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"A trio of judges found Apple was not entitled to replace David Lysgaard's iPhone 4 with a refurbished model since it may contain recycled parts, which could result in a lower resale value and went against his "legitimate expectation" of receiving a brand new iPhone equivalent to his original purchase. "

That's always my reasoning as well. regardless of the country.... It's the only reason i demanded/got for a free phone in the past. Took a while, but Apple ain't easy to get along with.

Glad to see some judges elsewhere see the light.

I know why Apple doesn't because they wanna save on manufacturing costs. and if everyone started getting "new" phones instead of express replacements, or after a repair has been done.. then Apple would go broke/loose too much money.

I guess this is like saying "We understand the strict testing that goes through a replacement/refurbished product, but we still feel we should get a new phone, just because its new"

Easy solution there... Apple should just update the wording from "as new" or "like new" to just "new"

as long as it comes in a retail package, which is allot cheaper to produce, then users will think everything is fine.

Problem solved :)
 
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Consumer protection law(s) in Denmark wouldn't apply to other countries, though, correct?
No but a lot of countries outside of the US have laws that entitle you to replacements being original new devices.
This is probably just he first of many trial cases.
I was surprised in Australia (I'm from the UK) that Apple was replacing faulty devices with equipment that was not new.
I'm not sure it is legal to do that in Australia?
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What would those things be?



No, read the Warranty coverage posted on Apple's site. Also look into their return policy for your area.
A company cannot remove your consumer rights, just by posting some terms and conditions.
[doublepost=1481364863][/doublepost]
New iphone 4 huh?
The case probably took years to be heard?
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Of course Apple will appeal this ruling, if they don't it sets an expectation and precedent that others can use to get free iPhone upgrades to the latest model just by making claims it doesn't live up to expectations. Companies have to fight these kinds of rulings because it has potential to drastically hurt sales.
Apple cannot override consumer law and no amount of appeals will change that.
[doublepost=1481365367][/doublepost]
Not great for the environment, surely? I thought Denmark might be forward thinking in this department.
The iPhone, refurbished and working is still an iPhone, no? Re-Sale value? Wouldn't worry about it - invest in property if you want resale value.

Why is it not good for the environment?
Refurbished phones will continue to be directed to countries that do not have the protections that Denmark have.
[doublepost=1481365965][/doublepost]
And consumers wonder why Apple products are more expense in certain countries. It is nice to have great consumer protection laws but do they actually think the companies just absorb the cost themselves?

Usually down to two things
  1. Salaries
  2. Charging what they think they can get away with.
Any company worth is salt, will make sure that failure rate is low and that cost is minimised.

I remember what software used to cost outside the US and that has nothing to do with 1) and everything to do with 2), also had nothing to do with cost of replacements.
 
dilbert99 said:
Apple cannot override consumer law and no amount of appeals will change that.
Basically this - the appeal is futile, apples argument is that "a refurbished phone is as good as new" which might be true but it's completely besides the point since the law says it has to be NEW, not "as new"

Also to make it clear, Apple wasn't sued - they sued the guy because he wouldn't accept a refurbished phone for his broken one.
 
"Apple also said refurbished iPhones undergo rigorous tests and strict quality control."

********. When I started having issues with my 5S, I got 3 refurbished models in a row to replace each other due different issues. First one had digitizer broken at left side of the screen, second had broken radio so it would not connect to mobile network and third had battery issues. All via official Apple service center.
 
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Usually down to two things
  1. Salaries
  2. Charging what they think they can get away with.
On top of that, taxes can vary a lot from country to country. On electronic devices I can go from 8% VAT to 20% just by crossing the border a few Km away.
 
The other option is to give the user a loaner, take his / her phone in for repairs, then give it back. In that case, they would have a used phone (Their original phone in this case) with some new components. It all depends on local laws, but it would be legal in most countries to do this, likely costing the customer more time.

I have had carrier extended warranties in the past, dealing with shipping a phone out, using a loaner, then reverse the process, is a pain in the neck. The Refurbished replacement is actually a nice service (IMO).

If he indeed received a refurbished device with blemishes, then he should be made whole by receiving a proper replacement.
Are you aware that your point is: "well, the company could've screwed the consumer even more, we'd be glad it screws us less"? Maybe the consumer should choose between awesome and more awesome, not totally screwed and screwed less? Apple produced defective part. Apple is in the wrong. The consumer had problem he shouldn't have had especially for the money he paid.
[doublepost=1481376407][/doublepost]
2. Civil law countries don't have 'precedents' so the factual basis of the article is incorrect
They don't have precedents in a sense common law has however precedents do have a broader meaning in civil law. I can't say for Danes but I can say for my country which is a civil law country as well. First there are some won cases. Then there is a lost case, maybe two. They get appealed. Eventually they go to higher court. Its decision does not set precedent however leads to this law being thoroughly officially commented by scholars of the highest court in every detail possible because obviously if there are different decisions based on the same law there might be misinterpretation. Most times after that in all future similar cases every lower court abides to this comment because if he does not, it's almost 100% the decision will be successfully appealed.
[doublepost=1481376817][/doublepost]
Apples refurbs are basically new, new cases and screens. You cant even tell the difference..
Then why call it refurb?
[doublepost=1481377320][/doublepost]
And if we want to cut down on e-waste, repairs and refurbished swaps are really the way forward here.
LOL, advocating for Apple environment friendliness for not producing new parts and rather using old ones when Apple was basically the company that popularized replacing big parts of its devices (aka producing a lot of new waste) vs old paradigm of actually repairing them (aka producing almost nothing). Oh the irony.
[doublepost=1481377646][/doublepost]
The thing that makes customers mad is *repeat repairs*. ... So if Apple had any real doubt in those replacement parts they wouldn't use them.
All the recent Apple-gates anyone?
Apple has no doubt in only one direction, only one: economical viability. If it fails three times and consumers still buy it and they lose let's say 1% why make its quality better to fail 1 times for 3% more money. Economics 101. They do not care about your feewings because they love you, they have to respond to their stakeholders; if it happens they do care this time the one and only reason might be because it will bring them more money; if it does not, as we saw a lot of times from Apple, consumer feelings do not matter at all until class action law suit is on the horizon.
 
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It's irrelevant when the law says differently.

The law says your item must be repaired, replaced with a NEW item or refunded in full.

I suppose Apple has that page for something. The trouble is its an "express replacement service"

Apple would have to change the name as it won't be a (re)placement service anymore. The whole thing would fall apart.
 
That's too bad. This will increase Apple's cost of doing business in Denmark which will lead to higher prices (I would guess across the EU).
The sales will fall due to price increase. Apple will get less money (since there was no margin increase within price increase). They will be internally pressured to improve QAQC. Items will fail less after that. They will lower prices back (of course with some PR stunt bound to it). End result? Same prices, better quality. You're welcome. Economics 101.
 
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I suppose Apple has that page for something. The trouble is its an "express replacement service"

Apple would have to change the name as it won't be a (re)placement service anymore. The whole thing would fall apart.
Again they can call it whatever they want, they still need to provide a NEW replacement.
 
Are you aware that your point is: "well, the company could've screwed the consumer even more, we'd be glad it screws us less"? Maybe the consumer should choose between awesome and more awesome, not totally screwed and screwed less? Apple produced defective part. Apple is in the wrong. The consumer had problem he shouldn't have had especially for the money he paid.
[doublepost=1481376407][/doublepost]They don't have precedents in a sense common law has however precedents do have a broader meaning in civil law. I can't say for Danes but I can say for my country which is a civil law country as well. First there are some won cases. Then there is a lost case, maybe two. They get appealed. Eventually they go to higher court. Its decision does not set precedent however leads to this law being thoroughly officially commented by scholars of the highest court in every detail possible because obviously if there are different decisions based on the same law there might be misinterpretation. Most times after that in all future similar cases every lower court abides to this comment because if he does not, it's almost 100% the decision will be successfully appealed.
[doublepost=1481376817][/doublepost]
Then why call it refurb?
[doublepost=1481377320][/doublepost]LOL, advocating for Apple environment friendliness for not producing new parts and rather using old ones when Apple was basically the company that popularized replacing big parts of its devices (aka producing a lot of new waste) vs old paradigm of actually repairing them (aka producing almost nothing). Oh the irony.
[doublepost=1481377646][/doublepost]All the recent Apple-gates anyone?
Apple has no doubt in only one direction, only one: economical viability. If it fails three times and consumers still buy it and they lose let's say 1% why make its quality better to fail 1 times for 3% more money. Economics 101. They do not care about your feewings because they love you, they have to respond to their stakeholders; if it happens they do care this time the one and only reason might be because it will bring them more money; if it does not, as we saw a lot of times from Apple, consumer feelings do not matter at all until class action law suit is on the horizon.

At the level of abstraction of mass part failures that go unacknowledged until a class is brought I agree with you. At the level of standard service strategy to save as much money as possible in the service process whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Each warranty action that takes place costs a certain amount and carries the opportunity cost of servicing another customer. Repeat repairs are considered the worst of the worst uses of time and its both because its a waste of resources AND because it impacts the customer's perception and relationship of the company and the product so significantly.
 
Repeat repairs are considered the worst of the worst uses of time and its both because its a waste of resources AND because it impacts the customer's perception and relationship of the company and the product so significantly.
Bear with me. This is true. However the end result is not that "Apple might lose its friends and it does not want this, it loves its friends", the end result is "Apple might lose money and it does not want this, it loves money more than friends" as any other for-profit company, no less, no more.
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Not really the cost will be passed on to the consumer.
And before that Apple is a discounter, right?
 
It should. Example: I live in the US. I bought a new HGST 4TB Deskstar (post Hitachi, now Western Digital). That's an expensive drive for a TM backup. Anyway, it died less than two years later of intermittent use. When it died and I RMA'd it, I received a refurbished unit that lasted less than two years and I just RMA'd that one yesterday back to HGST (WD).
I am fairly certain that the unit that is replaced won't be NOS (new old-stock) but another refurbished item that can't and won't be trusted. And what do they care? They already have my money.

Lesson: Warranties are ******** unless you're receiving brand new replacement parts or products.
The Danish Court made the correct ruling.
Ah, good ol Deathstars. Lol
 
It's like this for almost every consumer product and has been like this for decades.
Contract cannot contradict the law. When it does, it (or the contradicting part) is void.
[doublepost=1481382062][/doublepost]
By providing a fully functional equivalent device.
Well, Apple couldn't prove it beyond the reasonable doubt in court and it's not even the first time AFAIK. Do you think Danish judges and courts are biased? :)
 
"since it may contain recycled parts, which could result in a lower resale value ...."
Good grief Charlie Brown ... some people just need to complain about something else!!!
Wow I had no idea that people checked the parts inside a used iPhone before purchasing one!!!
All they are trying to do is get a free iPhone 7 for there broken and dropped iPhone 4.
Trying to get an iPhone 7 for a broken 4? But spends years in COURT to allegedly just want an iPhone 7. Do you think about these things before you type them?
[doublepost=1481382227][/doublepost]
Good points but i have to disagree with the car statement. Car salesman are simply scandalous and the lemon laws hardly cover anything other than the car blowing up in the first few days.
Please read up before making silly statements on Lemon Law.
 
And this is front page news because...?

Denmark's a civil law country so this is no precedent (even if Denmark was a common law country it's an appealable decision, so wouldn't be binding precedent for anything).

Sounds like it's very specific to Denmark's consumer law too (so is unlikely to have any meaning in a global context).

---

Edit for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with 'civil law' and 'common law' differences (to say that a civil court would give precedential treatment to a judgment... let alone a lower court judgment is such a major error of understanding that I had to point it out):

Civil law, civilian law, or Roman law is a legal system originating in Europe, intellectualized within the framework of late Roman law, and whose most prevalent feature is that its core principles are codified into a referable system which serves as the primary source of law. This can be contrasted with common law systems whose intellectual framework comes from judge-made decisional law which gives precedential authority to prior court decisions on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions (doctrine of judicial precedent, or stare decisis).

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)
If i could, i would downvote your post straight to Australia
 
I'm mostly addressing the people in this thread that are arguing the merits of refurbished vs new when it's all a moot point because it's dictated by the warranty contract or whatever consumer laws dictate.
Consumer laws essentially should reflect community consensus on how the things should be. That is, people say they should be getting and this means if there are a lot of such people consumer laws should reflect this. Consumer laws for the people, not the people for consumer laws. Of course it's an idealiastic view.
Warranties, on the other hand, represent the company view and consumers have no say in them.
Consumers and the company have conflicting interests.
All in all, people are right in their saying "they should get new" if they think so, they should consult with their consumer laws to see if this is the case and maybe advocate for its change if its not. Warranties are the last thing people should construct their expectation on because they're written by entity which has contradicting interest.
[doublepost=1481382973][/doublepost]
With regards to Manufacturers, I still need to send in equipment when I deal with my Sony, Nikon, or Canon equipment. I have only had to send into Canon and Sony (so far), however in both cases they were repaired and sent back, I didn't receive a refurbished replacement, I received my old, used gear, with all of the same blemishes It had when I sent it out.

Minutiae aside, that is besides the point I am attempting to make in regards to Apple (the manufacturer) providing immediate replacements. It sounds like I am in the minority, however I feel that Apple's warranty service is great, with refurbished items being readily available without making the customers wait for repairs or use loaner phones.

It's just my opinion, however consumer expectations are starting to become quite unrealistic in realm of smartphones.
Just imagine that in some other place on Earth you could've demanded for the device to be replaced with a new one instead of repaired (as well as you could say you prefer repair and not replacement - no matter new or refurbished - if you care for the environment for example) as this is your lawful right there. There are such places on Earth. It's just that USA is not one of them (yet?).
[doublepost=1481383259][/doublepost]
You're not in the minority. Apple's support is legendarily good and consistently rated tops. Remember, on MR you get a a disproportionate view because it is mainly people trolling Apple. MacRumors should do a test- run an article "Tim Cook saves handicapped orphan from burning building." I guarantee a large percentage of the comments would have a negative spin, starting with "Why is Cook spending time saving orphans when the MacPro needs to be updated?"
[doublepost=1481383466][/doublepost]
I strongly believe in voting with your wallet. When I walk into a hardware store and a sturdy metal stool costs $20 and then plastic one next to it costs $35, which one will I be getting? Did that plastic stool really cost more to make and distribute? Not a chance. It's a form of abuse, and consumers should not stand for it. Apple holds standards up high, so they will continue to get my dollars, even when I disagree with their pricing on certain items.
Oh the irony.
 
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And the iPhone 4S continues alongside the iPad 2 to be the best mobile device Apple has ever released.
Aside from the 5k iMac and last generation Retina MacBook Pro Apple products in general are inferior after 2011.
 
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(1) At 8:30 she reveals her major bias' without realizing it. She admits she is doing the video "because Apple looks down on independent repair shops as 'the dirty industry.' " Once we know she has a grudge against Apple her credibility is shot.

(2) Another key thing that she doesn't realize is that she is unintentionally showing what a great company Apple is. Early on she tells us that customer got the iPad as "an OUT OF WARRANTY" swap. Thus, Apple went the extra mile to take care of a customer whose warranty had expired.
(1) Does not invalidate her point.
(2) He paid money for this "OUT OF WARRANTY" swap or the defect was there initially and they swapped it for free because they knew this. All in all he must have got the device of equal quality as a new one, as advertised. He did not as proven in the video. Case dismissed.
 
Apples refurbs are basically new, new cases and screens. You cant even tell the difference..

Apple refurb iPhones get a new battery and case.

They also contain up to a dozen used modules that have been recycled out of other returned phones.

G Parts that fail once and then continue to fail is what erodes the relationship with the customer, the product and so on. So if Apple had any real doubt in those replacement parts they wouldn't use them.

Apple uses parts pulled from other returned phones because it saves them money.

Except in almost all consumer products, a warranty allows for repair of said device rather than replacement with new.

This case was in Denmark. EU law trumps Apple's written warranty.

I can see replacing with a NEW phone if it breaks within their return period, or maybe a month, but otherwise they clearly state you will get "like new" condition.

Heck, Apple doesn't even give new in their return period.

I do think EU customers should have a choice between a longer taking repair or an instant refurb swap. That would help both sides.

--

Interestingly, with the previous Dutch case, Apple tried to argue that they could not return the plaintiff their full purchase price because Apple would only get a "worthless" broken phone in return.

This backfired badly, because it simply proved to the court that the plaintiff had been sold a phone that had become "worthless" within the warranty period.
 
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Buy a NEW iphone, and it gets faulty, then the replacement SHOULD BE NEW. Buy a refurbished model and it gets faulty, then the replacement should be refurbished. Customers should not accept anything less. And as a great brand, Apple should ensure the customer gets the best product. Like for Like, which is NEW.
 
And this is front page news because...?

Denmark's a civil law country so this is no precedent (even if Denmark was a common law country it's an appealable decision, so wouldn't be binding precedent for anything).

Sounds like it's very specific to Denmark's consumer law too (so is unlikely to have any meaning in a global context).

---

Edit for the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with 'civil law' and 'common law' differences (to say that a civil court would give precedential treatment to a judgment... let alone a lower court judgment is such a major error of understanding that I had to point it out):

Civil law, civilian law, or Roman law is a legal system originating in Europe, intellectualized within the framework of late Roman law, and whose most prevalent feature is that its core principles are codified into a referable system which serves as the primary source of law. This can be contrasted with common law systems whose intellectual framework comes from judge-made decisional law which gives precedential authority to prior court decisions on the principle that it is unfair to treat similar facts differently on different occasions (doctrine of judicial precedent, or stare decisis).

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(legal_system)

This is both right and wrong at the same time

DISCLAIMER: I'm not a lawyer, nor a law student. I'm just a graduate engineer with a some sort of extended knowledge of the Danish society and legal system.

So let's start at the top. Stating that the Danish law systems is Civil Law is correct, though it's a mixture of Scandinavian law and german law. This fact makes the legal system somewhat more complex than you describe.

When the court of law rules over a case in Denmark, it is not just the "written word" in the law that is taken into consideration. It is also "betænkninger" (thoughts) made by "Folketinget" (Parliament) as the law has been passed. This includes small notes on special cases, as well as questions from the members of parliament and the answers from the ministry of justice. But most importantly, earlier rulings in the same area are taken into consideration when making a decision in court. As far as i know, this is mainly from the supreme court in most countries, but in Denmark, it is actually many times from either the county court or the high court (we have three courts, county court, high court and supreme court). So a ruling in the county court might actually make precedence over other cases, if there has not been a similar case before, or the case is substantially different from other cases.

So if Apple appeals, it will go to high court, and make precedence there. But as this is the first of it's kind in terms of refurbished phones as replacement, this makes precedence in Denmark.

And no, this only is for danish consumers, as the consumer law is different for each country. I am posting a thread about the rule itself, which you can find here in just a moment
 
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Trying to get an iPhone 7 for a broken 4? But spends years in COURT to allegedly just want an iPhone 7. Do you think about these things before you type them?
[doublepost=1481382227][/doublepost]Please read up before making silly statements on Lemon Law.

Lemon laws are American state laws that provide a remedy for purchasers of cars and other consumer goods in order to compensate for products that repeatedly fail to meet standards of quality and performance. Although there may be defective products of all sorts ranging from small electrical appliances to huge pieces of machinery, the term "lemon" is generally thought of as applying to defective vehicles such as automobiles, trucks, SUVs, and motorcycles.

What is a Lemon?
Generally, if the car has been repaired three to four (or more) times for the same defect within the Warranty Period and the defect has not been fixed, the car qualifies as a Lemon. All States differ so you should consult the Lemon Law Summary and the State Statutes for your particular State. Note that the warranty period may or may not coincide with the Manufacturer’s Warranty.

I happen to be a graduate in business school right now and while I am not a law expert I do know what a lemon law is and by no means was my statement "silly". Facetious, perhaps, but silly...? I didn't mean your car had to literally blow up for it to be a lemon. Try not to read so much into things bud. Now, an iPhone 4 that is broken 3-4 years later is by no means a lemon unless we don't have the facts that this guy brought his phone in for repairs several times for the same issue.
 
I've read some of the posts here, and the comments on Facebook, and i think that there are a lot of misconseptions about 1. the ruling 2. the whole replacement process.

So let's start over - how do you repair stuff?

Normally when things break, it is rarelt the whole thing that is broke, but part that needs to be repaired or changed. Take a car for example. If your car breaks down, your entire car is not being exchanged. That is ridiculous and expensive.

In the past, when you'r phone broke, your phone was repaired. This was either the display, logic board, battery, and so on, that could be replaced. But with the latest iphones, the phones have gotten much more complex, compact, thus harder to repair and service by everyone. Repairing stuff also takes time, and not having a smartphone is hard in our society.
So Apple, and almost all other manufacturers, does this in a clever way. They exchange your phone with one that looks like new. That way, the consumers think that they have a brand new phone, and Apple can centralize the repairing facilities, for example that Europe has one in Eindhoven (NL), US has one, and so forth. But this is not just good, and major issues goes hand in hand in this way of doing this:

I think that my experiences are a very good example in this case. I got 12 iphone 6 replaced over a course of 8 months untill Apple gave me my money back. In the beginning, i just thought that i was unlucky, but it is mainly because the QA is extremely bad, as well as the issue with this process. By getting a phone where the inside is old, you are extremly prone to errors and defects. Because the just reassemble it from old parts, that might have a water damage, or just are old.

So take this example. You buy a car, and after a month, driving 4000 km in it, it breaks down. Good news - you get a brand new car, but with a a mileage of 50.000 km. The salesperson tells you "it's a new car, look, there are no dent's in it", but everything in it is between a year and two old. You would never accept that.

So this is what happens with your iphone. I bought a brand new iPhone 6s. After a day, the haptic engine didn't work anymore. I got a refurb, but that refurb was maybe 2-3 months old. This went on 6 times (yes), and it only "stopped" because i DEMANDED a brand new phone which i got.


Now we have stated how repairs work. Now let's take a look at the danish consumer law.

In Denmark, for up to two years after you buy a product, you are entitled to free repairs if it breaks due to normal use. So if it one days stops working, and you've been using it as you would use the product normally, the seller has to give you a repair. If that same error happens a second or third time, you are entitle to receive a new product or the money back. THIS IS THE LAW! and everyone else have been following this for as long as i remember, just not Apple.

As much as i love apple products, i cannot stress enough how important it is that everyone follow the same rules, no matter who you are. This is a cornerstone in our society. Just because you are a big company, you are not above the law. In this case, any other than following the law would actually give you a better positions towards other companies. This would be unfair competition, and would be against the Lisbonn treaty.


As far as this case goes: David (the guy apple tried to sue) tried to get his money back, back in 2011. Apple refused, and the case went on for a couple of years in the "Forbrugerklagenævnet" (Consumer complaints board). This type of institution is a cornerstone in Danish law, as it avoids us from going to court with Civil case, as this is time and money consuming. The consumer complaints board have representatives from both the industry and the consumers. They ruled that Apple had to pay back 5800 kroners, which is the price of the phone. The board also said that giving refurbished phones as a replacement, was not okay, referring to the danish consumer laws.

I have described the danish system of law in a previous post, as a reference to the next part.

Apple took the case to the court as they are entitled to. In my opinion, this is a very "American" way of doing it - just trying to take it's time, so that the case eventually would not be ruled over, because the guy David sued, did not have enough money, or didn't think it was worth it. In Denmark though, a good lawyer can't do anything if the case is clear. Also, precedence is made if no such case has been ruled over before. This was why Apple made the stupid move, because now where they have lost, precedence has been made.

So what does this ruling mean?
Apple still has several attempts to fix an error in a phone. They could just try to fix the phones, instead of exchanging them for refurbished phones with old hardware. During the 2nd and 3rd attempt, Apple would need to replace it with a brand new phone, or give the consumer the money back. Just like anyone else has done it according to danish law.

So for you guys who say our phones get more expensive: this is a ruling in Denmark only. And if anyone else makes cheaper phones than Apple, and is following the law, why would this change? Apple has a huge profit each year, and is just trying to get as much money as possible to their shareholders.

For you who say it is bad for our environemt: If Apple just repairs their phones as anyone else would, or starts making phones repairable, this issue is totally avoidable. Thus it's their fault. And apple actually salvages the materials from used phones. This is a part of the CSR strategy, and not waste of resources.

And about the ruling: This mainly only has an affect on Denmark.

And lastly - consumer laws are here to protect you. For you who are so naive to think that Apple only makes products to satisfy their customers, you are wrong. Apple's main purpose is to give money to their shareholders. If that means cutting costs everywhere, they would do it!
 
Buy a NEW iphone, and it gets faulty, then the replacement SHOULD BE NEW. Buy a refurbished model and it gets faulty, then the replacement should be refurbished. Customers should not accept anything less. And as a great brand, Apple should ensure the customer gets the best product. Like for Like, which is NEW.
Just Apple or every other company? Because that's not really how it works... anywhere.
 
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