smacrumon
macrumors 68030
"that's not really how it works... anywhere" -- well that's incorrect. Some businesses have customer focused policies.
And yes Apple, because it can be one of those customer focused companies.
Danish Court Rules Apple Must Replace Man's iPhone With New Rather Than Refurbished Model
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And yes Apple, because it can be one of those customer focused companies.
News flash. You need to come out of your bubble. The iPhones we have in the USA are exactly the same phones that are sold in Denmark and they aren't designed to "Danish" standards, they've been sold in the US long before they were ever available for sale in Denmark, a lovely country. Actually, no offense, Apple loves the Danes, but you're typically one of the last countries to get Apple products for sale because your population is so small and Apple sends them to its major markets first. You're also one of the European countries not to even have an Apple store.
So, sorry to burst your bubble, it's not that Apple doesn't love you, they are in fact helping your economy by building a new data center there, but no Apple isn't designing it's products because of some municipal law passed in Denmark.
Glaedelig Jul!
Det var altså ment som en joke ...selvf. er de ikke det og det er de samme telefoner:-S
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News flash. You need to come out of your bubble. The iPhones we have in the USA are exactly the same phones that are sold in Denmark and they aren't designed to "Danish" standards, they've been sold in the US long before they were ever available for sale in Denmark, a lovely country. Actually, no offense, Apple loves the Danes, but you're typically one of the last countries to get Apple products for sale because your population is so small and Apple sends them to its major markets first. You're also one of the European countries not to even have an Apple store.
So, sorry to burst your bubble, it's not that Apple doesn't love you, they are in fact helping your economy by building a new data center there, but no Apple isn't designing it's products because of some municipal law passed in Denmark.
Glaedelig Jul!
Ofcourse it is the same phones:-S and no its not set as danish standards... its a joke but an honest one ... the two year warranty in Denmark does apply to almost every product... as said even the 1$ ones.
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the neighboring countrys are made from the same material as danes.
soon our danish antitroll program will be complete... then there will be no hiding
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gnasher729
Suspended
Simple argument: Replacing a not very new and broken phone with a refurbished one, probably newer, is a perfectly fine way to repair a phone.
danish law...fix same phone or new phone and new 2 year warranty to go with that nomatter how old your old phone is just as long as under 2 years. if phone breaks more than 3 times you are entiteled to get your money back .. so if your phone breakes 1 1/2 year old and you get a new one and again even after 4 1/2 years you get all your money back.... you know why? that will teach people to manifacture crap.... and nto even enough payment for you to hand in your phone and all the hassle with that.
if your goods cant live up to that... well get out of Denmark or be prepared for people wanting their money back
if your goods cant live up to that... well get out of Denmark or be prepared for people wanting their money back
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gnasher729
Suspended
So if you didn't buy directly from Apple, you have no rights against Apple - you have rights against some store. If you bought from Apple, and it is after six months, Apple can quite legitimately say "This might be our fault, or it might not. Because we want to be nice, we offer you a refurbished phone as a replacement. If you don't agree, take us to court, and you will get either a brand new phone, or you will get nothing".
tryrtryrtryrt
Suspended
... is not an option. It's quite the opposite: either Apple will oblige peacefully or will be made to oblige by law. And just so you know, this has nothing to do with the fact that Apple is an American company and there was recently a ruling on Irish taxes regarding Apple, - consumers do this here with local companies as well, small and big, old and new.
In the context of the EU legal guarantee that's correct, except that if the defect is covered the seller has to offer you either a replacement or a repair and the choice is yours, not theirs. This is unless one of the choices is either impossible or disproportionately expensive, but in principle the seller has to offer you both.
truthertech
macrumors 68020
RumorConsumer
macrumors 68000
Interesting viewpoint. It sounds like you've got a real inside line on the industry. Do you have an example of one of these "customer focused" companies that replaces new electronics with other new electronics? Like maybe a written policy that sets that expectation? I'm open to being educated. Thank you!
McPc
macrumors 6502
I owned one of the 1st gen Canon 2MP digital cameras. It eventually broke a few years later but I discovered the part that broke was a known manufacturing bug and the part had been replaced at no cost to those affected. However, when I called Canon customer service they apologized that they no longer made that camera and I was bummed. But then they said they would have to give me a new 7PM camera but the battery charger would be different. I told them it was not a problem for me lol!
tryrtryrtryrt
Suspended
I might be wrong but my first guess would be Logitech. Does anyone know if their replacement by mail gives you a refurb or a new device?
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As mentioned on previous pages, "OUT OF WARRANTY" swap means the person must have paid for the swap, it was not courtesy of Apple otherwise it would've been called differently. So objection dismissed.
Rezar
macrumors newbie
We're not talking about what is fair here we are talking about a specific law, you can disagree with the law but it is the law.
kdarling
macrumors P6
Sounds good, but that's not what these cases are about. They're about replacing unrepairable units. (Even Apple says they cannot be repaired. That's why they have to be replaced. Yeah, I know, but that's the way it is.)
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The seminal ruling that all of these replace-with-new cases spring from, is (I think) this one from 2008, where the central EU court addressed the overall question as to whether or not any EU member could require a consumer to bear some of the cost of having used a device before it failed.
In other words, must a buyer give up something for past usage either by paying a fee, or by getting a less valuable used unit in swap?
Or would getting a less valuable refurb violate the EU rule that a buyer should get any repair or replacement for free?
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The court ruled that it did not matter when in the two year warranty period that something fails. A replacement item must be new, otherwise the buyer was not getting a full replacement for free, as the law required:
"If a seller delivers goods which are not in conformity, it fails correctly to perform the obligation which it accepted in the contract of sale and must therefore bear the consequences of that faulty performance. By receiving new goods to replace the goods not in conformity, the consumer – who, for his part, paid the selling price and therefore correctly performed his contractual obligation – is not unjustly enriched. He merely receives, belatedly, goods in conformity with the specifications of the contract, which he should have received at the outset."
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Wanted797
macrumors 68000
This is cosumerism for you. So many whining people on this issue when the product works just as well.
Sure you can say the guy bought a new one and should get a new one. But the guy did not return a new device, he's returning a device he's been using and likely has some wear and tear. Apple is providing a replacement that will be in far better condition than the one being retuned.
Be grateful Apple have such an awesome replacement warranty, unlike some manufacturers who make you post the phone away only for them to repair it and post the same device back.
Sure you can say the guy bought a new one and should get a new one. But the guy did not return a new device, he's returning a device he's been using and likely has some wear and tear. Apple is providing a replacement that will be in far better condition than the one being retuned.
Be grateful Apple have such an awesome replacement warranty, unlike some manufacturers who make you post the phone away only for them to repair it and post the same device back.
tryrtryrtryrt
Suspended
Be grateful for the defective device. Oh. My. Gosh. Apple fanboys are fantastic.
No, guys. Apple should be grateful they're only required to give a new replacement device and not pay the fee for the inconvenience of the consumer who sponsored their existence with quite a high price tag. If we were talking about consumerism or at least fairness, this would be the case for many reasons.
The state of the returned device is irrelevant: the replacement must be in conformity of what was specified in the original contract, which is definitely not a used device nor a device with whatever wear and tear.
You are confusing the commercial guarantee provided by Apple as manufacturer with the legal guarantee provided by Apple as seller: as consumer you can decide which one to invoke and in the case discussed here the legal guarantee has been invoked. This latter guarantee is not something Apple can negotiate nor something offered out of generosity: it's mandatory and regulated by the EU and (in this specific case) Denmark's consumer laws.
tryrtryrtryrt
Suspended
Just so you know: this is how Apple works in a lot of European countries.
kdarling
macrumors P6
It's not whining when the government is the one deciding, that a consumer is due a new unit if the old fails to live up to its promise.
"Better condition"? Not necessarily. A refurb has recycled used parts which might have been stressed far more than the unit being turned in.
Yep, getting a refurb is better than nothing for those of us who don't live somewhere else, like Holland or Denmark, where we'd get a new device instead.
brdeveloper
macrumors 68030
In theory, yes, you're right. In Brazil things are becoming increasingly mixed: our legal system mixes both codified law, jurisprudence and precedents (although the latter sometimes causes anomalies since the judge can choose between two conflicting sources). I was informed that the same phenomenon is getting increasingly common in USA, since the congress is producing laws which overwrite or conflict with precedents. Perhaps in the long term the western world will work with a single (mixed) legal system.
DUIduckSAUCE
Suspended
What?
Superhai
macrumors 6502a
It is similar but not at all the same. Danish law is very specific that the replacement device should meet the specifications from the original sales agreement. Because the law in case, while it does implements the "EU-law", is stricter and the part do not refer to the EU text, it will not necessary be referred to in other EU countries.
The other case concerns the financial burden of a repair or replacement within the claims period.
Kupo
macrumors newbie
The consumer protection laws in the nordic countries are almost identical, as they were created as an joint effort, so the results would likely be the same
abhibeckert
macrumors 6502
The SE is a different size doesn't have a 30 pin dock connector, so it's not compatible with any cases/accessories this guy has, therefore using it as a replacement probably isn't acceptable unless the customer agrees to it (you can legally negotiate any mutually accepted resolution to any complaint).
Not sure about danish law, but in most countries the ultimate fallback is a full refund of the original purchase price.
That's the case in the whole EU since it's part of the legal guarantee.