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Darn Shiny keys!!

smirking said:
OK, let's rephrase this. Do all you M4 owners seem to notice that your keys don't shine so easily? Because my keyboard used to always look like it had been working the fryers at the local McDonald's after only a week and with a wipe down, my M4 MBP's keys still look new after 6 months.
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How many hours a day are you typing on the laptop? If you're using it for hours it will get shiny in less than a month. Sounds like you're not using it enough yet.

The M3 Air that I had last summer, the keys got shiny within the first hour of using it.

smirking said:
And wow! You really are typing with your fingernails to avoid putting any prints on your keys? If it bothers you that much, why don't you just use an external keyboard?
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I am using an external mechanical keyboard and it weighs more than my laptop. If I ever have to touch the MacBook keys then I press the keys with my finger nails. This has only happened once, thank God.
 
DeepSix said:
How many hours a day are you typing on the laptop? If you're using it for hours it will get shiny in less than a month. Sounds like you're not using it enough yet.
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I'm a developer. I'm on this thing constantly. I use it without an external keyboard anywhere from 2 to 10 hours a day.

I'm telling you, something changed. I know this issue quite intimately. I've had 10 new Apple laptops in the past decade.
 
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smirking said:
I'm a developer. I'm on this thing constantly. I use it without an external keyboard anywhere from 2 to 10 hours a day.

I'm telling you, something changed. I know this issue quite intimately. I've had 10 new Apple laptops in the past decade.
Click to expand...

Well your post is encouraging to hear, if it's true that M4 laptops won't get shiny as quickly. But Im quite confident that Apple is still using the same cheap ABS plastic on the M4 laptops compared to all previous models. It feels and looks the exact same. If you stick a flashlight to your keyboard you dont see any shine at all?

How long did it take for your previous MacBooks to get shiny keys?
 
Alpha Centauri said:
My M2 started showing them 3 months in. Casual use for 3-4 hrs/ day.
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That sounds very close to my M2. I think it took two months due to the fact I used my MBA for more than 3 or 4 hours a day.

What I don't understand is that I have been using laptops for years. Cheap ones with screen printed keys are the only ones that wore off but I don't remember shiny. Chromebooks that are super cheap to high end Windows laptops for over 30 years. Not a single one ever had shiny keys. Not one.

That is until I got an M series Mac. I don't remember this issue on the butterfly keyboards of the older Intel MacBook Pros. I don't even remember it being an issue on my M1 MBP 13". When I got the true M1 Max 16" MBP was the first time I noticed shiny keys?? Pretty sure.

Up until that point every manufacturer of cheap plastic keyboard keypads on Windows and Apple laptops had keys that wouldn't get shiny.

Then all of a sudden after pretty minimal use of the MacBook you get shiny keys.

It is obviously not a functional issue but it does really look bad on an otherwise spotless laptop.

If MacBooks were cheap or if Apple didn't have such a focus on design and esthetics baked into their product DNA and marketing then I would probably overlook it. When I pay a premium for a product, part of that premium is in the design, look and feel which makes it harder to dismiss.

Having such an eyesore so quickly into the product lifetime is surprising for Apple and cheapens the experience of ownership making one feel the product is not as well made as it could have been.

All of this for a plastic keycap that costs pennies probably. I am pretty sure the genius at Apple could come up with a better material that wouldn't cost too much more and would not wear out so fast. Obviously this is not a huge feat as many other cheaper OEMs manage to use plastics that don't wear down in the same way for many years not months.
 
Technerd108 said:
That sounds very close to my M2. I think it took two months due to the fact I used my MBA for more than 3 or 4 hours a day.

What I don't understand is that I have been using laptops for years. Cheap ones with screen printed keys are the only ones that wore off but I don't remember shiny. Chromebooks that are super cheap to high end Windows laptops for over 30 years. Not a single one ever had shiny keys. Not one.

That is until I got an M series Mac. I don't remember this issue on the butterfly keyboards of the older Intel MacBook Pros. I don't even remember it being an issue on my M1 MBP 13". When I got the true M1 Max 16" MBP was the first time I noticed shiny keys?? Pretty sure.

Up until that point every manufacturer of cheap plastic keyboard keypads on Windows and Apple laptops had keys that wouldn't get shiny.

Then all of a sudden after pretty minimal use of the MacBook you get shiny keys.

It is obviously not a functional issue but it does really look bad on an otherwise spotless laptop.

If MacBooks were cheap or if Apple didn't have such a focus on design and esthetics baked into their product DNA and marketing then I would probably overlook it. When I pay a premium for a product, part of that premium is in the design, look and feel which makes it harder to dismiss.

Having such an eyesore so quickly into the product lifetime is surprising for Apple and cheapens the experience of ownership making one feel the product is not as well made as it could have been.

All of this for a plastic keycap that costs pennies probably. I am pretty sure the genius at Apple could come up with a better material that wouldn't cost too much more and would not wear out so fast. Obviously this is not a huge feat as many other cheaper OEMs manage to use plastics that don't wear down in the same way for many years not months.
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Pennies indeed and totally recall we've shared other threads about this issue.

I've not had as much experience, as you likely did with hardware purchase, BUT having used my 2009 (still do) MBP for the last 14 yrs of no shiny keys, then after only 3 months of the M2, having them, it's quite obvious how the material use has been very much cheapened.

I even ordered another bottle of iKlear after seeing this on my M series so soon, and just for the KB really. The new iteration (vs from 2009), I wouldn't use it on the screen nowadays anymore as it seems to smear quite a lot.

My old 2009 matte screen I can still put absolute elbow grease force into it with zero fears of damaging any coating (14 yrs constant cleaning).

For my M2..well...there were pit marks on there after 3 months after much babying really. Due to circumstance of an unfortunate liquid spill, the screen (and everything else) was replaced and there thus far have been no such similar issues. So how do I baby things now? (as I keep my phone or laptop 7 yrs+):

1. Swifer to electrostaticly remove dust.
2. Apple's polishing cloth for KB, trackpad, all aluminium surfaces.
3. Apple's polishing cloth just dedicated to the screen
4. 70% ethanol wipes on screen that Apple's service department here in Germany uses.
5. ShaggyMax KB cover for lid-closed situation (KB marks left imprints on screen).
6. iKlear (unfortunate new formula) for the KB shine

Seems like a lot, quite excessive really but I'm ok with this routine after seeing the physical damage of the screen after hardly even closing the lid 3 months in.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
Pennies indeed and totally recall we've shared other threads about this issue.

I've not had as much experience, as you likely did with hardware purchase, BUT having used my 2009 (still do) MBP for the last 14 yrs of no shiny keys, then after only 3 months of the M2, having them, it's quite obvious how the material use has been very much cheapened.

I even ordered another bottle of iKlear after seeing this on my M series so soon, and just for the KB really. The new iteration (vs from 2009), I wouldn't use it on the screen nowadays anymore as it seems to smear quite a lot.

My old 2009 matte screen I can still put absolute elbow grease force into it with zero fears of damaging any coating (14 yrs constant cleaning).

For my M2..well...there were pit marks on there after 3 months after much babying really. Due to circumstance of an unfortunate liquid spill, the screen (and everything else) was replaced and there thus far have been no such similar issues. So how do I baby things now? (as I keep my phone or laptop 7 yrs+):

1. Swifer to electrostaticly remove dust.
2. Apple's polishing cloth for KB, trackpad, all aluminium surfaces.
3. Apple's polishing cloth just dedicated to the screen
4. 70% ethanol wipes on screen that Apple's service department here in Germany uses.
5. ShaggyMax KB cover for lid-closed situation (KB marks left imprints on screen).
6. iKlear (unfortunate new formula) for the KB shine

Seems like a lot, quite excessive really but I'm ok with this routine after seeing the physical damage of the screen after hardly even closing the lid 3 months in.
Click to expand...

I would highly recommend closing the lid after each time using your laptop. That way no dust can fall onto the screen. Use a flashlight after each use before closing the lid to check for dust or dirt specs stuck onto the screen. I saw post on Reddit awhile ago from a M3 Pro user who never cleaned his screen and 4 months in, he had all these specs stuck on his screen that he was unable to remove. This is why I always remove dust from the screen before closing the lid. And if there are any stubborn particles that won't wipe off easy, I will spray down the entire screen with water and clean the entire screen.

Cleaning the entire screen is a good thing to do for maintenance.

And I agree with other laptops. Ive owned at least 25 laptops in my life and not a single one ever developed shiny keys. Apple should take a hint on the Surface Pro Type covers. The material that Microsoft uses on their keys is grade A. Doesn't remotely shine after heavy usage over several years and I would wipe it down once every 6 months if that.
 
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DeepSix said:
Well your post is encouraging to hear, if it's true that M4 laptops won't get shiny as quickly. But Im quite confident that Apple is still using the same cheap ABS plastic on the M4 laptops compared to all previous models.
Click to expand...

There's no doubt they're still ABS plastic. I'm not sure if they can even make keys the way they want them using PBT plastics. There's a reason why ABS is more common and cost is only one of them.

Anyway, the finish feels different. My typical experience with the old keys is that they're like magnets for oil. If I even touch them, I can see a smudge from my finger on them. That doesn't seem to happen with these or at least if it does, the light doesn't reflect in a way where you can see it easily.
 
My early-2020 Intel MBA got shiny keys relatively quickly.

My 2024 M4 MBP bought last November - used pretty much daily - doesn't have shiny keys at all (yet, but so far so good).

Also, the keyboard design is different - it's one piece rather than individual keys punched through the case. I'm more confident that when I give the keyboard a few wipes with a damp cloth (on rare occasions with some dish-washing liquid) it won't drip into the innards. It didn't stop me doing the same with the previous laptops though to no ill effect.
 
I like my shiny keys. Shows that I use my stuff, that it is appreciated, that there is a connection between man and machine. For me, It’s a unique and personal touch, along with the little dings and scratches…and wear and tear of my own body :)
 
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smirking said:
There's no doubt they're still ABS plastic. I'm not sure if they can even make keys the way they want them using PBT plastics. There's a reason why ABS is more common and cost is only one of them.

Anyway, the finish feels different. My typical experience with the old keys is that they're like magnets for oil. If I even touch them, I can see a smudge from my finger on them. That doesn't seem to happen with these or at least if it does, the light doesn't reflect in a way where you can see it easily.
Click to expand...

I no longer have a M3 MBA to compare the keys but it would be nice if the finish on the M4 Pro is in fact different. It will be interesting to see how the M4 Pro keys look further as time goes on. The M4 has only been out for 7 months but it should be enough time to judge if it shines less than previous generation MacBooks.
 
smirking said:
There's no doubt they're still ABS plastic. I'm not sure if they can even make keys the way they want them using PBT plastics. There's a reason why ABS is more common and cost is only one of them.

Anyway, the finish feels different. My typical experience with the old keys is that they're like magnets for oil. If I even touch them, I can see a smudge from my finger on them. That doesn't seem to happen with these or at least if it does, the light doesn't reflect in a way where you can see it easily.
Click to expand...
Is it even possible to do PBT keys with light shining through them for the backlit keys?
 
ignatius345 said:
Is it even possible to do PBT keys with light shining through them for the backlit keys?
Click to expand...
I have these “pudding” keycaps that are PBT and translucent, but they’re chonky.

Don't know how accurate this is, but it sounds reasonable. I was told by someone that PBT is actually brittle at very thin dimensions which is why ABS is so common for ultra low profile style keyboards.
 
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Typed on the MacBook keyboard yesterday for 5 minutes (I limited it because I didn't want to accidentally shine the keys🙄) and was instantly reminded just how poor it is compared to my mechanical keyboards. It's not even close.

Maybe I've been too spoiled using only mechanical keyboards for the last 5 years. My biggest gripe with the MacBook keyboard is how cheap the keys and feedback feels. Feels like I'm going to damage the keys if I press with the ever so slightest pressure. Just not satisfying to press the keys. It's so inferior to any mechanical.

After I used the MacBook keyboard, I had to stick a flashlight to all the keys to make sure I didn't glisten them like marbles. 🙄
 
thadoggfather said:
Shiny keys with a nice thunk are better than the flimsy keys that are shine resistant or delayed-tant.
Click to expand...

Or non shiny keys with a nice thunk. It's called a mechanical keyboard. Very tough to go back to a crappy MacBook keyboard with rattle and loose keys with inconsistent feedback after using a dampened mechanical keyboard for so long.
 
DeepSix said:
I would highly recommend closing the lid after each time using your laptop. That way no dust can fall onto the screen. Use a flashlight after each use before closing the lid to check for dust or dirt specs stuck onto the screen. I saw post on Reddit awhile ago from a M3 Pro user who never cleaned his screen and 4 months in, he had all these specs stuck on his screen that he was unable to remove. This is why I always remove dust from the screen before closing the lid. And if there are any stubborn particles that won't wipe off easy, I will spray down the entire screen with water and clean the entire screen.

Cleaning the entire screen is a good thing to do for maintenance.

And I agree with other laptops. Ive owned at least 25 laptops in my life and not a single one ever developed shiny keys. Apple should take a hint on the Surface Pro Type covers. The material that Microsoft uses on their keys is grade A. Doesn't remotely shine after heavy usage over several years and I would wipe it down once every 6 months if that.
Click to expand...
I really should close the lid more often.

I used to use an ostrich feather brush but have for years now used the Swiffer products for dusting screen or HiFi gear, including piano finishes. Seem to work well as the dust isn't just merely moved to the almost same location.
 
Alpha Centauri said:
I really should close the lid more often.

I used to use an ostrich feather brush but have for years now used the Swiffer products for dusting screen or HiFi gear, including piano finishes. Seem to work well as the dust isn't just merely moved to the almost same location.
Click to expand...

It can be tedious to do everytime, sticking a flashlight to the laptop to check for dust but I believe over time it will benefit the laptop.

With macBook screens I wouldn't be comfortable having dirt and other stuff stuck to the screen. I feel that the screens that MacBooks use are more delicate than any other laptop out there.
 
I highly recommend using these for removing all oils from hands and fingers before using the MacBook keyboards. It does work great when you're unable to wash your hands before.

71x+g0eozJL._AC_SL1500_.jpg
 
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