Apple scanned all your photos on their servers? If they ended up adding end to end encryption for iCloud Photos, that would 100% be a back door that Apple had to use for your photos.
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Apple has already been scanning user photos in the Cloud for CSAM. It has been happening for several years. How do you think Apple has been filing CSAM reports already? It has been doing it through photos and email etc. The scanning in and of itself on the cloud does not create a secret back door.
 
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dialogos said:
My apologies it's a double post of my message , I was trying to reply to the message included in the end

This is a PR nightmare for Apple - full or arrogance. I guess the more we read about how great and exceptional this unique system is , among other pompous words they use , the more we (the users) will be annoyed by this arrogance. At this point they need to be more down to earth.

I would like to know how this new system aligns with their ads all those years. For example what happens on your iphone stays on your iphone. If Apple has the courage I would ask Mr Federighi to compare the message of that ad to what they announced today and to release a new PR statement mentioning that there is no contradiction between those two messages. The message of old Apple to the message the new Apple is sending today.

I would also like a straight answer from Apple if other critical topics such as children that they are searching for ways to suicide are important to apple. I assume this is a critical and equally important problem to child pornography. Are they willing to start scanning such messages to protect children?

And I would really like from Mr Federighi a straight answer to why Apple stepped back to China and Russia. They are claiming now that they won't step back to any external pressure, but let's start by explaining historical facts. Why did they stepped back in the past?

Final thought. If Apple wants to be honest and regain some trust, ..if possible... they are defending a system that caused such a great reaction. Some people support it , most of us do NOT support it. Why aren't they releasing the code so experts will be able to evaluateit. I understand Apple has a closed system but I guess there must be a way to release at least this part of the code somehow... if they are not willing to release the code it would be also interesting to have a PR release by Apple explaining the reason..

I would have no idea.. but it would be a good starting point... I assume there must be some auditing to companies and at this corporate level catching a company lying I have no idea what it means in fees they have to pay. But anyway don't you want them to at least release the code?
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The only way you could be certain is to take the source code and compile it yourself.
 
Schismz said:
Oh for sure, me too! I totally agree with you non-suspicious new account from Apple PR (ouch, how many people got fired for this delivery? Apple is usually incredibly slick, this delivery was not dancing through the mine-field, it was more tripping and falling face-first into their own **** - I guess whatever deal they cut happened at the 13th hour, not leaving much time to kick out a coherent storyline ... I mean, their own FAQ/white paper, contradicts itself).

www.reuters.com

Exclusive: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks -sources

A backlash over Apple's move to scan U.S. customer phones and computers for child sex abuse images has grown to include employees speaking out internally, a notable turn in a company famed for its secretive culture, as well as provoking intensified protests from leading technology policy groups.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

It's all just selling dreams, and now, helping bridge the gap between where government cannot go, but big tech companies are free to do as they please; working together, like the super-friends, to help enable the correct narrative so everybody is thinking the appropriate thoughts, and all those antitrust issues become much smaller since it's a big Circle of Friendship and Enlightenment!

:apple: Big Brother on Device - Don't Think Different!

Turning the page from the All Singing, All Dancing, Crap of the World ... this seems to leave CalyxOS, GrapheneOS ... and stuff, that kinda seems to mostly work like a phone and have Signal integrated into it, c'est la'vie.

www.eff.org

Si lo construyes, ellos vendrán: Apple ha abierto la puerta trasera a una mayor vigilancia y censura en todo el mundo

UPDATE: Apple announced it will provide fully encrypted iCloud backups, meeting a longstanding demand by EFF and other privacy-focused organizations, and it has officially dropped its plans to install photo-scanning software on its devices, which would have inspected users’ private photos in...
www.eff.org www.eff.org

www.macworld.com

There's a small crack in the iPhone's foundation. How big will it get?

Apple has made some interesting and difficult choices with its CSAM policy that are worth exploring and debating.
www.macworld.com www.macworld.com
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Not a PR account but I am a former Apple employee (low level stuff mostly 😊)

I’m sorry that this policy change has created so much frustration for you. Hopefully your criticism will be acknowledged by Apple and you see the changes you’d like implemented.

All the best!

WoodpeckerBaby said:
I disabled iCloud backups because it’s not E2E encrypted. I use encrypted backups via my Mac. I expect everything on my phone to be private to hell and back. For things that I don’t expect to be private, things I don‘t mind NSA to be able to readily see, I store in paid Google Drive, where I expect that they can see everything all the time.
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That’s cool! To be honest I don’t use iOS backup at all these days. Because iCloud syncing basically stores most of the stuff I need (photos, health data, docs and such) there isn’t an awful lot I need backed up. I also quite enjoy starting fresh every now and then. I’m probably in the minority on that though 😅
 
In all the posts I have read, I have not seen a comment about the assumption of guilt. If I missed such a comment I apologise.

In addition to the "mission creep", loss of privacy, etc. I am insulted by the assumption of guilt. Apple decision to scan my phone, and indeed everyone's phone assumes we are all guilty or at the very least tempted by CSAM.

By this act, gone is the presumption of innocence.
 
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Is this coming to macOS? I can't even run my own apps on the iPhone without approval from Apple. It increasingly hard to open apps on macOS that is not approved by Apple. And now they start scanning out files for what is approved by them or who know who. The increased control by Apple is getting ridiculous, and it shows in what direction they are heading, like all big tech companies. It's time to start planning and thinking about your freedom, privacy and data before it is too late.
 
Apple is counting on the fact that most people won't know what they are doing, not that most people won't care. We need to keep pushing back. Privacy experts need to go on popular podcasts and rail against this like Fauci did at the beginning of CV19.
 
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snek said:
Is this coming to macOS? I can't even run my own apps on the iPhone without approval from Apple. It increasingly hard to open apps on macOS that is not approved by Apple. And now they start scanning out files for what is approved by them or who know who. The increased control by Apple is getting ridiculous, and it shows in what direction they are heading, like all big tech companies. It's time to start planning and thinking about your freedom, privacy and data before it is too late.
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Yes, as I understand, the technology will be in the new Mac OS Monterey.
 
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My mind percolates slowly...And likely with many fallacies and misconceptions.

However, if I understand Craig's so called validation correctly, Apple is content with a user having 30 examples of CSAM on their device. Does this mean that happen has determined that 30 examples are only a mistake, or a passing fad? It would seem to me that if Apple was as serious as they claim, then a single example of such a terrible vice would be reported immediately...Or does this mean the technology is NOT as perfect as Apple claims it to be?

And for the iMessaging "feature", it would seem to me the messages are no longer end to end encrypted. If software can scan a message for "information" in this case sexually explicit content, this means that "someone" has the ability to peek into the message....

Or am I missing something?
 
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AppleTLDR said:
Not a PR account but I am a former Apple employee (low level stuff mostly 😊)

I’m sorry that this policy change has created so much frustration for you. Hopefully your criticism will be acknowledged by Apple and you see the changes you’d like implemented.

All the best!
Click to expand...
Thanks, I appreciate your candor and civility.
I have a very long relationship with Apple from multiple perspectives. It's spanned decades, I've spent $100s of K on their hardware, I've made far more than that on the stock. You can flip through my account and what I mostly post about for the past decade, which is currently the $35K piece of heavy metal sculpture sitting on my desk which is the 7,1. I find it ludicrous that moving forward it's probable that I will have to jailbreak my own property, but at least it's possible with the T2 and cannot be fixed by a firmware update.
I understand the board caved in. I'd like to believe that if Steve Jobs were still alive, he would have had enough narcism, hubris, and faith in himself, to take a stand and land upon FU, bring it, I'm the largest company on Earth. He was a person who wouldn't even put a license plate on his car, and the FBI FOIA file released on him seemed to indicate they didn't appreciate him much.
Like many, I feel violated, condescended to with nonsense and upset I'm being lied to. I like Apple Silicon, it's too bad it = Apple Surveillance and I guess it's time to shift laptops to tin-foil-hat linux for paranoids, and see how well Libreoffice is doing, since I'm sure Word and Excel won't be working on it. As for my phone, oh well, it's a phone, time to buy something else.
I trusted that I was buying my way into privacy. That basic trust has been violated and broken.
I'm not mad at Craig, I feel empathy for him, "oh hey Craig, here's an atomic bomb with a moving script, and here are the current bullet points, you're the most humanized of us, and you understand the tech, please superglue this narrative together somehow. No pressure!"
It's all very unfortunate. I will never pick up another Apple device and feel anything except paranoid and the knowledge I'm being spied on.
Bummer.
All the best, and have a good life. Looking at the stock, all is well, and it's highly probable 95%+ of the sheeple will remain oblivious and keep buying.
 
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I recommend everyone watch this clip.

It's like Daniel says that if Apple, which has previously been in favor of privacy, starts scanning all their devices with iOS 15 and new macOS, then all other companies will implement this as well.

I will not buy a new mac and iphone as I had planned.


Louis Rossman An honest conversation on Apple, hashing, & privat with Daniel Smullen.

 
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When is Apple going to reverse this? it will happen, I'd like to hope so. And someone will have to resign (or leave "early"), someone well known so it is able to recovery the PR as much as possible. The longer Apple pushes this and even implements it, the more damage will be done.

It doesn't matter what the top cats say, or how many glossy videos they produce, people think the phones are being scanned and don't understand how it works, you cannot stop that now because you messed up the explanation. The only thing you can do is cancel and withdraw the planned device scanning. Instead say you will do it on the cloud. It doesn't matter if you were already doing it, most people won't care, they will only care that you are not scanning their device. Do it now if you want Apple to retain the brand for privacy within the public eye. Or be prepared to lose customers who value it. Sure you will be ok even if that happens, but a rot will set in. It is a misstep by Apple and then you have to try and recover from it. A void is created. Why risk it, keep Apple secure and the brand for privacy while you still can!

Apple has always kept things simple, "it just works", so by default your customers will hear from this new announcement "Apple scan your photos and send them to the FBI". That is all people are going to hear, it is too late to recover it. The more you think about it, the more crazy it is that people sat in a room and thought it would be accepted. It doesn't matter how it works or it what it actually does, the message is already out there. Your competitors will use this against you for years.
 
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It looks like being hard to reverse as I suspect they might have intended to switch much more activities to end user devices. I still hope they abandon this. I see their reputation being damaged.
 
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svenning said:
If they are just scanning the hash couldn't the abuser not just modify the image slightly (like adding a pixel somewhere) and they would be clear?
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No, they are using something called NeuralHash which will find images that are (very) similar.

Think of the possibilities with a neural network looking at your data... Governments can check for images from demonstrations and protests, for otherwise innocent images that an be seen as symbols of criticism, or maybe even for text that can be seen as critical to the regime.

This tech is something that should not be developed and deployed by Apple.
 
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Freedom1 said:
HELP! Big question I even hesitate to ask. What is the problem with the M1? I and our family are long-time Apple users (over 25 devices) and feel totally betrayed by this. Speaking out against it everywhere. Even today, on the weekend, I am in the process of de-Appling our family and business as much as possible. Signing out of iCloud and resetting devices to sell. It will take a few weeks to complete though (we were all in). However, with our business, we use Macs, including a 2020 M1 MBA. I was planning on sticking with it on Catalina for a few months until we can move to Windows (which also has the software we need). Is the M1 chip part of the problem here, even signed out of iCloud? Thanks in advance.
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M1, M2 = Embedded Surveillance on the Silicon. The ultimate "design goal" in the name of "security". For M1 - Stay on Catalina and don't update.

The fundamental true is that we as consumers have to be sure whats going on behind "closed doors" and "polished fashion marketing". This is simply not possible with "walled garden model". You must be open source. And this is not some FOSS propaganda. This is the only way to ensure trust in software on which people lives depend every day.

On Apple: This decision is irreversible. I doubt that they are surprised. They have smart people around. This is planned and absence of Tim Cook from the media stage is the clear proof. They know that the "screeching voices of minority" will not affect iPhone sells. This is their model from several product cycles. They are "thinning the heard", removing rationally thinking minorities from the user base. The lack of media coverage proves that this move is well synced with some deep political agenda or future legislation which will benefit Apple. Next week nobody will talk about this.
Life goes on.

Personally, I am glad to be part of the minority. Yes, moving all business operations to Linux is a challenge, but the benefits of properly implemented FOSS operation are immense. As a big bonus I will have a long forgotten feeling when using a computer - peace of mind.
 
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scvrx said:
M1, M2 = Embedded Surveillance on the Silicon. The ultimate "design goal" in the name of "security". For M1 - Stay on Catalina and don't update.

The fundamental true is that we as consumers have to be sure whats going on behind "closed doors" and "polished fashion marketing". This is simply not possible with "walled garden model". You must be open source. And this is not some FOSS propaganda. This is the only way to ensure trust in software on which people lives depend every day.

On Apple: This decision is irreversible. I doubt that they are surprised. They have smart people around. This is planned and absence of Tim Cook from the media stage is the clear proof. They know that the "screeching voices of minority" will not affect iPhone sells. This is their model from several product cycles. They are "thinning the heard", removing rationally thinking minorities from the user base. The lack of media coverage proves that this move is well synced with some deep political agenda or future legislation which will benefit Apple. Next week nobody will talk about this.
Life goes on.

Personally, I am glad to be part of the minority. Yes, moving all business operations to Linux is a challenge, but the benefits of properly implemented FOSS operation are immense. As a big bonus I will have a long forgotten feeling when using a computer - peace of mind.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it feels like FOSS is the only way forward as governments gets more and more involved in tech companies.
Fun fact: If the iPhone is not connected to Apple servers for a while, it will lock you out from using it altogether.
 
Federighi and Apple have essentially undone decades of trust with this move. What they're admitting to is they can, and might, violate our right to privacy without our permission or knowledge. Once the software is on our phones we are vulnerable to whatever Apple, and quite possibly, the government decide to do with this new capability. Will Federighi's or Tim Cook's successor keep their promise of no snooping? What if the next Trump-thumping autocratic administration decides it wants to see what people are doing and saying on their phones? There is a nightmare of possibilities just waiting to happen here. You're doing it wrong, Apple. Stop!
 
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