Creative Sues Apple, Seeks Injunction

[timswim78]

Apple had already been shipping its own file management system on iPods for years before they even filed their "patent". How dumb is this? 🙄

It's part of business in America. Just think about the whole blackberry fiasco.

 

[LimeiBook86]

iPod shipped well before any versin of OS X with column views did.

Mac OS X 10.0 Beta had a columns view, and that was before the iPod...and of course all other Mac OS X releases had column views.

 

[Mechcozmo]

The iPod interface is based on the OS X columns view interface so if anything Creative are the ones who copied Apple.

...and OS X got that from NeXT...

Remember how the first iPods worked with OS 9 as well? No OS X required. 🙂

 

[Sedulous]

I think Apple may actually be in trouble here. Here's the patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...LL&s1=6928433.PN.&OS=PN/6928433&RS=PN/6928433

The important stuff:

What is claimed is:

1. A method of selecting at least one track from a plurality of tracks stored in a computer-readable medium of a portable media player configured to present sequentially a first, second, and third display screen on the display of the media player, the plurality of tracks accessed according to a hierarchy, the hierarchy having a plurality of categories, subcategories, and items respectively in a first, second, and third level of the hierarchy, the method comprising: selecting a category in the first display screen of the portable media player; displaying the subcategories belonging to the selected category in a listing presented in the second display screen; selecting a subcategory in the second display screen; displaying the items belonging to the selected subcategory in a listing presented in the third display screen; and accessing at least one track based on a selection made in one of the display screens.

2. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises selecting a subcategory in the second display screen and playing a plurality of tracks associated with the selected subcategory.

Shortened for brevity...

Isn't this how all file systems work? Whether you are conscious of it or not, that is how a CD player works, a hard drive, or pretty much anything. A patent has to cover "new" inventions.

 

[MacPhreak]

iPod shipped well before any versin of OS X with column views did.

OS X public beta was in 2000, and 10.0 was released in March, 2001. The iPod was released later, in October, 2001. 'Nuff said.

But that's not the deal-breaker. NeXT had column views in the early 90's, and was purchased by Apple in 1996. So, unless Creative was making MP3 players with "column" view before NeXT was around....... 🙂

 

[Peace]

Too bad for Creative.This may be their last gasp before dying a slow,painful MP3 player death.

As another member said.Creative could have done this a few years ago but chose to do so now that iPods are the main player..The judge will realize this.

 

[askegg]

IANAL, but here we go….

I think Apple may actually be in trouble here. Here's the patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...LL&s1=6928433.PN.&OS=PN/6928433&RS=PN/6928433

The important stuff:

What is claimed is:

1. A method of selecting at least one track from a plurality of tracks stored in a computer-readable medium of a portable media player configured to present sequentially a first, second, and third display screen on the display of the media player, the plurality of tracks accessed according to a hierarchy, the hierarchy having a plurality of categories, subcategories, and items respectively in a first, second, and third level of the hierarchy, the method comprising: selecting a category in the first display screen of the portable media player; displaying the subcategories belonging to the selected category in a listing presented in the second display screen; selecting a subcategory in the second display screen; displaying the items belonging to the selected subcategory in a listing presented in the third display screen; and accessing at least one track based on a selection made in one of the display screens.

OK, so they the patent specifies a portable media player that has three level deep hierarchies. Each level having multiple options, such as albums -> list of albums -> list of tracks. Some of the iPods menus do indeed have three levels; other have four, which are clearly not covered by this patent.

2. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises selecting a subcategory in the second display screen and playing a plurality of tracks associated with the selected subcategory.

Specifics on selecting an album to play any number of tracks.

3. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises selecting a subcategory and adding the tracks associated with the selected subcategory to a playlist.

While playlists can be created in iTunes, they cannot be created on the iPod. If this law suit specifically targets the iPod, then this point does not apply.

4. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises selecting an item in the third display screen and playing at least one track associated with the selected item.

Specifics on selecting a track to play.

5. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises selecting an item in the third display screen and adding at least one track associated with the selected item to a playlist.

Again, this cannot be done on the iPod – you must use iTunes to do this.

6. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track comprises one of playing or adding to a playlist at least one track associated with a selected one of the category, subcategory, and item.

So, we can select tracks, playlists, categories and subcategories?

7. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the accessing at least one track is made after the presentation of the third display screen by reverting back to one of the second and first display screens, the second display screen presented sequentially after the third display screen.

So we can go back up the hierarchy by pressing buttons.

8. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 further comprising selecting one of the items displayed in the third display screen and presenting a listing of items associated with the selected item in a fourth sequentially presented display screen.

So we can find out more details about the track, playlist, category or subcategory.

9. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the category genre is selected in the first display screen from available categories that include at least artist, album, and genre; and the subcategories listed in the second display screen comprise a listing of at least one genre type and one of the at least one genre type is selected.

So we can search the music collection by genre, which are displayed in a list.

10. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 9 further comprising displaying in the third display screen at least one album associated with the selected genre type and selecting one of the at least one albums displayed in the third display screen and presenting a listing of tracks associated with the selected album in a fourth sequentially presented display screen.

So the albums are listed in the genres.

11. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the category artist is selected in the first display screen from available categories that include at least artist, album, and genre; the subcategories listed in the second display screen comprise a listing of names of artists and a first artist name is selected; and the items displayed in the third display screen comprises at least one album associated with the first artist name.

So we can search via artist.

12. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the track is a music track, accessing at least one track comprises accessing a track title in the third display screen, and the track is played in response to the access.

So we can play a track.

13. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein receipt of the selection in the first display screen results in an automatic transition of the first display screen into the second display screen and receipt of the selection in the second display screen results in an automatic transition of the second display screen into the third display screen.

OK, so when I select something the portable music player changes its display. How can they patent a good design tenant – feedback?

14. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the category selected in the first display screen is from a top level of the hierarchy.

OK – so we can select a category that is at the top of the tree.

15. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the category selected in the first display screen is a category from a level at least one level below the top level of the hierarchy.

We can also place any (sub)category on the front page.

16. The method of selecting a track as recited in claim 1 wherein the plurality of categories comprise a list of artist names, the plurality of subcategories comprise a list of album names and the plurality of items comprise a list of track names.

The hierarchy is sorted as such: Artist->Album->Tracks.

Such broad language is used that very clearly describes the method for organizing used in ipods (even mentions playlists which I thought the Zens didn't even have). Apple will probably have to try and state that what they did was so obvious that they didn't need a patent (like patenting breathing). Hopefully this is the case like this one:

Patent 6,618,857 Method and system for installing software on a computer system.

This is a very general patent. If it were not for the words “portable media player” they could apply this to almost anything. I doubt this has got legs.

 

[Wookz]

Assuming Creative do have a case, that would mean they should then sue every other mp3 player manufacturer. Come on people we're talking about a company from an area of the world notorious for copying other products. 🙄

As much as I think Creative makes my country look bad, you shouldn't generalize my area of the world like that.

Back to topic, I hope Creative don't win this and give up the idea that they can have some share in the mp3 player market. They should just stick to their sound cards.

 

[monke]

How about a counter-sue from Apple?

Creative's interface is almost exact to the iPod's. (See Below)

There's two examples, want another, sure.

Creative named one of their MP3 players the Nano Plus.

They're suing the company they should be thanking for giving them design and product names.

 

[PlayUltimate]

Apple's lawyer speaking to the jury:

"Creative claims we have violated their hierarchial file display and selection methodology patent for an MP3 device. We only make one, so called, MP3 device and it's an iPod Shuffle and it does not have a display so it does not violate Creative's patent.

Apple is one of the world's oldest computer companies, the iPod and the Ipod Nano are the two smallest iterations of our computers.

See they play games, have a calendar, a clock, keep your contacts, stores/displays photos, and acts as a hard drive when connected to another computer. The iPod even plays video to a television screen. Oh, and they also play MP3's, as well as music in other formats.

We have been using a file hierarchy system in our computers since the 80's and the iPod and iPod Nano continue in that venerable tradition.

Thank you"

Creative loses. I just see it coming.

Exactly my thought. The iPod (prior to Gen5) could be used as a mobile bootable hard disk. How is that not a computer function vs. a MP3 player?
Speaking of Patents: Often times they are awarded with minimal checking and it only becomes relevant and thoroughly checked in court.

 

[vccavtech]

i hope the judgment goes agaisnt creative and they have to beart costs haha

i bet you the judge has an ipod! if so, guess who has a better chance of winning

 

[SiliconAddict]

Those who cannot compete, sue.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Again, this cannot be done on the iPod – you must use iTunes to do this.

What about the On-The-Go playlists? 😕

 

[SiliconAddict]

i bet you the judge has an ipod! if so, guess who has a better chance of winning

the overall maturity level of the boards just dropped 30%. 🙄 Do you REALLY think a judge is going to base his or her decision on the wares they own?

 

[Peace]

The good thing is the last time a company sued Apple for this type of thing a new iPod came out a week later.

So now we know what the insider industrial spies know 😉

 

[MacPhreak]

I just looked at Creative's sight for the first time in my life. All I can say is: Seriously, WTF? There are 25, yes, TWENTY-FIVE different models of MP3 players. How is anyone supposted to pick one? I never truely appreciated Apple's model line-up. Small, medium, and large. Easy as pie.

I guess I'm getting old, but I've got better things to do with my time then sort through 25 models to find the right one.

 

[bigwig]

Unfortunately, patent investigators are human. Worse, they are often hopelessly over-worked humans. They make mistakes. Lots of them. Those mistakes stand, however, until they are challenged in court as Creative is doing.

The US patent system is far, far worse than what you describe: computer science degrees aren't acceptable credentials for patent examiners. You have, at best, non-CS electrical engineers (computers are electrical, right?) examining what are essentially software patents, and they are quite frankly clueless as to the state and history of the software art. They aren't merely "making mistakes", they're patently unqualified for the job. To make matters worse, patents are written in an absurd legalese (see above) that's difficult for an experienced software engineer to decipher. Anybody else has no chance, but they're likely to grant the patent anyway because they don't want to appear ignorant.

 

[askegg]

What about the On-The-Go playlists? 😕

Opps - just looked at my iPod. You know, I have never used that function! Thanks 🙂

 

[scan300]

iPod shipped well before any versin of OS X with column views did.

1st ipod launched Oct 2001
OSX 10.0 launched March 2001 had column views (Public beta circulated in Sept 2000 also had column views)

 

[mikemodena]

I don't think Creative will win, but if they did it would cripple Apple.

 

[plinkoman]

i think i'm going to sue creative for being completely ****ing retarded. 😎

 

[CubaTBird]

i had one of these once.. big and bulky let me tell you. 😉

 

[beefstu01]

The US patent system is far, far worse than what you describe: computer science degrees aren't acceptable credentials for patent examiners. You have, at best, non-CS electrical engineers (computers are electrical, right?) examining what are essentially software patents, and they are quite frankly clueless as to the state and history of the software art. They aren't merely "making mistakes", they're patently unqualified for the job. To make matters worse, patents are written in an absurd legalese (see above) that's difficult for an experienced software engineer to decipher. Anybody else has no chance, but they're likely to grant the patent anyway because they don't want to appear ignorant.

Now you watch yourself. There are plenty of EE's that are much better software developers than CS majors. In reality, CS is just a subset of EE, a level of abstraction or two above what electrical engineers usually deal with, but it's often the case that people from both disciplines will work on the the same stuff together. EE's have a lot more software experience than you may think. We don't only deal with silicon, you know. Electrical engineering is way too broad of a field for you to make generalizations like that.

(Gotta defend the major)

 

[termite]

Perfect Timing Creative!

Today the Supreme Court ruled that injunctions will no longer be automatic. Creative will have to actually win the case before they will be allowed to break Apple's kneecaps.

Mwahahahaha!

 

[amateurmacfreak]

The idea of no iPods just makes me so unhappy. 🙁 😡
But I doubt Creative will win.... riiiiight?