ThinkSecret updates with concerns that the DDR Motherboards may be delaying the introduction of the next geneartion PowerMacs.
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- https://www.macrumors.com/2002/02/25/ddr-powermacs/
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DDR PowerMacs?
- Thread starter arn
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Well...
...lack of DDR is probably the biggest performance hangup of the current Powermacs, so I hope they iron out those problems.
...lack of DDR is probably the biggest performance hangup of the current Powermacs, so I hope they iron out those problems.
jeez this just sucks. its been so long since apple had a decent pro desktop. now problems with the motherboards, and no one is even talking g5 anymore. its disgusting how apple is holding on to the g4 way beyond its life. let it go apple. its got a cozy home in a beautiful new imac. let the powermacs move on. the g4 was only slated to go 1ghz. now they have "revised" the roadmap to take it kicking and screamning a few measly steps further. get over it people. there must be some seriousl issues with the g5 if moto is so interested into beating the dead horse that is the g4 powermac. im disgusted with all of this. why doesnt apple just drop moto on is starstartstar. let ibm take over and go shopping for a new third wheel. so much for steve's "vision." the g4 was revolutionary 4 years ago, now its just an anachronism. especially with osx highlighting all of the processor's short comings. i mean have u used a dual ghz g4? sure its fast. but just the fact that we even talk about the time it takes to load a simple window, or bring up a window with a lot of items is ridiculous. we shouldnt even be able to tell the difference in simple system level tasks like that over apple's entire product line. that should be so low level a task that it is done properly and indistinguishably fast by all macs. and yet apples ghz processor cant even do a decent job.
thanks for the operating system of the future steve, now how about some hardware that can run it properly?
thanks for the operating system of the future steve, now how about some hardware that can run it properly?
hahaha Beej ur great. hahaha.i think ur prayers are being answered by the idiots at moto.
id rather see apple not release any more power macs until the g5 is done even if it takes 12 months. let the g5 be a real big advance, blow everyone away. and dont waste resources on something else in the meantime. if they keep cannabalizing all of the g5's features and slapping them maphazardly onto the g4 then the g5 wont be quite so impressive to the masses. like i said g4 powermacs... let them die siliently. its time for the next revolution in desktop computing.
I agree. But Apple will probably try to sell us the "DDR myth" or the "fast bus" fallacy next...
I hope the rumours that IBM might make the "G5", or whatever they might chose to call it, are true...
Waiting...
Well...I'm growing tired of the wait. It's getting harder and harder using this 1st gen G4 350mhz machine. I can deal with it but when MWTY comes and goes without new G5 hardware OR MWNY comes and goes without new G5 hardware then the wait for a G5 "will become very tiresome"(SNL Deiter skit).
The wait is only getting hard because I keep reading these damn rumor sites and getting my hopes up. If I had just not read the rumor sites then I would be ok.
See...when I make the jump to a new machine I want it to be a big one. Obviously getting any new machine from the current lineup would be a big jump but not like a move to a G5 with some crazy a** case.
Well...I'm growing tired of the wait. It's getting harder and harder using this 1st gen G4 350mhz machine. I can deal with it but when MWTY comes and goes without new G5 hardware OR MWNY comes and goes without new G5 hardware then the wait for a G5 "will become very tiresome"(SNL Deiter skit).
The wait is only getting hard because I keep reading these damn rumor sites and getting my hopes up. If I had just not read the rumor sites then I would be ok.
See...when I make the jump to a new machine I want it to be a big one. Obviously getting any new machine from the current lineup would be a big jump but not like a move to a G5 with some crazy a** case.
Well said AmbitiousLemon
I have to say that the G4 PowerMac just isn't impressive any more.
What do we have in the professional Mac box?
DDR - no, ATA 133 - no, G5 -certainly not for a long time....
Apple have really let the ball drop for far too long.
2 years ago we were in a decent position related to the P3s and early athlons that were shipping. They had the clock speed advantage, but even a quick look at Barefeats.com tells you that the Pro-level Macs aren't keeping pace with the top PCs.
Fast system bus please? I want to get myself a new Mac for recording audio _this summer_ and I'd like it to be a _really fast one_ with a better chip architecture. The G4 has had its day as a pro-level processor, and they can do what they like to it, lengthening the pipeline etc, but it just seems to me that Apple can't make claims about MHz myth when they're using the same tricks to get more out of the Moto processors, giving the Apollo G4s false longevity.
The Dunepilot
I have to say that the G4 PowerMac just isn't impressive any more.
What do we have in the professional Mac box?
DDR - no, ATA 133 - no, G5 -certainly not for a long time....
Apple have really let the ball drop for far too long.
2 years ago we were in a decent position related to the P3s and early athlons that were shipping. They had the clock speed advantage, but even a quick look at Barefeats.com tells you that the Pro-level Macs aren't keeping pace with the top PCs.
Fast system bus please? I want to get myself a new Mac for recording audio _this summer_ and I'd like it to be a _really fast one_ with a better chip architecture. The G4 has had its day as a pro-level processor, and they can do what they like to it, lengthening the pipeline etc, but it just seems to me that Apple can't make claims about MHz myth when they're using the same tricks to get more out of the Moto processors, giving the Apollo G4s false longevity.
The Dunepilot
Relax. Give it 6 months.
Realize: many of the hundreds of vendors that Apple, IBM, and Moto have been using and subsiquently their vendors and so on have been either entrenched against an adverse market or killed by it.
The initial release of the new machines we'll see at MWNY were probably first scheduled for this spring's seybold. The whole process is lagging a bit currently, not just Apple or Moto.
The current high end default G4 is Maxed out for RAM and comes with 2 80Gb HDs. Apple only does this when they're gonna discontinue a case.
Realize: many of the hundreds of vendors that Apple, IBM, and Moto have been using and subsiquently their vendors and so on have been either entrenched against an adverse market or killed by it.
The initial release of the new machines we'll see at MWNY were probably first scheduled for this spring's seybold. The whole process is lagging a bit currently, not just Apple or Moto.
The current high end default G4 is Maxed out for RAM and comes with 2 80Gb HDs. Apple only does this when they're gonna discontinue a case.
Too true. The Pentium III is 3 to 4 YEARS old, and no one in Windoze world's complaining about that.....
No one in the windows world complains because most of them are stupid and dont know jack ****ing crap about PCs. And aslso the PC experts dont complain because they dont care, the are half intelligent and use athlons.
How long did it take thinksecret to assume this???
For ****s sake, they should read this forum and realise its what i for one have been saying now for 2 months.
Look at the facts
The original PIII was announced at the end of Feb 99 (in fact, 3 years today).
The G4 7400 was announced in a Powermac in September of that same year.
So, there was a few months lag in getting the G4 out of the door after the P3. So what? Well, in case you hadn't noticed, Mac users are no longer in the enviable position of being a processor generation ahead, as we were with the G3 against the PII. We don't remotely match clock speed, and Intel have leapfrogged to a whole new generation of processor.
Noone's complaining about the PIII because they have a PIV and a damn fast system bus available to them as a high-end option. Moreover, you don't even see many PIIIs these days because the PIVs are so cheap. Mac users demand and expect more speed and architecture innovation than we've seen in the last 2 years. I know that a lot of people solely blame Moto for the problems, but IBM haven't exactly stepped into the breach because they're also concerned about their embedded bottom line.
Ultimately the AIM alliance is hurting Apple's ability to gain new converts. If they'd shipped a MUCH faster G4 or a DDR motherboard last month maybe people would be more optimistic. Instead it looks like they're
a)waiting to release all the goodies with the G5
b)they're having problems, which is where this thread started from
The original PIII was announced at the end of Feb 99 (in fact, 3 years today).
The G4 7400 was announced in a Powermac in September of that same year.
So, there was a few months lag in getting the G4 out of the door after the P3. So what? Well, in case you hadn't noticed, Mac users are no longer in the enviable position of being a processor generation ahead, as we were with the G3 against the PII. We don't remotely match clock speed, and Intel have leapfrogged to a whole new generation of processor.
Noone's complaining about the PIII because they have a PIV and a damn fast system bus available to them as a high-end option. Moreover, you don't even see many PIIIs these days because the PIVs are so cheap. Mac users demand and expect more speed and architecture innovation than we've seen in the last 2 years. I know that a lot of people solely blame Moto for the problems, but IBM haven't exactly stepped into the breach because they're also concerned about their embedded bottom line.
Ultimately the AIM alliance is hurting Apple's ability to gain new converts. If they'd shipped a MUCH faster G4 or a DDR motherboard last month maybe people would be more optimistic. Instead it looks like they're
a)waiting to release all the goodies with the G5
b)they're having problems, which is where this thread started from
Wouldn't it be nice if they came out and surprised us with QBM (provided it is faster, there was talk of latency). I didn't see Apples name on the QBM group though
Who cares what they call the chip? The apollo could have been called a G5 to make you happy. Quit getting so hung up on a name. My new dual gig screams, and it will hold its own for years. You people bitch for no good reason. Apple has the best computers, and all you do it complain. Besides, don't you think that apple wants to sell you a better computer? What do you think they do over there all day long, but make better machines.
The need for g5
I agree that the new g4's are fast and very useful.
Yet I think that there is more at stake here than merely getting a
machine that is useful for our purposes at the moment.
There is an opportunity that needs to be taken advantage of, by Apple. They have set it up and seem to be having trouble following through.
Namely delivering the final and defeating blow to the ugly Micro/Intel juggernaut.
Apple has created a grand scenario with its digital hub, great design and the sweet osx. Bring ing the potential for a new era in computing that we all feel is arrving. These creations make pc's pale in comparison. The final act will be the crushing weight of new hardware that will deliver apple from the stat and spec wars
so gazed upon as gospel by the masses.
To reign supreme and deliver the world from big brother and its attempt to dominate all that it desires to control.
I think that Jobs obviously knows this and is equally angered that his timing is being twarted by hardware problems, the showman that he is. I applaud his demeaner and calm in a situation which I would be red with angst!
I hope he pulls it through, I will buy it when he does.
I have faith in the fact that Jobs knows the value of his work on a
socialogical and cultural level.
I just hope that my heart can stand the strain of waiting and reading all the posts for rumors of he next move.
I agree that the new g4's are fast and very useful.Yet I think that there is more at stake here than merely getting a
machine that is useful for our purposes at the moment.
There is an opportunity that needs to be taken advantage of, by Apple. They have set it up and seem to be having trouble following through.
Namely delivering the final and defeating blow to the ugly Micro/Intel juggernaut.
Apple has created a grand scenario with its digital hub, great design and the sweet osx. Bring ing the potential for a new era in computing that we all feel is arrving. These creations make pc's pale in comparison. The final act will be the crushing weight of new hardware that will deliver apple from the stat and spec wars
so gazed upon as gospel by the masses.
To reign supreme and deliver the world from big brother and its attempt to dominate all that it desires to control.
I think that Jobs obviously knows this and is equally angered that his timing is being twarted by hardware problems, the showman that he is. I applaud his demeaner and calm in a situation which I would be red with angst!
I hope he pulls it through, I will buy it when he does.
I have faith in the fact that Jobs knows the value of his work on a
socialogical and cultural level.
I just hope that my heart can stand the strain of waiting and reading all the posts for rumors of he next move.
well put grok, and optimistic to boot.
it is easy to get anxious reading posts here. but i think most people not associated with the rumor boards still have a feeling that apple has fallen behind these last two years.
ibm has done some truly amazing things with the g3, and has used the g3 in other products so they dont have to rely on apple. this is why i think moto needs to be dropped. they havent been able to keep the g4 faster than the g3. its pretty sad that apple has to use slower g3 just so they dont out perform the g4s. if ibm can do that with a g3 i would just them to develop the next step. moto needs to be dropped, they have dropped the ball for apple a number of times. wait til the g5 is finshed. drop the moto. apple and ibm buy out the moto microprocessor division. ibm and apple continue development while apple goes shopping for a new member to fill out the triumvirate.
it seems so simple. i can only guess moto has something really great to keep apple interested after all the problems they have given apple. i mean have you guys read the transcripts of steve's comments on moto. the guy used the f-word more time in one sentence than i thought possible. steve isnt happy with moto. so i wonder why apple is staying so loyal.
it is easy to get anxious reading posts here. but i think most people not associated with the rumor boards still have a feeling that apple has fallen behind these last two years.
ibm has done some truly amazing things with the g3, and has used the g3 in other products so they dont have to rely on apple. this is why i think moto needs to be dropped. they havent been able to keep the g4 faster than the g3. its pretty sad that apple has to use slower g3 just so they dont out perform the g4s. if ibm can do that with a g3 i would just them to develop the next step. moto needs to be dropped, they have dropped the ball for apple a number of times. wait til the g5 is finshed. drop the moto. apple and ibm buy out the moto microprocessor division. ibm and apple continue development while apple goes shopping for a new member to fill out the triumvirate.
it seems so simple. i can only guess moto has something really great to keep apple interested after all the problems they have given apple. i mean have you guys read the transcripts of steve's comments on moto. the guy used the f-word more time in one sentence than i thought possible. steve isnt happy with moto. so i wonder why apple is staying so loyal.
Angry Steve!
I am sure that Steve is very angry with Moto!
I dont think that he is being loyal to Moto, considering they are such an unreliable company. Not to mention that Jobs is certain to see this as his legacy to the world of computing and history, there is a lot at stake.
I think that there has been a lengthy timeline to the G5 or upgrades to the G4 and its motherboards. And its not feasible to cut off Moto at this point, when they are hopefully nearing completion of the timeline and its tasks. So Jobs is bearing the brunt of being saddled with a idle headed partner. A situation most of us have experienced in business or life.
He is grinning and bearing it, the fact that he sometimes verbally
speaks ill of his associates merely proofs the fact of what i spoke of previously. That Jobs is aware of the need for the proper hardware to complete his plan and is neither depriving us or waiting for anything other than fate to lend a hand in dealing with a difficult situation with Moto.
Hopefully he has a trick up his sleeve to push it through.
I wouldnt be surprised if a certain competing company is paying Moto off to drag its heels!
I am sure that Steve is very angry with Moto!
I dont think that he is being loyal to Moto, considering they are such an unreliable company. Not to mention that Jobs is certain to see this as his legacy to the world of computing and history, there is a lot at stake.
I think that there has been a lengthy timeline to the G5 or upgrades to the G4 and its motherboards. And its not feasible to cut off Moto at this point, when they are hopefully nearing completion of the timeline and its tasks. So Jobs is bearing the brunt of being saddled with a idle headed partner. A situation most of us have experienced in business or life.
He is grinning and bearing it, the fact that he sometimes verbally
speaks ill of his associates merely proofs the fact of what i spoke of previously. That Jobs is aware of the need for the proper hardware to complete his plan and is neither depriving us or waiting for anything other than fate to lend a hand in dealing with a difficult situation with Moto.
Hopefully he has a trick up his sleeve to push it through.
I wouldnt be surprised if a certain competing company is paying Moto off to drag its heels!
rumor site
one thing i noticed about reading these rumor site is that it brings people down... I just got my Dual Ghz about 2 weeks ago and people are already bashing the hell out its performance and how sucky it is. When will you guys ever get enough power? the answer is never... What do the majority of people do on computers? They write, play games, listen to music, and occasionally do some imaging work. The normal consumer does not need all that power in a computer. Sure, it would be nice to have all that, but how much power really is enough power? There is not a set standard for how powerful a computer gets...until the day everything is done instantly, maybe. until then...stop complaining about how "slow" all the new computers are and focus on what you need to do with it instead...stop whinning like a bunch of peecee users, of whom does a lot of complaining cuz i live with 3 of them...
just my thought...
one thing i noticed about reading these rumor site is that it brings people down... I just got my Dual Ghz about 2 weeks ago and people are already bashing the hell out its performance and how sucky it is. When will you guys ever get enough power? the answer is never... What do the majority of people do on computers? They write, play games, listen to music, and occasionally do some imaging work. The normal consumer does not need all that power in a computer. Sure, it would be nice to have all that, but how much power really is enough power? There is not a set standard for how powerful a computer gets...until the day everything is done instantly, maybe. until then...stop complaining about how "slow" all the new computers are and focus on what you need to do with it instead...stop whinning like a bunch of peecee users, of whom does a lot of complaining cuz i live with 3 of them...
just my thought...
Performance JUMP
The main thing that's holding me back from buying a new mac is that I would really like to buy a desktop that has a massive performance jump over my powerbook G3.
I'm glad you're all happy with your Dual G4s, and I'm sure I would be too, but part of me wants an entirely new MoBo with a significantly faster chip than Apple are currently shipping so that I can run OS X and feel that perfomance is a lot better than I get out of 9, and no matter what everyone tells you, there's still a perfomance hit to suffer when you make the transition.
But I guess that's the nature of these boards - they always stress the 'I want' people over the 'thank you's from others.
If we weren't so passionate about the subject there wouldn't be so many post though....
The main thing that's holding me back from buying a new mac is that I would really like to buy a desktop that has a massive performance jump over my powerbook G3.
I'm glad you're all happy with your Dual G4s, and I'm sure I would be too, but part of me wants an entirely new MoBo with a significantly faster chip than Apple are currently shipping so that I can run OS X and feel that perfomance is a lot better than I get out of 9, and no matter what everyone tells you, there's still a perfomance hit to suffer when you make the transition.
But I guess that's the nature of these boards - they always stress the 'I want' people over the 'thank you's from others.
If we weren't so passionate about the subject there wouldn't be so many post though....