CVS Stores Reportedly Disabling NFC to Shut Down Apple Pay and Google Wallet

[jomo25]

Done:

"I am exceptionally disappointed by your decision to intentionally disable NFC transactions from Apple Pay and Google Wallet in your stores, which was apparently done in favor of CurrentC, which is a far less secure payment technology.

As soon as my prescriptions have been successfully transferred to Walgreens, I will be cancelling my ExtraCare card and will no longer patronize any CVS. I should note that I will happily drive past the local CVS in order to patronize a store who cares more about my financial security than CVS and the rest of the MCX member merchants do."

Done also:

I have long been a CVS customer. My family's prescriptions are with you and CVS' ExtraCare card is the ONLY reward card I have attached to my keychain. (I even cut it down to make it smaller. All my others I have on a separate keychain of reward cards that my wife keeps in her purse.)

I have used my NFC-based credit card at CVS many times. Thus I was very excited when Apple Pay was announced as I knew I'd be able to use it to make purchases at CVS now instead, even though CVS was not a named partner of Apple Pay. I believe the security mechanisms Apple Pay presents are very robust. And having been among the many impacted by the Target breach, I value security. And of course there is the convenience of Apple Pay.

Your decision to block Apple Pay (and all NFC transactions with it) will lead me to move all my prescriptions and stop frequenting your stores. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, and I will not trust my bank info with MCX's cloud-based solution.

Good bye.

 

[cmaier]

Wow reading comprehension is terrible

1. The stores are trying to cut out VISA and MC fees. They are trying to start their own DIRECT payment system to save the couple percent points.

2. Apple gets no money from stores, only small pct from VISA and MC

3 VISA and MC give up the cash to Apple cuz the Apple solution is projected to save them on the fraud expenses

4. Someonr said CVS is a dying brand? Lol you poor fool. They are a MONSTER and only growing..

5. The whole thing here is the stores trying to cut out VISA and MC - but they clearly will fail

6. Apple Pay got put in the middle almost by accident- the stores had this system in the works.


Thanks
Bye

Actually, the issuing banks pay apple. Not visa or MasterCard.

 

[ptb42]

This isn't a battle between CurrentC and Apple Pay. This is a battle between MC/Visa/AMEX and the merchants who are trying to get around paying cc fees. Apple is just a pawn (bishop, knight) in this battle.

That's a good point, and I wonder if it is going to come down to throw-down between them.

I wonder what would happen if MC/Amex/VISA were to slip a clause into the merchant agreement, making the merchant liable for subsequent fraud if they institute any measures designed to defeat the use of EMVCo's tokenization standard?

Note that I didn't write "Pay". EMVCo's tokenization is the standard implemented by Apple. And, they probably are only the first to do so: you can expect Android to follow suit soon.

Tokenization is designed to defeat the kind of large-scale breaches we have seen in the US in the past year. If a merchant intentionally defeats the use of it by consumers, then they should share responsibility for the consequences.

At the moment, only a small number of people are using it. But, as Apple iPhones are replaced, and Android phones get the same capability, a significant percentage of US consumers will have the ability to use it. If Apple and Android vendors can succinctly explain to consumers how it it actually protects them from fraud, merchants that block it will be left behind.

I went into a Target shortly after the breach was publicized last year. It was the height of the holiday shopping season, but the store was nearly deserted. We walked right up to a register (and paid cash!), and was amazed at how many employees were just standing around.

Consumers understand the hassle caused by credit card fraud, even if they are protected from liability. Once they realize that using Pay (or the Android equivalent) is safer than a physical credit or debit card, they'll start demanding it.

 

[DrMotownMac]

Do you have a clinical reason to advise Walgreens over competitors? Some patients may have insurance coverage that makes your retailer of choice a financial hardship.

No, I don't have a "clinical reason," and I don't really "advise Walgreens." I just tell my patients that Walgreens is just up the road from my office, so if they'd like, I can e-prescribe their medication to the store, so it will be there waiting for them after they leave my office. If they say they prefer to go to CVS, Rite-Aid, Costco, Sam's Club, Target, Wal-Mart, or whatever, I say, "Okay, no problem."

In other words, I don't ACTUALLY advise anything...I just throw it out there as an easy, nearby and convenient solution. Also, I liked telling CVS that!

 

[mpavilion]

Sent this to MCX via info@mcx.com

(Found that address at www.mcx.com)

I find your move to coerce all of your member companies to refuse ApplePay to be very much anti-consumer. I would have also been willing to evaluate your product when it goes live next year. However this move is making me strongly reconsider any support of the consortium of companies that make up MCX.

It appears that Target's RedCard may actually be one of your first initiatives. I will be contacting Target shortly to cancel my RedCard and I will let them know why.

I am all for competition, and I think the consumer should be able to make their own choice. MCX mandating that CVS and RiteAid disable all NFC payments because of ApplePay's likely high uptake rate is anti consumer choice. So I will make my choice against your product and consortium of companies before even evaluating your product.

Regards,

BruiserB

Sent from my iPhone

Lol -- did you really sign it "BruiserB"??

 

[doelcm82]

I want Apple and Google to ram it down their throats when they come crawling back too. Like "Oh your back! Well the fee is up by 20cents for late adopting merchants! We know you don't have a choice so just bend over already before you loose anymore customers...."

Apple can't do that. They get paid by the bank that issues the card, not by the merchant. Apple can't raise the amount for specific merchants. They don't even get to know which merchant you are shopping at. That's between you and your credit card's bank.

 

[RockSpider]

Really, nobody wants to anymore... have you read the discussions?

The correct wording would be "Apple fanboys with iPhone 6 don't want to anymore because they will do anything to make sure Apple makes more money."

Yeah I know what I should have said, I have to be careful here I'm on a short leash, I can't say what you say.

 

[jpn]

CurrentC is even worse than I thought

http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/

thanks for this info. it was great to see someone post whats really happening.

but i still have one question:

apple pay's money trail (money source) is clearly controllable by the user who can either set a default card (can be a credit card or a debit card), or, can actively chose which card (can be a credit card or a debit card) to pay with.
in apple pay case the money source is clear: its either the credit card or your bank account through direct debit.

with CurrentC the Merchants Exchange is said to try to get away from paying the credit card companies' 2% to 3% fees that as a merchant they are made to pay.
so, who/what is the actual paying entity? i assume its not a credit card like visa or master card, so is Merchants Exchange acting as the financial institution and actually paying the merchant, and then later your bank account is debited by Merchant Exchange maybe 1 time per month?
how does this work?

thanks for clarity.

i think that Q codes are so 2005. but that part of it can be easily changed to NFC at some time in the future.

apple could do something amazing like: simply allowing Merchant Exchange payment to be allowed. this would give the consumer total control.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Really, nobody wants to anymore... have you read the discussions?

The correct wording would be "Apple fanboys with iPhone 6 don't want to anymore because they will do anything to make sure Apple makes more money."

You have absolutely zero intention of understanding this issue, don't you?

Have you read anything about CurrentC? Do you understand that EVERY form of NFC payment (including Google Wallet) will be disabled if MCX merchants get their way?

Why can't you and the other detractors in this thread see this issue for what it is instead of trying to use it as yet another vehicle to bash anybody who dares to support Apple?

This issue is not about Apple, and that's what so many of us have been trying to say over the past 1200+ posts. And yet you and many others choose to ignore that and simply harp on the jerks that advocate loading up shopping carts with no intention of paying for them, in an attempt to make Apple the face of this debate. You people are willfully ignoring the implications of MCX's desires, and at best, only talk about them whenever bringing up Apple's own anti-consumer issues. As if somehow supporting a 30+ year old company that has done bad things in the past precludes you from ever talking about bad things another company is doing.

This is about the future of mobile payments. A future that was unquestionably bright before MCX-led retailers began to fight it. Maybe it all works itself out, maybe it doesn't.

Either way, it's about security and privacy, with a little bit of convenience sprinkled on top. Apple is a player in this debate, but it's not about Apple. So stop trying to bring the whole "fanboy" thing into play.

And with that, I'm done in this thread.

 

[cds585]

And, in these times, security can trump price, convenience, and product selection. I want to use Apple Pay for the security of it, not because it shaves 2 seconds off a check-out time.

And yes, in order to limit the amount of exposure that my credit card has out there - it's already had to be replaced due to Target - I will absolutely drive business towards merchants that support the security of Apple Pay. Android folks should be saying the exact same thing with respect to Google Wallet (which isn't as secure or as private, but is much better than swiping your card or giving MCX your bank account info...).

So this means you won't be using your credit card anywhere else, ever, now that Apple Pay is on the scene?

Seems to me security should be ubiquitous and not limited to just those with an iPhone 6 in the Apple ecosystem. And what about as new iPhones are released along with new versions of IOS and suddenly you can't use Apple Pay because your iPhone is too old? Look no further than what Apple did with the introduction of continuity. I don't think it's good for consumers or businesses for one company to be the gatekeeper of secure credit card transactions. The biggest stakeholders in this game with respect to security are the credit card companies. Won't the coming implementation of PIN and chip cards create a secure environment? If yes, then Apple Pay becomes just a convenience doesn't it, albeit secure? And if security is your biggest concern as you state, what difference does it make who's providing it?

 

[cmaier]

thanks for this info. it was great to see someone post whats really happening.

but i still have one question:

apple pay's money trail (money source) is clearly controllable by the user who can either set a default card (can be a credit card or a debit card), or, can actively chose which card (can be a credit card or a debit card) to pay with.
in apple pay case the money source is clear: its either the credit card or your bank account through direct debit.

with CurrentC the Merchants Exchange is said to try to get away from paying the credit card companies' 2% to 3% fees that as a merchant they are made to pay.
so, who/what is the actual paying entity? i assume its not a credit card like visa or master card, so is Merchants Exchange acting as the financial institution and actually paying the merchant, and then later your bank account is debited by Merchant Exchange maybe 1 time per month?
how does this work?

thanks for clarity.

i think that Q codes are so 2005. but that part of it can be easily changed to NFC at some time in the future.

apple could do something amazing like: simply allowing Merchant Exchange payment to be allowed. this would give the consumer total control.

It comes out of your checking account, like an ACH transaction.

 

[mantan]

That's a good point, and I wonder if it is going to come down to throw-down between them.

I wonder what would happen if MC/Amex/VISA were to slip a clause into the merchant agreement, making the merchant liable for subsequent fraud if they institute any measures designed to defeat the use of EMVCo's tokenization standard?

Note that I didn't write "Pay". EMVCo's tokenization is the standard implemented by Apple. And, they probably are only the first to do so: you can expect Android to follow suit soon.

Tokenization is designed to defeat the kind of large-scale breaches we have seen in the US in the past year. If a merchant intentionally defeats the use of it by consumers, then they should share responsibility for the consequences.

At the moment, only a small number of people are using it. But, as Apple iPhones are replaced, and Android phones get the same capability, a significant percentage of US consumers will have the ability to use it. If Apple and Android vendors can succinctly explain to consumers how it it actually protects them from fraud, merchants that block it will be left behind.

I went into a Target shortly after the breach was publicized last year. It was the height of the holiday shopping season, but the store was nearly deserted. We walked right up to a register (and paid cash!), and was amazed at how many employees were just standing around.

Consumers understand the hassle caused by credit card fraud, even if they are protected from liability. Once they realize that using Pay (or the Android equivalent) is safer than a physical credit or debit card, they'll start demanding it.

Which is why I think the best play if I was Visa/MC/AMEX....or even Apple would be to push the security issue. That has a LOT of traction right now. Playing up EMV, Apple Pay and other ways to make your information more secure while keeping customers addicted to credit/debit instead of cash/check/ACH is a good strategy. It appears you are looking out for the consumer (and just happening to get paid) than trying to line your pockets.

 

[flyinmac]

I don't think you understand how the world works. Also you speak horrible Canadian.

And another Apple Pay fanboy resorts to immaturity. Wow, you guys really know how to win one over. Immaturity, name calling, making fun of someone's nationality, cart stuffing, boycotting stores that you don't use anyway... yeah, I'm seeing the decision not to support Apple Pay as a very smart move. It keeps the idiots out of the stores and reduces headaches for their employees by sending the immature people to other stores.

 

[cmaier]

And another Apple Pay fanboy resorts to immaturity. Wow, you guys really know how to win one over. Immaturity, name calling, making fun of someone's nationality, cart stuffing, boycotting stores that you don't use anyway... yeah, I'm seeing the decision not to support Apple Pay as a very smart move. It keeps the idiots out of the stores and reduces headaches for their employees by sending the immature people to other stores.

Good example.

 

[osofast240sx]

Some fail to realize that the world doesn't revolve around Apple either.

It kinda does.

 

[flyinmac]

The only way to avoid credit card fees is not to take credit cards. I doubt that MCX merchants will stop honoring credit cards. In fact, I will use my credit card more often just to piss them off .... if I have to go their store.

Wow, the king of self defeating arguments. Congratulations.

 

[ptb42]

Now that is weird--Merchants just need the correct terminal with NFC to support the service, the guts of the operation are at the banks and card exchanges, so there must be other reason.

I didn't look to see if someone else replied, but in case no one did:

According to several reports about the MCX consortium, participation requires the merchant to not accept any other mobile-payment solution. Since Pay and Google Wallet appear to be no different than a contactless credit card (at least to the merchant point-of-sale terminal), all the merchant can do is disable NFC functionality altogether.

And if you wonder why a merchant would prefer MCX -- MCX doesn't support bank credit cards: it requires you to enroll the routing and account number for your checking account, and authorize them to withdraw from your account (and there is little or no protection from fraud).

So, the merchant only has to pay a small flat fee for an ACH transfer via MCX, instead of the 2-3% to the credit card transaction processing network (of which about 1.5% goes to the issuing bank).

It's all about the Benjamin's.

 

[SusanK]

No, I don't have a "clinical reason," and I don't really "advise Walgreens." I just tell my patients that Walgreens is just up the road from my office, so if they'd like, I can e-prescribe their medication to the store, so it will be there waiting for them after they leave my office. If they say they prefer to go to CVS, Rite-Aid, Costco, Sam's Club, Target, Wal-Mart, or whatever, I say, "Okay, no problem."

In other words, I don't ACTUALLY advise anything...I just throw it out there as an easy, nearby and convenient solution. Also, I liked telling CVS that!

Oh, Ok. That's cool.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Personally I could care less ... it's that sense of entitlement, when you can't, that causes me to upchuck.

So you do care, but could care less?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

 

[StyxMaker]

Correct. This is why Apple Pay is so poorly received by businesses, especially small businesses. Apple Pay is a handout to major credit card companies because it locks in their ridiculous fees and hurts businesses.



Sorry, I am on the side of small business over Apple and their 30% cut any day.

Walmart, Sears, Best Buy, RiteAid, CVS, you have a strange definition of small business.

 

[cds585]

I need to start using my regular Visa card more for items other prescriptions (I use a Health flex plan Visa for prescriptions).

So much for being concerned about credit card security eh?

 

[osofast240sx]

Another CurrentC

https://www.thelevelup.com

 

[powertoold]

This IS a battle between CurrentC and Apple.

CurrentC has been in development for a long time.

Apply Pay is the first real competitor, not Google Wallet.

That's why the chain stores are blocking Apple Pay to avoid having people get used to it and then disabling it early next year.

 

[mantan]

This IS a battle between CurrentC and Apple.

CurrentC has been in development for a long time.

Apply Pay is the first real competitor, not Google Wallet.

That's why the chain stores are blocking Apple Pay to avoid having people get used to it and then disabling it early next year.

No it's not. This is a battle between credit card companies and merchants. Apple Pay is a 'fly in the ointment' that has the potential for providing a more secure, convenient and anonymous way to process credit card payments. This makes the credit card companies very happy. This makes the MCX merchants concerned.

 

[Mukist]

Wow, the king of self defeating arguments. Congratulations.

Dude, you have got to be the single biggest Troll I have ever seen in a forum, go outside and play ball or something.