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Decided to try again (iPad #7) - Week 14 build.
- Thread starter Nikos
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Now how to deal with the cognitive dissonance, now that said user has become an iSheeple themselves?eek
I would like to address you two, because you've provided very reasoned and calm arguments about the new iPad, unlike so many others here. You make some valid points.
But I have to say, it's seems to me that you don't have much invested in Apple, and may be a bit shortsighted.
Apple's products and services pervade nearly every aspect of my life. I work on a Mac all day long. I count on my Mac for a paycheck. I rely on an iPhone to stay in touch with friends and family. I relax with an iPad. I am entertained by an Apple TV and iPods. I trust Apple to deliver my email, and to store my photos, my documents and my music collection.
The collection of Apple goods and services I've amassed have changed my life fairly drastically. And they are all interdependent. I have considerable time and effort, not to mention money, invested in the Apple ecosystem.
Sure, there have been bumps along the way. I'm not thrilled with some of the automations and simplifications in Lion. But there are workarounds. I had some quality control issues with a couple of iPhones over the years, but they were rectified with an exchange or two.
Every Mac Tower, Powerbook, MacBook, monitor, Mac Mini, iPod, and iPad I've owned has been basically flawless.
But now, Steve Jobs, the maniacal perfectionist visionary, is gone. A man who can move boatloads of materials and ramp up an already soul crushing production rate has taken the helm.
For the first time in in Apple's recent history, a new product is launched in such massive quantities that there are no lines. (and it's no coincidence that this move generated less buzz too).
And for the first time in Apple's recent history, I (and a growing number of others) don't get a problem-free example of the newest product in 1 or 2 tries. Or 3. Or 4. Or 5. I try exchanging. I try returning and buying from a different retailer. Finally, by the 6th try, I get one that will suffice. It still has the same issues (screen coloration) as my previous examples, but less so.
For the first time in Apple's recent history, my reaction to a new product is not "Wow!". Not "OMG!". But "OK I guess".
This is upsetting to me, not only because I can plainly see the correlation between the large number of iPads produced and the large number of iPads I have to reject to get one that leaves me somewhat underwhelmed, but also because of the uncanny timing with regards to the passing of Steve Jobs. This was Tim Cook's first solo flight and it's been a bit of a disappointment from my perspective. I see it as a paradigm shift and a potential foreshadowing of the future of Apple products and my relationship with them...a relationship I have much invested in, financially, time wise, and emotionally.
It's also disheartening to express concern over these issues, only to be called OCD and crazy, in a place named after the company, ostensibly created to nurture a love and healthy discourse for the company and its products.
Apple's products and services have been a constant source of joy for me and have provided a calming sense of order in a chaotic world. They are woven into my life and those around me. I don't take their downfall lightly.
Some will say I'm just being dramatic. I never once thought Apple would suffer without Steve Jobs, until the first post-Steve launch. Now I'm a little worried.
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Hi Mcdj (not quoting your post to save space)
Like yourself I actually do have a huge amount invested in Apple. Working in video post production we are Apple based (apart from dedicated platforms such as Flame) which I use all day. Personally I have a current generation iMac (see signature), 64GB iPod Touch, Apple TV, iPhone and iPad along with an old Mac Book (apologies, this isn't meant to sound like "mine's bigger than yours type thing, just providing some context). I have also been an Apple user for the last 20 years or so.
I personally don't buy into the "Now Steve's gone it's all going to *****" argument - I, or the various companies I have worked for over the years, have had a wide and varied assortment of issues with Apple products. For example the last two iMacs I have had (2009 model and now 2011 model) have both had the yellow screen and both had the screen blotches / smokey effect. Personally I think sometimes the balance between design and engineering has recently been a little to biased towards the design side of things. I am no Apple fan boy, fan boys actually do the brand a dis-service, I recognise that Apple do screw up (and over the years there have been quite a few) however the balance of screw ups to their record in innovation and a stable OS keeps them in credit. The one thing Apple do excel in is after-sales customer service, although getting them to publicly acknowledge an issue is a non starter.
I personally think that Apple's Achilles heel is that peoples expectations of their products are extremely high - partly understandable due to the premium price point they charge on everything. I'm not sure other companies products are so overtly scrutinised by their customers as an Apple product. Nowadays when a new Apple product is announced it makes TV and newspaper headlines (which I frankly think is ridiculous) and is launched by Apple themselves as a metaphorical "Holy Grail" of technological innovation.
I don't doubt that there are duff iPad3 units out there - it's inevitable. The unfortunate thing, as a customer, once you receive one duff unit you often end up in a cycle of seeking the perfect replacement as your eye becomes heightened / fixated on every perceived defect, I speak from experience with my iMac.
Ultimately I don't think the iPad's display was ever designed to be a colour calibrated, grade 1 monitor, if you put up a pure white screen you will likely see inconsistencies in the hue/tone between devices but that's not real world usage of an iPad. Sure, some units will be unacceptable but I think you have been sensible and settled on unit 6 - at the moment you say it's not perfect but a month down the line that will likely be a distant memory. You will have been using the iPad as it was intended and likely be thankful that you opted to drop out of the multiple return cycle (and all the perceived stress that entails). Further, you have at least twelve months to decide "actually I don't like this screen" and Apple will be more than happy to swap it out (albeit likely a refurb) - who knows, by then Sharp will be producing screens and the consensus maybe that their screens are better / more consistent.
Apple, the times they are a changing as a company - they're moving more towards a mass market consumer electronics company / media distrubtion and further away from their roots but this inevitable transition has been a long time coming and was instigated whilst Steve Jobs was at the helm. At the end of the day Jobs had his strengths but lets face it, he was never a one man band.
Like yourself I actually do have a huge amount invested in Apple. Working in video post production we are Apple based (apart from dedicated platforms such as Flame) which I use all day. Personally I have a current generation iMac (see signature), 64GB iPod Touch, Apple TV, iPhone and iPad along with an old Mac Book (apologies, this isn't meant to sound like "mine's bigger than yours type thing, just providing some context). I have also been an Apple user for the last 20 years or so.
I personally don't buy into the "Now Steve's gone it's all going to *****" argument - I, or the various companies I have worked for over the years, have had a wide and varied assortment of issues with Apple products. For example the last two iMacs I have had (2009 model and now 2011 model) have both had the yellow screen and both had the screen blotches / smokey effect. Personally I think sometimes the balance between design and engineering has recently been a little to biased towards the design side of things. I am no Apple fan boy, fan boys actually do the brand a dis-service, I recognise that Apple do screw up (and over the years there have been quite a few) however the balance of screw ups to their record in innovation and a stable OS keeps them in credit. The one thing Apple do excel in is after-sales customer service, although getting them to publicly acknowledge an issue is a non starter.
I personally think that Apple's Achilles heel is that peoples expectations of their products are extremely high - partly understandable due to the premium price point they charge on everything. I'm not sure other companies products are so overtly scrutinised by their customers as an Apple product. Nowadays when a new Apple product is announced it makes TV and newspaper headlines (which I frankly think is ridiculous) and is launched by Apple themselves as a metaphorical "Holy Grail" of technological innovation.
I don't doubt that there are duff iPad3 units out there - it's inevitable. The unfortunate thing, as a customer, once you receive one duff unit you often end up in a cycle of seeking the perfect replacement as your eye becomes heightened / fixated on every perceived defect, I speak from experience with my iMac.
Ultimately I don't think the iPad's display was ever designed to be a colour calibrated, grade 1 monitor, if you put up a pure white screen you will likely see inconsistencies in the hue/tone between devices but that's not real world usage of an iPad. Sure, some units will be unacceptable but I think you have been sensible and settled on unit 6 - at the moment you say it's not perfect but a month down the line that will likely be a distant memory. You will have been using the iPad as it was intended and likely be thankful that you opted to drop out of the multiple return cycle (and all the perceived stress that entails). Further, you have at least twelve months to decide "actually I don't like this screen" and Apple will be more than happy to swap it out (albeit likely a refurb) - who knows, by then Sharp will be producing screens and the consensus maybe that their screens are better / more consistent.
Apple, the times they are a changing as a company - they're moving more towards a mass market consumer electronics company / media distrubtion and further away from their roots but this inevitable transition has been a long time coming and was instigated whilst Steve Jobs was at the helm. At the end of the day Jobs had his strengths but lets face it, he was never a one man band.
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I don't worry about Apple because that worry will do nothing for anybody. I buy products that are good value for money. If there are faults/idiosyncrasies with them (e.g. how apps work), they aren't enough to care about, let alone whine about, because if they were I wouldn't have bought the product. I'd rather discuss ways to use the products, or problem-solving, than listen to someone complain about something which can't be changed in the web app or whatever dribble they have to share.
When my livelihood depends on a product, I don't care too much about loyalty. If there's an Apple product to suit, I can use it (and there usually is!); if not, I'm going to do what it takes with a better product in order to keep providing value to my customers.
The question of buying into ecosystems is simply part of that cost-benefit equation.
As for screens:
If a product doesn't work the way I want it to, I would try exchanging, but would lose patience very quickly - perhaps the product is simply not designed in a way I am looking for. I don't care about whether it's bad luck, or poorer QC (that stupid meme is getting around on these forums pretty quick), the point is that the product doesn't do what I need. $500 isn't a magical number which entitles my standards to be met, despite what is endlessly posted. If the thing for sale is worth my money, I buy it or not, and go home and use it, end of story.
I grant that some people could have problems, but their seriousness is very difficult to evaluate from images online. I also am quite sure some people have bizarre standards and shouldn't be entertained at all. The "you're OCD" vs. "you're a philistine" arguments couple serious-issue-posters with idiot posters so we end up with the usual merry-go-round. And why are people with issues so desperate to get recognition on this forum anyway!? Just take the stupid thing back to the store.
The secondary effect is that any defects (real or perceived) get taken as signs of something going on with Apple, etc. when the evidence is far too slight for this to be anything but worthless speculation. Yet people hang an awful lot on this speculation. Throw the usual trolls and FUDsters into the mix and I don't really care about trying to cultivate 'positive discourse' with people who are paid to discuss in bad faith. If someone feels they have a problem, I encourage them to get it taken care of through an exchange or refund. The posting about it and the rest is a waste of time.
EDIT: @spcdust a good post but I don't buy the framing of 'Apple is moving into consumer electronics/toys away from their roots' - the distinction itself between consumer casual electronics and Serious Computers is dissolving. It's just a way for old Apple nerds to lament that they aren't the 'cool guys' with their Mac Pro halo effect - they haven't been that for fifteen years anyway.
EDIT 2: I'd love to see someone get a bunch of those greyscale charts done with various Apple monitors from their desktops, cinema displays, laptops etc.
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Good post and observations and I'm inclined to agree with your points
To be fair my "consumer electronics " comment was a broad strokes and I'd subscribe to the further points you make. Equally I particularly agree with the greyscale charts across Apple monitors etc
To be fair my "consumer electronics " comment was a broad strokes and I'd subscribe to the further points you make. Equally I particularly agree with the greyscale charts across Apple monitors etc
This diatribe just sounds odd and horribly out of touch. So you're a professional, as many of us are...and you're emotionally attached to your computers? Get a grip man. Computers are tools, complete with all the limitations that cutting edge technology brings with them. Computers are not works of art, they are commodities mass produced and assembled in Asia by moderately skilled factory workers making about $10 a day. This is the reality. Perhaps you need to travel to China (or any other one of numerous SE Asian countries) and see what real life is like on the ground there. Apple, via subcontractors such as Foxconn employs millions of people. Apple, with heavy doses of advertising and design, makes the mess of technology seem 'magical'. It's smoke and mirrors.
Are Apple premium products? Perhaps. At $500 the iPad isn't cheap, but then again, its not specked to ride on the Space shuttle with 110% efficiency. In fact, one reason why we are only getting the super high res screen now is because of production problems.
In summary, this is the first iPad with super high-res screen, some product defects...not surprising in the least. Return the thing and buy one in six months when they work out the kinks in the assembly lines. After all, there is a new version about every six months. As for having your bubble burst on the true nature of technology, well had to happen eventually.
Are Apple premium products? Perhaps. At $500 the iPad isn't cheap, but then again, its not specked to ride on the Space shuttle with 110% efficiency. In fact, one reason why we are only getting the super high res screen now is because of production problems.
In summary, this is the first iPad with super high-res screen, some product defects...not surprising in the least. Return the thing and buy one in six months when they work out the kinks in the assembly lines. After all, there is a new version about every six months. As for having your bubble burst on the true nature of technology, well had to happen eventually.
a simple copy and paste from the numerous other threads where you complain?
Here's what you need to do. Quit buying the iPad for awhile....obviously it's not working out for you. Maybe some counseling will help also....8 iPad's? After maybe 2 or 3 I can understand, but 8? come on now.
i left you a reply on another form, i actually did edit it some if you looked closely from one to another, so i did not copy and paste, as my response to the other part, look at what i put on the other forum, or would you like me to copy and paste it again on another forum?
I am also sick of people calling other forum members OCD, or telling them to go to counseling, that is a very unoriginal thought that is just utterly annoying and sometimes offensive in certain contexts.
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so you think it's a normal part of life to buy the same item 8 or even 14 times and continually return them? You don't think that's a little obsessive?
Of corse I don't think its normal life, In fact, I absolutely hate it and find it bothersome, for the most part, I can live with minor things, such as yellow screens (i actually like these) or a slight uneven tint(I think returning for that is obsessive). But I paid $1000 for something from a company that used to take pride in the quality of their products, but having something like deep scratches out of the box or parts of the screen lighting being dead, or even a dead pixel, is unacceptable on a device where the biggest feature is the screen, especially at the price. And as I said in a previous post, I cannot give up the iPad platform for business and other reasons.
so what will you do if you are at the 25 number mark? just keep it going and going? i'm not saying to never buy an iPad again, but if there are really that many issues why not just wait a few months?
I hope to never get to that point, but if it comes to that i really don't know, 2 people I know (who bought their iPad at the exact same store as me) have iPads with absolutely no problems, so I know that they exist and are in quantity, curiously they are from the same factory. I am just sick of this QC, some of these should have never left the factory.
The correct answer is "I'll get a refund. But I can't, because I need it for business. Therefore I'll live with some dead pixels and get on with my life." It's annoying, granted but also hugely surprising. It's statistically bizarre to get 8 bad ones in a row given how many are fine.
Very much agree with these kind of comments. I would add that there were serious problems with the first Macbook. I had the plastic broken 4 times, hard drive issues, screen discoloration,... and even a Magsafe that nearly electrocuted me.
I have been a loyal Apple customer for 13 years because I liked their high standards. With products like the early White Macbook and the new iPad I have the feeling Apple only thinks in numbers and not so much quality when selling those devices. In the new iPad most of the screens I have seen look terrible (yellow and bi-coloured in others).
If a small new company will be now created with similar values in design and customer service like the original Apple I would switch, leaving Apple for the masses.
As mcdj has said I can't say Wow! but OK I guess
If the first 2 didn't work for you, why would you keep buying the device and supporting the company? That's what I am curious about. Most logical, informed people would not purchase an item if it contained a defect over and over and over and over and over and over again.
Then again, that's just me. *shrug*
Then again, that's just me. *shrug*
Because he knows there are perfect ipads out there, and quite a few of them. I think he should keep trying till he gets what he wants. I was lucky to get a perfect ipad 3 on the first try, but if I hadn't I'd do the exchanges until I got a perfect one or ran out of patience.
This is exactly my point, I shouldn't have to put up with this at the price I pay
I haven't exchanged any of my iPads, because there weren't anything bad about them, but if it's something that I will look at for 1+ hours almost every day during next couple years of my life, then I find it not obsessive at all if I want it to look perfect.
I wonder if jumped into a time machine and went back to examine the products from the "good old days" of Apple with the same critical eye, would we find that those "flawless " devices were not so flawless after all? Sort of like looking at old pictures of yourself and being shocked by your own appearance.
I wonder if jumped into a time machine and went back to examine the products from the "good old days" of Apple with the same critical eye, would we find that those "flawless " devices were not so flawless after all? Sort of like looking at old pictures of yourself and being shocked by your own appearance.
I theoretically can do that, I own every "G" revision of the iMac, several displays and some older iPods, and I am looking at them right now and can tell you these are obviously built better then the new ones, they used to be almost 100% perfect, but the screens apple uses now have gone down in quality control.
To the OP, you have way more patience or persistence than me. I consider myself pretty anal when it comes to purchases and will not keep a subpar quality purchase that I'm not happy with. My family laughs at me with returns. But even I could not bring myself to do all the returns that you have. The stress of it all wouldn't be worth it. Thankfully all my iPad purchases have been fine. No screen issues, no dead pixels, no scratches. Between my family and the grandkids I've purchased 4 with one being the new iPad and all have been super quality. If I were I your shoes, I would truly give up the quest and try again in a few months.