'Death Hug': Verizon iPhone Demonstrates Antenna Attenuation Issues

[mrochester]

I don't know but what does it matter? The point is that all phones lose some signal strength to one degree or another.

And this so-called problem didn't affect all iPhone 4 owners the same and appears to be worse in areas with weaker signal coverage (something AT&T is known for to begin with.) I know people who own iPhone 4s who have never noticed the problem, and I work with someone who cannot reproduce the problem on his.

I'd say the issue comes from a combination of things and the efforts to push it as a problem unique to the iPhone was misguided at best.

Well it does matter because the whole point of this discussion is to demonstrate that the iPhone 4 has a single major point of weakness that no other phone has. If the 3G or Droid Eris don't have a single spot like that then they don't have the same problem.

Unless you can name any other phone that can lose so much signal from a single spot, then the problem is most definitely not misguided; it still lands squarely on the iPhone 4.

 

[viewfly]

The difference you haven't mentioned it that by touching the areas mentioned in these manuals you simply degrade the signal. With the iPhone 4, you can lose the signal completely by touching the spot on the left hand side. There's a very big difference between simply losing some bars and loosing all bars and having no connectivity at all. This is how it's a flaw in the iPhone 4 design as no one spot on a phone should be able to make you lose all connectivity completely. It should require a complete covering of an antenna to be able to get anywhere near to loosing all signal, yet the iPhone 4 will lose all single with just a fingertip on that spot. That's a major design and functionality failing.

Maybe you should watch this YouTube to understand why some see AntennaGate and others do not. Single finger on gap. dB loss or data stoppage does not happen in all cases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf5-sMP2ed0

This video Shows lack of antena-gate, when iPhone 4 has good 5 bars or -54dBm and -68 dBm ( 2 examples). No loss in signal (dB) or data speed stoppage. Also shows result with Bumper on. 5 bars begins around -78dBm and goes up to -40dBm (approximately). I found that weaker signals than -72dBm ( i.e. 4 bars) will show antenna-gate in loss of dB ( 22dB) and stoppage of data speeds.

This explains why some see antennagate and others do not.

 

[mrochester]

Maybe you should watch this YouTube to understand why some see AntennaGate and others do not. Single finger on gap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf5-sMP2ed0

This video Shows lack of antena-gate, when iPhone 4 has good 5 bars or -54dBm and -68 dBm ( 2 examples). No loss in signal (dB) or data speed stoppage. Also shows result with Bumper on. 5 bars begins around -78dBm and goes up to -40dBm (approximately). I found that weaker signals than -72dBm ( i.e. 4 bars) will show antenna-gate in loss of dB ( 22dB) and stoppage of data speeds.

This explains why some see antennagate and others do not.

Oh I know why it happens to some people and not others. The issue is the people who repeatedly state that it doesn't exist and that it's no worse than any other phone, which we know to not be true. Just testing it myself at home I can see that 'antennagate' is very much a reality! If it wasn't, why can I see it? Hopefully Apple will have bothered themselves to have fixed this come the iPhone 5.

 

[viewfly]

Oh I know why it happens to some people and not others. The issue is the people who repeatedly state that it doesn't exist and that it's no worse than any other phone, which we know to not be true. Just testing it myself at home I can see that 'antennagate' is very much a reality! If it wasn't, why can I see it? Hopefully Apple will have bothered themselves to have fixed this come the iPhone 5.

I'm reading your post to say it happens in all cases...which is does not...a single fiber on the gap will NOT reduce the data speeds or dB at all...if you are in a good signal area.

you need to realize that the 'bar' scales represents the very bottom end of the reception scale. All these videos showing loss of signal have 4 bars or less...which is a very poor signal. The problem is that above the 5th bar there should be another 10 bars or so to show the full range of typical reception.

I'm not saying there is no sweet spot flaw...just explaining why for some people, they can hold the phone any which way they wish...and not a problem. All the silly videos with death grip are really just touching the one little 1 mm wide spot.

 

[inkswamp]

Well it does matter because the whole point of this discussion is to demonstrate that the iPhone 4 has a single major point of weakness that no other phone has. If the 3G or Droid Eris don't have a single spot like that then they don't have the same problem.

Unless you can name any other phone that can lose so much signal from a single spot, then the problem is most definitely not misguided; it still lands squarely on the iPhone 4.

It is the same problem. There has never been a single smart phone on the market as popular and fast-selling as the iPhone 4 however so its particular manifestation of this signal phenomenon gets put under the microscope in a way that isn't done to any other phone. That's the real difference.

And no, I can't name another phone that has a single spot that, by touching, reduces signal but I do know that during the hysteria over this last summer, there were plenty of videos and websites out there showing other phones with lowered signal strength due to "death grips." And I do recall that a couple phones did have single locations that would yield similar results. I can't tell you what those were now because I was convinced it was a non-story and didn't much care about it at the time and therefore didn't take notes.

 

[mKTank]

It is the same problem. There has never been a single smart phone on the market as popular and fast-selling as the iPhone 4 however so its particular manifestation of this signal phenomenon gets put under the microscope in a way that isn't done to any other phone. That's the real difference.

And no, I can't name another phone that has a single spot that, by touching, reduces signal but I do know that during the hysteria over this last summer, there were plenty of videos and websites out there showing other phones with lowered signal strength due to "death grips." And I do recall that a couple phones did have single locations that would yield similar results. I can't tell you what those were now because I was convinced it was a non-story and didn't much care about it at the time and therefore didn't take notes.

Death grip isn't the same as the touch of a finger, bub.

 

[SeaFox]

Really?

This is such a non-issue; no one holds their phone like this...

...except people trying to watch streaming internet porn on the bus.

 

[viewfly]

It is

And no, I can't name another phone that has a single spot that, by touching, reduces signal but I do know that during the hysteria over this last summer, there were plenty of videos and websites out there showing other phones with lowered signal strength due to "death grips." And I do recall that a couple phones did have single locations that would yield similar results. I can't tell you what those were now because I was convinced it was a non-story and didn't much care about it at the time and therefore didn't take notes.

Probably those phones of yesteryear that had stubby antennas and if you rested your finger on the stub, the signal would go down quite a bit. Or the retractable antenna types, when left retracted...and once again you placed your finger on the antenna it would cause the same problem.

I also don't place my hand on top of the stove burners.

 

[inkswamp]

Death grip isn't the same as the touch of a finger, bub.

There were other phones demonstrated to have "weak spots" as well back when this was getting so much attention last summer.

It's a NON-STORY.

 

[inkswamp]

Probably those phones of yesteryear that had stubby antennas and if you rested your finger on the stub, the signal would go down quite a bit. Or the retractable antenna types, when left retracted...and once again you placed your finger on the antenna it would cause the same problem.

I also don't place my hand on top of the stove burners.

No, they were mostly of the more up-to-date variety sporting similar form factors to the iPhone. I know what I'm talking about. I've heard this argument before that it's different because the iPhone has a weak spot, but there are other phones out there with the same. It's not unique to the iPhone.

Good thinking with the stove burner, btw. Just wish you could apply that kind of common sense and logic to this whole non-story because then you'd see that it was mostly driven by a tech press eager to prove Apple isn't infallible.

 

[viewfly]

No, they were mostly of the more up-to-date variety sporting similar form factors to the iPhone. I know what I'm talking about. I've heard this argument before that it's different because the iPhone has a weak spot, but there are other phones out there with the same. It's not unique to the iPhone.

Good thinking with the stove burner, btw. Just wish you could apply that kind of common sense and logic to this whole non-story because then you'd see that it was mostly driven by a tech press eager to prove Apple isn't infallible.

I'm not really sure if you are agreeing with me or not?

Stubby antennas were around for decades...and they had similar issues.

Stove top. I go bare with my iPhone 4 and I know not to touch that 1 mm black band, if I'm at 4 bars or a signal worse than -78 dBm or so. It is not hard to remember.

On the Verizon iphone, the iLounge tests are lame. Clearly the 'hot spot' has been moved to a less likely to be touched area. And also some other improvments too, internally. But iLounge makes a point of touching it with their new death grip, without really talking about it.

FAil.

 

[inkswamp]

I'm not really sure if you are agreeing with me or not?

Stubby antennas were around for decades...and they had similar issues.

Fair enough. I don't really feel like I'm trying to argue with you so much as point out a nuance about how I see this compared to how you (presumably) see this. My point is that all phones experience signal degradation based on how they're held--whether it's due to touching the antenna in a certain way or place or whatever. The point is that it happens to all phones.

It seems pointless to me to split hairs over it. So let's say for the sake of argument (and because I'm too lazy to Google it) that there really were no other phones with the "death spot". My reaction is big deal. Focusing on that one difference, that you have to touch one spot versus gripping the antenna a certain way is meaningless, misses the forest for the trees. The big picture view of the problem, regardless of how it manifests itself in any given phone, is all the same: physical contact reduces signal.

So like I said, it's a non-story. It's meaningless to point out that one phone does it with a particular spot and another does it with a grip. Same difference, same result.

 

[manyax111]

If the case solves the problem then why can't apple just make sone kind of build-in case or cover the metal antenna parts with plastic..

Hope they will on next iphone.

 

[SAD*FACED*CLOWN]

So I suppose this takes the death star off the hook?

 

[viewfly]

Fair enough. I don't really feel like I'm trying to argue with you so much as point out a nuance about how I see this compared to how you (presumably) see this. My point is that all phones experience signal degradation based on how they're held--whether it's due to touching the antenna in a certain way or place or whatever. The point is that it happens to all phones.

It seems pointless to me to split hairs over it. So let's say for the sake of argument (and because I'm too lazy to Google it) that there really were no other phones with the "death spot". My reaction is big deal. Focusing on that one difference, that you have to touch one spot versus gripping the antenna a certain way is meaningless, misses the forest for the trees. The big picture view of the problem, regardless of how it manifests itself in any given phone, is all the same: physical contact reduces signal.

So like I said, it's a non-story. It's meaningless to point out that one phone does it with a particular spot and another does it with a grip. Same difference, same result.

Yeah, I guess you are misreading my post, or it is too early in the morning and I'm not composing it well.

I was agreeing with everything you said and have always pointed out the same arguments as you have. Re my youtube posting above, and one on Macrumors from last summer on holding my 6230 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_RP7Fn1w8Q)

so we are on the same page.

 

[robert05au]

Come on! Who holds their phone like that in the first place? Sure if you let your hand have sex with your phone by totally molesting it, you will have signal issues. I have been using an iPhone 4 since the day it came out, and I have never encountered anttenaegate...

Exactly putting that much pressure on any phone could not be good for it in any way shape or form.

Wonders what would happen if the glass panels where to suddenly break in the hand of the person holding it.

 

[SockRolid]

Death hug?

There's a bumper for that.

 

[inkswamp]

Yeah, I guess you are misreading my post, or it is too early in the morning and I'm not composing it well.

I was agreeing with everything you said and have always pointed out the same arguments as you have. Re my youtube posting above, and one on Macrumors from last summer on holding my 6230 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_RP7Fn1w8Q)

so we are on the same page.

Ah, scrolling up, it looks like I was conflating your posts with those of mrochester. Most of what I've posted was meant for that person. That's what I get for peeking in intermittently on MR while trying to work on something else... and being up too late. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

 

[Nein01]

just wanted to point out..

so the verizon iphone has the same signal issues, yet THIS is the commercial they put out.

are people just simply not allowed to hear the truth anymore?

 

[womble2k2]

Lets just go back to phones with 6 inch extendable aerials!

Seriously, although I did get one of the free bumbers, I actually don't use it and don't suffer from any problems because I hold the phone like I would any other handset, i.e. I don't bridge any gaps or surround the phone with my signal absorbing hands.

Common sense required here. Why would you need to hold the phone with the 'death hug'?

From the iLounge website;

The problem with Wi-Fi reception appears when the device is held snugly in landscape orientation with two hands, a position common when playing games or using the widescreen keyboard.

Um, I play a lot of landscape games that require Wi-Fi or 3G connectivity and I never hold it like that. And how do you type if all of your hands are surrounding the phone? I hold the phone with my left hand and type with my right.

Oh dear. Anything to boast readership I think.

 

[aldo82]

If the case solves the problem then why can't apple just make sone kind of build-in case or cover the metal antenna parts with plastic..

Hope they will on next iphone.

Because it would be total fail if they did. I can't imagine anything worse than if apple started wrapping it in cheapo plastic. I don't use a case, I have made the choice to not touch the tiny little black bar on the phone when I am using it and I find reception is better than the 3g and 3gs. I am often in a low signal area and can replicate the antenna problem, I just choose not to

 

[iPhoneCollector]

Only a monkey would hold their phone like that

 

[Hawkeye411]

Terrible!!

Why wouldn't they fix the problem? What is wrong with Apple? The quality is going downhill!!

 

[spazzcat]

Well it does matter because the whole point of this discussion is to demonstrate that the iPhone 4 has a single major point of weakness that no other phone has. If the 3G or Droid Eris don't have a single spot like that then they don't have the same problem.

Unless you can name any other phone that can lose so much signal from a single spot, then the problem is most definitely not misguided; it still lands squarely on the iPhone 4.

On the VZW iPhone 4 he is not touching a spot on the phone, he is squeezing it as hard as he can and every cell phone will lose signal if you do this...

 

[gctwnl]

World vs US GSM?

I recall having read that the iPhone is set up according to official standards with respect to average tower distances (which are supposed to be larger in the US than is in the official world standard for GSM). It is supposed to put out a weaker GSM signal than it should for US circumstances (and this obviously saves battery life but would imply worse performance for connections). Can anybody confirm/deny this?