pat500000
Suspended
I guess if Apple doesn't want to follow their laws, then Apple should take their business elsewhere.
Danish Court Rules Apple Must Replace Man's iPhone With New Rather Than Refurbished Model
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Euge
macrumors regular
What we want and what we get are two different things. Read the warranty on ANY product you buy and it will likely say warranty replacement can be refurbished goods. It has been like this for decades.
To prove my point, I went to Samsung's site and got the manual for a washing machine. Here is what it says in the warranty section:
Here is what the manual says for a Vizio $2000 TV:
Like I said before -- I realized this was the case when I had a Sony Discman replaced back in 1990 and I read the warranty. This is nothing new.
pat500000
Suspended
The thing is: if Apple doesn't want to follow it then they can go elsewhere.
jadot
macrumors 6502a
No. The overused typical forum cliché, or 'car analogy' doesn't work here. Inside a car's engine there will be a great deal of wear and tear as with most things with mechanical parts, but especially ones that have fuel combustion at their core. A computer has electronic parts that either work or don't. There's not particularly the same kind of wear and tear.
If my logic board goes in my computer and an identically designed but second hand, or refurbished part is put in it's place I will see absolutely no difference than if it was a 'new' logic board. There is a presumed advantage in performance, lifespan, and so value when buying an unused mechanical engine. A new Car. Conversely there is no disadvantage to putting a refurb logic board into my computer. Get it?
truthertech
macrumors 68020
Fake News Alert --
That's simply not true. Stop making things up. For one, Apple has a no questions asked return policy for the first 14 days.
My bad.. was not aware of the 14 days no questions asked policy.. What about after 14 days?
TheShadowKnows!
macrumors 6502a
Question:
Can you tell between a refurnished vis. a new iPhone? My assumption is that it gets new MEID/IMEI assigned to it. (Where MEID is the leading 14 digits of the IMEI).
Unless you can decode this serial number, it is probably next to impossible to tell the difference.
On an aside (and entirely my view, so flame away):
This discussion between new vis. refurnished is probably split across alternate political sides.
Those that support strong customer protection laws (via government laws) will want new. Those that dislike any government laws, considered to be "intrusions", such as consumer/environmental/health/retirement protections, will side with refurnished.
Can you tell between a refurnished vis. a new iPhone? My assumption is that it gets new MEID/IMEI assigned to it. (Where MEID is the leading 14 digits of the IMEI).
Unless you can decode this serial number, it is probably next to impossible to tell the difference.
On an aside (and entirely my view, so flame away):
This discussion between new vis. refurnished is probably split across alternate political sides.
Those that support strong customer protection laws (via government laws) will want new. Those that dislike any government laws, considered to be "intrusions", such as consumer/environmental/health/retirement protections, will side with refurnished.
there are a 2 year warranty on "stuff" in Denmark. turn in policies are up to the store....but if you order online from denmark you have a 14 day return policy on top of the 2 year warranty ... no matter if from 1 dollar store.
there are rules ...used in-ear headphones and other "hygenic" stuff may not have been used and other rules aswell but in general 2 years.
there are rules ...used in-ear headphones and other "hygenic" stuff may not have been used and other rules aswell but in general 2 years.
keithjfuller
macrumors regular
I think that we can all agree that every single consumer would prefer that their broken iphones get replaced with the s7 edge.
RumorConsumer
macrumors 68000
That is the voice of nutty.
That is how it works.
First of all, it seems that many people think that this just has to do with Apple, and that is wrong. It might be that iPhones don't continually fail, but other products do. If I buy a phone from Sony (or any other product), the same law apply. Apple doesn't get to circumvent the law.
Not much is written about this case in the article. But the iPhone he received stopped working, and Apple couldn't repair it (they tried). Under the law, they are then to provide the customer with a phone equal to the one he bought, and that is a completely new phone, not a phone made up of previously used parts, no matter how great/superior/fantastic the quality of those parts are.
In this exact case, Apple themselves said, they couldn't repair the phone. Had they be able to repair it, he would have gotten his phone back, with the broken part repaired. What you apparently don't quite understand is, that Apple (or any other company for that matter) can't keep repairing the product. They can try to repair it twice and if the problem still persists, they have to replace it with a new. Had Apple been able to repair the phone, they would have the option to do so. However they weren't, and by Danish law, this requires them to replace with a new phone.
Had he bought a refurbished phone (something Apple doesn't offer in Denmark), he would have been entitled to a refurbished phone as a replacement.
First of all, it seems that many people think that this just has to do with Apple, and that is wrong. It might be that iPhones don't continually fail, but other products do. If I buy a phone from Sony (or any other product), the same law apply. Apple doesn't get to circumvent the law.
Not much is written about this case in the article. But the iPhone he received stopped working, and Apple couldn't repair it (they tried). Under the law, they are then to provide the customer with a phone equal to the one he bought, and that is a completely new phone, not a phone made up of previously used parts, no matter how great/superior/fantastic the quality of those parts are.
In this exact case, Apple themselves said, they couldn't repair the phone. Had they be able to repair it, he would have gotten his phone back, with the broken part repaired. What you apparently don't quite understand is, that Apple (or any other company for that matter) can't keep repairing the product. They can try to repair it twice and if the problem still persists, they have to replace it with a new. Had Apple been able to repair the phone, they would have the option to do so. However they weren't, and by Danish law, this requires them to replace with a new phone.
Had he bought a refurbished phone (something Apple doesn't offer in Denmark), he would have been entitled to a refurbished phone as a replacement.
Max_Walker
macrumors member
I think Apple will have to differentiate between refurbished and new based upon the reason.
If my new phone - whilst within the warranty period fails for an internal reason - provided no mechanical / moisture reason can be evidenced, it should have a new one for one exchange.
If you turn up to the store - out of warranty or because you dropped it / drowned it or otherwise damaged it, they can - and currently do, replace the phone with a refurbished model for a reduced price ( iPhone 4s - are about 100 quid).
If my new phone - whilst within the warranty period fails for an internal reason - provided no mechanical / moisture reason can be evidenced, it should have a new one for one exchange.
If you turn up to the store - out of warranty or because you dropped it / drowned it or otherwise damaged it, they can - and currently do, replace the phone with a refurbished model for a reduced price ( iPhone 4s - are about 100 quid).
jujufreeze
macrumors 6502a
On the one hand I'm sure refurbished Apple products have been rigorously tested and will brilliantly suffice for 99.9% of users. On the other hand, there is a reason second-hand refurbished products are cheaper. If I pay $800 for a brand-new phone why shouldn't I get a brand new replacement with sealed packaging?
If the grocer gives me a smashed lime, I sure as hell wouldn't accept a slightly discolored "refurbished lime" off in a dark bin somewhere as a replacement, give me a new damn lime from the produce aisle with no visible flaws.
If the grocer gives me a smashed lime, I sure as hell wouldn't accept a slightly discolored "refurbished lime" off in a dark bin somewhere as a replacement, give me a new damn lime from the produce aisle with no visible flaws.
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truthertech
macrumors 68020
we also have a 2 year warranty on almost everything... to be good enough for denmark it should last atleast two years
that is how stuff lasts longer in the U.S .. it has to hold up to danish standards.
You should actually thank us for slowing down planned obsoletion
News flash. You need to come out of your bubble. The iPhones we have in the USA are exactly the same phones that are sold in Denmark and they aren't designed to "Danish" standards, they've been sold in the US long before they were ever available for sale in Denmark, a lovely country. Actually, no offense, Apple loves the Danes, but you're typically one of the last countries to get Apple products for sale because your population is so small and Apple sends them to its major markets first. You're also one of the European countries not to even have an Apple store.
So, sorry to burst your bubble, it's not that Apple doesn't love you, they are in fact helping your economy by building a new data center there, but no Apple isn't designing it's products because of some municipal law passed in Denmark.
Glaedelig Jul!
TheShadowKnows!
macrumors 6502a
^^^ This!
Totally spot-on. And, well reasoned, mathiasec.
How do you try to inject reason to this thread? How dare you? </sarcasm>
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Not sure what era you're speaking of, sincerely. But as far back as I can remember, most things you mentioned had authorized service dealers/locations that would perform service either in home or at their location. Clearly different that dealing direct with the manufacturer.
Superhai
macrumors 6502a
The article is somewhat misleading. The judgment says that a refurbished product has lower second hand value than a new (which clearly Apple acknowledges as they sell refurbished for slightly lower price). Neither the consumer board nor the court disputes that the functionality is less. Therefore according to the "købslov" (law pertaining to buying) the product is not as advertised. The court has not awarded the man a new phone but that the sales agreement to be canceled and in effect refund.
It is important to also recognize that it was Apple who went to court with this case.
About precedents in Danish Law, the primary source are the codified legislation. But this does not mean that precedents does not exists. Especially where the wording is ambiguous, courts will look to previous final rulings.
As Denmark also are required to implement certain EU laws, when the relevant acts are interpreted, they can have precedents for other EU countries when they will judge in the same. "Købsloven" is not one even tough parts includes EU laws.
It is important to also recognize that it was Apple who went to court with this case.
About precedents in Danish Law, the primary source are the codified legislation. But this does not mean that precedents does not exists. Especially where the wording is ambiguous, courts will look to previous final rulings.
As Denmark also are required to implement certain EU laws, when the relevant acts are interpreted, they can have precedents for other EU countries when they will judge in the same. "Købsloven" is not one even tough parts includes EU laws.
ATC
macrumors 65816
I wish that was the case for me. Had 5 refurbs from apple over the years and they all had minor scratches and even small dents (iPhone 4 and 5). Thankfully Apple took care of me and replaced them, eventually got decent refurbs.
