CVS Stores Reportedly Disabling NFC to Shut Down Apple Pay and Google Wallet

[avanpelt]

Who owns the NFC terminals that Rite Aid and CVS have installed? Do the merchants themselves own the equipment or does another entity own the equipment?

If another entity owns the equipment, I could envision that entity telling Rite Aid and CVS to turn on the full functionality of the terminals or else they will have the terminals removed from their stores.

I'm sure there are plenty of other merchants out there who would gladly use that equipment to start taking NFC payments.

 

[itguy06]

You also forget that majority of phones sold today (Android) are NFC capable.

Don't forget not every Android phone supports NFC. The majority of low to mid end phones do not support it.

 

[tkatz]

I know I'm in the minority but.... I only use cash period and never any other form of payment, don't even have a debit card. Cash is king. I only accept cash as payment as well.

So either you inherited an insanely large amount of money that you store under your bed (earning no interest) and bought your house and vehicle in cash, or going to work involves riding your skateboard down your parents driveway to your lemonade stand.. ?

We're trying to come up with silly comments, right?

 

[caesarp]

If it was just that they could have done like a lot of small businesses are doing: require minimum purchases before accepting cards. They probably could have spun it reasonably well in the media too. Instead they're throwing a temper tantrum and causing people to see what a security nightmare CurrentC actually is.

Well it's that and they want our data.

----------

Pretty much this. I never thought there would be so much outrage but I agree with everyone. I think you're gonna see Apple Pay really take off.

Well there would not have been outrage had CVS or rite aid never accepted NFC payments. But to claim we now can't do it, after actually doing it, is what gets everyone's goat.

 

[StyxMaker]

It's so funny ready all the tin hat brigade worried about mining credit card data.



All they see is a card number and what you buy. Nothing else, no name or other details. The paranoia is incredible.



If you don't want companies knowing everything you buy don't have store cards.

I don't use store cards and when I upgrade to the 6 I'll give a preference to places where I can use it for additional security and privacy.

 

[caesarp]

I was skeptical, too. Until I saw some screenshots from the CurrentC app.

I says it may collect some info protected by HIPPA. It wasn't specific, and I suspect it might be data on certain things you buy with the app, like perhaps prescriptions?

I don't think my credit card receipts identify the specific medication. But, CurrentC might.

CrappyC aalso wants your Social Security number and drivers license number to add an account. http://support.currentc.com

Adding a New Payment Account - Checking Account (ACH)
Want to pay with CurrentC using your checking account? Here’s how:

Open the CurrentC application
Enter your 4-digit Passcode
From the Home Screen select the Accounts button
Make sure the My Payment tab at the top of the screen is selected
Select the Add button
For iPhone and iTouch - The add button is a plus sign at the top right of the Accounts screen
For Android – Press your phone’s menu button
Click the Add Payment button
Select Checking Account from the list of account types
Enter your checking account information – Note: This information is not stored in your phone.
Enter your personal information – Note: Driver’s license number and social security number are used to confirm your identity. This information is not stored in your phone.
Select the Submit button

 

[tkatz]

Apple Pay has no traction.

You'll feel better as a result of sending your missive, but it'll be too little too late. Target, Rite Aide, Walgreens, CVS, Sears, Walmart, Best Buy, Kmart, 7 Eleven and others have swiftly reacted to the Apple Pay situation, it's problems, complications, and walked away. The last thing these retailers need is to be unwittingly drug into a payment system abyss.

If it should be proven that there's some merit, some advantage to Apple Pay, I would think they might revisit it in another few years. Apple has staying power, there's no rush to implement Apple Pay. By taking time to review what went wrong and how it might me fixed, will be a very good lesson for Apple.

Look how easily Apple ignored it's loyal customers for two years, preventing them from having the 5.5" display they wanted so badly. The temporary failure of Apple Pay won't affect Apple.

This is Apples game, in Apples ball park. They'll continue to do what they want, when they want, and customers will praise them for it. All is well

I hope your not being serious, but don't see any sarcasm tags.

In the event you are, or people seem to believe you, the fact that these locations have had NFC terminals for quite some time and they have been working all along goes to show how much traction ApplePay has. ApplePay uses the same basic infrastructure as Google Wallet, PayPass, PayWave, etc... which have been working for years. All of a sudden people are using their iPhones to make purchases and now its a problem. This shows that MCX is afraid that this ApplePay thing might actually catch on, validating the whole NFC payment thing in the US. ApplePay uses a version of EMV and if that catches on and more implementations spring up (which is possible since its all the same back end) then it makes CurrentC less attractive (not that it is at all anyway).

If ApplePay had no traction then they would have just left the systems on and accepting payments. You can argue that GoogleWallet, PayPass and PayWave had no traction since they didn't care when people were using those. Now that people are using ApplePay, its a problem. I'd say thats pretty good traction.

I don't see how anyone can at all argue in favor of MCX on this one. Regardless of your views on either system, both systems should be allowed to run their course. Thats how competition works, right? Run NFC along side CurrentC and let the public decide which one they prefer. If your going to accept credit cards anyway (via magstripe swipe) then your already paying the transaction fees and ApplePay doesn't cost anything extra. MCX see's the writing on the walls that their system is going to fall on its face and are having a panic reaction.

All disabling NFC systems going to do is cause payment system fragmentation and that is simply lose-lose for everyone.

 

[FieldingMellish]

I will never use my phone to buy stuff.

 

[caesarp]

I will never use my phone to buy stuff.

Why not?

 

[AppleScruff1]

No, it's best for stores to stop jerking customers around. We didn't have stores taking away our choice two weeks ago. You are all focused on the use of Apple Pay. That not the issue. It's taking away NFC that was there and working, whether or not that method was there a month ago. And guess what, NFC was there a month ago. Again, you just don't get it. I have never completed an Apple pay transaction despite having the capability to do so. I just don't want stores removing a capability for spite.

What about stores that don't accept Discover or American Express? I've found a few of those in my area.

 

[kdarling]

I don't think the merchants care much about the customer name. I think MCX's appeal to them is to eliminate credit card merchant fees, and replace them with a small ACH fee per transaction.

Sure, fee reduction is a major part of MCX's appeal (as is data retention).

However, I was talking about why they shut off NFC to kill Apple Pay, which is a totally different topic, since they haven't shut off regular credit cards.

Merchants depend a lot on being able to target ads and flyers to customers via their zip code, areacode, name, etc. That's why so many try to non-chalantly ask for such info.

But, unless they pass significant savings to the consumer, I don't think MCX is going to get uptake from consumers. There's too much perceived danger in giving a group of merchants unrestricted access to withdraw from your checking account.

Agreed.

Do you have a source for that?

Of course. Just some examples of why credit card companies are paying Apple to let them continue to get our purchase data:

MasterCard Is Selling Your Data - Wired

Mastercard: Real-Time Consumer Trend Data Is A Huge Growth Area For Us - Business Insider

Mastercard, AmEx Quietly Feed Data to Advertisers - AdAge

And this one, which points out just how much more CC companies know about what we REALLY buy, versus just location or search based info collectors like Google:

AmEx is the king of check ins — and it could own local recommedations - VentureBeat

My favorite part: using our CC history, apps could make even better restaurant recommendations, because the CC companies know for real what kind of money we usually spend on meals and where.

I just could imagine that one day this'll become a commmon blind date question: "Okay, Mr Big Shot, show me your restaurant recommendations!" Heh heh. Oops. Nailed.

--

What's also interesting, is that even if you are one of the few who exercise their privacy rights and tell their CC company not to share data, it does NOT affect sharing with their partners. For example, Visa is partners with Disney and Amazon. Thus they can all share our personal purchase habits with each other.

--

Perhaps in the future, some kind of proxy payment system akin to Google Wallet (maybe a paid service versus ad funded) might be the best bet for those who actually want more purchase privacy.

 

[ihonda]

crappyc aalso wants your social security number and drivers license number to add an account. http://support.currentc.com

adding a new payment account - checking account (ach)
want to pay with currentc using your checking account? Here’s how:

Open the currentc application
enter your 4-digit passcode
from the home screen select the accounts button
make sure the my payment tab at the top of the screen is selected
select the add button
for iphone and itouch - the add button is a plus sign at the top right of the accounts screen
for android – press your phone’s menu button
click the add payment button
select checking account from the list of account types
enter your checking account information – note: This information is not stored in your phone.
Enter your personal information – note: Driver’s license number and social security number are used to confirm your identity. This information is not stored in your phone.
Select the submit button

**** that

 

[AdonisSMU]

I will never use my phone to buy stuff.

I will use my Phone to buy stuff at businesses that support it within reason. If a competitor supports it, I go to that store. its as simple as that.

 

[HEK]

utter nonsense. You are not trading "medical records". No one has access to your medical records that isn't authorized. The red card application isn't a hippa waiver.

It's astounding some of the nonsense posted in this thread.

Nonsense ah, read for yourself. Look up the following and read it.
Techcrunch CurrentC

Their own system calls out that Medical Data IS collected. So convince me why I would want that from a payment system. I will be awaiting your apology.




After his investigation of the app, Aude told me “CurrentC borders on the creepy line” due to it pulling health info. He also that found that its Terms Of Service leaves high liability for fraud to the user if someone else is able to get access to a user’s phone and make CurrentC payments.

 

[rsocal]

There is zero difference in fees for the merchant between Pay and swiping a card.

How many times does this have to be said???

I can't believe how many people think this cost the merchant more money.

I'll repeat it with you!

There is zero difference in fees for the merchant between Apple Pay and swiping a card.

 

[caesarp]

What about stores that don't accept Discover or American Express? I've found a few of those in my area.

Did they accept them for a week and then stop to promote an as yet not generally available worse form of payment? Also, I can use MCX or VISA there. At CVS I can't use any type of NFC payment. Your analogy doesn't hold water.

 

[Keirasplace]

I think people want Applepay to justify wasting their money on new gadget.

Just about every phone out this year has NFC, even those 1/3 the price of those from Apple, are you living in a cave?

I can pay around here with NFC and just a little card, no phone at all. So, do you even have a point?

You prefer a system that rips your privacy, security and is less convenient to spite Apple (and by accident I suppose, spites Android too) even though NFC already exists in the rest of the world without Apple being involved at all; that's some serious irrational dislike just there.

 

[rsocal]

Pretty much this. I never thought there would be so much outrage but I agree with everyone. I think you're gonna see Apple Pay really take off.

Agreed!##

 

[SusanK]

What about stores that don't accept Discover or American Express? I've found a few of those in my area.

I had collision work done on my convertible in July. The body shop accepts cash or check. No credit cards at all. They do not deal with the insurance company. Adjuster was welcome to inspect the car there of course.

The work was excellent. I paid with a personal check. If I wished there was an option to endorse the insurance check to the body shop.

Prior to getting an estimate at this body shop I went to one of the insurance company's anointed shops. The estimate there was higher than my body shop and it was not a complete collision repair.

Nice deal for the anointed body shop. Under repair the car. Overcharge the insurance company.

I admit I was surprised to find a business that did not accept cc. The shop was recommended by a trusted mechanic who has serviced the car for years.

Unusual but it does happen.

 

[firewood]

I used my American Express card. I can't use that this week, though, because some stranger got the account number and tried to use it in another state. I have to wait for Amex to send me a new card.

What I would like is a major credit card (MC/Visa/Amex) which can only be used with Apple Pay. e.g. something completely useless to anyone who steals the CC account number (or even the name, expiration date and CVC).

 

[Tubamajuba]

I hope your not being serious, but don't see any sarcasm tags.

In the event you are, or people seem to believe you, the fact that these locations have had NFC terminals for quite some time and they have been working all along goes to show how much traction ApplePay has. ApplePay uses the same basic infrastructure as Google Wallet, PayPass, PayWave, etc... which have been working for years. All of a sudden people are using their iPhones to make purchases and now its a problem. This shows that MCX is afraid that this ApplePay thing might actually catch on, validating the whole NFC payment thing in the US. ApplePay uses a version of EMV and if that catches on and more implementations spring up (which is possible since its all the same back end) then it makes CurrentC less attractive (not that it is at all anyway).

If ApplePay had no traction then they would have just left the systems on and accepting payments. You can argue that GoogleWallet, PayPass and PayWave had no traction since they didn't care when people were using those. Now that people are using ApplePay, its a problem. I'd say thats pretty good traction.

I don't see how anyone can at all argue in favor of MCX on this one. Regardless of your views on either system, both systems should be allowed to run their course. Thats how competition works, right? Run NFC along side CurrentC and let the public decide which one they prefer. If your going to accept credit cards anyway (via magstripe swipe) then your already paying the transaction fees and ApplePay doesn't cost anything extra. MCX see's the writing on the walls that their system is going to fall on its face and are having a panic reaction.

All disabling NFC systems going to do is cause payment system fragmentation and that is simply lose-lose for everyone.

It's not worth your time explaining this. Half the people in this thread don't want to understand this issue- they just want to insult and demean anyone they disagree with.

When this article was first posted, I strongly expected all of MacRumors to be united on this one- I thought that the contingency of Android users on this site would be concerned that the future of NFC payments was being threatened. Turns out a large number of people here just can't resist immaturely bashing others, even while such a promising technology is being threatened by those who want no part in protecting our privacy and securing our data.

Fact of the matter is, a good number of regulars in these forums visit for the sole purpose of getting under the skin of people who like Apple. You're never going to engage them in an honest discussion about this issue.

 

[rsocal]

I will never use my phone to buy stuff.

Why?

 

[HEK]

It's so funny ready all the tin hat brigade worried about mining credit card data.

All they see is a card number and what you buy. Nothing else, no name or other details. The paranoia is incredible.

If you don't want companies knowing everything you buy don't have store cards.

Look up Techcrunch CurrentC and read the article for yourself. You will be amazed at the information they want to have.

 

[firewood]

I wonder if there are enough iPhone 6/6+ and Apple Pay users to cause a change in CVS and Rite Aid revenues this week? If their bean counters notice a drop, that will certainly get their managements attention.

 

[Keirasplace]

What I would like is a major credit card (MC/Visa/Amex) which can only be used with Apple Pay. e.g. something completely useless to anyone who steals the CC account number (or even the name, expiration date and CVC).

Credit card companies basically does that with Apple pay, the card companies "issues" a virtual credit card (tied to a real card) to Apple that's only useful in their system.