CVS Stores Reportedly Disabling NFC to Shut Down Apple Pay and Google Wallet

[dontwalkhand]

Subway is a restaurant, underground trains are never called subways in Europe (a term that refers exclusively to pedestrian subways).

He is from America, he could either mean the sandwich store, or the underground train, I am leaning towards train since he is talking about using a C&S card and being surprised it works, when the sandwich store would work with C&S anyway, because there is a cashier to allow you to sign the receipt when swiping the card.

 

[BruiserB]

CVS Stores Reportedly Disabling NFC to Shut Down Apple Pay and Google Wallet

You need to read up on the history of Aldi's split in Germany. It's a pretty crazy story, a disagreement between brothers over whether to sell cigarettes led to a multi-billion dollar business splitting.



Long story short, there are both Aldi branded stores and Trader Joes branded stores in the US and they are owned by opposite sides of the split. I don't shop there, but I'm pretty sure that the Aldi a couple miles from my house does not accept credit cards

The Aldi near me now accepts credit cards. They have this posted at their register:

 

[cjmillsnun]

Subway is a restaurant, underground trains are never called subways in Europe (a term that refers exclusively to pedestrian subways).

Subway is also an American term for an underground railway.

 

[AllieNeko]

Subway is also an American term for an underground railway.

But he said he was in Europe. The English word for an underground railway in Europe varies but is never subway. Underground, tube (UK ONLY), and metro are most common. Thus why I thought the sandwich shop. But yes he probably did mean train tickets looking back.

 

[SactoGuy18]

In the end, I think what may cause companies to bail from CurrentC is the very possibility that Apple may add loyalty card and refillable prepaid payment card support to Apple Pay, possibly as early as the iOS 8.2 update (my guess: will be released in February 2015 when both the Apple Watch and the so-called iPad Pro ships).

If my guess is correct, that could be VERY enticing to many retailers, and we'll see support for CurrentC dry up in no time flat.

 

[mrcobra92]

Who ever said it has been turned back on at CVS is a big fat liar! Does not work at all at two different locations in my area!

 

[JoeTomasone]

And all of a sudden the DOJ starts looking at Google and Apple and reviewing Section II of the Sherman Act.

Now we are getting into Clayton Act territory too.

Not familiar with them.. Will have to look them up.

 

[viewfly]

Subway is a restaurant, underground trains are never called subways in Europe (a term that refers exclusively to pedestrian subways).

He is from America, he could either mean the sandwich store, or the underground train, I am leaning towards train since he is talking about using a C&S card and being surprised it works, when the sandwich store would work with C&S anyway, because there is a cashier to allow you to sign the receipt when swiping the card.

No subway the train as in Paris Metro, the London Underground or Tube. Not sure what Germany uses.

I bet they have something worked out so that a pin is not necessary for these purchases. I hope so.

 

[JulesJam]

Not familiar with them.. Will have to look them up.

They are anti-trust laws. The hypothetical situations you were posting about would run afoul of the anti-trust laws.

Apple, Google, MC/VISA employ too many lawyers and outside counsel to engage in anti-competitive behavior. So those hypotheticals you posted aren't ever going to happen.

 

[ZCT]

I agree generally. However I was surprised to have my Chip and Signature BoA card work in a subway in Europe and at a gas station in Canada, without a signature. No, I didn't use the mag swipe. At restaurants I had to sign.

Also saw a foreign visitor unable to use their euro Visa card (Chip and Pin and mag strip) in a NYC train station. Machine asked for Zip Code and that didn't fly.

None of that really alters the fact that in some 84 countries around the world they have had a superior system for credit cards for over ten years.

While we in America may be pleased that our cards get accepted, if we had adopted this superior and more advanced technology a decade ago, we wouldn't have to get treated like second rate citizens when we travel.

We put a man on the moon, yet now we cling to our VHS tape glued to our credit cards and the obsolete Imperial system. It's pretty sad.

 

[dontwalkhand]

None of that really alters the fact that in some 84 countries around the world they have had a superior system for credit cards for over ten years.

While we in America may be pleased that our cards get accepted, if we had adopted this superior and more advanced technology a decade ago, we wouldn't have to get treated like second rate citizens when we travel.

We put a man on the moon, yet now we cling to our VHS tape glued to our credit cards and the obsolete Imperial system. It's pretty sad.

I wouldn't say it's all too high tech, remember the Chip and PIN system was invented originally because they process transactions offline due to the amount of fraud the mag stripe for them caused. We process and continue to process transactions online. Currently to this day they process PayPass NFC transactions offline, but we process all PayPass and NFC, and now Apple Pay all online. I don't like the idea of it not reflecting your account until 3 days later- that to me isn't high tech, no matter how high tech the card itself is.

Our Chip & PIN, and Chip & Sig, as well as NFC transactions will continue the tradition of being processed online- thank god.

 

[tmiw]

None of that really alters the fact that in some 84 countries around the world they have had a superior system for credit cards for over ten years.

While we in America may be pleased that our cards get accepted, if we had adopted this superior and more advanced technology a decade ago, we wouldn't have to get treated like second rate citizens when we travel.

We put a man on the moon, yet now we cling to our VHS tape glued to our credit cards and the obsolete Imperial system. It's pretty sad.

We're going to leapfrog contact chip cards except as a fallback. Recent breaches have thoroughly discredited the swipe to the point where customers prefer security almost all else. Apple came out with the right product at the right time and it's already bringing up the rest of the industry: AMEX brought back contactless chip cards recently and Google Wallet's finally gotten some good promotion. In a couple of years most people won't even be dipping the chip--they'll tap the card or phone.

 

[ZCT]

I wouldn't say it's all too high tech, remember the Chip and PIN system was invented originally because they process transactions offline due to the amount of fraud the mag stripe for them caused. We process and continue to process transactions online. Currently to this day they process PayPass NFC transactions offline, but we process all PayPass and NFC, and now Apple Pay all online. I don't like the idea of it not reflecting your account until 3 days later- that to me isn't high tech, no matter how high tech the card itself is.

Our Chip & PIN, and Chip & Sig, as well as NFC transactions will continue the tradition of being processed online- thank god.

I think you are making a sweeping generalization as how 'they' process their transactions. Further we can hardly pat ourselves on the back when the reality is that the vast majority of Americans still carry non-chip cards.

You talk about 'Our' Chip & PIN cards, and I can tell you that I shopped for that recently, and there are little to no options on that front. The majority of chip cards here in the US are chip and signature cards, a different and inferior, less compatible technology.

 

[tmiw]

I think you are making a sweeping generalization as how 'they' process their transactions. Further we can hardly pat ourselves on the back when the reality is that the vast majority of Americans still carry non-chip cards.

You talk about 'Our' Chip & PIN cards, and I can tell you that I shopped for that recently, and there are little to no options on that front. The majority of chip cards here in the US are chip and signature cards, a different and inferior, less compatible technology.

BTW, we're not the only country that's chip and signature. A fair number of Latin American and Asian countries are too and there seem to be no complaints from them.

 

[dontwalkhand]

We're going to leapfrog contact chip cards except as a fallback. Recent breaches have thoroughly discredited the swipe to the point where customers prefer security almost all else. Apple came out with the right product at the right time and it's already bringing up the rest of the industry: AMEX brought back contactless chip cards recently and Google Wallet's finally gotten some good promotion. In a couple of years most people won't even be dipping the chip--they'll tap the card or phone.

Has anyone seen now long a Chip & PIN transaction takes at a local US Walmart? Compare that to tapping. This alone is going to popularize NFC. Imagine if every transaction in a McD's Drive through took as long as a Walmart Chip & PIN transaction.

 

[ZCT]

We're going to leapfrog contact chip cards except as a fallback. Recent breaches have thoroughly discredited the swipe to the point where customers prefer security almost all else. Apple came out with the right product at the right time and it's already bringing up the rest of the industry: AMEX brought back contactless chip cards recently and Google Wallet's finally gotten some good promotion. In a couple of years most people won't even be dipping the chip--they'll tap the card or phone.

That's great. Let's hope that's the case.

Meanwhile when I visit London in a few weeks, I'll have to be mindful of the fact that even my American credit card with a chip in it will have severe restrictions on it because America has chosen to be stubborn and slow to try new technology.

Even if Apple Pay is the answer, we in America (looking at you CVS and RiteAid) are choosing to actually try and hobble the new platform, for reasons that are nothing more than greed, and trying to bully (no innovate) a path to mainstream.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I think you are making a sweeping generalization as how 'they' process their transactions. Further we can hardly pat ourselves on the back when the reality is that the vast majority of Americans still carry non-chip cards.

You talk about 'Our' Chip & PIN cards, and I can tell you that I shopped for that recently, and there are little to no options on that front. The majority of chip cards here in the US are chip and signature cards, a different and inferior, less compatible technology.

You can get a Chip & PIN if you wanted, you just have to go for a bank that issues it, in fact there was a list somewhere I have to find. Most banks however will be issuing Chip & Signature with future PIN implementation.

We may never use it if NFC becomes prevalent enough, except as a fallback if the NFC reader is broken, etc. NFC is just as secure and since its processed online, the fraud protection is there.

 

[tmiw]

Has anyone seen now long a Chip & PIN transaction takes at a local US Walmart? Compare that to tapping. This alone is going to popularize NFC. Imagine if every transaction in a McD's Drive through took as long as a Walmart Chip & PIN transaction.

I'm pretty sure Walmart's a bit wonky. It is possible for chip transactions to be incredibly fast. One 7-11 I went to earlier this year in Brisbane comes to mind.

That's great. Let's hope that's the case.

Meanwhile when I visit London in a few weeks, I'll have to be mindful of the fact that even my American credit card with a chip in it will have severe restrictions on it because America has chosen to be stubborn and slow to try new technology.

Even if Apple Pay is the answer, we in America (looking at you CVS and RiteAid) are choosing to actually try and hobble the new platform, for reasons that are nothing more than greed, and trying to bully (no innovate) a path to mainstream.

Severe restrictions? All places with a manned attendant are required to accept chip and signature. That's hardly "severe".

 

[ZCT]

BTW, we're not the only country that's chip and signature. A fair number of Latin American and Asian countries are too and there seem to be no complaints from them.

Are we now going to sink so low as to claim that America is great because we are almost as good as some Latin American and Asian countries?

Jeez. Way to set the bar low.

The point is, we should have been addressing this issue a DECADE AGO! Like they all were. Not thinking now what to do.

It's like we waited until our Space Shuttle had to be retired until we started thinking about a new one. In the meantime we have to suck up to Russia to borrow their 1960s rockets to get to space, which is pretty lame.

----------

Severe restrictions? All places with a manned attendant are required to accept chip and signature. That's hardly "severe".

That's a pretty bold claim for the laws and rules affecting 84 countries. I'm not sure you be so sure about that.

Of the three premium credit cards and one corporate card I hold only one has a chip in it. Rendering the rest just about useless for travel.

So yeah, when I have to rely on one credit card, and the hope that nothing will happen with it, and there will be a 'manned attendant' any time I use it, I'd still call it severe.

Actually scratch that, I'd call it sad. While counties like the one I am about to visit had this crap sorted a decade ago, the fact that we are only coming to terms with it now is pathetic.

 

[tmiw]

Are we now going to sink so low as to claim that America is great because we are almost as good as some Latin American and Asian countries?

Jeez. Way to set the bar low.

The point is, we should have been addressing this issue a DECADE AGO! Like they all were. Not thinking now what to do.

It's like we waited until our Space Shuttle had to be retired until we started thinking about a new one. In the meantime we have to suck up to Russia to borrow their 1960s rockets to get to space, which is pretty lame.

Playing the "what if" game doesn't help anyone. The point is, something is being done about it now. In the long run, the CVM list on the card probably won't even matter if things work out the way that I'm thinking.

Oh, and one advantage of being last is that we'll probably learn from other countries' mistakes. Like this doozy of a mistake with UK chip cards that was reported on today: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/chip-n-pin-foreign-currency-vulnerability/

 

[ZCT]

Playing the "what if" game doesn't help anyone. The point is, something is being done about it now. In the long run, the CVM list on the card probably won't even matter if things work out the way that I'm thinking.

Oh, and one advantage of being last is that we'll probably learn from other countries' mistakes. Like this doozy of a mistake with UK chip cards that was reported on today: http://www.wired.com/2014/11/chip-n-pin-foreign-currency-vulnerability/

You are now seriously suggesting that we in America are wisely sitting on our butts for a decade to evaluate the other countries before making a measured decision? Try telling that to the victims of the Target debacle or any of the other numerous recent examples.

No the reality was nothing quite so regal. Here in America it just came down to money. No one wanted to pay to roll out the new technology and risk consumers being confused by it and spending less money. That's the reality.

----------

You can get a Chip & PIN if you wanted, you just have to go for a bank that issues it, in fact there was a list somewhere I have to find. Most banks however will be issuing Chip & Signature with future PIN implementation.

We may never use it if NFC becomes prevalent enough, except as a fallback if the NFC reader is broken, etc. NFC is just as secure and since its processed online, the fraud protection is there.

That's total nonsense.

As part of my preparation for a trip to England, I contact each of my mainstream and premium credit cards and they were no-go on chip and PIN. I did plenty of research online, and found a tiny handful of very obscure providers giving genuine chip and PIN options that would actually work internationally.

I'd say that your claim that 'most' banks offer chip and signature, is not true. Some do, but most don't. And future implementation of chip and PIN that has been mainstream in the UK since 2004, is not really going to help me on my upcoming trip.

 

[tmiw]

That's a pretty bold claim for the laws and rules affecting 84 countries. I'm not sure you be so sure about that.

Of the three premium credit cards and one corporate card I hold only one has a chip in it. Rendering the rest just about useless for travel.

So yeah, when I have to rely on one credit card, and the hope that nothing will happen with it, and there will be a 'manned attendant' any time I use it, I'd still call it severe.

Actually scratch that, I'd call it sad. While counties like the one I am about to visit had this crap sorted a decade ago, the fact that we are only coming to terms with it now is pathetic.

Almost all of the major banks offer chip cards now. I got my BoA and AMEX cards switched over just by calling them, and this was in January 2014. My BoA corporate charge card (which I got right after that Australia trip) also has a chip in it. Kiosks and gas stations are also a pretty rare use case for the average traveler, but there are cards available with a PIN backup.

Here, read this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...ty-experiences-q-chip-pin-chip-signature.html (along with this direct link to a spreadsheet listing the chip cards currently offered). If your card companies won't issue you chip cards, cancel them and get new ones. Free market, etc.

BTW, the chip and signature acceptance requirement, at least in the UK, is required by law due to it being possible to still be issued a chip and signature card there if you have a disability preventing you from using PIN. In most other countries, it's part of the merchant agreement.

----------

You are now seriously suggesting that we in America are wisely sitting on our butts for a decade to evaluate the other countries before making a measured decision? Try telling that to the victims of the Target debacle or any of the other numerous recent examples.

No the reality was nothing quite so regal. Here in America it just came down to money. No one wanted to pay to roll out the new technology and risk consumers being confused by it and spending less money. That's the reality.

Chip cards were in the works before Target. Target just made it happen faster. BTW, there are somewhere around 9 million merchants in the US. I'd say not rushing into it was a good thing.

 

[dontwalkhand]

You are now seriously suggesting that we in America are wisely sitting on our butts for a decade to evaluate the other countries before making a measured decision? Try telling that to the victims of the Target debacle or any of the other numerous recent examples.

No the reality was nothing quite so regal. Here in America it just came down to money. No one wanted to pay to roll out the new technology and risk consumers being confused by it and spending less money. That's the reality.

----------



That's total nonsense.

As part of my preparation for a trip to England, I contact each of my mainstream and premium credit cards and they were no-go on chip and PIN. I did plenty of research online, and found a tiny handful of very obscure providers giving genuine chip and PIN options that would actually work internationally.

I'd say that your claim that 'most' banks offer chip and signature, is not true. Some do, but most don't. And future implementation of chip and PIN that has been mainstream in the UK since 2004, is not really going to help me on my upcoming trip.

In all reality you'll be fine in the UK, and worried about nothing. I went there with mag stripe only cards, and I had no trouble at all.

Also Visa and MasterCard have mandated that those kiosks you complain about are required to listen to the CVMs on EVERY card, which means yes, your Chip & Sig will work fine. There are also numerous threads on FlyerTalk confirming that C&S cards have recently started to work just fine in these unmanned kiosks.

By the way; the kiosks and card terminals still have a regular MSR in them too, because of a few reasons:
-Prepaid gift cards are not Chip & PIN, because of their nature it's too expensive.
-Store gift cards
-Fallback if the chip is broken, the machine will still read the mag stripe.

If you really are concerned about C&S, insert the chip the wrong way a few times, and the machine will say "Swipe Card"- or "Insert and remove card quickly"- forcing the machine to do a mag stripe fallback.

Also side note, if you have your cards in Apple Pay, it works internationally with US cards. Use that to save some trouble.

 

[tmiw]

In all reality you'll be fine in the UK, and worried about nothing. I went there with mag stripe only cards, and I had no trouble at all.

Also Visa and MasterCard have mandated that those kiosks you complain about are required to listen to the CVMs on EVERY card, which means yes, your Chip & Sig will work fine. There are also numerous threads on FlyerTalk confirming that C&S cards have recently started to work just fine in these unmanned kiosks.

By the way; the kiosks and card terminals still have a regular MSR in them too, because of a few reasons:
-Prepaid gift cards are not Chip & PIN, because of their nature it's too expensive.
-Store gift cards
-Fallback if the chip is broken, the machine will still read the mag stripe.

If you really are concerned about C&S, insert the chip the wrong way a few times, and the machine will say "Swipe Card"- or "Insert and remove card quickly"- forcing the machine to do a mag stripe fallback.

Also side note, if you have your cards in Apple Pay, it works internationally with US cards. Use that to save some trouble.

Just a nitpick: I think they're supposed to select "no CVM" if there's no PIN, which is pretty much the same thing since all cards have "no CVM" as an option.

 

[viewfly]

None of that really alters the fact that in some 84 countries around the world they have had a superior system for credit cards for over ten years.



While we in America may be pleased that our cards get accepted, if we had adopted this superior and more advanced technology a decade ago, we wouldn't have to get treated like second rate citizens when we travel.



We put a man on the moon, yet now we cling to our VHS tape glued to our credit cards and the obsolete Imperial system. It's pretty sad.

Whoa. Back up a little. I'm in favor of C&P and C&S too. But until 2012, I had no problems with US mag cards while traveling. Asia through Europe.

10+ years ago European banks CC couldn't talk to each other among different countries and/or fraud was too high. So the Chip card was invented to solve this. And they were not CC cards but debit. Not debit from your checking but money had to be placed on them. Not so advanced.

For Americans only the AMEX was accepted everywhere internationally. Not so Visa or MC.

So its not like they have been 10 years ahead of us from the get go. Imagine not be able to use you NY visa in Virginia or pre planning your how much you will spend on your card?

But in 2012 overseas metro stations and some stores were making mag stripe difficult. So something had to be done. And in many tests US consumers found the PIN card a pain.

Finally we are coming around but maybe Apple Pay or the like will supersede that.