Customer Backlash on iPhone Rate Plans, Launch Approaches

[McGiord]

The comparison of the Balckberry data plan vs the iPhone isn't right, typically the Blackberry data plan isn't paid by the user, it is paid by their employer, while most of the iPhone users pay from their pockets.
For how long AT&T is going to keep the same service fees?
We waited 1 year for the 3G, and now we are facing the upgrade dilema, most of our concerns are if we will get the best hardware price and what the 3G service will cost us.

for how long we will be using the 3G? What new kind of service will AT&T offer? Thethering, isn't that too expensive? Once they know how many users are hooked they will come up with extra data charges: live TV, hotspots, ????

I only wish that I could pay a single monthly fee ~$80/month for all my communications needs: fast Internet at home, on the road and in my iPhone + voice and SMS.

The only way to lower it is with good competitors, and with a single carrier offering the iPhone this is very difficult.
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[t0mat0]

I'm not a techie, but I know cell phones use radio waves to communicate. Are the voice, data, and text messages all going out and coming in through the same radio waves?

kdarling answered a similar question a bit ago -
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/5690830/

I'll quote for ease of reading:

I hate articles written by non-engineers.

The cost difference is because SMS and data connections are two totally different delivery methods.

SMS

SMS is part of the circuit switched (voice) realm. It's a dedicated connection, a page, like an incoming ring. Therefore it is traditionally charged as a voice call... that is, by time. After all, it is true push notification, and works no matter where you are in the world.

That is, an SMS must be able to find your phone and "ring" it with the data. That takes a valuable amount of telephone carrier signaling bandwidth.

Let's say you have a 450 minute voice plan for $40. That means each minute costs you about $0.08. An SMS is like an incoming call and therefore should really count as a minimum of a minute... or 8 cents. But instead, you get 200 SMS for $5... or about 2 cents each.

DATA

Data is part of the packet switched realm. That means there is no need for a dedicated connection. Data connections come and go as needed.

Most importantly, it's initiated by the phone. There is no need for the carrier to find you wherever you are in the world, to send a response. You sent the request, so the response goes back the same way. It's a no brainer connection, and can even go straight to the internet from a tower in some cases.

Since it's not a dedicated connection, data is charged by amount (bytes) instead of time as voice or SMS are.

The upshot is, you can't directly compare time charges to amount charges.

 

[twoodcc]

well, hopefully at&t will do something about their data plans...cuz if they don't, then i'm not getting one

 

[daneoni]

Nah, your computer isn't _filled_ with new technology. It's old technology.

Remember, new technology costs money. Once the technology is initially paid for, then the price drops. It's been this way for as long as people have been inventing and selling.

Only small components in a computer get new updates now days, and yes, you do pay for it.

In some cases, but take Apple, when they introduce new tech components (802.11n, new processor/platform/redesigns) into their hardware it usually stays the same price or less and lets face it 3G is not a new technology for AT&T nor is SMS. Your not paying for new technology you're just paying AT&T back the subsidy+gouging profit in this case IMO

 

[AlphaAnt]

The comparison of the Balckberry data plan vs the iPhone isn't right, typically the Blackberry data plan isn't paid by the user, it is paid by their employer, while most of the iPhone users pay from their pockets.

That's not true at all. There are two different fee levels for corporate users and home users. Corporate users pay $45 dollars for data, not $30 (sound familiar?). The Curve and Pearl models are marketed towards home users, which is why they have cameras.

With the iPhone 3G, the competition will move the other direction. My company (of 100,000+ employees) is already looking at how we can allow iPhones to be an alternative to Blackberries. Considering the plans will cost the same they do with BBs, and the device can be under $200, as long as it satisfies our security department, it's good to go. After all, we're already paying that amount for our BBs (well, at a discount, but we'll get the same discount with iPhones also).

For how long AT&T is going to keep the same service fees?
We waited 1 year for the 3G, and now we are facing the upgrade dilema, most of our concerns are if we will get the best hardware price and what the 3G service will cost us.

Blackberries run almost exactly the same at the moment. The hardware is a little cheaper, but the models are old (as in no 3G).

for how long we will be using the 3G? What new kind of service will AT&T offer? Thethering, isn't that too expensive? Once they know how many users are hooked they will come up with extra data charges: live TV, hotspots, ????

If the iPhone uses the right chipset, it could easily be upgraded to use the higher data speeds that AT&T has on their tech plan. So, it could be 10+Mbps in a few years easily.

I only wish that I could pay a single monthly fee ~$80/month for all my communications needs: fast Internet at home, on the road and in my iPhone + voice and SMS.

They'll keep charging that much as long as people keep paying. The way it looks like right now, the iPhone 3G isn't going to change that either.

 

[JBaker122586]

even at&t is pulling the same trash, thinking that people will just swallow and pay anything for this phone. This type of garbage is a great way to kill the iPhone.

Lol. Ok.
"Apple is pulling trash, charging $600 for the iPhone thinking people will just pay anything for it."

Guess why these prices exist: BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL, WITHOUT A DOUBT, PAY THEM.

This crazy thing called capitalism actually works.

 

[Prof.]

I was really considering getting a 3G iPhone later this year (possibly for X-Mas) but once I saw how much it was gonna cost me per month ($115) Screw it.

 

[amplifyfitness]

ATT won't get my business. Therefore Apple loses a sale.

Rogers, along with companies such as AT&T, are taking advantage of customers and POTENTIAL customers by offering ridiculously priced cell plans. Perhaps large companies like Rogers and AT&T need to be broken into smaller, less monopolizing entities. I for one, will not be purchasing an iPhone 3G from Rogers, AT&T, or Apple. While the iPhone 3G is a revolutionary product, the outrageously priced cell plans offered by Rogers and AT&T have convinced me NOT to purchase an iPhone 3G. Companies like Apple should realize that partnering with any cell company for exclusive rights is a deterrent to a large portion of their customer base resulting in less sales at first, a decreasing fan base secondly, and encouraging an underground community of hackers to free such devices as the iPhone 3G as a third result. I do not support hacking, but do understand why that market is created.

The best way to speak with your money. I'm screaming, "no sale".

 

[aristotle]

I bet Apple will pull the plug in Canada

Why would they? Because of a few echo chambers on the net? Because of people all over the world pretending to be Canadians for an online petition? Online petitions do nothing.

A lot of iPhones will be sold in Canada and some savvy customers will haggle with Rogers for a better voice plan with their iPhone. Many of the biggest complainers will still buy an iPhone but not have their wits about them to negotiate as they will be too busy stewing over their perceived problems with the data portion.


Most of the people suggesting CDMA services and alternative devices either work for a CDMA competitor or are not in the target market for the iPhone anyway and never travel outside of North America with their cell phone.

Having a GSM phone that even will work in Japan is important to me. Having a phone that is not crippled or bogged down with telco crapware is the main reason for me to get an iPhone in the first place.

 

[Vegasmo1]

This makes no sense.

You CAN afford it at $15 extra per month, or you cannot. It's that simple.

Thats like saying that I don't have an issue with a $2k mortgage, but it's the $24,000 over 12 months that I can't afford.

Huh!?

Why is everyone an AT&T apologist? The $15 dollars a month is coming out of your pocket too. For a better connection? So your telling me that I should pay more for the same service. The technology of the phone is the difference not the service. That is like telling me the electric company will give you faster electricity if you pay more. Am I the only one who isn't taking the crazy pills?

 

[Soreo]

To be honest, the more posts I read in this thread, the more I question about getting a new iPhone.

 

[aristotle]

I went on verizon website just out of curiosity...and I fail to see where their plans are any cheaper than AT&T

That's because they are not cheaper. What people are calling cheaper are phones and plans that have WAP based internet and phones which are locked to only support the carrier's ringtones.

 

[CalmEnvy]

I bet Apple will pull the plug in Canada

Not enough GSM carriers so Apple may. They should have knew Rogers would put out horrible plans, they have a monopoly on the GSM market in Canada.

 

[AppleMojo]

Why is everyone an AT&T apologist? The $15 dollars a month is coming out of your pocket too. For a better connection? So your telling me that I should pay more for the same service. The technology of the phone is the difference not the service. That is like telling me the electric company will give you faster electricity if you pay more. Am I the only one who isn't taking the crazy pills?

No pills at all. Please, stop being selfishly silly and think about it as a business.

If I am not mistaken, most of you all work for a business who has a product or service for which they receive money in return.

If AT&T dropped the price, then laid off 5,000 employee's you'd all be the first to start crying about how unfair this is.

Now a little lesson...

Lets say you rent your DSL connection to 100 users who connect at 1k/sec.

Now Apple comes along and sells new devices and wants all of your users to be able to connect at 10k/sec and they are now selling 5000 of them.

So much for the "same service" concept.

The infrastructure has worth, and you are paying for the purchase of the technology, deployment and maintenance costs, etc.

And of course you pay for the nice homes, cars and boats they own as well. Just like your home, car and computer were paid for by someone else.

Geesh... And to think these people vote.

 

[chas0001]

Has anybody heard what is happening in Spain? When you visit www.movistar.es it just tells you to enter your information and they will get back to you when the iPhone is released. Useless.....

Mañana, mañana, mañana, mañana!

 

[PCMacUser]

The backlash is understandable, I would lash out too if I could actually get pricing information out of Vodafone New Zealand.

I've tried numerous times to get information out of them and they keep chanting that it will be made available on the 11th (WHAT?).

Yeah, their lack of pricing information is making it seem less and less likely that I will be buying an iPhone on launch day.

It's here in four days and we don't even know how much it'll cost! WTF??

 

[Chundles]

Well, so far our prices are pretty good (ie - could have been a lot worse).

Only one telco has announced their full details - two more to go.

It's good being the only place in the world with three telcos selling the phone, it means that three massive companies can get together to screw us.

 

[KindredMAC]

To be honest, the more posts I read in this thread, the more I question about getting a new iPhone.

If you have an original like me, you just have to ask yourself these two questions:
1) Do I REALLY need 3G speeds for internet/data?
2) Do I REALLY need the GPS feature in Google Maps?

Once Software 2.0 comes out these are the ONLY differences, aside from cosmetic, between the two generations.

In regards to 3G network, AT$T has their 3G set up in pretty much major metropolitan centers across each state. It is not hard to find free WiFi in these locations. So you have to ask yourself if WiFi is good enough for you right now.

As for the GPS, yeah its nice but I like a lot of people I know already have a Garmin or Tom Tom or something along those lines that does a heckuva lot more than the iPhone's GPS.

If you can answer "NO" to both of the above questions then the answer is simple. If you answer "NO" to only one of them I still think you shouldn't upgrade.

My thoughts are that we are going to wait this generation out and see what comes around for Gen 3. I know my wife and I would have jumped at getting two iPhones this go-around if they had the much rumored front facing camera with iChat AV built in.

 

[aristotle]

Put a CDMA chip in it!

I have a killer data plan i have had for a couple years

Besides how often does the avg person travel outside CDMA coverage? Like really, people are all wound up on well one day next year i might go to europe ... so use wifi for those few days!

Increase the competiton, release it in CDMA!!!

Uh, maybe you should tell your boss at Telus or Bell to get off their fat asses and convert to GSM/UTMS already. I'm all for competition but CDMA is a dead end.

I went to Rome in 2005, Mexico in 2006, a whirlwind tour of Europe in 2007 and I'm off to London for a week in a couple weeks. After Rome, I bought a Quad-band GSM phone so that I could call for a cab, call my travel company in the case of a screw up and in general feel safe when out on the street. How am I supposed to use WiFI given that most handsets from CDMA providers do not include WiFi? How does that substitute for a lack of phone and emergency service?

I saw a lot of people on my flight alone travelling in economy class with cellphones that they used to call their loved ones upon arrival.

Releasing it in CDMA would just bring more confusion from dumb consumers who do not understand that the rest of the world uses GSM. They would probably complain to Apple because their iPhone that they spent 199-299 for does not work in Europe.



BTW, I'm happy to hear that the CDMA providers give great data plans to loyal employees like you.

 

[lc31c]

Pricing from rogers.

"While the iPhone 3G Voice and Data Packages allow you to use this device to its fullest and offer savings over separate voice and data plans, they are not the only options available to you. Other pricing options are available." -rogers

"If you are an existing customer, you may keep your existing voice service plan and add a separate data plan" - rogers

What the above means is that U can use any plan even the existing plan for iphone.

I went to a rogers location and found out this:
1) I can add 10-15$ on my current plan w/ 400min, text, etc and get A ton of data and get iphone or

2) USE ANY PLAN WITH THE ROGERS IPHONE. As low as 30$/month. And Blackberry, smartphone or even a simple voice plan will work.

No one reads the fine print on rogers.com but it clearly states that we do NOT have to pay what has been posted.

 

[mambodancer]

Right on...

No pills at all. Please, stop being selfishly silly and think about it as a business.

If I am not mistaken, most of you all work for a business who has a product or service for which they receive money in return.

If AT&T dropped the price, then laid off 5,000 employee's you'd all be the first to start crying about how unfair this is.

Now a little lesson...

Lets say you rent your DSL connection to 100 users who connect at 1k/sec.

Now Apple comes along and sells new devices and wants all of your users to be able to connect at 10k/sec and they are now selling 5000 of them.

So much for the "same service" concept.

The infrastructure has worth, and you are paying for the purchase of the technology, deployment and maintenance costs, etc.

And of course you pay for the nice homes, cars and boats they own as well. Just like your home, car and computer were paid for by someone else.

Geesh... And to think these people vote.

Great reply!

Actually, it's all a plot by Apple and Google to form their own mobile company and put the rest of these so called cell phone businesses out of...bizness!

 

[chas0001]

LIKE I SAID AN AT&T APOLOGIST. You probably believe Obama too.

Are you referring to Obama Bin Laden? http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/04/obama-corrects.html

 

[PCMacUser]

Lets say you rent your DSL connection to 100 users who connect at 1k/sec.

Now Apple comes along and sells new devices and wants all of your users to be able to connect at 10k/sec and they are now selling 5000 of them.

So much for the "same service" concept.

The infrastructure has worth, and you are paying for the purchase of the technology, deployment and maintenance costs, etc.

I can see how you're trying to apply a simplistic business logic to this scenario, but I really think it's more complex than this.

 

[Soreo]

If you have an original like me, you just have to ask yourself these two questions:
1) Do I REALLY need 3G speeds for internet/data?
2) Do I REALLY need the GPS feature in Google Maps?

Once Software 2.0 comes out these are the ONLY differences, aside from cosmetic, between the two generations.

In regards to 3G network, AT$T has their 3G set up in pretty much major metropolitan centers across each state. It is not hard to find free WiFi in these locations. So you have to ask yourself if WiFi is good enough for you right now.

As for the GPS, yeah its nice but I like a lot of people I know already have a Garmin or Tom Tom or something along those lines that does a heckuva lot more than the iPhone's GPS.

If you can answer "NO" to both of the above questions then the answer is simple. If you answer "NO" to only one of them I still think you shouldn't upgrade.

My thoughts are that we are going to wait this generation out and see what comes around for Gen 3. I know my wife and I would have jumped at getting two iPhones this go-around if they had the much rumored front facing camera with iChat AV built in.

I did answer "no" to both questions, but I'm a new customer, and no doubt, NO DOUBT will they bring out something BANGIN hot with Gen 3. They sort of half-assed the upgrade to Gen 2- and Apple's done this before (Example 1: The year they came out with iPod video, the next year they release the same thing with a bigger hardrive. Ex. 2: iPod nano 1st gen, 2nd gen being reasonably the same except for cosmetic changes.) Of course, that's sort of a good strategy, because they can't release something totally new and different each year.
Which is why I'm going to upgrade, come Gen 3. Video Chat sounds realllly good right now.

 

[PCMacUser]

If you have an original like me, you just have to ask yourself these two questions:
1) Do I REALLY need 3G speeds for internet/data?
2) Do I REALLY need the GPS feature in Google Maps?

I think all of the Apple fans here need to ask themselves 'Do I really need an iPhone?'.

'Apple' people will generally buy anything if it comes in a box with the Apple logo on it. Even an empty box.

Stop being suckers everyone!