Deal with inconvenience for most of Macbook Pro's useful life

[dark_mark]

Here is my take on USB C ports on new Macbook Pros. Yes it's the future and yes it will become standard. However it will not happen within a year, not even within 2 years. Maybe after 4-5 years, but then new Macbook Pro will be at the end of it's useful life and you will need to upgrade anyway.

Why I think it will take 4-5 years for industry to catch up to USB C?

It's because manufacturers(Printers, Hard Drives, Accessories) have absolutely no reason to produce USB C devices because computers with USB A command 99% marketshare. New Macbook pros will not exactly move the industry forward, because most of competing laptops support both USB A and USB C and manufacturers have 0 reason to produce USB C devices just to appease new Macbook Pro users who don't command even 1% marketshare. It makes absolutely NO sense for any manufacturer to produce USB C devices just for that 1% marketshare. If I were a manufacturer, I would rather make USB A devices only and let the MacBook owners deal with their dongles, because it's not worth it to appease that 1% marketshare and anger the other 99% who actually own USB A computers.

The industry will move to USB C only when existing USB C computers will command more than %50 marketshare and that will not happen in another 4-5 years, because as we all know the average useful lifespan of a computer is 5 years. So on average, users will buy a new PC every 5 years, which means only after about 5 years will we have USB C computers command a %50 marketshare and even then accessory manufacturers have little reason to produce USB C devices because all those new computers will support both USB A and USB C. So why not make USB A devices only and capture 100% of the market rather than only 50% with USB C?

So the question is, why buy the 2016 model and deal with inconvenience for most of it's life when you can buy a 2015 model and forget about stupid dongles? The CPU performance is actually a little worse on 2016 model, so it's a win win.

SOURCE: Me, research analyst by trade.

 

[aristobrat]

What devices do you own that actually have USB-A built in the device?

I bet you that your printer isn't.
I bet you any external hard drive you have isn't.
Digital cameras aren't.
Smartphones aren't.
Kindles/tablets aren't.

IMO, the majority of USB-A devices are wired mice/keyboards and thumb drives.

If you're a device manufacturer, you're likely to have never put a USB-A port on your product. You used micro USB or mini USB or USB-B on your products, and your customers used a USB cable with a USB-A plug on the end of the cable ... not on your device ... to plug it in their computer.

 

[dark_mark]

What devices do you own that are USB-A?

I bet you that your printer isn't.
I bet you any external hard drive you have isn't.
Digital cameras aren't.
Smartphones aren't.
Kindles/tablets aren't.

IMO, the majority of USB-A devices are wired mice/keyboards and thumb drives.

The rest of the other devices are variants of USB, but not USB-A.

By USB A ,I meant regular USB 3.0 which most people use. Look up the definition of USB A, that's the definition of the regular USB port. USB 3.0 is a specification of the protocol, while USB A is the specification for the actual port (you know the regular square one).

In other words, USB A, could be USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 or USB 3.1.

 

[ljjycss]

Manufacturers don't need to produce USB c device, they just need to put USB c cable in their boxes. Adoption of USB c actually isn't that bad. Most Android phone manufacturers already shifted to USB c.

 

[Rigby]

By USB A ,I meant regular USB 3.0 which most people use. Look up the definition of USB A, that's the definition of the regular USB port. USB 3.0 is a specification of the protocol, while USB A is the specification for the actual port (you know the regular square one).

In other words, USB A, could be USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 or USB 3.1.

USB before USB-C used asymmetric cables. Peripherals with detachable cables don't have USB type A ports, but one of the type B variants. This kind of device (e.g. most USB HDDs, printers, scanners etc.) is not a big deal, since USB-C is backwards compatible and you can simply buy appropriate USB-C to type B cables. What will cause inconvenience are primarily devices with an inbuilt type A plug or a non-detachable cable. This includes things like thumb drives, mice, keyboards, webcams, external DAC/amps, security keys and many others.

 

[cerberusss]

You're talking about 1% market share but doesn't Apple have at least 10% market share nowadays?

I do think it's true that there's not really any incentive to go to USB-C connections at the moment. I don't know what percentage of mice and keyboards is still wired, but looking at mice, there are hardly any. Keyboards, there isn't a single I could find with usb-c. Your only option there is to buy a keyboard with a detachable cable, like the CoolerMaster keyboards, and buy a USB-C cable separately.

For harddrives, the situation may be similar in 2017.

 

[dark_mark]

USB before USB-C used asymmetric cables. Peripherals with detachable cables don't have USB type A ports, but one of the type B variants. This kind of device (e.g. most USB HDDs, printers, scanners etc.) is not a big deal, since USB-C is backwards compatible and you can simply buy appropriate USB-C to type B cables. What will cause inconvenience are primarily devices with an inbuilt type A plug or a non-detachable cable. This includes things like thumb drives, mice, keyboards, webcams, external DAC/amps, security keys and many others.

Exactly and those manufacturers (of thumb drives, mice, keywords, external DAC and etc) will have no reason to produce USB C compatible devices because USB C has only 1% marketshare. Besides, manufacturers can make USB A only and will still not loose USB C customers, because competing laptops support both USB A and USB C, meaning the only people who will be inconvenienced by this are the 2016 macbook owners, since new macbooks use USB C exclusively.
[doublepost=1478365973][/doublepost]

You're talking about 1% market share but doesn't Apple have at least 10% market share nowadays?

I do think it's true that there's not really any incentive to go to USB-C connections at the moment. I don't know what percentage of mice and keyboards is still wired, but looking at mice, there are hardly any. Keyboards, there isn't a single I could find with usb-c. Your only option there is to buy a keyboard with a detachable cable, like the CoolerMaster keyboards, and buy a USB-C cable separately.

For harddrives, the situation may be similar in 2017.

Apple has only 7.4% marketshare in PC market. But of those 7.4% maybe less than 1% are USB C (Only 12" Macbooks so far).

 

[Cole Slaw]

I don't know why they went with only USB-C.
I don't see peripherals using USB-C being a big factor for quite some time. There's almost nothing available at the moment using C.
Look at Apple, even. Does their wired keyboard, external DVD drive, Beats headphones, or anything else even come with USB-C?
Looking at my 2015 13" MBP, I have 2 Thunderbolt and 2 USB A ports. Why didn't they simply replace the old Thunderbolt ports with the new USB-C/Thunderbolt ports and keep the 2 regular USB-A ports?
That way you are "future-proofing" while still being able to easily use todays peripherals.

 

[idunn]

Something arguing in favor of your proposition is the MacBook, with its single USB-C port. Released in March 2015, just how much assistance from manufacturers have its compromised owners received thus far?

 

[Rigby]

Exactly and those manufacturers (of thumb drives, mice, keywords, external DAC and etc) will have no reason to produce USB C compatible devices because USB C has only 1% marketshare. Besides, manufacturers can make USB A only and will still not loose USB C customers, because competing laptops support both USB A and USB C, meaning the only people who will be inconvenienced by this are the 2016 macbook owners, since new macbooks use USB C exclusively.

I don't disagree with your premise. I think as far as computer peripherals are concerned, the transition to USB-C (if it even happens) will take longer than people expect. And when peripherals with a USB-C plug do come out, they will be more expensive than the type A counterparts simply because they will be produced in much smaller quantities in the forseeable future.

 

[leman]

So the question is, why buy the 2016 model and deal with inconvenience for most of it's life when you can buy a 2015 model and forget about stupid dongles?

Because a) the 2015 also needs dongles for ethernet, DisplayPort, DVI monitors etc... the difference isn't that great b) USB devices do not need dongles, just a replacement cable (or call them dongles for all I care, but then admit that every single current printer and external HDD is already using a USB-A to mini-USB etc. dongle) c) you want the convenience of using a single hub to connect all your desk peripherals as well as power — something you can't do with the 2015 model and finally, d) because you are a tech enthusiast who wants to help speed up the adoption of the USB-C.
[doublepost=1478366942][/doublepost]

Something arguing in favor of your proposition is the MacBook, with its single USB-C port. Released in March 2015, just how much assistance from manufacturers have its compromised owners received thus far?

There is a number of companies producing cables, external dives, thumsdrives, hubs etc. We currently own a pair of 12" MBs and the are enough choices of peripherals for our purposes.

 

[jjlannoo]

By USB A ,I meant regular USB 3.0 which most people use. Look up the definition of USB A, that's the definition of the regular USB port. USB 3.0 is a specification of the protocol, while USB A is the specification for the actual port (you know the regular square one).

In other words, USB A, could be USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 or USB 3.1.

He's saying it's the cable not the device. Very few devices have a USB-A port on them.

 

[Capt T]

Replacement cables for USB devices


http://www.monoprice.com/pages/usb_31_type_c

Flash drives

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_7?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=usb+c+flash+drive&sprefix=USB+c+f,aps,153&crid=3N3XPK9Y2WHZI

Those of us that bought MacBook Pros in 2012 also needed dongles for various monitors and such...so now there is a new standard. Also there have been computers out for over a year now with just USB-C connections only. Both Windows and Mac

 

[fxbeta]

I don't know why they went with only USB-C.
I don't see peripherals using USB-C being a big factor for quite some time. There's almost nothing available at the moment using C.
Look at Apple, even. Does their wired keyboard, external DVD drive, Beats headphones, or anything else even come with USB-C?

Just look at the iPhone, which comes with a USB-A cable in the box. If the company that makes the computer really wants USB-C to be more widely adopted, they should speak to the company that makes the phone and have them include a USB-C cable in every box. Apple, meet Apple. Otherwise be like the old Sony with their incompatible "silos", and remember how well that turned out for them.

 

[ag29]

Manufactuers just need to include a USB C cable for their devices, if they include both a USB A and a USB C cable then it wouldn't be a problem. Also assuming it's not something where the cable is already wired in or if it's a flash drive.

But still, it'd be so much easier if Apple just stuck with USB A imo.

 

[Capt T]

Just look at the iPhone, which comes with a USB-A cable in the box. If the company that makes the computer really wants USB-C to be more widely adopted, they should speak to the company that makes the phone and have them include a USB-C cable in every box. Apple, meet Apple. Otherwise be like the old Sony with their incompatible "silos", and remember how well that turned out for them.

iPhone came out prior...and could you imagine the outcry if they only included a USB- C version cable at that point? I would not be surprised if the nest iPhone comes with only a USB-C cable...as well as the iPads. I actually hope they change the lightning port to USB-C

 

[dark_mark]

Manufactuers just need to include a USB C cable for their devices, if they include both a USB A and a USB C cable then it wouldn't be a problem. Also assuming it's not something where the cable is already wired in or if it's a flash drive.

But why would manufacturers include USB C cable for their devices when USB C only devices command less than 1% marketshare? Doesn't make any business sense to add extra cost, I sure as hell wouldn't, since it will lower my profit margin.

In other words, the USB C situation will be a major pain in the rear for most MacBook pro owners for 4-5 years.. Not so much for other laptop owners which support both USB A and USB C.

 

[ag29]

iPhone came out prior...and could you imagine the outcry if they only included a USB- C version cable at that point? I would not be surprised if the nest iPhone comes with only a USB-C cable...as well as the iPads. I actually hope they change the lightning port to USB-C

What about those lightning headphones? Those would have to go in the trash then..or you would need an adapter
[doublepost=1478369287][/doublepost]

But why would manufacturers include USB C cable for their devices when USB C only devices command less than 1% marketshare? Doesn't make any business sense to add extra cost, I sure as hell wouldn't, since it will lower my profit margin.

In other words, the USB C situation will be a major pain in the rear for most MacBook pro owners for 4-5 years.. Not so much for other laptop owners which support both USB A and USB C.

Very true, they won't do it until USB C becomes popular enough. Which means we have to buy our own USB C cables or just use their USB A cables with an adapter.

 

[fxbeta]

iPhone came out prior...and could you imagine the outcry if they only included a USB- C version cable at that point? I would not be surprised if the nest iPhone comes with only a USB-C cable...as well as the iPads. I actually hope they change the lightning port to USB-C

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I never suggested they ONLY include USB-C in the iPhone box. I think they should include both a USB-A and USB-C to lighting in the box.

 

[Capt T]

But why would manufacturers include USB C cable for their devices when USB C only devices command less than 1% marketshare? Doesn't make any business sense to add extra cost, I sure as hell wouldn't, since it will lower my profit margin.

In other words, the USB C situation will be a major pain in the rear for most MacBook pro owners for 4-5 years.. Not so much for other laptop owners which support both USB A and USB C.

It is $5 to replace a USB cable for a USB device. See the links I posted above. I already ordered a couple for my devices...no big deal at all. I can use the new computer with the old tech with no dongles...or spend $9 for a USB -C to UBB A dongleand be done with it.

Also posted a link to a bunch of flash drives that have both USB-C and USB A connectors on them...

It will not be a small portion of the market share in a year or so. USB-C is the new standard.

 

[wegster]

So - what do those using external keyboards or mice with a Logitech Unifying receiver use?
On anything with a USB-A port, insert and forget it's there (except when a laptop manufacturer only has 1 or 2 ports).
Now = ??

 

[Capt T]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I never suggested they ONLY include USB-C in the iPhone box. I think they should include both a USB-A and USB-C to lighting in the box.

Yeah I know...but we both know Apple won't do that....

 

[zhenya]

Just look at the iPhone, which comes with a USB-A cable in the box. If the company that makes the computer really wants USB-C to be more widely adopted, they should speak to the company that makes the phone and have them include a USB-C cable in every box. Apple, meet Apple. Otherwise be like the old Sony with their incompatible "silos", and remember how well that turned out for them.

Why should they sell the iPhone with a usb-c cable when the vast majority of owners won't have anything usb-c with which to connect it? The computers that Apple sells with usb-c only is a fraction of a percent of all devices iPhone users have. It would be enormously wasteful to include an adapter or extra cable with the iPhone when 99% of them would end up in the garbage. If you wanted them to include an adapter, it should be with their computers. As it is, the adapter costs $9. Leave it connected to your lightning cable and you will always have it with you. Hardly an issue.

 

[Capt T]

So - what do those using external keyboards or mice with a Logitech Unifying receiver use?
On anything with a USB-A port, insert and forget it's there (except when a laptop manufacturer only has 1 or 2 ports).
Now = ??

Are they not Bluetooth? Are they a proprietary wireless connection? Sorry I just have Bluetooth mice and external keyboards as they work with just about everything no dongle needed.

 

[protoxx]

USB 1.x, 2.x, 3.x (bet some geeks are now arguing and making deals and promises about 4.x as we speak) are protocol standards.
USB A, B, C are connector types
or more correctly
USB A, mini-A, micro-A, A-superspeed
USB B, mini-B, micro-B, B-superspeed, micro-B-superspeed
USB C