Gatorman said:I'm a doctor, not a lawyer....in English please. Otherwise you will force me to go into the complete biochemical metabolic pathways of Gluconeogenesis! Mwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
The synthesis of glucose, correct?
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Creative Sues Apple, Seeks Injunction
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The synthesis of glucose, correct?
It's almost as annoying as a board full of half-wits jumping to conclusions over an issue they know little about.dferrara said:
nagromme said:NeXT was certainly the basis for the navigation on OS X and iPod, but they did not have the first GUI column view. That honor goes to...
SmallTalk, circa 1974:
Source: A History of the GUI:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/
Uuuuhhh, your history might be a BIT OFF, hyarcical menus in the Mac WAY COOL BEFORE NeXT EVER showed up
yac_moda said:Uuuuhhh, your history might be a BIT OFF, hyarcical menus in the Mac WAY COOL BEFORE NeXT EVER showed up
Hierarchal file system and column viewing are VERY different concepts
As I recall the column view idea made it into sketches of the Lisa GUI design but was later rejected as being too complicated for the average person. When those engineers left Apple for NeXT they got a second chance to put it back into the GUI. But because some people at NeXT still felt it was too complicated to stand on it's own, they added a path of icons directly above the columns to help people keep track of where they were.nagromme said:
So no, neither Apple nor NeXT hold the patent on this technique of browsing data.
As for the idea of organizing music by genre, album, artist and track... prior art can come from anyone who made a relational database of their music collection... which I think is one of those "hello world" type of examples used in teaching people to make databases.
As for using the metadata within MP3 files for the data to organize those files... that would fall under the control of the Moving Picture Experts Group as MP3 is their file format (it is part of MPEG-1). The fact that the data is their means that it was meant to be used... Creative can't corner the market on using data that was meant to be used by everyone.
Basically... this is a sad case.
RacerX said:
NO, Apple has ALREADY told us the answer in this ...
... Realtime quotes on its stock would be available now if there was NOTHING to this case
AND WHAT ABOUT THEIR LONG TIME LEGAL DIRECTOR BEING LAYED OFF LAST WEEK !?!?!?!?!
AND this CRAZY string of Rumors for the last few weeks, YOU KNOW APPLE DOES MOST OF THESE LEAKs INTENTIONALLY TO KEEP THE STOCK PRICE UP, now Sony is releasing BLUE RAY in its laptops, this happens, and WHO KNOWS what MS has up its sleeve with xBox.
What if MS has a tiny xBox player that can double as a music player ...
... GOODBYE HUGE iPod sales !!!
Walmart music sales online coming in June is NOT A RUMOR !
Creative's Patent is for a different interface
Zeke et al: Look at the image in the patent. It also specifies "a method of...."
Well if you look at the image, their "method of" is a Windows 'Tree' with [+] 's and [] 's for expansion of the tree and buttons on the right side of the screen. Definitely not similar to the graphical interface on the iPod.
RJB
Zeke et al: Look at the image in the patent. It also specifies "a method of...."
Well if you look at the image, their "method of" is a Windows 'Tree' with [+] 's and [] 's for expansion of the tree and buttons on the right side of the screen. Definitely not similar to the graphical interface on the iPod.
RJB
Zeke said:
Apple - $60 billion market cap
Creative - $1/2 billion market cap
Crush them, Apple.......
I seem to remember that iTunes came from MacAmp was it? Didnt that essentially mean that iTunes file hierarchy system is about 2 to 3 years before Creatives insanely generalised patent?
BTW, can I patent " a distinct number and order of letters in the alphabet, based on a familial hierarchical naming system going back over 200 years"?
If so, 'ElGruga' is mine, all mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Creative - $1/2 billion market cap
Crush them, Apple.......
I seem to remember that iTunes came from MacAmp was it? Didnt that essentially mean that iTunes file hierarchy system is about 2 to 3 years before Creatives insanely generalised patent?
BTW, can I patent " a distinct number and order of letters in the alphabet, based on a familial hierarchical naming system going back over 200 years"?
If so, 'ElGruga' is mine, all mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yac_moda said:NO, Apple has ALREADY told us the answer in this ...
... Realtime quotes on its stock would be available now if there was NOTHING to this case
AND WHAT ABOUT THEIR LONG TIME LEGAL DIRECTOR BEING LAYED OFF LAST WEEK !?!?!?!?!
AND this CRAZY string of Rumors for the last few weeks, YOU KNOW APPLE DOES MOST OF THESE LEAKs INTENTIONALLY TO KEEP THE STOCK PRICE UP, now Sony is releasing BLUE RAY in its laptops, this happens, and WHO KNOWS what MS has up its sleeve with xBox.
What if MS has a tiny xBox player that can double as a music player ...
... GOODBYE HUGE iPod sales !!!
Walmart music sales online coming in June is NOT A RUMOR !
how do you get through the day?
i thought i was bad.
LOLbeatle888 said:
I guess you meant something like this...
If initial stock reaction was a legitimate judge of the out come of a case, then the SCO Group (who stock jumped from $4 to almost $30 when they sued IBM over Linux) would be on their way to a major win... as it currently stands in discovery, the judge just ask SCO (who was under orders to provide prove of their claims with specificity) if this was all they had when IBM pointed out that SCO has failed to show any infringement.yac_moda said:
A stock ticker has absolutely no baring here.
If you want to follow knee-jerk public reaction to all this... that is your choice. I, on the other hand, would like to look at the merits of the case.
or lack of merits in this case. beatle888, was that what you were thinking of?
quietmind said:
I'm not really for creative but the date of the suit has nothing to do with the merit of the case. I'm sure i pointed this out before in another discussion thread but a company does not have to file a lawsuit immediately after it discovers an infringement on its patent. They could have secretly been in talks with apple to license their patents and apple balked. They could have been doing research to determine damages.. there is a host of reasons why they waited.. they do not have to explain why they waited. I see this in so many forums.. people saying.. well X company could have sued y years ago so that must mean their suit is not valid (just ask RIM (makers of blackberry) how that thinking went).
elgruga said:
It was SoundJam, but it doesn't matter. Claim 1 of the Creative patent spells out that the scope is very narrow, only for the application of this kind of menu to a portable media player. iTunes isn't a portable media player, so it's a different animal as far as this patent goes.
I found a reatime quote, the RT quotes for Apple on YAHOO were down previously, but JUST NOW they have show up again !!! Yahoo says up 0.14 but the links USUALLY don't work so it does NOT seem to be working propperly !!!
Freerealtime quotes on the other hand says DOWN 0.18 (0.27), I think they END at 8:00 p.m. so THAT would be correct ...
http://quotes.freerealtime.com/dl/frt/M?IM=quotes&symbol=AAPL&type=Quote
Oh well, either way its NOT MUCH
YOU DON"T think Apple loosing its legal director of MANY YEARS is a BIG DEAL --> you don't know about investing
Freerealtime quotes on the other hand says DOWN 0.18 (0.27), I think they END at 8:00 p.m. so THAT would be correct ...
http://quotes.freerealtime.com/dl/frt/M?IM=quotes&symbol=AAPL&type=Quote
Oh well, either way its NOT MUCH
YOU DON"T think Apple loosing its legal director of MANY YEARS is a BIG DEAL --> you don't know about investing
That is one of the reasons I wouldn't think this type of patent is enforceable (or should have even been granted).iMeowbot said:
If this type of thing was patentable then Apple could have cornered the market on handheld devices with the Newton using some very basic aspects of how it worked.
... of course that was back in the early 90's before IP craziness.
081440 said:how do you patent a file tree????
Isn't that something that would by considered ovious or already invented/anybody could do that?
Can I patent my file tree in finder
Actually, Creative is not suing over the technology behind the user interface, they are suing over the user interface. To give an idea of the difference. The MacOS is based on a file system that was already invented and it's core technology is unix based. That does not mean that any company can just come along and make a clone of macOS and claim that they have a right to because the underlying technology was already there. All mp3 players use the same file structure yet the user interfaces are different.
nagromme said:NeXT was certainly the basis for the navigation on OS X and iPod, but they did not have the first GUI column view. That honor goes to...
SmallTalk, circa 1974:
Source: A History of the GUI:
http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gui.ars/
OH man
I thought I invented the twisty thingy in figure 1 RacerX said:LOL
I guess you meant something like this...
If initial stock reaction was a legitimate judge of the out come of a case, then the SCO Group (who stock jumped from $4 to almost $30 when they sued IBM over Linux) would be on their way to a major win... as it currently stands in discovery, the judge just ask SCO (who was under orders to provide prove of their claims with specificity) if this was all they had when IBM pointed out that SCO has failed to show any infringement.
A stock ticker has absolutely no baring here.
If you want to follow knee-jerk public reaction to all this... that is your choice. I, on the other hand, would like to look at the merits of the case.
beatle888, was that what you were thinking of?
Uuuuu
I have a question for CAN YOU READ I SAID, "Its not much of a change !"
AND I was getting MORE EXCITED by the apparent stock price manipulation leading up to this, I know that is a streeeeech, but the last few weeks have been VERRRRRY unusual ...
... and YOU did NOT read or did not read careful so YOU missed my point
THUS you did not make YOUR point SO I WAS THE ONE THAT DID THE BUTT KICKING
Prior art
Well, then ... the column view (browser view) has been in NeXTSTEP (1) since 1989. Apple acquired NeXT in the mid-90s.
Moreover! Filtering data using a column view is also quite old. It has been used in data-warehousing as way of drilling (2). In the music player it is nothing more, nothing less: it is drilling-down through your song database.
(1) http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/vpc/images/nextstep.jpg
(2) http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/drill_down.html
dpaanlka said:
Well, then ... the column view (browser view) has been in NeXTSTEP (1) since 1989. Apple acquired NeXT in the mid-90s.
Moreover! Filtering data using a column view is also quite old. It has been used in data-warehousing as way of drilling (2). In the music player it is nothing more, nothing less: it is drilling-down through your song database.
(1) http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/vpc/images/nextstep.jpg
(2) http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/D/drill_down.html