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D-day is Thursday
- Thread starter peter2002
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Of course, they were only exercising their right of freedom of speech. Since that's all that most liberals really are, all talk, not much else.
I exercise my freedom of speech, and my obligation to help other when I'm in the position to help, just like my president. I just wish that others would too, and stop their b*tchin and bickering. As I used to say... "b*tch, b*tch, b*tch..."
actually your blanket statement is whats appalling. you need to realize that some people have tremendous compassion for others. its only natural for some to cry out when innocent lives will be maimed. cant you understand that? whether or not you agree is one thing but for you to not understand ones compassion for the lives that will be lost....well, maybe your the one without a life.
i agree, we do need to do something, but you just said above, we gave him a chance and it didnt work, so now we have to go in with full force and crush them. well, why is it one extreme or the other? if our true reason for going to war is to save the iraqi's from this tyrant and to protect ourselves in the future then why not go in and use the more precise ground troop missions? why go in with such a blunt sword?
im not against removing saddam, give me a break. he needs to go and that is obvious, but lets do it in a way that actually DOES save the lives of the iraqi's, then we wouldnt be seen as such hypocrites.
oh and to EVERYBODY, can you talk about this as if we are in this together instead of turning this into a freaken pointless liberal dog and right wing sychopath finger pointing contest?
I find it funny that the tree hugging liberal hippy peace lovers can't face the true facts behind all of this.
Saddam Hussain is worth over $2 billion while his people live in poverty. The middle class where you individuals leasing Mercedes does not exist in Iraq.
Saddam, given the chance, would kill all of the Kurds in Northern Iraq and other muslims in the south. Hitler did the same thing to those jewish people, remember them? Many are beaten, raped, killed and dismembered for doing things like protesting, much of what you liberals obviously take for granted.
Do us all a favor, drive your car into your gated community, into your two car garage, pull out some aged wine and enjoy. The government makes sure that they know more than we do.
Saddam Hussain is worth over $2 billion while his people live in poverty. The middle class where you individuals leasing Mercedes does not exist in Iraq.
Saddam, given the chance, would kill all of the Kurds in Northern Iraq and other muslims in the south. Hitler did the same thing to those jewish people, remember them? Many are beaten, raped, killed and dismembered for doing things like protesting, much of what you liberals obviously take for granted.
Do us all a favor, drive your car into your gated community, into your two car garage, pull out some aged wine and enjoy. The government makes sure that they know more than we do.
It's funny how when you put all the cards on the table for reasons to go to war, the hippies shut up.
No one said that hippies had to be poor...
Back on topic quick before this thread gets moved to the political graveyard:
I agree on NavyIntel's statement on the Kurds in Northern Iraq and the Muslim sects in the South. If it were not for the No-Fly Zones in both regions of Iraq they would be dutifully slaughtered as they have been in the past.
Ha ha ha.
You slay me!
It is good that a boy of your age is thinking about these things. As you grow older and gain experience, though, you will see that the world is not so black and white.
G4Scott:
As a concerned liberal, I find your statement of "go to France" to be reflecting a potentially dangerous mindset.
Let me quote the US Constitution for you:
This Amendment, the first of ten in the Bill of Rights, was put in for a reason. You see, the idea was that if the people were willing to question and petition the government, it would not only keep the officials more honest but also allow the people to start a change in the government should one be needed.
This is the groundwork of our nation and our people. The reason our culture and many cultures in the "Western World" are so powerful is because we are free to express our views.
I love this country and want it to do what I feel is best for it. While I am not perfect, I am confident that war is not our best option in this situation. Thus, I am going to continue to protest the government's choice on the matter. I will have my voice heard, and I know I am not the only one who will be speaking in opposition to this war. I am doing the most patriotic thing possible - excersizing my rights to improve my country.
It is you and those like you who attempt to silence us and label us as "Un-American" or "Anti-American" for disagreeing with our government officials, when that is a key thing our government structure relies on to remain the best it can be, that are acting against your country's best interest. Our voices and ability to speak, negotiate, and compromise are the keys to our republic's ability to prosper.
I will not be silenced, I will not "go to France", and I will not let people like you push me around. PERIOD.
As a concerned liberal, I find your statement of "go to France" to be reflecting a potentially dangerous mindset.
Let me quote the US Constitution for you:
This Amendment, the first of ten in the Bill of Rights, was put in for a reason. You see, the idea was that if the people were willing to question and petition the government, it would not only keep the officials more honest but also allow the people to start a change in the government should one be needed.
This is the groundwork of our nation and our people. The reason our culture and many cultures in the "Western World" are so powerful is because we are free to express our views.
I love this country and want it to do what I feel is best for it. While I am not perfect, I am confident that war is not our best option in this situation. Thus, I am going to continue to protest the government's choice on the matter. I will have my voice heard, and I know I am not the only one who will be speaking in opposition to this war. I am doing the most patriotic thing possible - excersizing my rights to improve my country.
It is you and those like you who attempt to silence us and label us as "Un-American" or "Anti-American" for disagreeing with our government officials, when that is a key thing our government structure relies on to remain the best it can be, that are acting against your country's best interest. Our voices and ability to speak, negotiate, and compromise are the keys to our republic's ability to prosper.
I will not be silenced, I will not "go to France", and I will not let people like you push me around. PERIOD.
Why does everyone always bash hippies? Seams kinda funny to me.
Your average middle class, middle age, white person bashes hippies for all they are worth.
Your average every day peecee user bashes the Macintosh platform for all its worth.
See the connection?
So will you
PLEASE
leave us poor, tree-hugging hippies alone?
Your average middle class, middle age, white person bashes hippies for all they are worth.
Your average every day peecee user bashes the Macintosh platform for all its worth.
See the connection?
So will you
PLEASE
leave us poor, tree-hugging hippies alone?
i just love this pearl of wisdom
so this is your reason for justifying war now?
"Saddam has killed many of his own people, and he has the capability to kill more, and nobody in Iraq will stop him."
hehehehehe, um and didnt the world sit back and watch that happen? we did nothing. damn americans must be slow....we are now attacking for what saddam did so long ago when we sat back and pretended nothing happened during the actual slaughter?
i think theres more to the picture than just america taking out a tyrant. if that were true then we would have attacked long ago instead of turning a blind eye. there's obviously political (money) reasons why we didnt.
but some here will believe that we are being STRONG and HEROIC when in actuality its about politics that most likely none of us know the real motives.
again, if your reasons for us going to war were based in truth then i agree. saddam must go. but if your reasons were truth....then why didnt you so called enlightened beings (republicans) do anything about it long ago?......political reasons.
anybody here is blind if they think that we do anything for the good of another country souly out of the goodness of our heart.
you guys can believe all you want but this isnt cause we are the good guys trying to create a peaceful world.
its about politics and power. not peace and being the good guys.
so this is your reason for justifying war now?
"Saddam has killed many of his own people, and he has the capability to kill more, and nobody in Iraq will stop him."
hehehehehe, um and didnt the world sit back and watch that happen? we did nothing. damn americans must be slow....we are now attacking for what saddam did so long ago when we sat back and pretended nothing happened during the actual slaughter?
i think theres more to the picture than just america taking out a tyrant. if that were true then we would have attacked long ago instead of turning a blind eye. there's obviously political (money) reasons why we didnt.
but some here will believe that we are being STRONG and HEROIC when in actuality its about politics that most likely none of us know the real motives.
again, if your reasons for us going to war were based in truth then i agree. saddam must go. but if your reasons were truth....then why didnt you so called enlightened beings (republicans) do anything about it long ago?......political reasons.
anybody here is blind if they think that we do anything for the good of another country souly out of the goodness of our heart.
you guys can believe all you want but this isnt cause we are the good guys trying to create a peaceful world.
its about politics and power. not peace and being the good guys.
amen. If it's not so black and white Ovi, how can you just assume peace as a solution?
The problem is that people don't give two cents about any one else. They are afraid of change. Anything that changes is bad in this world. That's why people stick with PC's that they can't stand. Because they aren't brave enough to buy a better machine.
You just forgot!
You just forgot a very important card! Wisdom is not only a matter of making right decisions, is also about knowing when to apply them. To me, and many others, there is no question whether Sadam Hussein should or should not be removed, but why now? Many of you use the old argument, It has been 12 years Well then. Would 4 months make such a big difference? The US is a world superpower that is breaking a weak world balance. Currently, there are many U.N. resolutions being broke, but what the government is suggesting is that not only has the U.N. failed to make countries comply with their resolution, but also that there is no need for a U.N. approval to go to war. This is the international image the U.S. is promoting. Sadam Hussein is a dangerous predator that needs to be removed ether by force or diplomacy. The use a force is sometimes unavoidable, but the respect to the international community must always be present. The monetary price of this war is over 100 billion, but the price we will pay for this war isnt only monetary. We lost some allies and our international image is in a delicate and dire position. What wouldve happened if we waited 4 or perhaps 6 more months? NOTHING, except we wouldve gone to war with the support of the international community making it a cheaper and more convenient way to get rid of Sadam Hussein. Some might say, Well there is a threat of terrorist attacks? Well isnt there a threat anyways. The alert level is now on its second highest, Orange. Some other might say well .uuh ..Sadam had 12 years .uuh! Exactly . so would a couple more months made such a big difference. Sadam has had weapons of mass destruction for 12 years and suddenly if we dont attack now, there is a very high risk . GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!! The international community was only asking for a few more months!!!
Some of you in an elevated display of ignorance are blaming the international community and countries like France because they treat a VETO and according to some of you, they did nothing. In some ridiculous displays of patriotism people are breaking bottles of whine and changing the name of French fries to freedom fries. The international community is very important to this county; even as a super power we depend on the international community. Economically speaking, weakening our international relations would be devastating for this country. And by going to war, at this time, it is exactly what we are doing. I dare anyone to show me, how is it exactly that the deterioration of our relations with countries life France, Germany, Mexico, etc, makes or puts us in a better position? How severe do you think this is?
A war against Iraq headed by the United States without the authorization of the United Nations would be perceived by many nations and specialists as a violation of international laws "Without a resolution, this war will be perceived by many countries worldwide not only like illegitimate, but also like a devoid of political legitimacy", said Steven Ratner, professor of international laws in the University of Texas. Some of you kids are really funny, you dont seem to realize the seriousness of the ongoing events and you talk about war as if it was so simple. I Agree, its necessary to cease Sadams regime, but not now!!! not this way!!! Some of you need to do a little more research than just watching news at night. Go to international news websites, read international newspapers. I see many of you are probably still in high school, so please take some history classes, inform your selves, learn some more. Ask any veteran about his experiences with war and then you will realize how horrible it is. And you want to send our soldiers to die! With out the support of the international community. On the other hand, if president Bush wouldve waited just a little bit longer, the whole world would be on our side and the military operation wouldve been easier and faster.
You just forgot a very important card! Wisdom is not only a matter of making right decisions, is also about knowing when to apply them. To me, and many others, there is no question whether Sadam Hussein should or should not be removed, but why now? Many of you use the old argument, It has been 12 years Well then. Would 4 months make such a big difference? The US is a world superpower that is breaking a weak world balance. Currently, there are many U.N. resolutions being broke, but what the government is suggesting is that not only has the U.N. failed to make countries comply with their resolution, but also that there is no need for a U.N. approval to go to war. This is the international image the U.S. is promoting. Sadam Hussein is a dangerous predator that needs to be removed ether by force or diplomacy. The use a force is sometimes unavoidable, but the respect to the international community must always be present. The monetary price of this war is over 100 billion, but the price we will pay for this war isnt only monetary. We lost some allies and our international image is in a delicate and dire position. What wouldve happened if we waited 4 or perhaps 6 more months? NOTHING, except we wouldve gone to war with the support of the international community making it a cheaper and more convenient way to get rid of Sadam Hussein. Some might say, Well there is a threat of terrorist attacks? Well isnt there a threat anyways. The alert level is now on its second highest, Orange. Some other might say well .uuh ..Sadam had 12 years .uuh! Exactly . so would a couple more months made such a big difference. Sadam has had weapons of mass destruction for 12 years and suddenly if we dont attack now, there is a very high risk . GIVE ME A FREAKING BREAK!!!!! The international community was only asking for a few more months!!!
Some of you in an elevated display of ignorance are blaming the international community and countries like France because they treat a VETO and according to some of you, they did nothing. In some ridiculous displays of patriotism people are breaking bottles of whine and changing the name of French fries to freedom fries. The international community is very important to this county; even as a super power we depend on the international community. Economically speaking, weakening our international relations would be devastating for this country. And by going to war, at this time, it is exactly what we are doing. I dare anyone to show me, how is it exactly that the deterioration of our relations with countries life France, Germany, Mexico, etc, makes or puts us in a better position? How severe do you think this is?
A war against Iraq headed by the United States without the authorization of the United Nations would be perceived by many nations and specialists as a violation of international laws "Without a resolution, this war will be perceived by many countries worldwide not only like illegitimate, but also like a devoid of political legitimacy", said Steven Ratner, professor of international laws in the University of Texas. Some of you kids are really funny, you dont seem to realize the seriousness of the ongoing events and you talk about war as if it was so simple. I Agree, its necessary to cease Sadams regime, but not now!!! not this way!!! Some of you need to do a little more research than just watching news at night. Go to international news websites, read international newspapers. I see many of you are probably still in high school, so please take some history classes, inform your selves, learn some more. Ask any veteran about his experiences with war and then you will realize how horrible it is. And you want to send our soldiers to die! With out the support of the international community. On the other hand, if president Bush wouldve waited just a little bit longer, the whole world would be on our side and the military operation wouldve been easier and faster.
I'd just like to go on the record that after the renaming of french fries to freedom fries, I officially changed my party designation from Republican to Independent.
It's weird that Democrats seem to forget that there are a fair number in their own party who actually support this war but because CNN doesn't put them on the TV supporting Bush we can all live in the fantasy world that there is a united Democratic party against the war (or united on any other issue for that matter).
It's weird that Democrats seem to forget that there are a fair number in their own party who actually support this war but because CNN doesn't put them on the TV supporting Bush we can all live in the fantasy world that there is a united Democratic party against the war (or united on any other issue for that matter).
after a while, arguing just becomes pointless...but you are asking for it ...
Yes, Saddam is bad. He killed over 5000 Kurds in his own country, he invaded Kuweit, he is a megalomaniac. He also was involved in that war against Iran, but back then he was good, that is why we sold him weapons.
Where am I going with this ? You see, being good or bad does not justify an attack on a country, not even in the twisted mind of a politician (or was it the mind of a twisted politician ? oops). There is dozens of other countries with bad dictators, but we don't do anything about it. Hell, in some cases we even give them our support. So this cannot be the real reason...
Well, but Saddam is an immediate threat to the US, right ? Mmmmm, let me see. The government bent over backwards to pull some solid proof 'out of its @ss', there has been lies, dubious quotes and rather insignificant discoveries...the governement still claims to posses proof that Saddam is the biggest threat. The world has not seen any of it. The UN has not seen it. The only other governments that agree are courting the US economically...it is just a bit too suspicious in my mind...
Some people say "Better safe than sorry". How can war be safe ? How do we benefit to show that we have the biggest guns when the whole world turns against us ? Technically, the US will win any war on this planet, with minimal casualties (on our side, who cares about anything else ?). But what happens once the military operation is over ? Is the US going to be stronger or more vulnerable because of this lasting impression ? Do you think this is going to impress any terrorist ? It would probably be much safer (AND CHEAPER) to keep the inspections and tight surveillance for another 12years rather than going to war now. Saddam is not going anywhere, plenty of time to 'deal with' him.
I am asking a lot of questions here, but what exactly is the strategic goal of this war ? To remove Saddam and his sons ? You are telling me that the only way to remove them is by sending in 200'000 soldiers and planes and tanks and all the good stuff ? Give me a break.
The civilian deaths is a whole topic on its own, I am sure you are aware that civilians get killed by the tousands in those conflicts. It happened during the Gulf War, it happened in Afghanistan, it will happen again. Is it ok to kill civilians to avenge other civilan deaths ? On the other hand, some estimates say that the embargo killed around 1million people, mostly children (lack of medicine, clean drinking water etc.). That is a tough one, I agree.
I don't know why Bush suddenly decided to attack Iraq, why he made up his mind at the end of last year. I am sure he wants the best for America, although I have a hard time following his logic and dislike his rethoric (bringing God, good vs. evil etc. into politics is just WRONG). If we cannot prevent Saddam from developing WMD, how are we going to stop the next government ? It is only by bringing peace to the middle east that we will reduce any threat, and starting a war does not really carry that message accross.
Believe me, I want the best for this country ! I want to stay.
oh, and remember: hippies smell !
hacurio1,
You need to wake up if you think that 4 to 6 months would have ever impressed the French, Germans, and Russians (who are all heavily invested in Saddam Hussain's government) are going to sign on to a second Gulf War. It would NEVER happen.
Someone said before that the issue is not black and white. There's blood on everyone's hands in this issue. It's time to make it right. The sooner it's right, the sooner life goes on.
I think I should repeat the fact that the three countries above did not make any sort of valiant effort to pursuade Saddam to disarm. They are simply doing this to flex their muscles against the will of the U.S. government to prove that they are still superpowers.
You need to wake up if you think that 4 to 6 months would have ever impressed the French, Germans, and Russians (who are all heavily invested in Saddam Hussain's government) are going to sign on to a second Gulf War. It would NEVER happen.
Someone said before that the issue is not black and white. There's blood on everyone's hands in this issue. It's time to make it right. The sooner it's right, the sooner life goes on.
I think I should repeat the fact that the three countries above did not make any sort of valiant effort to pursuade Saddam to disarm. They are simply doing this to flex their muscles against the will of the U.S. government to prove that they are still superpowers.