Crucial m4 with ML

Discussion in 'OS X Mountain Lion (10.8)' started by BizRunner, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. BizRunner macrumors member

    BizRunner

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    #1
  2. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #2
    If you want something that plays nice, buy the Samsung 830
     
  3. mwhities macrumors 6502a

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    #3
    I'm currently using the 64G version of the Crucial M4 in my MacMini. No issues at all.
     
  4. dfnj123 macrumors 6502

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    #4
    Thank you for the pointless reply to the OP. I'm sure that helped answer his question.

    I'm running ML on a 256 GB Crucial M4 and it's working just fine.
     
  5. fisherking macrumors 601

    fisherking

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    #5
    also running the 256G M4, and couldn't be happier (well, i could be happier, but that's another story...)
     
  6. stanton macrumors member

    stanton

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    #6
    RE: Crucial m4 with ML

    I personally would be cautious. Apple officially doesn't support TRIM on these drives, and I don't believe that they have Sandforce or similiar hardware based management. Basically, this means the drive will not last as long as it should, since writes will occur on the same sectors repeatedly for erases and rewrites.

    My suggestion would be to give TRIM enabler a shot, though I don't know if it's been updated for ML or not.
    http://www.groths.org/?page_id=322
     
  7. colshine macrumors regular

    colshine

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    #7
    I've been using the Crucial M4 256GB with Lion and now ML and it works fine.
     
  8. BizRunner thread starter macrumors member

    BizRunner

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    #8
    Okay, to be honest I don't know a thing about TRIM, will that be a big issue with this HD?
     
  9. thatdudeinchina, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012

    thatdudeinchina macrumors newbie

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    #9
    Works perfectly...no need for TRIM..

    I have a Crucial M4 512GB and Mountain Lion and they are great together.
    Crucial sate on their website that TRIM isn't required on these drives as they have their own inbuilt garbage collection system. After 4 months of using this drive (without TRIM) in an MBP there haven't been any issues whatsoever.

    SandForce's strength is the ability to compress data before it gets into the flash memory. This peculiarity helps solve several problems at once: first of all, increase the performance and prolong the drive's resource. However, it only works well until the data stored on the drive are compressible. Otherwise, the advantages of SandForce controllers become not so obvious anymore.

    However, SSDs based on Marvell 88SS9174 do not depend on the type of data saved onto the drive. They demonstrate constant stable performance with compressible files as well as with incompressible photographs, videos and audio content. Moreover, Marvell 88SS9174 is capable of fighting the SSD performance degradation very effectively, so that it improves almost to its fresh level not only after the TRIM command, but even without it by simply performing idle garbage collection.

    Therefore, solid state drives with a Marvell controller inside are a much better fit for RAID arrays or systems that do not support TRIM. As for all other cases, the choice between Marvell or SandForce based SSD should depend on the preferred usage model. SandForce devices will work faster in everyday tasks dealing with well-compressible data, while Marvell devices will deliver higher performance with incompressible data and in case of dominating random requests at a deep queue, which is more typical of servers.

    - For the fastest speeds out of the box, don't enable TRIM for the M4.
    - The jury is still out on whether leaving TRIM disabled will cause the M4's performance to degrade substantially over time (more so than that which is unavoidable with current SSDs).
    - There's no conclusive evidence that enabling TRIM is detrimental to the M4 at this time.

    Even if you never enable TRIM the worst that will ever happen is your write speeds and write speeds only may slow down. If that happens, just install the TRIM hack, boot to single user mode, then run the command "fsck -ffy" (without the quotes) and all free space on the drive will be TRIMed and the drive will be back to like new performance.

    From the Crucial Website
    Recently we’ve received multiple calls about the TRIM feature and how it relates to Crucial SSDs. In a nutshell, TRIM is a feature that helps increase the efficiency of your SSD by preparing data blocks for reuse. Here’s how it works.

    TRIM and Data Blocks

    On hard drives and SSDs, data is stored in blocks (“data blocks”). Each data block has data from more than one file, and on a hard drive the blocks can be split whenever necessary. When you delete a file in your operating system, for example, the hard drive deletes only that specific file’s information from the data block, leaving the rest in place. When a file is deleted in the computer’s file system, the data stays on the block until the next time that block is needed. At that point the drive swiftly deletes that particular piece of data from that part of the block, and writes the new file there. Essentially, hard drives are able to delete information from part of a data block – they don’t have to delete the whole thing.

    In contrast, SSDs have to delete an entire data block before they’re able to reuse it. As such, when an SSD is trying to clear a data block, it puts a copy of everything on the block into a cache (“holding place”) and makes the necessary changes there. The SSD then deletes all of the data on the original block and writes the new data that it was trying to write in the first place.

    Understandably, going through all these steps takes a lot longer than it would have taken to simply write data to an empty block. Since the SSD knows this, it simply locates an empty block and writes there. This works great – as long as empty blocks are still available on the drive. When all of the blocks are filled up, the SSD has no choice but to start deleting blocks and reusing them, resulting in a drop in write speeds. This problem, however, can be overcome with TRIM – a feature that prompts the SSD to clear previously used data blocks. With TRIM, the next time an SSD’s filing system wants to write to those blocks, they are already empty and ready for use.

    Crucial SSDs and TRIM/Garbage Collection

    Since not all operating systems support TRIM, Crucial SSDs have a special feature called Active Garbage Collection. Active Garbage Collection is a process that helps an SSD maintain optimal performance by freeing up memory sectors that are no longer in use. Garbage collection is part of the SSD itself and thus not dependent on your computer’s operating system. Since garbage collection is part of the SSD’s firmware, it works regardless of which operating and filing systems your computer is using.

    Note: Garbage collection only works when your Crucial SSD is idle, so make sure to configure your system so it doesn’t go to sleep when it’s idling. Garbage Collection takes time to do its job, but as long as it gets time to idle every now and then, your Crucial SSD will maintain its high level of performance over time.


    Again, not using TRIM will in no way harm the drive. You can always enable it later if you feel you need it.

    Source - Google-Fu, various MacRumors posters and real-world experience of Sandforce and Marvell
     
  10. stanton, Jul 30, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2012

    stanton macrumors member

    stanton

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    #10
    Like I stated, it's more of an issue on how long the drive will last, not performance. I tend to stick with Sandforce drives just to be safe, since they have hardware that basically handles this management for you. I know TRIM Enabler worked fine in Lion, so I'm thinking it should do the same in ML.

    @thatdudeinchina -Sorry didn't know that the drive had garbage management, and that was my main concern.

    @BizRunner - Basically, this means there should be no issue with or without the TRIM Enabler program.
     
  11. thatdudeinchina macrumors newbie

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    #11
    Sorry didn't mean to sound rude

    Sorry didn't mean to sound rude. You are, of course, correct. There will possibly be a difference in the lifespan of the drive(s) when talking about TRIM. I suppose time will tell for us all. For now at least, it seems the Garbage Collection is doing it's job. The drives haven't been around long enough for any of us to have done comprehensive real-world testing. I guess at the end of the day it's easy enough to reset it and enable TRIM if it all goes wrong..;)
     
  12. TheOriginalKi macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Trim enabler works fine in ML with my 256GB M4.
     
  13. stanton macrumors member

    stanton

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    #13
    No offense taken, I wrote back and just edited because you had more info then I had about Crucial's drives. I'm certainly not a genius on SSDs, so more info is always better.
     
  14. fisherking macrumors 601

    fisherking

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    #14
    i ran my M4 without trim at first, then enabled it...then disabled it.
    in the short run, there was no perceivable difference in performance.

    am happy with the M4, and with ML. best mac experience so far...
     
  15. Krazy Bill macrumors 68030

    Krazy Bill

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    #15
    Utter nonsense.

    Regardless, 3rd party SSD's inside a macbook will all be moot one day soon.
     
  16. ixodes macrumors 601

    ixodes

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    #16
    I use Samsung 830 series in the 512GB Size.

    However a good friend of mine just installed the Crucial you're interested in and it too, is running fast smooth and very reliably. I would trust Crucial.
     
  17. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    #17
    I have a 256GB M4 too FW 309.
    It made for some quite unstable operation and multiple freezes after too many disk writes under Snow Leopard. Never any problem in Windows but I use Windows 7 less.
    Running ML now but 2 days really isn't representative.

    I would recommend the Samsung 830 it is faster more energy efficient in idle and you never hear about problems. The M4 is really quite bad. Some firmware doesn't work at all with some MBPs. I think 2011 13" and 00F FW which is newer than mine broke it.

    Whatever I run it on a 2010 15" in the optibay. Under SL it was so buggy I wanted to give it back. Will see how it does under ML. I wouldn't buy it again though. Get the Samsung 830.
     
  18. BizRunner thread starter macrumors member

    BizRunner

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    #18
    Thanks for the help everyone. I am still not sure if I am going to upgrade the HD now or wait for Christmas, (I am a college kid and I don't know if I want to spend the money yet or not) but I will keep you updated on what I decide to do!

    I am going to install 8GB of RAM for sure as that is only $40, but I am not sure if I want to spend $233 on a SSD right now.
     
  19. CosmoPilot macrumors 65816

    CosmoPilot

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    #19
    Running a 512 Crucial M4...no issues what so ever!
     
  20. likegadgets macrumors 6502

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    #20
    I have a 2011 iMac 27" with a 512 GB M4. Upgraded to ML the first day. No issues, running flawlessly (M4 has latest firmware)
     
  21. ugp macrumors 65816

    ugp

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    #21
    I am using a 256GB M4 with TRIM Enabled running ML with no issues at all. Been using it for over a month now with no issues since I bought the new MBP. Couldn't be happier. Was $80 cheaper than the Samsung at the time of purchase for me and the difference in write speed wasn't worth it to me.
     
  22. Stooby Mcdoobie macrumors 6502a

    Stooby Mcdoobie

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    #22
    I also have the m4 256GB SSD and have run into zero problems.
     

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  23. rtrueman macrumors member

    rtrueman

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    #23
    Just upgraded my Late 2008 15" MBP with a 256GB Crucial M4. I did some research previous to my purchase last week. Most folks are running fine with the 000F firmware (mine came with the installed, but it's an easy upgrade from their website). I haven't enabled TRIM after speaking with their tech support folks. He recommended logging out of the OS and leaving the Mac at the login screen. This idles the drive (even when it's the system drive) and allows garbage collection to run. Hmmmm... okay I guess, but I don't think the drive is idel just because you're on the login screen. Can anyone comment?

    Also, I've noticed my fans are now at 100% (6200 RPM) now that the system is back together. I believe it's due to the M4 not reporting temperature and the MBP seeing this as an overheating issue. I know other manufacturers (OCZ?) are added a "dummy" temperature reading so the fans don't kick on. Crucial is looking at doing something similar. For now, my fans are cranking!

    Rob
     
  24. krspkbl macrumors 6502

    krspkbl

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    #24
    I have the Crucial M4 256GB and I'm on ML. No problems with it at all! *touch wood*.

    The SSD has firmware 0309 on it. I was going to update it to 000F but I don't feel too confident about installing it as I'm not entirely sure what to do. I was also thinking about enabling TRIM but I've read some comments that it isn't needed on these drives and that it can cause problems for some people.

    Basically, the SSD and ML are getting on very well, I have no problems. Why fix it if it isn't broken?
     
  25. rtrueman macrumors member

    rtrueman

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    #25
    Completely agree with that statement! I assume your fan isn't running full speed? I made some other changes (some inadvertent) when installing the SSD and I'm wondering if there's something else going on.
     

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