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So the question is, why buy the 2016 model and deal with inconvenience for most of it's life when you can buy a 2015 model and forget about stupid dongles? The CPU performance is actually a little worse on 2016 model, so it's a win win.

SOURCE: Me, research analyst by trade.

Why would you repeat this? The base model i5 non touch bar model has better CPU performance than the old outgoing 2015 13" MBP.

Regardless, you're analyzing the market the entirely wrong way.

Most people who buy PCs, buy low end models and don't have much a budget to buy accessories. Mac buyers on the other hand tend to have a lot more disposable income and will actually buy accessories. If you look at the percentage of the consumer market that actually buy 3rd party devices, its pretty high for Mac users.

Beyond that, Apple is creating a market for USBC/TBT3 devices for laptops. Before the new MBPs, why would any manufacture make a USBC device? There were few computers to take advantage of it. Now however, you have a relatively wealthy group of buyers who are going to be primarily wanting and buying USBC/TBT3 devices. The market will adapt quickly.
 
Yeah I know...but we both know Apple won't do that.... ;)

In what world would that ever make sense? $5 cable * 200,000,000 iPhones. Apple would have to spend $1,000,000,000 making these cables, and 95% of them would be thrown in the garbage anyways because most people don't have usbc devices. That's insane, and a huge waste for the environment.
 
But why would manufacturers include USB C cable for their devices when USB C only devices command less than 1% marketshare?
Well, we can look at the last big transition, PS/2 to USB. Logitech and other peripheral manufacturers included little converters for their mice and keyboards.

And don't forget that the peripheral business is a tough, crowded market. There are plenty of companies willing to step into really small niches. Look for example at the gamer niche, or the keyboard enthousiast niche. Besides that, there now is also the likes of Alibaba and DealExtreme, huge dropshippers that expose the cheap and small Chinese producers to the consumers.

On the other hand, there is a complicating factor. USB-C is not an easy standard, and it can send up to 100W power. I bet we'll going to read a number of Amazon reviews about smoking $2500 Macbooks.
 
What devices do you own that actually have USB-A built in the device?

I bet you that your printer isn't.
I bet you any external hard drive you have isn't.
Digital cameras aren't.

Definitely lose those three bets.
[doublepost=1478373006][/doublepost]Since, at least on the 13" touchbar, the right two usb-c ports are partial speed because of limitations. What if you had three usb-c ports, could they all be full speed? Could you then in place of the fourth usb-c put a usb-a or sd-card or micro-sd-card?
 
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Definitely lose those three bets.
[doublepost=1478373006][/doublepost]Since, at least on the 13" touchbar, the right two usb-c ports are partial speed because of limitations. What if you had three usb-c ports, could they all be full speed? Could you then in place of the fourth usb-c put a usb-a or sd-card or micro-sd-card?


It may have a cable with USB a on the end that plug into your computer, but on the actual device is it a USB A?
 
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It may have a cable with USB a on the end that plug into your computer, but on the actual device is it a USB A?
I think you are confused about the difference between usb protocols and usb connectors. If any device has a usb A connector is a usb A device. Not that doesn't say whether is is a usb 1.x, usb 2.x or usb 3.x protocol device.
 
What devices do you own that actually have USB-A built in the device?

17-182-313-04.jpg
 
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Mac marketshare is about 8%. not "Not even 1%". All it takes is a simple google search; there's never an excuse to pull numbers out of thin air and present them as fact.

Setting that aside, USB-C is a standard, moving forward. And in fact, it's already on (including exclusively on) a number of new laptops. Apple wasn't even the first this time.

Apple did the same thing with USB 1.1. They were the first to mass market with it; and when they did, they dropped EVERYTHING. Every single piece of hardware you owned before for a Mac, displays, mouse, keyboard, scanners, cameras, etc., would not work on the iMac. The iMac contained no legacy ports, and no Macs before it had USB. (At least not without a third party expansion card).

So, dongles. External floppy's because people still needed those (an 8MB USB thumb drive was $100, and you could buy a box of 10 floppies for a few bucks). And so on and so forth. The original G3 iMac didn't have a CD or DVD burner. Dropping the floppy was very premature for a lot of customers. In an age when networking was sparse even in offices, folks would pass floppies around with the files they needed to share. Now what, $100 8MB (that's an "M", as in, less than 6 floppies worth) USB thumb drives? CLEARLY networking, flash media, etc. was the future. But, even though it was the future, it wasn't there YET. Apple was premature then, according to critics. People had invested in Zip and later Jaz drives too for file sharing and storage; but those drives didn't work with the iMac or later G3 PowerMac.

Mac's aren't for pro's now because they dropped SD cards? Well what about when the G3 PowerMac came out. The iMac was easy enough to explain as a consumer machine; but when that G3 PowerMac came out, Apple was asking professional consumers to use a machine that wouldn't connect to their hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of external drives, Zip/Jaz drives, scanners (digital photography wasn't used as much in the pro realm then), printers, etc. So, yes... dongles, or new gear. So I'm not arguing whether or not Apple does or doesn't care about the pro market segment. But what I am saying, is this is something that's been going on for twenty years. If Apple stopped caring about pro's, it was when Steve Jobs returned to Apple and ditched highly expandable, super powerful machines with every port imaginable with candy-colored USB-only affordable (relatively speaking) machines meant to make it easy to sign up for dial up internet service. NOT when Steve Jobs passed away and Tim Cook took over.

Today? We say "Wow, Apple's foresight! The internet, home and office networking, flash media, that all usurped the floppy and traditional ports seemingly overnight!". And today, we say "How could Apple do this! Let's go back to when Apple didn't do things like this". When... exactly... was that?

The reality? It's seen as a good bet because USB took the world by storm very quickly. And it was much better. Instead of a port for a printer, a port for a modem, a port for a mouse, a port for a keyboard, a port for a game controller, and a port for a camera; all on different ports (and Mac's and PC's had DIFFERENT ports still); you had USB. Now, we've combined charging, displays, and high speed data into the same port.

That's going to be appealing to consumers, and it very well may take over very very quickly.

On the point of proprietary, Apple used to be the WORST at this.

Keyboard/Mouse? Proprietary "Apple Desktop Bus"
Display? Proprietary Apple Display Bus
Modem? Proprietary Apple Serial Bus
External Printer/Scanner/Hard Drive? SCSI. An industry standard, and superior to a PC parallel port, but it was used on almost no PC's. Similarly, PC's used IDE internal optical and hard disk drives while Apple used SCSI. Outside of server rooms and other high end environments; most PC's did not use SCSI drives. So again, not compatible. In the early days, they even used proprietary expansion slots. Though Apple did eventually yield to industry standard "PCI" slots.

And the list goes on. I used to have a Mac and a PC setup side by side and no piece of hardware attached to one could connect to the other. KVM switch to switch between them? No way, nothing was compatible, not even the stinking' monitors. I had an ADB Apple monitor, and a VGA monitor for the PC.

Apple should've included the SD reader and at least one USB-A port. However, USB-C itself is not the enemy. It's the right direction. It's an industry standard connector that'll be used across Windows, Linux, and macOS for many years moving forward.
 
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Unlike computers themselves, people generally don't replace peripherals until they break. Even if people did upgrade for port speed - they only upgrade stuff like hard disks and monitors - but mice, keyboards, printers etc - nbodoy cares aobut the speed of the connection.

In summary, the dongle business will do well for a while yet.

SOURCE: Me, not a research analyst by trade. Slightly drunk.
 
What devices do you own that actually have USB-A built in the device?

I bet you that your printer isn't.
I bet you any external hard drive you have isn't.
Digital cameras aren't.
Smartphones aren't.
Kindles/tablets aren't.

IMO, the majority of USB-A devices are wired mice/keyboards and thumb drives.

If you're a device manufacturer, you're likely to have never put a USB-A port on your product. You used micro USB or mini USB or USB-B on your products, and your customers used a USB cable with a USB-A plug on the end of the cable ... not on your device ... to plug it in their computer.

It's not just devices I have, but also devices that other people and organizations have.

For example, none of the lab equipments I use have USB-C.

Do you want me to write to my school, telling them to buy new equipment with USB-C ?
 
I think you are confused about the difference between usb protocols and usb connectors. If any device has a usb A connector is a usb A device. Not that doesn't say whether is is a usb 1.x, usb 2.x or usb 3.x protocol device.


I have this drive

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Passpo...383381&sr=8-3&keywords=wd+external+hard+drive

It came with a USB A cord

I bought this replacement cord

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14853

It now is a USB 3.0 drive with USB-C

No confusion on my part.


They have replacement cables that would work with printers and other devices as well...

It really is that simple
[doublepost=1478383591][/doublepost]
It's not just devices I have, but also devices that other people and organizations have.

For example, none of the lab equipments I use have USB-C.

Do you want me to write to my school, telling them to buy new equipment with USB-C ?


For that you will need an adapter. Just like I do if I am using someone else's equipment.
 
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I have this drive

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Passpo...383381&sr=8-3&keywords=wd+external+hard+drive

It came with a USB A cord

I bought this replacement cord

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14853

It now is a USB 3.0 drive with USB-C

No confusion on my part.


They have replacement cables that would work with printers and other devices as well...

It really is that simple
[doublepost=1478383591][/doublepost]


For that you will need an adapter. Just like I do if I am using someone else's equipment.

I suspect you still don't understand.

If you look at it and define it by the port on the device.......it is not usb-a or usb-c. It is a usb mini-b-superspeed drive.

You also have a usb mini-b-superspeed ti usc-c cable.

I have the same drive.
 
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I suspect you still don't understand.

If you look at it and define it by the port on the device.......it is not usb-a or usb-c. It is a usb mini-b-superspeed drive.

You also have a usb mini-b-superspeed ti usc-c cable.

I have the same drive.

Oh I do get it...

If you saw I asked earlier what connector plugged into your device....so I get it...what I would have done was given you a link to the replacement cable if you had answered, seems I did anyway

It really is as simple as getting a replacement cable if you don't want a dongle and your device's cable is not permanently attached
 
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What devices do you own that actually have USB-A built in the device?

I bet you that your printer isn't.
I bet you any external hard drive you have isn't.
Digital cameras aren't.
Smartphones aren't.
Kindles/tablets aren't.

IMO, the majority of USB-A devices are wired mice/keyboards and thumb drives.

If you're a device manufacturer, you're likely to have never put a USB-A port on your product. You used micro USB or mini USB or USB-B on your products, and your customers used a USB cable with a USB-A plug on the end of the cable ... not on your device ... to plug it in their computer.

I leave a USB wifi nic in my mbp 24x7 so I can associate it with a vm for testing the vm's interaction with the wireless network. It's very compact and doesn't cause any issues when I put it the mbp in my bag with it attached. I'm sure we will get there, but don't think we will see small USB-c wifi nic anytime soon
 
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Power. That's the big difference. USB-C can bus power desktop class drives, seagate does an 8TB model that is powered by the port as does LaCie Saves on more psu's in your bag. Just now you can replace the cables on existing kit as you can buy USB-c > USB A B etc for printers and drives etc. There are cheap USB sticks which have both C and A ports to make file transfers easier. And there are plenty of little 5$ converters for anything that you can't replace the cable on
 
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