I cannot believe you are complaining so much over 1 dead pixel. I have 1 dead pixel on my Sony Trinitron monitor at work, and it does not bother me. I never even notice it. I spend a minimum of 20 hours on this machine a week and I have been using this machine for over a year. I'm not blind I have 20/13 vision, and I always have a white background. I do not see how 1 dead pixel can bother you so bad. Really I don't see how you can pay it much attention unless you are right on top of the monitor. I think you should try suggested methods before returning it.
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Dead Pixel on my new 17" iMac - options?
- Thread starter Apple!Freak
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Thats funny.
I have 3 lcd monitors a 3 year old sony laptop,a new ibook screen, and a hp monitor. The only one with a stuck pixel is the hp and it has a pixel on the far right that is stuck to blue. After reading this thread i tried massaging it and now the pixel is gone!.skubish said:
Guys, listen.
For all of you that think 1 pixel is no-big-deal. It might not be to you, but it is to me. People are different (if you haven't noticed already). One dead pixel bothers me. End of story. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. I paid a lot of money (at least to me) for a product that I expect to perform without flaw. There really is nothing more to say about this. And regardless, it's not just the one dead pixel. The latch connecting the front part of the case to the back part, is broken as it's so loose I could actually pull it off with one finger (even tech support at Apple said that is not how it should be). And not to mention, the warped part of the body where the screen and case meets just above the Apple logo.
Also, I did try to massage it out, no luck.
For all of you that think 1 pixel is no-big-deal. It might not be to you, but it is to me. People are different (if you haven't noticed already). One dead pixel bothers me. End of story. If you don't like it, I'm sorry. I paid a lot of money (at least to me) for a product that I expect to perform without flaw. There really is nothing more to say about this. And regardless, it's not just the one dead pixel. The latch connecting the front part of the case to the back part, is broken as it's so loose I could actually pull it off with one finger (even tech support at Apple said that is not how it should be). And not to mention, the warped part of the body where the screen and case meets just above the Apple logo.
Also, I did try to massage it out, no luck.
apple: I hear you loud and clear.
dead pixels are my biggest fear with ordering online, thats why I dont order online.
I would only buy a PB if I can check its screen on the spot or if the reseller guarantees me to run a dead pixel test before handing the device over.
fully agree with you that the whole computing experience is disturbed by such miserable dead pixels and that it is the company's reliability to deliver flawless quality for a lot of money.
fight for it, cancel your credit card payment or whatever, but I would not accept it.
but then again, next time make sure you find a way to check the device before you actually hand over the money ...
dead pixels are my biggest fear with ordering online, thats why I dont order online.
I would only buy a PB if I can check its screen on the spot or if the reseller guarantees me to run a dead pixel test before handing the device over.
fully agree with you that the whole computing experience is disturbed by such miserable dead pixels and that it is the company's reliability to deliver flawless quality for a lot of money.
fight for it, cancel your credit card payment or whatever, but I would not accept it.
but then again, next time make sure you find a way to check the device before you actually hand over the money ...
Apple, I'm also with ya a 100%. The Mac is NOT a low-end computer. A Mac to the computer world is no different than a BMW is in the automotive world, for they are both marketed as more than what they are. They both occupy the high-end luxury/performance niche in their respective categories, and as such, you should not compromise on what you expect.
I've been driving BMW's just about all my life, which is now going on 61 years. I currently drive an M5, and I'll tell ya this. When I picked up the car at the dealer, I did a walk around. You can bet your bippy that if there was a dent anywhere on that car, I would have raised a stink.
I have a 20" iMac on order, and if I found a dead pixel on the screen, I would handle it the same way as if I discovered a dent on my new M5 upon delivery.
I can't believe the complacency of some here in this thread. Guys, we are paying a premium price for our Macs and we should hold Apple to the same standards as they market...................and to accept anything less is basically telling Apple, "Ya know what. Your QC on your displays is fine with us. Yeah, a few monitors come out with dead pixels, but it doesn't matter. We'll accept them anyway.............and ya know why? Because we like ya, and we fell for the BS line that says, "Hey, don't expect all the pixels to work, for if they did, we would have to raise our prices" !!!"
No...........a better answer would be........."Get it right or we'll stop buying your computers".
Believe me, I understand the love affair that we have for this company, but don't let it blind you into a state of complacency by accepting that which is less than what you are expecting, and expecting a monitor with all the pixels working is NOT an over-the-top expectation.
I've been driving BMW's just about all my life, which is now going on 61 years. I currently drive an M5, and I'll tell ya this. When I picked up the car at the dealer, I did a walk around. You can bet your bippy that if there was a dent anywhere on that car, I would have raised a stink.
I have a 20" iMac on order, and if I found a dead pixel on the screen, I would handle it the same way as if I discovered a dent on my new M5 upon delivery.
I can't believe the complacency of some here in this thread. Guys, we are paying a premium price for our Macs and we should hold Apple to the same standards as they market...................and to accept anything less is basically telling Apple, "Ya know what. Your QC on your displays is fine with us. Yeah, a few monitors come out with dead pixels, but it doesn't matter. We'll accept them anyway.............and ya know why? Because we like ya, and we fell for the BS line that says, "Hey, don't expect all the pixels to work, for if they did, we would have to raise our prices" !!!"
No...........a better answer would be........."Get it right or we'll stop buying your computers".
Believe me, I understand the love affair that we have for this company, but don't let it blind you into a state of complacency by accepting that which is less than what you are expecting, and expecting a monitor with all the pixels working is NOT an over-the-top expectation.
cyberone said:
Well, cyber, being that I've been in retail all my life, I kinda have a handle on the general mentality of retail organizations and manufactures and how they work.
First off, I wouldn't get upset........no matter how much I was seething on the inside. My first reaction would be that I would assume that Apple would make it right, so I'd just point out the defect.........that's it. I would not make any demands for a replacement, repair or anything. All I would do is point out the defect, throw the ball totally in their court and not say anything and very politely wait for a response. Once you point out the defect, don't say anything. Wait for their response.
I would think that in most instances like this, they would come up with a solution that would be satisfactory..........."Whoa.......bummer.......here, let me get ya a new one, or an RA (return authorization) for you to get a new one......for it's obviously defective.
Now they may not do that, but may say, "Yeah, so what would you like us to do about this?" Perfect........they asked a valid question and they deserve an equally valid answer. "I'd like one that is not defective".
Or.......they may say this, not likely, but they may.......maybe not in these exact words, but the implied meaning would be the same. "So..............what in the hell are you complaining about. It's just one damn pixel that's not working. You're lucky it's not 5 dead pixels." In that instance, I would ask for an immediate replacement. If the person that I was talking to wouldn't accommodate me, I'd escalate it to the next level. And if that person couldn't accommodate me, I'd take it to the next level, and continue that process until I got what I paid for. Believe me, somebody in the food chain WILL take responsibility and make it right for you.
But........I wouldn't get angry, or let my emotions get the best of me. Stay calm, but firm in communicating EXACTLY what you, the customer, expects, and put it in such a way, that your expectations are NOT out of line in the least, and that all you really want is what you paid for, and what Apple has so successfully marketed in their marketing campaigns, which is a computer that is heads above anything else that is available in the market........a high end luxury computer that you are willing to pay premium dollars for, but not willing to expect something less than what Apple has always marketed, for you have been a devoted Apple customer for years, your whole family uses Macs, and you have totally been satisfied in the past, and this is first time that an issue like this has ever come up, and you have total confidence that Apple will do the right thing, and that is, to protect the good will that they have cultivated with you over the years.
No way, my advice to the OP, raise hell if you want to. Get the damned pixel fixed. Don't be misled by the others in this forum, because while they may own shares in NASDAQ/APPL, they sure as hell *aren't* helping you.
If everything fails, just leave the box at the store, ask politely to see the manager, tell them to keep the box while pull out the phone dialing for the attorney general/local consumer rights body/credit card helpline.
You are not obligated to accept DEFECTIVE goods.
The Pismo is made in.. 1999?
Manufacturing processes have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY improved in 6 years my friend.
Besides, not to deny the fact that Apples are generally a magnitude more expensive than competiting PCs too. Wah? Charge high prices but can't maintain quality?
In the past 5 years I owned 2 Thinkpads... and went through 2 Eizo LCD upgrades, and finally using a NEC 2080UX+.
5 LCD panels my friend, *ZERO* defects so far.
If I get one tomorrow I sure as hell am *not* taking the downgrade.
If everything fails, just leave the box at the store, ask politely to see the manager, tell them to keep the box while pull out the phone dialing for the attorney general/local consumer rights body/credit card helpline.
You are not obligated to accept DEFECTIVE goods.
pubwvj said:
The Pismo is made in.. 1999?
Manufacturing processes have WAAAAAAAAAAAAAY improved in 6 years my friend.
Besides, not to deny the fact that Apples are generally a magnitude more expensive than competiting PCs too. Wah? Charge high prices but can't maintain quality?
In the past 5 years I owned 2 Thinkpads... and went through 2 Eizo LCD upgrades, and finally using a NEC 2080UX+.
5 LCD panels my friend, *ZERO* defects so far.
If I get one tomorrow I sure as hell am *not* taking the downgrade.
CalGrunt said:
Strawman argument. You give Apple (or any service staff) way too much credit, you are assuming 1) they want to help you, 2) they will actually be so blunt as to say that.
Instead of that response how about this? "Sorry sir, our sales policy explicitly states that returns may only be processed for defects that exceed 5 defective pixels off the centre of the monitor, or 2 defects near the centre. Your LCD's performance is perfectly within manufacturing tolerance." No acceptable? "In that case sir, may I take it that you wish to return this product? Please do note that all returns are subject to a 15% restocking fee"
What are you going to say now?
Btw if I am apple I will gladly take the defective unit back, put it in another box, and probably sell it refurbished to the next sucker.
Profiteering through restocking fees alone!
generik said:
I'd say, "You, sir, may be willing to lose a devoted Apple customer over not accepting responsibility for a defective product, and believe me, dead pixels by definition means that something is not quite right. This may be within YOUR manufacturing tolerances, but is sure isn't within my purchasing tolerances. What I want is either a replacement or this to be fixed. If all you are going to do is take the easy way out by offering me the "privilege" of returning the product and incurring a 15% restocking fee, thereby losing a customer, let me see if your boss is also willing to lose an Apple customer that has spent 10's of thousands of dollars with you over the years, let alone, lose a customer that your company has spent millions of advertising dollars in the effort to try and get me to buy your computers. You are squandering your companies resources and even though YOU may not realize that, I have no doubt that someone in upper management will."
And like I said, if you don't get satisfaction with who your talking to, escalate it to the next higher level. You very well may have to get beyond the sales staff or service staff level to get any kind of cooperation, but believe me, someone in upper management WILL solve this issue for you.
So yes, I believe that you can get what you pay for, but unfortunately, I also agree that your unit will more than likely be restocked and sold to someone else in the hopes that they will be complacent enough to accept a product that is defective.
If, in fact, anything under 5 dead pixels is considered within their manufacturing tolerances, than they better state so in their advertising, even if it's in small print, because if they don't do that, and then charge someone 15% for restocking for the return of said product, then they have some legal issues that they're going to eventually have to deal with.
One more thing. The very first thing that I would say if I was presented with a response like what was presented by Generik, would be, "Well, if that is your policy, why wasn't that policy communicated to me BEFORE you made the sale rather than afterwards and then charging me 15% for something that I had no idea about? Does what you are doing sound like the right thing to do?"
True, but it's interesting that you would describe a product that is completely useable as "defective." I would say that "defective" describes a good that is unusable, or the use of which is seriously impaired. One dead pixel in no way makes a screen approach that standard.
QCassidy352 said:
If a dealer delivered a new car to you with a side panel sticking out and they said it couldn't be repaired, would you consider it defective? It's useable, after all.
I'm currently battling my Honda dealer over such a problem. A side panel on the driver's side of my new 2006 Civic is jutting out. It doesn't look like they'll be able to fix it. My wife's new Civic, bought on the same day from the same dealership, is flawless. Including the two new cars I just bought from them, I've purchased five new Hondas in as many years (for myself and my wife). I expect the same quality I've seen in the past. If they can't deliver, it's going to be an uncomfortable situation for everyone involved.
I'm planning on buying a 30" cinema display. It has 4 million+ pixels. If I can't find a vendor who's willing to do a dead pixel check or accept a return if even one of them is stuck on or dead, it will probably sway me to consider a much less expensive Planar or Dell in the 24" range. Actually, I could buy two 24" Dells for less than the cost of one Apple 30".
Damn right I expect it to be perfect.
QCassidy352 said:
Huh? What if you went and plunked down 60 grand for a brand new BMW. And what if you went to pick it up, all excited about your brand new car that you've been salavating on for over a year. You pick it up and it has a small dent in the hood. It's not real noticeable, but you can see it, and what if you pointed that out to your salesman, and he said, "Yeah......so what. The car is still drivable isn't it? What are you complaining about?"
Would you walk out of that dealership a happy camper??
There's a difference between a car and an LCD. It is not normal for any car to have a dent or weird looking side panel. One or 2 dead pixels is completley normal when it comes to LCDs. Costs of LCD manufacturing would multiply greatly if manufacturers had to check every single monitor to make sure every single pixel worked. That, plus the amount of LCD panels that would be thrown away would be extremley epensive. And this is one pixel, out of a million or so, that's dead. I think a 1:1,000,000 ratio of dead pixels to good pixels is pretty darn good.
That said, my PowerBook does not have a single dead pixel. Neither did my iBook. And if they did, would I raise hell? Certainly not over one or 2 dead pixels. I don't know how you guys notice it either, my Samsung 15" LCD has a single dead pixel, and I can't even notice it unless I intentionally look for it. One single dead pixel out of 786,432 total pixels and I can hardly notice it. I don't know why you guys with higher res displays and more overall pixels are making such a huge deal when you probably can hardly see it either.
That said, my PowerBook does not have a single dead pixel. Neither did my iBook. And if they did, would I raise hell? Certainly not over one or 2 dead pixels. I don't know how you guys notice it either, my Samsung 15" LCD has a single dead pixel, and I can't even notice it unless I intentionally look for it. One single dead pixel out of 786,432 total pixels and I can hardly notice it. I don't know why you guys with higher res displays and more overall pixels are making such a huge deal when you probably can hardly see it either.
thirdkind said:
didnt canon just announce a new LCD technology which is guarantueed dead pixel free?
here another article of interest:
http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/tvs/0,39026023,40004163,00.htm
here another article of interest:
http://www.cnet.com.au/hometheatre/tvs/0,39026023,40004163,00.htm
yg17 said:
Exactly, thank you. These car analogies just aren't apt. A dead pixel may not be intended, but it's not abnormal, either. Sometimes it just happens, even when the manufacturer has done everything that it should have. If a brand new car had a physical disformity, however, the maker did something negligent, either during or after production.
In legal terms, the difference is between strict liability (holding someone responsible for the outcome of their actions, regardless of whether they did anything *wrong*) and negligence-based liability (even if the outcome is bad, a person is only held responsible if their actions were negligent).
I'm all for holding manufacturers liable for problems with their products that are caused by negligence (a dent in a car, for example), but not for problems that arise even in correctly manufactured goods.
If you really think that 1 dead pixel justifies an exchange, I hope you're prepared to pay more than you do now for anything with an LCD, but it doesn't sound like you guys are. You want higher quality control at the same prices... the market doesn't work that way.
edit: oh, and also, if you look at my last comment, I wasn't saying that just because a product is useable one automatically has no legitimate complaint, as CalGrunt seemed to infer. I was saying that if it's usable (and that usability is very slightly or not at all impaired) then I wouldn't call the product "defective." No, I wouldn't be happy with the dent on a new BMW, but the car is certainly not "defective." It's imperfect.
QCassidy352 said:
I guess, Q, that that is our main difference of opinion here, because I perceive a dead pixel as abnormal. I think that an LCD monitor should be just as "normal", without anything wrong (and again, to me, a dead pixel is "wrong") than any other product that I would purchase.
But I guess that most all of the people that purchase computers feel the way you do, for if they didn't, than I would have to assume that Apple's lawyers have consulted with upper management, and would have suggested that a disclaimer stating that 1 to 5 dead pixels on their displays is considered "normal".
(why can't I edit my posts. I hit the edit button and nothing happens.....so........... the following is an edit to the post above.....sorry)
......have suggested that a disclaimer in all of their print advertising, in small print, stating that 1 to 5 dead pixels on their displays is considered "normal".
......have suggested that a disclaimer in all of their print advertising, in small print, stating that 1 to 5 dead pixels on their displays is considered "normal".
CalGrunt said:
Well, that's a fair position to take. A stuck pixel is certainly a "flaw" in the sense that it's something that doesn't *have* to be there. Certainly, it's true that LCD's can, and often do, have nothing wrong with them whatsoever. It's just that the way I see it, the only way to guarantee that LCD's will be "flawless" is for the companies that make them to have higher quality control, and reject all panels that have *any* faults. And while that could be done, it would drive up costs, and those costs would be passed along to us, the consumers.
I'd rather pay $799 for a 20" ACD and accept the risk of having one or two stuck/dead pixels than pay $999 for a panel guaranteed to be flawless. (Ironically, I got mine when it was first released, so I paid $1299 for a 20" with a stuck pixel,
but that's neither here nor there.)All that said, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and ultimately, I think that you're right in saying that if you go high enough up, someone at apple will make an exception to the policy and replace that panel just to end the hassle and keep a customer happy. Just be aware that the cost of that replacement is being passed along to the consumers somewhere down the line.
Anyway, despite the fact that I think Apple's policy is reasonable, I hope it works out for the original poster in this thread because everybody should be happy with their mac.
what kind of fuzzy maths is that: 200 dollars extra for a guaranteed pixel free screen? you sound like that chief US-politician: spreading fears without knowing the facts.
it depends on the eyesight.
somebody may just not see a dead pixel whereas somebody with sharp eyesight feels pretty much disturbed by those bright spots.
I feel very much disturbed and if a company is able to produce dead pixel free screens I simply want one of those.
all it takes is some extra QC which most certainly wouldnt inflate the end price.
it depends on the eyesight.
somebody may just not see a dead pixel whereas somebody with sharp eyesight feels pretty much disturbed by those bright spots.
I feel very much disturbed and if a company is able to produce dead pixel free screens I simply want one of those.
all it takes is some extra QC which most certainly wouldnt inflate the end price.
QCassidy352 said:
Q, I totally agree with you that if you QC'd every LCD and only accepted those that didn't have any dead pixels, than the cost of those LCD's "MAY" rise. I have no idea what their built in percentage of failure rate is and what cost would be acceptable, so I really don't know if Apple would feel compelled to raise their prices............but they may.
But that's not my argument. Apple is selling a premium luxury high-end computer at a premium price. That's the way they are marketed. They are not marketed as a budget line of computers. So..................the general public, I would think, thinks that whatever they buy from Apple, should not have any flaws. Now if Apple had a disclaimer in their advertising stating what I said above, than I wouldn't take issue or ever suggest that anyone try to return the product. But.........there is no such disclaimer...........and so, in my mind, a customer would have every right to return the product in exchange of one that doesn't have any flaws, and I would think that there are more monitors that don't have flaws than those that do, and that fact alone would propel me over the concept that whatever I get is just the luck of the draw and I should accept whatever I draw I get.
I completely agree with Apple!freak and CalGrunt here. One dead pixel on a screen you are viewing every day is a complete and utter pain. Yes, you can train yourself to ignore/accomodate it but as far as I'm concerned after spending thousands I should not be in a situation where that is my only option.
It is for this reason that I have studiously rejected buying online, buying instead from an Apple Store (London, Regent Street) and a local reseller for my iMac and PowerBook. The iMac is a stock configuration and the store has a 14 day return policy, which was a great comfort. The Powerbook is a BTO but I reached an agreement in advance with the reseller for a potential return, which thankfully I never needed.
So my advice would be to accept the offer of a refund from Apple online and purchase from a reseller where you can have a quiet word first, in advance of a purchase to establish an understanding should you need to return it.
If you really want the current BTO options I would suggest waiting for the next iteration of the iMac where the current BTO options are likely to become standard configs anyway.
Vanilla
It is for this reason that I have studiously rejected buying online, buying instead from an Apple Store (London, Regent Street) and a local reseller for my iMac and PowerBook. The iMac is a stock configuration and the store has a 14 day return policy, which was a great comfort. The Powerbook is a BTO but I reached an agreement in advance with the reseller for a potential return, which thankfully I never needed.
So my advice would be to accept the offer of a refund from Apple online and purchase from a reseller where you can have a quiet word first, in advance of a purchase to establish an understanding should you need to return it.
If you really want the current BTO options I would suggest waiting for the next iteration of the iMac where the current BTO options are likely to become standard configs anyway.
Vanilla
QCassidy352 said:
Here's a view from a little different perspective.
Being that most of here have read about monitors having dead pixels and yet many other reports of no dead pixels whatsoever, I would imagine that, for most of us, if we ordered a new iMac or notebook, and we finally got it in our hot little hands, and with much excited anticipation, we unpacked our new baby, plugged it in and looked at the screen, and when the screen lit up we looked at it and found, lo and behold.........NO DEAD PIXELS !!! Our screens are perfect............and guess what? We didn't have to pay a premium for our perfect screen without any dead pixels !!!! And ya know why? Because some complacent schmuck got his computer with dead pixels but accepted it without returning it as defective............Thank God for them, because if it wasn't for them, I would have had to pay a higher price for my flawless LCD.
Just a little different view of the same argument, no?
The way I look at it is this. If two LCD manufactures advertised their LCD's. One manufacturer clearly stated in their advertising that customers may receive a flawd LCD with dead pixels and that if the dead pixel count was below 5, they had to accept said product, for it falls withing the manufacturing tolerances. That LCD cost 500 bucks.
Another LCD manufacturer said in their advertising that they will guarantee that their LCD's will not have any dead pixels and if you received one that did, they would exchange it, no questions asked...........and that LCD cost 10% more, hell, lets even say it would cost 15% more. For me, I would GLADLY pay an additional 10 to 15% more to buy something from a manufacturer that will stand behind the quality of their product. Wouldn't you???
All I'm saying is that Apple should clearly state in their advertising that 5 or less dead pixels does NOT constitute a product as being defective, but to tell us their stance on this AFTER we already purchased the product is not playing on the up and up. Why doesn't Apple do this? It's obvious......... it would cost them sales.
Some are more sensitive to this dead pixel issue than others. We all have different expectation levels and different tolerances for things that are not perfect. So fine, if you can pay top dollar for a computer and accept a flawed LCD and live with it, great...............but don't get on someone else's case who find themselves unable NOT to stare at that dead pixel.