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stupid is stupid doing

Buying stolen property...... How many times does this need repeating?

not only did hey BUY stolen property, he ADMITTED to buying stolen property, and then SELF INCRIMINATES himself by putting it up on the net.

can we say: STUPID, RETARDED, SELF SERVING, SELF DESERVING, DISRESPECTFUL GENERATION.

let this be a lesson to all: DON'T F* WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S PROPERTY! here in texas, YOU GET SHOT FOR THIS!
 
dude, you're the joke.
some idiot Apple trusted with this iphone to test, protect, and shroud in secrecy had a few too many and left the product in the hands of the public. then the press got a hold of it and did as their job titles' suggest -- investigated the situation and got the full story.

how would Gizmodo have tested for said cancer without obtaining the product? yeah, contradictory.

and where was Gizmodo making money? last i heard they lost $5,000 just to get their hands on it.

i can't find any listings on Ebay from Gizmodo regarding this iphone.

not a crime.
the real crime is seizing a journalist's property because you're Apple and think you rule the world and life is just SO unfair 'cause you screwed up -- big time.

Gizmodo should be investigated.

Being shielded because they are "journalists" Is a joke.

If Gizmodo had found evidence showing that Apple was withholding information that the iPhone causes testicular cancer etc, then fine.

But this was just about Gizmiodo wanting to be in the lime-light and make some cash.

No doubt Gizmodo have cost Apple a lot of cash.

Throw the book at Jason Chen is what I say.
 
sounds like you work with a crowd of people that keep in touch with the world...probably the same kind of people that find out if the product they are about to buy is about to become obsolete by a new release by the company that made it.

I did not say nobody knew about it.
just that the people that know.. also understand product life cycles

where i work less than 25 people know about it.. and some of them only know because i told them the story.

I don't know, my manager at my grooming salon (pet store) knows about the leak. And she's not young at all (and does not work with computers at all).
 
Why do you assume people have high moral fabric? Look around you; the evidence is overwhelming.

I don't assume *EVERYONE* has high moral fabric. I work retail, I've seen some of the other side too.

Saying it is so doesn't make it so. And to generalize on the basis of your own self-conceptualization is hardly worth much.

Wait, doesn't that work against you too? My point wasn't that everyone has high moral fabric. My point was that you shouldn't assume everyone is like you and I have seen with my own eyes (not just me but other people) that there are plenty of people who do have high moral fabric.
 
I think I read that the guy who found it called Apple and Apple claimed it wasn't their phone. If you tried to return it, the owner denies it's theirs, then is it stealing? I think there is a case that a reasonable attempt was made to return it.

Hang on to that ticket # dude.

uhm, but if I found a phone that was made by Samsung, I'm not going to call Samsung. I personally wouldn't know what a Samsung protoype looks like, so I'm not going to call them, I might go through the phone and search through contacts to find out who the phone belonged to. If no luck there or as stated the phone was bricked, I'd leave it with the barkeep for their lost and found and move along.
 
So if you buy a stolen (not really stolen but, found) iPhone, your home gets raided by the government and all of your computer equipment is detained and searched through?

Yeah, right. This only happens because of how Apple has an extreme obsession with secrecy.

You people are hilarious. Everything is Apple elitist to you! Someone BROKE THE LAW . . The item didn't belong to anyone but Apple who created it, why on earth is that so hard for people to understand? This elitist stuff is ridiculous.
 
The easy answer to that is that the burden of proof in any legal proceeding would be on those asserting that the phone is stolen.

I'm a lawyer with 25 years admission to the bar and deciding whether 1) the phone was stolen; 2) Gizmodo is liable civilly for its subsequent actions would require a lot more information that has come to light in MacRumors threads so far. The California statutes that have been posted so far leave a lot of room for factfinder decision, e.g., the requirement of "knowing" appropriation of the property of another or what constitutes a "reasonable and just attempt" to find the owner of "lost" property are questions for a jury and depend on the specific facts introduced into evidence.

Counselor - 2800.1 says he has to turn it over to the police. Instead he sold it. It's not really a gray a line as you are making it out to be. Are you a member of the cal bar?
 
The basis of trade secret is someone benefits by keeping it secret. Like, say, the formula for Coca Cola. Someone "reporting" the formula for Coca Cola would be treated the exact same way.

Oh boy, I wouldn't want to be that person. Talk about a company with a lot of power (and unlike Apple no one would blink if Coke did the same thing to the person who reported the formula for Coke). The head of Coke does, in fact, control a city (de facto). There are two lines of thought in sociology how a city is run. They almost never agree. They do agree that the head of Coke (and Ted Turner but probably less true these days) head Atlanta.

That and they do hold a lot of sway with the US government. The FDA wanted to consider a PH of 3 as toxic but could not cause Coke would not let them ;).
 
Counselor - 2800.1 says he has to turn it over to the police. Instead he sold it. It's not really a gray a line as you are making it out to be. Are you a member of the cal bar?

Suddenly everyone's a lawyer. LOL

I know of only ONE on these boards. ;)

And I didn't have to look at his professional profile on his firm's site to get that impression. Mostly because lawyers *usually* make sense.
 
You should head over to appleinsider, they never let facts get in the way of self promoting apple products, you will love it, all positives and no negatives.. Though i am really interested how your find macrumours to be a great source of editorial content, given they do not actually write the stories but collate them.

That's the very reason I like MacRumors. I see news relating to Apple products without having to read through paragraphs of personal opinion and editorial garbage. Is the site biased? Of course! I have less issue with bias than I do with people standing on their little soap box pretending they're hardcore investigative journalists (like the guys over at Gizmodo). Let me have the headlines and a brief blurb, thank you very much!
 
Counselor - 2800.1 says he has to turn it over to the police. Instead he sold it. It's not really a gray a line as you are making it out to be. Are you a member of the cal bar?

Doubt it, but I bet he *goes* to a bar. Does that count? :D
 
Yet more internet convictions by those who have no knowledge of the facts, just the gossip and rumours that spring up on a few sites - "I read it on the internet, it must be true".

"Stolen iPhone" ? "Stolen Property" ? Prove it. And I don't mean start quoting the California Penal Code. You need to prove, with corroboration for all non-physical evidence, ie. all testimony, that the crime of theft has been committed. You have to prove it beyond ALL reasonable doubt.

"So the guy allegedly steals the iPhone and then makes multiple calls to Apple the next day" ? Well, that's not going to convict him.

Not helped by the Apple Engineer. loses the phone, or allegedly has it stolen, gets it back 5 weeks later and then reports it stolen. After 5 weeks ? Sure there's a limit to how long they can wait to report it, and they're well within it, but 5 weeks, and after you have it returned ? And what efforts did the engineer make to retrieve the phone ? Did he even call his own number when they awoke from their night on the ale ? (The first thing anyone does when they misplace their phone). The defence will be in fits of laughter.

You need to prove the phone stolen before you can even look at Gizmodo. Did they belive it stolen ? The guy that found it must have had a good story to tell them about the circumstances of finding it, and their efforts to return it.

I'm not saying everybody is innocent, but you need to do more research before declaring someone as guilty, or you better get back onto Google to find out how to defend yourself in a libel case.

I wish I could find that post by cmaier that I just think is the best response to those who would defend the thief and Gizmodo by finding fault with the engineer; something to the effect of, "Well, he deserved it. Walking into a bar with an iPhone wearing that low-cut blouse and short skirt, what did he expect to happen? He was asking for it."

Incidentally, you can defend yourself in a defamation case (and it would be libel, not slander) brought by the thief or Gizmodo on the grounds that they both are now public figures and that you are expressing an opinion. (And I didn't even need to resort to Google.)

And one more thing: the only way any of us, including the District Attorney, is going to prove the guilt of the thief is by starting with the law. In this case there is no one denying that the finder sold the phone to Gizmodo, based on all the reports, so we can assume that fact can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a courtroom. Once the People prove this fact, the burden shifts to the defendant to produce evidence that he undertook efforts to restore the phone to its rightful possessor, i.e., either Apple or the engineer. We don't know what evidence he might proffer, but I think it's not unreasonable to base our discussions on what Gizmodo reported until we hear directly from the finder. In court, once the defendant adduces evidence of his efforts, the burden of persuasion lies with the People to convince a jury, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the efforts the defendant claims he made were either were not truly made, or that they were insufficient to meet the legal requirement that they be "reasonable and just".

In fact, there is very little "proof" for the State to present in a case like this. Usually in a larceny case the major question is whether or not the defendant was the one who took the goods. Here, there is no question that he took the phone, nor is there any question that it was not his. No one is arguing that the engineer made the finder a gift of it, that the finder innocently mistook it for his own, or that the engineer intended to discard the phone.

The only additional "proof" the People will need to produce is if it disputes whatever account of his activities the defendant offers. Otherwise, it is simply a question of arguing about whether or not what the defendant says he did to get the phone back to either the engineer or Apple was reasonable and just.

And we're all just participating in much the same argument that will go on in the jury room, and anyone here or at the water cooler is perfectly free to say how they would vote were they on the jury and the scenario reported by Gizmodo were relied upon by the defendant. And it is entirely within anyone's rights to respond, without fear of being sued for defamation, "GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!"
 
Cartaphilus,

If we accept as indisputable fact that he sold the phone, we are done. Reasonable efforts don't matter. Before he can obtain title to the phone he has to give it to the police under 2800.1. No matter how hard he tried to find the owner, he had no more right to sell the phone than he had to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

They will claim it was not a sale it was $5000 for "an exclusive story" and he gave it to gizmodo to return to apple. Just like the guy extorting Letterman was selling a screenplay. I'm sure the defense will be equally successful.
 
I think APPL is just going to be making a big example out of Chen. I don't think they will throw the book at him, Gizmo helps APPL's business afterall, but they will use this as an opportunity to make an example/warning for this kind of thing
 
I think APPL is just going to be making a big example out of Chen. I don't think they will throw the book at him, Gizmo helps APPL's business afterall, but they will use this as an opportunity to make an example/warning for this kind of thing

What is APPL?
 
uhm, but if I found a phone that was made by Samsung, I'm not going to call Samsung. I personally wouldn't know what a Samsung protoype looks like, so I'm not going to call them, I might go through the phone and search through contacts to find out who the phone belonged to. If no luck there or as stated the phone was bricked, I'd leave it with the barkeep for their lost and found and move along.

Exactly! A normal person doesn't take a phone home, take the case off and discover it's a prototype and then shop it around to wired, endgadget, gizmodo etc. You just hand it to the bartender and figure that someone will come back looking for it.
 
I think APPL is just going to be making a big example out of Chen. I don't think they will throw the book at him, Gizmo helps APPL's business afterall, but they will use this as an opportunity to make an example/warning for this kind of thing

That has nothing to do with Apple (and definitely nothing to do with APPL. You may use Google to find out who APPL is; you may be surprised). There is theft, receiving stolen goods, and misappropriation of trade secrets, with the trade secrets in my opinion the worst. All three will be prosecuted whether Apple wants it or not, once the DA knows about it.
 
Definition of lost.

a. No longer in the possession, care, or control of someone or something

So if I am walking through a park, and find an ipod, are you telling me it is now stolen??? No i am in possesion of property that does not belong to me, but it is not stolen, i have a care of duty to report this to authorotise, and if it is not claimed after x time i can take possesion of it.

If you ever buy a stolen car, you are not a criminal!! What it means, is when the rightful owner claims it back , you legally have to return it and your out of pocket.

So you agree the guy stole the phone? Who are you disagreeing with, I am confused :)

The easy answer to that is that the burden of proof in any legal proceeding would be on those asserting that the phone is stolen.

I'm a lawyer with 25 years admission to the bar and deciding whether 1) the phone was stolen; 2) Gizmodo is liable civilly for its subsequent actions would require a lot more information that has come to light in MacRumors threads so far. The California statutes that have been posted so far leave a lot of room for factfinder decision, e.g., the requirement of "knowing" appropriation of the property of another or what constitutes a "reasonable and just attempt" to find the owner of "lost" property are questions for a jury and depend on the specific facts introduced into evidence.

Juries decide facts and juries are made of lay people not lawyers. If we accept the interpretation of the law that several folks who are actually members of the California Bar have provided for us and then independently review the "confession" provided by Gizmodo, most of us reasonable people seem to believe a crime was committed...Does it mean anything , no. Is it as far fetched as you seem to make it out to be no. Admittedly rules of evidence might change what a jury actually sees, but I think Gizmodo/Jason Chen would have a difficult time excluding anything they chose to publish.

Please note I have over 25 years of eligibility as a juror in the United States and 5 years in the Jurisdiction in question. This makes me more qualified to judge the facts of this case than you ;)
 
and where was Gizmodo making money? last i heard they lost $5,000 just to get their hands on it.

Gawker Media (parent company to Gizmodo) makes money by selling advertising on their site. How much they get for those ads is based upon page views. The more people that visit their site, the more money Gawker can charge.

Gawker doesn't reveal its ad revenue. But I know of sites that receive less traffic that will charge $5,000 per month for a single banner ad. I'm sure Gawker receives many times that amount. Particularly since they launched their initiative to pay bonuses to writers for page views (taken from this article in 2009):

Each writer on a site will have a (pretty demanding) individual pageview target…That target will be proportional to a writer’s base compensation. i.e. the more your monthly pay, the more people you’re expected to reach. If you go 10% over target, you get a 10% bump in pay. The target will rise as the traffic of the site as a whole increases. Your site’s editor-in-chief will be in touch to discuss the details later this week.

So Nick Denton (founder of Gawker) is dangling a nice juicy financial carrot out there to guys like Jason Chen to come up with a big story that brings lots of page views.

Bottom line: Gizmodo and Jason Chen wanted to expose the iPhone to MAKE MONEY. It's as simple as that. It was done in pursuit of the all-mighty dollar!

Mark
 
Cartaphilus,

If we accept as indisputable fact that he sold the phone, we are done. Reasonable efforts don't matter. Before he can obtain title to the phone he has to give it to the police under 2800.1. No matter how hard he tried to find the owner, he had no more right to sell the phone than he had to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

They will claim it was not a sale it was $5000 for "an exclusive story" and he gave it to gizmodo to return to apple. Just like the guy extorting Letterman was selling a screenplay. I'm sure the defense will be equally successful.

I wish I could share your confidence, and it's probably only because I lack your familiarity with the Penal Code.

If the finder took every effort anyone could think of, and the owners still could not be found, then the specific penal code section we've been relying upon doesn't apply. Of course you're right that he sold something that didn't belong to him, so he has civil liability to both the owner and to the buyer, but if he is guilty of a crime it must be because there is some other provision of the Penal Code under which it falls. If there isn't we should have a chat with a legislator.
 
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