I agree, im not saying steve knows whats best for everyone, especially the more technical users, but lets be honest... the guy knows how to make and market a product and their current sales figures show that... but i still want to know, how many of you that have blu ray players in your computers and especially laptops use them enough times to justify the added cost... im not saying one way or another as to whether apple should include them, i just want to know because i honestly dont know, who has one and actually USES it...
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Dear Apple, WHY NO BLU RAY in the new Macs!?!?! ARGH!
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I agree, im not saying steve knows whats best for everyone, especially the more technical users, but lets be honest... the guy knows how to make and market a product and their current sales figures show that... but i still want to know, how many of you that have blu ray players in your computers and especially laptops use them enough times to justify the added cost... im not saying one way or another as to whether apple should include them, i just want to know because i honestly dont know, who has one and actually USES it...
I'm on the same boat here as I agree there should have been an option for a BluRay "XTreme Drive" or whatever they'll call it. Although I would think the best time to introduce it is when they up the hardware in a year from now (like they usually do).
While I wouldn't want to watch my movies on a screen smaller than 30", if I'm sitting at my desk, it's more of a private affair as I don't have to fire up my PS3 and my 37" HDTV to watch a movie. But I prefer the shorter movies on my Mac.
Ripping BluRay movies to my computer isn't really an option for me now as I don't have near enough HD space on my Mac or my PS3 to store all the movies I would have. I currently have the whole Saw series, the whole Harry Potter series and a few other BD movies and each weighing in around 40GB a movie, that will take up a lot of space.
In the future I want to make a server to store all my media on, and by that time BD drives will be more commonplace, but that would be a Windows powered affair.
While I wouldn't want to watch my movies on a screen smaller than 30", if I'm sitting at my desk, it's more of a private affair as I don't have to fire up my PS3 and my 37" HDTV to watch a movie. But I prefer the shorter movies on my Mac.
Ripping BluRay movies to my computer isn't really an option for me now as I don't have near enough HD space on my Mac or my PS3 to store all the movies I would have. I currently have the whole Saw series, the whole Harry Potter series and a few other BD movies and each weighing in around 40GB a movie, that will take up a lot of space.
In the future I want to make a server to store all my media on, and by that time BD drives will be more commonplace, but that would be a Windows powered affair.
Adding a blu-ray option is not a significant enough change to warrant waiting for major revisions. This could easily be added in between major updates/redesigns. Whether Apple will ever do it -- who knows?
But I do understand that there is an important relationship between the size of your TV or display versus the range in which you sit from it, and I'm quite aware of the diminishing effect of 1080p in smaller sub 40" displays in the confines of a typical living room.
That said, I am a little puzzled as why you claim I don't understand this argument and that I haven't not done my "research". All I did was simply ask you to elaborate on how this relationship of viewing distance vs. screen size affects the viewer sitting in front of a 27" iMac. Anyway, I'll ask again: Is the experience of sitting in front of the 27" iMac not similar to sitting away from a 42"+ big screen TV?
Which is what I, the OP, and others here have been trying to essentially drive at: you are sitting CLOSER to a display that is SMALLER, which to me, would logically suggest that you retain that relationship and thus, one could appreciate 1080p effectively.
I cannot think of any more simpler or more narrow way to simplify the variables to make it as comprehensible as it already is.
Oh and I'm still waiting for that $40 blu-ray.
By narrowing the variables, I was referencing the fact that you keep saying "27"" You don't have a 27", you have a 13". The most popular sizes of Apple products are 13" and 15". You would need to be sitting a whole 2 feet away from your screen to get a glimpse of the benefit of 1080p. Oh wait, if the monitor even supports it.
I expressed my point of view in my last post. What is yours? Your 13" Macbook? I agree that there should be an option for people like you. Why not? Windows has the option. I just think that it is a waste of time.
I agree, I have a blu-ray on my PC, and the trouble to get blu-ray to play is pretty bad. First you need a HDCP monitor, than a HDCP video card, of course a blu-ray player, than you have to purchase a blu-ray software player. Are we done yet?
No, if you want to have HD audio you will need a HDMI soundcard that can output to a receiver to hear HD audio. Right now there are only 2 existing HDMI soundcard that can do this, the Asus Xonar HDAV 1.3 (and it's variations) and Auzentech's Xi-Fi Hometheater HD. Each require specific a specific software to play Blu-ray, Asus with ArcSofts Total Media Theater and Auzentechs with Cyberlinks PowerDVD.
Of course there are hacks that already has bypassed all of this "protected" content. Hollywood caused more harm with their DRM to real paying customers.
I can see why Apple wouldn't want to have Blu-ray as a movie player installed on their systems.
In other news, I think the 27-inch iMac looks great, I just have to save some money to pick one up next year!
Uhh, why are you even bringing in my 13" MBP into this discussion? Never in my posts did I ever imply any demand for blu-ray in Apple's notebook lineup (though I still believe it would be a welcomed BTO option as you can still output elsewhere).
To remind you again, the topic is about blu-ray in the iMac line, more importantly the 27" iMac. The fact that I own a 13" MBP and not a 27" iMac is also irrelevant and the fact you are digging into my signature for a very weak rebuttal tells me you have nothing against the 27" iMac at this point. We're here to talk about blu-ray on the iMac, and not on my Macbook Pro, please for the sake of this discussion.
If you're not going to give a legitimate reponse to why blu-ray on the 27" iMac would not be comparible to blu-ray on a large screen TV, given the respective distances, then stop beating around the bush as it is and at least save yourself from any further humility.
I get both sides of the discussion, but personally, the only time I am watching BD discs is on my DLP HDTV, which is much larger than a 21 or 27" screen, not to mention if they are dropping a BD drive in a mac, do it in a Mini, at least that makes sense for a HTC.
Those interested in ripping Bluray's for iPhones seems a bit overkill with the resolution, but if that's the format you own the movie, I get wanting to have em with you, and it would be nice for that. I simply don't get people that want it in the iMac's for the sole purpose of watching a movie there. The sound system sucks, even with externals, it's like going to a new night club and the music is a portable CD player from the 80's... pointless...
BD drives probably go against Apple's game plan to "rent" you HD (which is a joke in itself) from iTunes. The quality of those rentals on a 27" may look decent but basically just qualify above total crap on a 73" screen. Netflix saves the day in the rental game thankfully.
Anyhow Bluray will show up eventually when Apple feel's it's cheap and easy to install and that it won't take away from it's iTunes movie biz. Considering they look at a CPU speed bump and quad core bump some amazing new release, they have to hold off on the Bluray for next year! What else will they have? :O
Those interested in ripping Bluray's for iPhones seems a bit overkill with the resolution, but if that's the format you own the movie, I get wanting to have em with you, and it would be nice for that. I simply don't get people that want it in the iMac's for the sole purpose of watching a movie there. The sound system sucks, even with externals, it's like going to a new night club and the music is a portable CD player from the 80's... pointless...
BD drives probably go against Apple's game plan to "rent" you HD (which is a joke in itself) from iTunes. The quality of those rentals on a 27" may look decent but basically just qualify above total crap on a 73" screen. Netflix saves the day in the rental game thankfully.
Anyhow Bluray will show up eventually when Apple feel's it's cheap and easy to install and that it won't take away from it's iTunes movie biz. Considering they look at a CPU speed bump and quad core bump some amazing new release, they have to hold off on the Bluray for next year! What else will they have? :O
There's a minority share of the All-In-One computing user base that values space conservation. Years ago I lived in a dorm room and had a room mate; in that type of situation, consolidating devices into one is quite useful.
In other words, an iMac with a large screen and built-in Blu-Ray Disc capability would only require external speakers and perhaps an 'EyeTV' type product to handle triple duty as a t.v./movie player/computer.
This isn't your typical user situation, but it's a factor for some.
Also, the computer can BE your 'second t.v.' My Father has a Dell PC in his computer room, and while my Mother and Grandmother watch t.v. in the living room, if it's something he doesn't like, he can watch movies on his computer in the other room. No need to buy another t.v., another movie player, etc...
Richard.
In other words, an iMac with a large screen and built-in Blu-Ray Disc capability would only require external speakers and perhaps an 'EyeTV' type product to handle triple duty as a t.v./movie player/computer.
This isn't your typical user situation, but it's a factor for some.
Also, the computer can BE your 'second t.v.' My Father has a Dell PC in his computer room, and while my Mother and Grandmother watch t.v. in the living room, if it's something he doesn't like, he can watch movies on his computer in the other room. No need to buy another t.v., another movie player, etc...
Richard.
I'm not going to mention names, but I know there are some fanboys in here and I hope they continue to stick to their fanboy ways, because normal people wouldn't have entertainment.
Also not naming names, its quite obvious that they haven't done their research on blu ray, because they're too busy making a list of what organs to donate to Steve Jobs.
First lets talk about options. Options are great aren't they, they give you freedom to do stuff. Now I don't think blu-ray should be mandatory on Macs, but the option should be there. Would it be expensive? Probably yeah, but there are people willing to pay for it.
Now Apple only grew because it was able to deliver a stable computing experience. I won't argue that. With the terrible initial launch of Vista, Mac was able to capitalize and appeal to disgruntled users. Macs are more expensive, but they deliver an experience that can not be matched (well for now heheh beware google). The problem with Windows is its too broad based and it loses the ability to tie well with its hardware.
Now Mac is starting to go down a similar road. They ignore the HD film people who need blu-ray to put their films out. They ignore people who just want to watch the film on their computer. They could watch on a nice 50" hdtv, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY DON'T! Mac is starting to ignore a growing minority and is starting to look to the more common broad based user.
Now of course downloads are the future, so you think they're going to get that minority back when downloads become the future? Heh sorry to say, but physical media is going to be here for quite a while. It allows quicker access to data and larger amount of data to be accessed than any bandwidth provider in the USA and much of the world can handle. Not to mention terrible compression. To say "well its not as bad" is like saying "well this poo isn't that bad smelling as that." Its still ****, and you're just compensating.
Blu-ray prices $40? I got Transformers 2 on BD for $10 people ($13 - $3 papa johns coupon). Even a quick visit to amazon will get you good deals. What if I like to take my head outside so my organs will be oxygenated for delivery? Open up the Best Buy ad and you'll see quite a few blu-rays on sale this week. Oh and maybe I like special features, games, and trailers. You get more for your money. Oh and the sound no matter what can be downmixed. While I have no idea why you would want to do that, it does still sound good at 1.5 mb.
Oh did I mention, that Apple HD is terrible, and that you're kids will get cancer if you download from them? Heh okay I'm just kidding. I know there are some people getting pretty angry right now so calm down and take a breath. Just because you have an AppleCare plan just doesn't mean you should use it. Prevention first!
I used to think Macs were the best for everything, but now macs are terrible for HD editing and macs are terrible for full HD movie watching. Its the honest truth, and it looks like these people will have to just install Windows. That or wait for for internet infrastructure to catch up.
(I do use both OSes, I do have a blu ray player with the full system, and yes I have downloaded HD movies and everything. Done it all people. There are no assumptions here)
Also not naming names, its quite obvious that they haven't done their research on blu ray, because they're too busy making a list of what organs to donate to Steve Jobs.
First lets talk about options. Options are great aren't they, they give you freedom to do stuff. Now I don't think blu-ray should be mandatory on Macs, but the option should be there. Would it be expensive? Probably yeah, but there are people willing to pay for it.
Now Apple only grew because it was able to deliver a stable computing experience. I won't argue that. With the terrible initial launch of Vista, Mac was able to capitalize and appeal to disgruntled users. Macs are more expensive, but they deliver an experience that can not be matched (well for now heheh beware google). The problem with Windows is its too broad based and it loses the ability to tie well with its hardware.
Now Mac is starting to go down a similar road. They ignore the HD film people who need blu-ray to put their films out. They ignore people who just want to watch the film on their computer. They could watch on a nice 50" hdtv, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY DON'T! Mac is starting to ignore a growing minority and is starting to look to the more common broad based user.
Now of course downloads are the future, so you think they're going to get that minority back when downloads become the future? Heh sorry to say, but physical media is going to be here for quite a while. It allows quicker access to data and larger amount of data to be accessed than any bandwidth provider in the USA and much of the world can handle. Not to mention terrible compression. To say "well its not as bad" is like saying "well this poo isn't that bad smelling as that." Its still ****, and you're just compensating.
Blu-ray prices $40? I got Transformers 2 on BD for $10 people ($13 - $3 papa johns coupon). Even a quick visit to amazon will get you good deals. What if I like to take my head outside so my organs will be oxygenated for delivery? Open up the Best Buy ad and you'll see quite a few blu-rays on sale this week. Oh and maybe I like special features, games, and trailers. You get more for your money. Oh and the sound no matter what can be downmixed. While I have no idea why you would want to do that, it does still sound good at 1.5 mb.
Oh did I mention, that Apple HD is terrible, and that you're kids will get cancer if you download from them? Heh okay I'm just kidding. I know there are some people getting pretty angry right now so calm down and take a breath. Just because you have an AppleCare plan just doesn't mean you should use it. Prevention first!
I used to think Macs were the best for everything, but now macs are terrible for HD editing and macs are terrible for full HD movie watching. Its the honest truth, and it looks like these people will have to just install Windows. That or wait for for internet infrastructure to catch up.
(I do use both OSes, I do have a blu ray player with the full system, and yes I have downloaded HD movies and everything. Done it all people. There are no assumptions here)
I just bought Transformers 2 on Blu Ray at Walmart an hour ago for $19.99 and that was for the 2 disc special edition! DVD was 14.99. I don't know what he was talking about $40.
I think the AppleTV service offers downloadable movies at 1080p. I'm pretty sure that is the sole reason for the new iMacs having monitors at that resolution ratio (2560x1440 is also the same ratio as the 1920x1080).
Blu-Ray is competition for AppleTV, why would Steve Jobs put Blu-Ray on Macs - it would cost him more more per Mac to manufacture and drive down AppleTV subscriptions?
It took Apple longer than anyone else to adopt the SD Card Slot, why is anyone holding their breath for BD? You'll have to beat it out of Apple before they give it to you
Downloadable is more convenient, but people like paying for something they have tangible ownership of not just something that is purely digital. There is no 'Right of First Sale' with downloaded or streaming movies either! You can't sell a digital movie when you are tired of it, you can do that with a physical disc though.
When compressed to MPEG4 or better, a 3hr 40GB Blu-Ray movie can be squeezed to about 13GB and still maintain very high quality HD. Streaming that in real-time would take about 4hrs at 1MB/s, so it is possible to get Blu-Ray quality movies from a download buy or subscription service. That isn't the point though. The point is about human rights, about dignity, and about wanting to get what you paid for when you blow $2k or more on a computer on the verge of 2010.
And don't forget each disc can store a huge amount of information. Blu-Ray is a format which at the foundation of its specification can support an infinite amount of layers. They have a 4-layer Blu-Ray disc that can support 100GB now http://images.blu-ray.com/media/tdk.jpg that is very useful. In comparison I laugh at burning an 8GB dual-layer dvd.
Apple/Steve Jobs ignores a large amount of users and possible converts. Apple/Steve Jobs ignores alot of people. Apple/Steve Jobs hates competition. But these things have *always* been true. In the 1990s when Steve Jobs allowed 3rd party hardware manufacturers to sell their computer hardware with MacOS, he shut them down the moment they dropped their prices so low that they were competing with Apple's own prices. If you think Apple/Steve Jobs is anything but power hungry and cynical, you are fooling yourself. Apple as a company isn't any better morally or ethically than Microsoft, once you realize that and admit it to yourself than none of this should be a surprise. Search http://www.eff.org/ for 'Apple' and 'iPhone' just to get a taste of truth here. I've been in love with Mac's since I first learned of Apple's existence, but you have to know a company inside and out to really appreciate them.
Blu-Ray is competition for AppleTV, why would Steve Jobs put Blu-Ray on Macs - it would cost him more more per Mac to manufacture and drive down AppleTV subscriptions?
It took Apple longer than anyone else to adopt the SD Card Slot, why is anyone holding their breath for BD? You'll have to beat it out of Apple before they give it to you
Downloadable is more convenient, but people like paying for something they have tangible ownership of not just something that is purely digital. There is no 'Right of First Sale' with downloaded or streaming movies either! You can't sell a digital movie when you are tired of it, you can do that with a physical disc though.
When compressed to MPEG4 or better, a 3hr 40GB Blu-Ray movie can be squeezed to about 13GB and still maintain very high quality HD. Streaming that in real-time would take about 4hrs at 1MB/s, so it is possible to get Blu-Ray quality movies from a download buy or subscription service. That isn't the point though. The point is about human rights, about dignity, and about wanting to get what you paid for when you blow $2k or more on a computer on the verge of 2010.
And don't forget each disc can store a huge amount of information. Blu-Ray is a format which at the foundation of its specification can support an infinite amount of layers. They have a 4-layer Blu-Ray disc that can support 100GB now http://images.blu-ray.com/media/tdk.jpg that is very useful. In comparison I laugh at burning an 8GB dual-layer dvd.
Apple/Steve Jobs ignores a large amount of users and possible converts. Apple/Steve Jobs ignores alot of people. Apple/Steve Jobs hates competition. But these things have *always* been true. In the 1990s when Steve Jobs allowed 3rd party hardware manufacturers to sell their computer hardware with MacOS, he shut them down the moment they dropped their prices so low that they were competing with Apple's own prices. If you think Apple/Steve Jobs is anything but power hungry and cynical, you are fooling yourself. Apple as a company isn't any better morally or ethically than Microsoft, once you realize that and admit it to yourself than none of this should be a surprise. Search http://www.eff.org/ for 'Apple' and 'iPhone' just to get a taste of truth here. I've been in love with Mac's since I first learned of Apple's existence, but you have to know a company inside and out to really appreciate them.
Ummm, yeah. Whatever dude...
One of the reason mac users complain so much about something like Blu-Ray is because they can't have it. They know it was asked for and Apple denied them the right to play or burn Blu-Ray, if for nothing other than the almighty dollar (to keep cost ratio down and fuel AppleTV). Come on, common psychology. When a person is affected by something they have no control over (and/or they used what little control they had and it didn't help at all) they feel powerless, they get mad. When a person waves thousands of dollars and asks for something and is ignored and laughed at, they get mad.
My opinion anyway. Right, I do sound crazy. Go ahead and laugh. HaHa!
CDs are competition for the iTunes store, yet most Macs have a CD drive. Same with DVD movies and TV shows vs. the iTunes store.
If you think Blu-ray devices and Apple TV are in "competition," you haven't seen a lot of new tech products. The PS3 does about everything except sync with iTunes. The Xbox 360 lets you stream Netflix as well as acts as a gaming system. My Samsung BD player plays all optical discs (CD, DVD, BD) and streams Blockbuster (big whoops, I know), Netflix, Pandora and YouTube. Apple TV doesn't hold a candle to any of that.
The ATV needs a massive rethinking. I would start out by including an optical drive (option of BD or DVD). Then create an OS that works a lot like the iPhone and could run third-party applications. Then ditch that utterly stupid remote and make something worthwhile (think of a mash-up between an iPhone, remote and Magic Mouse). I'd buy that.
You do know that the CD drive does more than playing CD's right? More like installing software maybe and playing games on DVD??
Michael, I mean that Steve Jobs is marketing the AppleTV service for Macs. Right now, if you want to watch a high-def movie on your Mac, the easiest ways are either iTunes or go buy an AppleTV and wirelessly sync between the AppleTV and your Mac. NetFlix just started a new service where HD digital movies can be downloaded directly to a computer, but I hear the selection is limited and the software may not be compatible with Snow Leopard. Last resort is to also have a PC with a Blu-Ray player and rip the Blu-Ray to a format like MPEG4 then copy to your Mac. Sounds painful though. And all those choices would be dwarfed by simply going to the store and buying a Blu-Ray disc, if Macs supported Blu-Ray anyway, then that would be one less reason for people to buy an AppleTV, less money for Apple.
And yes in 5 to 10 years when the internet speed of a typical household is several orders of magnitude faster than currently, and the slowest cpu you've ever heard of is quad-core, yeah maybe then Blu-Ray will be made obsolete by the digital equivalent as it happened for CDs. That point has just about come for DVDs. But even then a Blu-Ray drive will still be good for burning untold amounts of data, even long after you've stopped buying physical copies of movie.
Michael I agree PS3 wins hands-down when competing over movie watching on a family HDTV, that wasn't really what I was talking about though.
Ummm, yeah. Whatever dude...
hahahaha. Plus, he didn't pay for a blu-ray drive.
The only pathetic thing, is you (and any other 'apologetic mac fanboys') failing to at least acknowledge, that IF the end user was given a choice of being able to play full high definition movies on their Mac (that's right, via the industry standard that's blu ray) they would almost certainly say YES PLEASE!
I have to admit, that the last time I actually bought a Blu-Ray movie was a while ago. A few months before HD DVD died is when I bought my player. While suggested retail price is still around $39.99, I also bought Transformers 2 yesterday for $19.99. Prices are cheap out there. I plan on buying a lot more movies now.
Even if Apple added Blu-ray support to OS X, it wouldn't change how I do HD video. The disc would still get ripped and added to my video library of Blu-ray movies. I like having video on demand on any computer in my house.
I was trying to drag your mind out of that hole. Apple thinks on a wide scale about these things. Their most popular line is in the 13" and 15" range. Yes, if they only focused on what you and a few others cared about (few in relation to millions of laptop users), then they would probably be looking at blu-ray. I didn't focus on that aspect for the benefit of my point. I was doing it to get you out of that box.
On another note, people use the whole fanboy thing when they don't have much else to say. Fanboy is giving props to the company no matter what they do. I haven't rode apples nuts on this one. I have simply implied that people need to stop faking the funk on the whole Blu-ray thing. if you want blu-ray so bad, get it. There are many options out there.
I don't know if its been mentioned. But you can rip blu-rays in osx and watch them back using VLC/Plex or xmbc. : MakeMKV
But I am a fanboy and the average computer consumer shouldn't have to do this!!!!!!!! EG Mum, little brothers!!!!
Job's is a joke! Whats with the last min turnaround on blu-ray. Just give us a new BDDVD app at least!
But I am a fanboy and the average computer consumer shouldn't have to do this!!!!!!!! EG Mum, little brothers!!!!
Job's is a joke! Whats with the last min turnaround on blu-ray. Just give us a new BDDVD app at least!
I believe you are missing the point. Every PC OEM has a Blu-ray option, even on $800 laptops. It's an OPTION, which means the buyer can choose to have one installed on his/her desktop or laptop.
There is NO legitimate reason Blu-ray is not supported on the iMac, Mini and MacPro lines. The lack of a 9.5mm slot loading Blu-ray drive means no Apple Blu-ray on laptops as long as Apple laptops are so thin and 9.5mm drives don't exist (or are prohibitively expensive).
However, Apple should not use this as an excuse to withhold Blu-ray support from their desktop products.
Cheers,