Damn Apple, if you are going to drop OS support

[pastrychef]

And?

You were replying to:

Microsoft are hell bent on upgrading as many people to Windows 10 as possible, so that they can harvest your information and sell more advertising.

So, I thought you knew something I didn't and asked:

Apple sells info harvested from us through macOS?

 

[ITguy2016]

You were replying to:



So, I thought you knew something I didn't and asked:

I was replying to:

"Microsoft are hell bent on upgrading as many people to Windows 10 as possible..."

Hence the bold highlighting. The rest of that statement:

"...so that they can harvest your information and sell more advertising."

Is wrong so it's not applicable.

 

[scotttnz]

I disagree with the effort Microsoft is using to push Windows 10 but it does require a user to accept the license agreement so users do have the opportunity to reject it. But it is annoying. As for the upgrade failing it's interesting only Mac users, and the people they know, who seems to have problems with it. Everyone I know hasn't had a single problem with it.

I'm actually not anti Windows, in my day job I'm an IT professional, working mostly with VMware and Windows. I use it all day at work, and installed Windows 10 on my work laptop no problem. I just happen to prefer to use a Mac at home. I am yet to upgrade the Window 8.1 VM I run under parallels on my Mac (these days I mostly just use the VM for a couple of Windows only work tools that I use when I am working from home and can't be bothered getting my Windows laptop out of my bag.) It is kind of funny seeing the "Upgrade to Windows 10" nag box come up on a Mac though.

Working in IT, of course I am a magnet for any friends and family who have computer problems. I think that is the reason I hear about upgrade problems, not because I use a Mac. I'm sure the vast majority of Windows 10 upgrades go smoothly, but nobody complains to their IT pro friend when that happens. My parents have some app compatibility problems after upgrading, and my friends laptop wont boot, but I'm sure I have a bunch of other friends who haven't bothered to tell me everything is working perfectly.

But now we are getting off topic aren't we?

 

[ITguy2016]

I'm actually not anti Windows, in my day job I'm an IT professional, working mostly with VMware and Windows. I use it all day at work, and installed Windows 10 on my work laptop no problem. I just happen to prefer to use a Mac at home. I am yet to upgrade the Window 8.1 VM I run under parallels on my Mac (these days I mostly just use the VM for a couple of Windows only work tools that I use when I am working from home and can't be bothered getting my Windows laptop out of my bag.) It is kind of funny seeing the "Upgrade to Windows 10" nag box come up on a Mac though.

Working in IT, of course I am a magnet for any friends and family who have computer problems. I think that is the reason I hear about upgrade problems, not because I use a Mac. I'm sure the vast majority of Windows 10 upgrades go smoothly, but nobody complains to their IT pro friend when that happens. My parents have some app compatibility problems after upgrading, and my friends laptop wont boot, but I'm sure I have a bunch of other friends who haven't bothered to tell me everything is working perfectly.

But now we are getting off topic aren't we?

That depends. You started this thread asking for Apple to provide a replacement for hardware they've discontinued with their next OS release. What if Apple never does so? Despite your, or anyone elses, preference for Macintosh / OS X if Apple doesn't update the Mac Pro you'll have no choice but to find an alternative solution.

SGI is a prime example...great hardware and a great OS. But they're no longer viable these days. Those who loved and used SGI's had no choice but to move off the platform. Mac professionals could be facing a similar fate. At over 900 days without an update if I were using a Mac Pro professionally I would be examining other solutions. Windows would be one of those solutions. A solution which is not nearly the problem some Mac users make it out to be.

 

[theluggage]

Curious what do you do that makes it slower?

4 cores vs. 12. When building apps, typically, there's a whole bunch of files that can be compiled independently before the whole shebang is linked together and - given enough RAM and fast HD access - a 12 core machine can compile these 12 at a time. The amount of data read/written isn't huge c.f. media work, so the access times for lots of simultaneous files is more important than data rate, and even SATA-based SSDs are good at that.

Photoshop etc. can take advantage of the dual GPUs in the nMP for image processing, and media work involving few huge files (rather than lots of small files) will benefit from the high-bandwidth PCIe SSD.

Basically, the nMP was optimised for pro media work rather than general heavy lifting.

Making Windows run on as much hardware as possible is beneficial to Microsoft. The opposite is true for Apple.

You've got that back to front. It is beneficial for third party hardware manufacturers to make sure their hardware works with Windows and produce drivers etc. If Apple wants hardware (esp. internal hardware rather than peripherals) to support Macs they pretty much have to write and support the drivers themselves, or persuade the makers to add support. That's probably why they're reluctant to support hardware too far back (if you don't test on it, its not supported).

NB: Bit of perspective - I'm still using 10.9 because I've got a couple of things that don't support 10.10 and later. Its no big deal and I'm still getting security updates. It will be a few years before your 10.11-max machines become doorstops. If Apple don't come up with any hardware that tickles your upgrade bone before then, then its Linux/Windows time.

 

[kucharsk]

My suggestion, do a little research on hackintoshing. Do your homework and buy the right parts and the process can be fairly painless.

Yeah, who cares if you are violating the license agreement, right?

 

[pastrychef]

Yeah, who cares if you are violating the license agreement, right?

If it bothers you, don't do it.

 

[lowendlinux]

That depends. You started this thread asking for Apple to provide a replacement for hardware they've discontinued with their next OS release. What if Apple never does so? Despite your, or anyone elses, preference for Macintosh / OS X if Apple doesn't update the Mac Pro you'll have no choice but to find an alternative solution.

SGI is a prime example...great hardware and a great OS. But they're no longer viable these days. Those who loved and used SGI's had no choice but to move off the platform. Mac professionals could be facing a similar fate. At over 900 days without an update if I were using a Mac Pro professionally I would be examining other solutions. Windows would be one of those solutions. A solution which is not nearly the problem some Mac users make it out to be.

I know here life cycle replacement is three years, IIRC leasing is also 3 years Apple going to be bumping against that pretty quickly now.

 

[pat500000]

4 cores vs. 12. When building apps, typically, there's a whole bunch of files that can be compiled independently before the whole shebang is linked together and - given enough RAM and fast HD access - a 12 core machine can compile these 12 at a time. The amount of data read/written isn't huge c.f. media work, so the access times for lots of simultaneous files is more important than data rate, and even SATA-based SSDs are good at that.

Photoshop etc. can take advantage of the dual GPUs in the nMP for image processing, and media work involving few huge files (rather than lots of small files) will benefit from the high-bandwidth PCIe SSD.

Basically, the nMP was optimised for pro media work rather than general heavy lifting.



You've got that back to front. It is beneficial for third party hardware manufacturers to make sure their hardware works with Windows and produce drivers etc. If Apple wants hardware (esp. internal hardware rather than peripherals) to support Macs they pretty much have to write and support the drivers themselves, or persuade the makers to add support. That's probably why they're reluctant to support hardware too far back (if you don't test on it, its not supported).

NB: Bit of perspective - I'm still using 10.9 because I've got a couple of things that don't support 10.10 and later. Its no big deal and I'm still getting security updates. It will be a few years before your 10.11-max machines become doorstops. If Apple don't come up with any hardware that tickles your upgrade bone before then, then its Linux/Windows time.

Thanks for sharing that. That makes whole lot sense. Is it having hard accessing simultaneously?..the files I mean?

 

[greenmeanie]

Harvesting? LOL What are you talking about you can shut those features off. Just like you can with OSX. I shut off win10 Auto Updates and all the other stuff I don't want running just don't buy the HOME version.

I get that. Microsoft are hell bent on upgrading as many people to Windows 10 as possible, so that they can harvest your information and sell more advertising.

I'm not opposed to buying new hardware, in fact I'd quite like a brand new Mac. They just don't make the Mac I want. Now I don't expect Apple to drop everything they are working on and make a special Mac just for me. Either they will come out with something I like soon, or I will learn to adjust what I want. The world will continue to turn, it's a little bit frustrating though.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Harvesting? LOL What are you talking about you can shut those features off. Just like you can with OSX. I shut off win10 Auto Updates and all the other stuff I don't want running just don't buy the HOME version.

So you recommend buying the Win 10 Pro version? What did you turn off?

 

[greenmeanie]

I remove the LOGO screen that requires swipe to log in.
I stop Auto Updates.
I don't use UAC.
Allow Telemetry to no
Anything when installing the OS that ask to send info to Microsoft.
The PRO version also lets you access other settings not allowed in the home version.

So you recommend buying the Win 10 Pro version? What did you turn off?

 

[joebclash]

That depends. You started this thread asking for Apple to provide a replacement for hardware they've discontinued with their next OS release. What if Apple never does so? Despite your, or anyone elses, preference for Macintosh / OS X if Apple doesn't update the Mac Pro you'll have no choice but to find an alternative solution.

SGI is a prime example...great hardware and a great OS. But they're no longer viable these days. Those who loved and used SGI's had no choice but to move off the platform. Mac professionals could be facing a similar fate. At over 900 days without an update if I were using a Mac Pro professionally I would be examining other solutions. Windows would be one of those solutions. A solution which is not nearly the problem some Mac users make it out to be.

I would agree that I would have to look for alternative solution because my mac pro 2008 is no longer supported. Unfortunately I make a living using xcode. The switch will take time. I just really disappointed Apple seems to not care about high end professional users. I'm just shocked that I will now have to really consider getting off the Mac platform. This will not be easy for me...

 

[JimGoshorn]

I just really disappointed Apple seems to not care about high end professional users. I'm just shocked that I will now have to really consider getting off the Mac platform. This will not be easy for me...

After using Macs since the first one, I also thought I'd never see this day.

Since Apple plans many things out years ahead, I have to wonder how much of this direction is Steve's and how much is Tim's. In either case, I still think Steve would be rolling over in his grave about now.

 

[F1Mac]

I would agree that I would have to look for alternative solution because my mac pro 2008 is no longer supported. Unfortunately I make a living using xcode. The switch will take time. I just really disappointed Apple seems to not care about high end professional users. I'm just shocked that I will now have to really consider getting off the Mac platform. This will not be easy for me...

Relax... It's been said several times that WWDC usually focuses on software (unless they want to tease everyone 6 months ahead like they did with the nMP, which was a major redesign - nMP 7,1 will only have new specs). I too would have liked to hear something about Apple's hardware yesterday, but the year is certainly not over, a refresh will come. For now I'm confident. 🙂

Besides, your 2008 MP is 8 years old now, it was to be expected sooner or later. FWIW, my 10 y.o Mac Pro runs El Capitan just fine... 😉

 

[pat500000]

Relax... It's been said several times that WWDC usually focuses on software (unless they want to tease everyone 6 months ahead like they did with the nMP, which was a major redesign - nMP 7,1 will only have new specs). I too would have liked to hear something about Apple's hardware yesterday, but the year is certainly not over, a refresh will come. For now I'm confident. 🙂

Besides, your 2008 MP is 8 years old now, it was to be expected sooner or later. FWIW, my 10 y.o Mac Pro runs El Capitan just fine... 😉

Yeah we do got 6 months...but it's mostly like idevices... And Apple Watch (possible). And back to next summer 2017... Software and idevices for fall. I'm taking phil words literally. If he said nMP 2013 is the thing for next 10 years... He might be serious. Lol

 

[scotttnz]

Relax... It's been said several times that WWDC usually focuses on software (unless they want to tease everyone 6 months ahead like they did with the nMP, which was a major redesign - nMP 7,1 will only have new specs). I too would have liked to hear something about Apple's hardware yesterday, but the year is certainly not over, a refresh will come. For now I'm confident. 🙂

Besides, your 2008 MP is 8 years old now, it was to be expected sooner or later. FWIW, my 10 y.o Mac Pro runs El Capitan just fine... 😉

My expectation is that there will a bunch of new Macs released around the time the Sierra is publicly available. So "the fall" also known as my spring which means 3-6 months away. I'd say new Macbook Pros are very likely, but Mac Pros, Minis, and iMacs are anybodies guess. I'll wait and see, but it looks like Sierra will run ok on a flashed 4,1, so I'll probably just do that.

 

[ITguy2016]

Relax... It's been said several times that WWDC usually focuses on software (unless they want to tease everyone 6 months ahead like they did with the nMP, which was a major redesign - nMP 7,1 will only have new specs). I too would have liked to hear something about Apple's hardware yesterday, but the year is certainly not over, a refresh will come. For now I'm confident. 🙂

Besides, your 2008 MP is 8 years old now, it was to be expected sooner or later. FWIW, my 10 y.o Mac Pro runs El Capitan just fine... 😉

It was recently said, to those inquiring if they should buy a nMP now, to wait until WWDC. With WWDC past should they wait until the next milestone (whatever that milestone may be)?

I see absolutely no reason why Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro in almost three years. Even if it represents an insignificant amount to their bottom line the reality is it represents an insignificant amount to their bottom line. It wouldn't mean anything to the bottom line to just update it. It's not like they have to be careful in how they allocate their resources. They can update the Mac Pro and not even notice the impact to the bottom line. It's less than a rounding error.

 

[pat500000]

My expectation is that there will a bunch of new Macs released around the time the Sierra is publicly available. So "the fall" also known as my spring which means 3-6 months away. I'd say new Macbook Pros are very likely, but Mac Pros, Minis, and iMacs are anybodies guess. I'll wait and see, but it looks like Sierra will run ok on a flashed 4,1, so I'll probably just do that.

Curious... U got plan b if they fail to deliver macs? For all I know iPads iPhones and Apple Watch might be around the corner. It's isn't the first time they would spend 1hr to reflect back on OS X.

 

[scotttnz]

Curious... U got plan b if they fail to deliver macs? For all I know iPads iPhones and Apple Watch might be around the corner. It's isn't the first time they would spend 1hr to reflect back on OS X.

No I don't really have a plan. Most likely I will continue to use my old Mac Pro for a while longer. But at some time I will get to a point where I really want something new (and if I am honest, it is far more likely to be a want than a need) and at that point if nothing in the Mac lineup takes my fancy I will probably build my own PC. I think I'd build it out of known Hackintoshable parts, so I could give that a go if I want to. Otherwise Windows is fine, I just like how OS X works with my other apple devices.

 

[pat500000]

No I don't really have a plan. Most likely I will continue to use my old Mac Pro for a while longer. But at some time I will get to a point where I really want something new (and if I am honest, it is far more likely to be a want than a need) and at that point if nothing in the Mac lineup takes my fancy I will probably build my own PC. I think I'd build it out of known Hackintoshable parts, so I could give that a go if I want to. Otherwise Windows is fine, I just like how OS X works with my other apple devices.

Hackintosh sounds great! But yeah I hear you.

 

[H2SO4]

I get that. Microsoft are hell bent on upgrading as many people to Windows 10 as possible, so that they can harvest your information and sell more advertising.

I'm not opposed to buying new hardware, in fact I'd quite like a brand new Mac. They just don't make the Mac I want. Now I don't expect Apple to drop everything they are working on and make a special Mac just for me. Either they will come out with something I like soon, or I will learn to adjust what I want. The world will continue to turn, it's a little bit frustrating though.

God I hate comments like this. Do you have any proof that what you claim is their ‘raison d’être’?

Know what I find annoying, is the way you have to put in a name and address when you install the Mac OS anew. It then sends your information to Apple WTH FOR???

 

[shaunp]

From my limited exposure to Windows 10, it doesn't seem too difficult to get along with

it's not difficult to get a long with at all. I missed a replacement for messages, but on the other hand explorer is much better than finder. Windows has a reasonable amount of cloud synchronisation now so it's easy if you have multiple machines. One thing that I didn't like though was multi monitor support. It's clunky under Windows, if one of your monitors is 4K and the other isn't. OS X handles this a lot better.

 

[JimGoshorn]

Thanks for the info. Fortunately, neither of my monitors is 4k so I should be safe then. Between using a Windows 10 laptop and reading about Windows 10, I am learning as much of it as I can so I can make the right decision to go or stay.

 

[F1Mac]

It was recently said, to those inquiring if they should buy a nMP now, to wait until WWDC. With WWDC past should they wait until the next milestone (whatever that milestone may be)?

I see absolutely no reason why Apple hasn't updated the Mac Pro in almost three years. Even if it represents an insignificant amount to their bottom line the reality is it represents an insignificant amount to their bottom line. It wouldn't mean anything to the bottom line to just update it. It's not like they have to be careful in how they allocate their resources. They can update the Mac Pro and not even notice the impact to the bottom line. It's less than a rounding error.

I think it would be much more problematic if they had announced some hardware refreshes/upgrades without mentioning the Mac Pro. But since they actually said nothing about any of their hardware, my assumption is that it will come some time later and it will include the nMP. When is anyone's guess I suppose. A WWDC announcement was always nothing more than rumors. But we started to believe them like they were a reality. The fact that they didn't announce new hardware last monday doesn't mean they won't.

Nothing in 3 years is a bit baffling I totally agree. But I'm just trying to stay optimistic 😉