CVS Stores Reportedly Disabling NFC to Shut Down Apple Pay and Google Wallet

tmiw said:
BTW, CVS may have turned NFC back on, according to a commenter on this USA Today article. I don't know how true that is, so someone will need to confirm.

However, I do understand why somewhere that doesn't get tourists would do that. 99% of US cards will be chip and signature so they might think that it's not really necessary to have the terminal somewhere a customer can access. Airports don't really have an excuse though.
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It's insane that an airport duty free shop would even consider refusing foreign credit cards.
 
tmiw said:
BTW, CVS may have turned NFC back on, according to a commenter on this USA Today article. I don't know how true that is, so someone will need to confirm.



However, I do understand why somewhere that doesn't get tourists would do that. 99% of US cards will be chip and signature so they might think that it's not really necessary to have the terminal somewhere a customer can access. Airports don't really have an excuse though.
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Also debit cards are Chip and PIN (judging by that BofA chip debit I have that they just came out with) am I not allowed to use that either? I swear trusting store managers to do their job seems like the hardest thing to do. Debit will always be PIN priority in the US.
 
dontwalkhand said:
Also debit cards are Chip and PIN (judging by that BofA chip debit I have that they just came out with) am I not allowed to use that either? I swear trusting store managers to do their job seems like the hardest thing to do. Debit will always be PIN priority in the US.
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Debit cards are PIN priority only if they get run as debit. The Visa part of the card has signature first, if it's the same as my Charles Schwab debit card.
 
ZCT said:
In all honesty the vast majority of cards issued in America that have a chip are Chip and Signature not Chip and PIN.

A true Chip and PIN has a six digit PIN, and is the type of card you can easily use all over the world. A Chip and Signature card has far less utility abroad, and is about useless on automated machines like you might see in a subway station or train station for example.

In any case, as a lover of technology and travel, I wish America would keep up with the rest of the world. Perhaps even start using the metric system like everyone else!
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We have 4 digit PINs in the UK, however I believe the specification is between 4 and 8 digits.
 
ZCT said:
In all honesty the vast majority of cards issued in America that have a chip are Chip and Signature not Chip and PIN.



A true Chip and PIN has a six digit PIN, and is the type of card you can easily use all over the world. A Chip and Signature card has far less utility abroad, and is about useless on automated machines like you might see in a subway station or train station for example.



In any case, as a lover of technology and travel, I wish America would keep up with the rest of the world. Perhaps even start using the metric system like everyone else!
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I agree generally. However I was surprised to have my Chip and Signature BoA card work in a subway in Europe and at a gas station in Canada, without a signature. No, I didn't use the mag swipe. At restaurants I had to sign.

Also saw a foreign visitor unable to use their euro Visa card (Chip and Pin and mag strip) in a NYC train station. Machine asked for Zip Code and that didn't fly.
 
JoeTomasone said:
The MCX members are in a pretty tough pickle right now.



They hate credit card fees, but absolutely depend on credit cards as they make up the vast majority of payments in their stores (and obviously online). They don't want to pay the fees, but want the customers and the sales revenue, and that means taking credit cards.



Customers, meanwhile, overwhelmingly prefer to pay with credit or debit cards, since they have consumer protections, physical theft protections (a card can be deactivated, cash cannot!), and you don't have to worry about not carrying enough cash (or too much cash) when you shop.



So what's a retailer to do? There's only one way to give consumers the cashless aspects of payment they demand while not paying fees, and that's with bank account debits (ACH). Of course, there is no consumer-friendly mechanism to do that at point-of-sale... So they had to create one. Hence CurrentC.



However, CurrentC really only has a chance to work if people are not using something based on credit cards.. Hence the exclusivity clause that prevents CVS, Rite-Aid, et al from accepting other mobile payment systems. Presumably Google Wallet adoption was so low that its use fell under the radar - since they looked like normal credit card transactions.



However, Apple Pay arrived with such media hype and buzz that they had to pay attention to it, and when they saw reports that it was working in MCX member stores, well, they pushed the big red panic button. They know that with Apple and the big three card processors behind it that it has a very substantial probability of success, and that would kill CurrentC dead.



They also have to contend with two big possible ramifications, however unlikely they may or may not be:



1. Apple and/or Google remove the CurrentC app. CurrentC is then quickly dead.



2. MC/Visa/Amex decide to either not renew their credit card acceptance agreements with those merchants, in which case they have a serious, major, and immediate problem - or they simply twist the knife in a bit and hike their transaction fees as punishment.





I almost feel sorry for CVS and Rite Aid, since they are taking the bullet for the rest of the MCX team and really appear to have no recourse. However, since Meijer is both an Apple Pay partner AND an MCX member, maybe there is a way out for these retailers after all...
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Good summary
 
viewfly said:
I agree generally. However I was surprised to have my Chip and Signature BoA card work in a subway in Europe and at a gas station in Canada, without a signature. No, I didn't use the mag swipe. At restaurants I had to sign.

Also saw a foreign visitor unable to use their euro Visa card (Chip and Pin and mag strip) in a NYC train station. Machine asked for Zip Code and that didn't fly.
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They're supposed to enter "00000" or "99999" as instructed by their card providers. They also can go to Walmart ;).

The real reason why your C&S is working fine in Europe now is due to a similar Visa and Mc Requirement where they're working to update those European machines to accept C&S cards, just as how we have to take their Chip & PIN cards here. Example: At Walmart if you were to insert a Chip & PIN card, the machine will prompt for a PIN, because it's on the CVM, or Cardholder Verification Method, for that card. Visa and MC are doubling down on correct CVM enforcement, so theoretically a machine will always listen to the CVMs on the card, so a US CARD that is C&S, should work everywhere, and vice versa. This explains the trouble of that airport shop mentioned earlier, the machine probably asks for a PIN, but the lame clerks instead of handing the machine to the customer, puts up a handwritten sign banning Chip & PIN cards, which is against the merchant agreement.

If merchants listened to their agreements more, than there shouldn't be any issues regarding using "a UK card" in the US, etc. solution? Report these ******* merchants who must not like money. It is in their agreement to take any card with the Visa or Mc Logo, regardless of stripe, Chip and PIN, or Chip & Sig. Sadly nothing in there for NFC yet, I hope they require NFC SOON in the US, like they do Chip and PIN/Sig.
 
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dontwalkhand said:
They're supposed to enter "00000" or "99999" as instructed by their card providers. They also can go to Walmart ;).

The real reason why your C&S is working fine in Europe now is due to a similar Visa and Mc Requirement where they're working to update those European machines to accept C&S cards, just as how we have to take their Chip & PIN cards here. Example: At Walmart if you were to insert a Chip & PIN card, the machine will prompt for a PIN, because it's on the CVM, or Cardholder Verification Method, for that card. Visa and MC are doubling down on correct CVM enforcement, so theoretically a machine will always listen to the CVMs on the card, so a US CARD that is C&S, should work everywhere, and vice versa. This explains the trouble of that airport shop mentioned earlier, the machine probably asks for a PIN, but the lame clerks instead of handing the machine to the customer, puts up a handwritten sign banning Chip & PIN cards, which is against the merchant agreement.

If merchants listened to their agreements more, than there shouldn't be any issues regarding using "a UK card" in the US, etc. solution? Report these ******* merchants who must not like money. It is in their agreement to take any card with the Visa or Mc Logo, regardless of stripe, Chip and PIN, or Chip & Sig. Sadly nothing in there for NFC yet, I hope they require NFC SOON in the US, like they do Chip and PIN/Sig.
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Makes me wonder why Visa forced other countries to enforce the CVM correctly (which is good, don't get me wrong) instead of pushing to get cards in the US issued with PINs.
 
JoeTomasone said:
1. Apple and/or Google remove the CurrentC app. CurrentC is then quickly dead.
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And all of a sudden the DOJ starts looking at Google and Apple and reviewing Section II of the Sherman Act.

JoeTomasone said:
2. MC/Visa/Amex decide to either not renew their credit card acceptance agreements with those merchants, in which case they have a serious, major, and immediate problem - or they simply twist the knife in a bit and hike their transaction fees as punishment.
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Now we are getting into Clayton Act territory too.
 
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viewfly said:
I agree generally. However I was surprised to have my Chip and Signature BoA card work in a subway in Europe and at a gas station in Canada, without a signature. No, I didn't use the mag swipe. At restaurants I had to sign.

Also saw a foreign visitor unable to use their euro Visa card (Chip and Pin and mag strip) in a NYC train station. Machine asked for Zip Code and that didn't fly.
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Subway should be the same as any other restaurant, the reason you didn't have to sign was probably because it was a small purchase - they're starting to implement that waiver in Europe too.
 
markie said:
Subway should be the same as any other restaurant, the reason you didn't have to sign was probably because it was a small purchase - they're starting to implement that waiver in Europe too.
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More likely the reason he didn't have to sign was he used pay at pump for the fuel and a ticket vending machine in the subway.
 
cjmillsnun said:
More likely the reason he didn't have to sign was he used pay at pump for the fuel and a ticket vending machine in the subway.
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Subway is a restaurant, underground trains are never called subways in Europe (a term that refers exclusively to pedestrian subways).
 
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