Declined for Apple upgrade program?

[Applejuiced]

I just don't get the argument. I hear it daily because I'm in the business (very unfortunately at times as it's truly grueling to deal with). Your house value has ABSOLUTELY no bearing on the payment amount at any point in the loan. It's a complete red herring argument that oh my house value dropped so I couldn't afford my house.

I'm in a similar financial institution position and the excuses people give me just amaze me sometimes
Either way it is what it is and I can only help them so much.
They have to help themselves but some people just cannot control their finances. People that make lots of money with successful businesses are not able to get a loan cause of their own incompetence.

 

[cg006]

You are incorrect. I mean, I am not an expert, but my wife does work high up in a financial institute, and overseas loans and approvals, etc.

The housing market crash killed some people. Yes, some people were living beyond their means, because banks approved shady loans.

But people lost their retirement, some people's houses drop by over 50% in value...yet they were still paying on the original loan. Negative equity can be a crushing burden, financially.

Personally, I was young and wasn't affected by this, and my parents pulled through fine. But i watched people i knew crash and burn, with little fault of their own.

TLDR? Your statement is only partially correct.

I got denied. Credit score excellent+
timely carpayments, credit card payments. All accounts on check.

 

[BlueGoldAce]

I got denied. Credit score excellent+
timely carpayments, credit card payments. All accounts on check.

I'm not disputing that, or address that. I was address the quote above about the housing market crash.

Just seems to me the system was buggy on launch day. No surprise, that kind of things can be expected.

 

[Applejuiced]

I got denied. Credit score excellent+
timely carpayments, credit card payments. All accounts on check.

Find out what happened. If what your saying is accurate it could be a technical issue with address not matching on file, social security number, DOB or other small typo that didn't match what the credit reporting agency has on file for you.

 

[stulaw11]

I'm in a similar financial institution position and the excuses people give me just amaze me sometimes
Either way it is what it is and I can only help them so much.
They have to help themselves but some people just cannot control their finances. People that make lots of money with successful businesses are not able to get a loan cause of their own incompetence.

And back on topic continuing with that thought, liquidity of funds has NOTHING to do with credit worthiness. I honestly wonder where some people get their financial advice or info from- and Im not even in the financial or banking industry.

You can have $500k in the bank and $500k in investments and STILL have a 550-600 credit score and not get approved for a $750 iphone; no matter if you could buy it cash 100 times over.

 

[lordofthereef]

And back on topic continuing with that thought, liquidity of funds has NOTHING to do with credit worthiness. I honestly wonder where some people get their financial advice or info from.

You can have $500k in the bank and $500k in investments and STILL have a 550-600 credit score and not get approved for a $750 iphone; no matter if you could buy it cash 100 times over.

We make sure we out kids through ********s of math and science. Teach them how to get a loan? Eh. They'll figure it out. Calculus man. If not now, when?

 

[stulaw11]

We make sure we out kids through ********s of math and science. Teach them how to get a loan? Eh. They'll figure it out. Calculus man. If not now, when?

I just don't get it. I may have a doctorate level education but I have zero financial background in banking or stocks. Hell, I had to ask my father still how he recommends to invest money (stock tips) at 34 years old still. I know little to nothing about the market or investments and that area still; but learning.

But I can damn well use a loan/mortgage calculator online and figure it out in a few minutes what I'm getting into when I buy things. It's just truly mind boggling how ignorant some people are; especially in this age of technology. When I was in middle/early high school there were no smartphones at all yet and computer internet was text on a screen (I think smartphones came out in early college around 2000-2002ish). You couldn't get info like you can today and people survived somehow just fine.

 

[cg006]

Find out what happened. If what your saying is accurate it could be a technical issue with address not matching on file, social security number, DOB or other small typo that didn't match what the credit reporting agency has on file for you.

I already went ahead and bought it outright
There is always next year.

DAMN... THIS IS THE PHONE THE 6 Should have been!!!!!!!

**got a 6Plus S 64GB SpaceGrey

 

[DoofenshmirtzEI]

The equity in a house can affect one's ability to roll an existing loan into a new loan though. A lot of people, watching house prices inexorably rise, took out ARM's before prices went totally out of their reach, planning to roll them into a new loan before they adjusted. I personally think ARM's are like playing Russian Roulette, but I can understand the thinking. Wages weren't keeping up with the rise of house prices. When we bought our first house, it was basically, well, we do it now or we'll never be able to afford one. We bought a fixer-upper on a fixed rate, and watched incredulously as Alan Greenspan chided homeowners for taking out fixed rate mortgages instead of ARM's. We sold that house three years later at a substantial increase in price and were able to roll that extra equity into being able to afford the house we now own. We couldn't afford to buy this house now, even with the crash of real estate prices. A lot could have gone wrong with our decision. The fixer-upper could have ended up taking a lot more work than it did. We pretty much perfectly timed our jump from one house to the other, but that was only in hindsight, no way to know that at the time.

We were lucky, the people who got caught in the Great Recession were unlucky, there's not much more to it than that. You really can't blame ordinary people for doing what the Fed chairman tells them they should be doing. And I'm not going to listen to hypocrites like the Mortgage Bankers Association who tried to shame homeowners for defaulting on properties that were massively underwater even while executing their own "strategic" default on the mortgage on their headquarters building because, get this, the value had declined and was no longer worth the loan they had on it.

 

[stulaw11]

took out ARM's before prices went totally out of their reach, planning to roll them into a new loan before they adjusted.

Most important part of all of that. A conscious decision/risk.

who tried to shame homeowners for defaulting on properties that were massively underwater even while executing their own "strategic" default on the mortgage on their headquarters building because, get this, the value had declined and was no longer worth the loan they had on it.

Wait wait wait. How does the value affect the affordability of the loan? It doesnt change the amortization one penny.

So you finance a car and the minute you take it off the lot it's worth $2-3k less, whatever the amount, but a lot less than the loan not even making the first payment yet. So everyone should just choose to default now too because thy are "entitled" to a better deal now?

It's a red herring argument to make. This happens with depreciating assets with loans on them because market value is inherently uncertain and fluctuates. No matter what the case you own the asset when the loan is paid off, which may actually increase in value such as real estate

 

[Applejuiced]

I know people that got mortgages that they could barely afford to begin with.They bring in $2k a month and their payment was $1600. With almost no money down. Bad credit history too.
This dude is in his late 40's and got a 40 year mortgage. Wtf?
Like lots of the lending was out of control back then.
People were not approved to rent an apartment but banks approved them for a house.

 

[DoofenshmirtzEI]

Most important part of all of that. A conscious decision/risk.

Yup. Some people roll the dice and win (like me). Some people roll the dice and lose. It's awfully tempting when you're a winner to puff yourself up and feel like you're special and you did something that those losers didn't do and that's why you're a winner and they're a loser. Sure, there's not being a total idiot (I will be all judgy about the woman at work who complained one day about having a hard time making her car payments, and the next telling me she's decided she's going to buy duplicates of all her CDs - yeah, this is an old story, so what? - so she'll have a set for home and a set for the car), but good outcomes are often more about luck than winners like to admit. Choosing to buy that house is a risk, but so is choosing to not buy that house. We are in enormously better financial condition because we've been in our house with a constant payment, and not facing rents jacking up every year.

Wait wait wait. How does the value affect the affordability of the loan? It doesnt change the amortization one penny.

If your "roll of the dice" is "people have easily been able to roll their teaser ARM's over before they adjust for years because real estate keeps going up in price, so I'm gonna do the same thing", then it does affect affordability. All of a sudden you can't roll over (your equity has vanished), and your expected payment skyrockets.

The value of the Mortgage Banker's Association building plummeting didn't affect their amortization either, but they still "strategically" defaulted.

So you finance a car and the minute you take it off the lot it's worth $2-3k less, whatever the amount, but a lot less than the loan not even making the first payment yet. So everyone should just choose to default now too because thy are "entitled" to a better deal now?

It's a red herring argument to make. This happens with depreciating assets with loans on them because market value is inherently uncertain and fluctuates.

A house has historically not been a depreciating asset, but an appreciating one. It's ludicrous to compare it to a car. It's ludicrous to expect people to take the risk of not buying a house just because the price *might* go down, especially when every drip of advice you hear from every expert says "Buy that house!"

 

[Applejuiced]

If you're ready to roll the dice and willing to take the risk then you have no one to blame if you busted.
You either suck it up and pay the remaining balance or foreclose and suffer the consequences.
But at least take responsibility for your actions

 

[stulaw11]

A house has historically not been a depreciating asset, but an appreciating one. It's ludicrous to compare it to a car. It's ludicrous to expect people to take the risk of not buying a house just because the price *might* go down, especially when every drip of advice you hear from every expert says "Buy that house!"

Historically doesn't mean guaranteed by any means. In fact there have been other periods of housing values dropping in the last 30-40 years, while not as much at 2009 were still double digit percentage drops in value, its far from unheard of.


See the first graph here. http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/

 

[CNeufeld]

No offence, but you guys have taken this train way off the track...

C

 

[stulaw11]

No offence, but you guys have taken this train way off the track...

C

Unfortunately yes it got there. My original point was credit issues are one's own fault no matter how much your income is and money in the bank.

 

[bradl]

Unfortunately yes it got there. My original point was credit issues are one's own fault no matter how much your income is and money in the bank.

No-one is arguing that. But my point is that stating that someone shouldn't do X because of their credit being Y, and equating that to not living in their means is bollocks. personally, I have lived within our means, and while having the ability to get what I need outright, that does nothing for improving my credit. That doesn't mean that I am not or can not live within my means, and the assumption that less than stellar credit = not living within means is incorrect.

In my predicament, car is paid. For the house, losing over half its value really took a hit for me, and to be honest, what is the logic in paying 200% of the amount that the house is worth? Again, like I said, that is the only activity on my report.

Additionally, having to pay out of pocket for an ocular enucleation for my wife's eye is what took me over (WARNING: contains very graphic photos). But if that's being equated to not living within means, I'll take that and wear it pridefully, as I'd rather pay that out of pocket and my children have their mother and me have my wife, than have bacteria fly up her optic nerve and killing her, just to have my house payments in to keep my credit in shape.

Again, my point is that people don't know other's financial situations to assume that they are crappy with their finances. Be all/end all is that while people can't do the AUP, they shouldn't also live with the stigma that they are crappy with money and finances.

BL.

 

[Shadowbech]

so just a quick question. Is there a possibility to completely pay off the loan before time? or you are stuck with paying the monthly payments?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe they will make you pay monthly for the first 6 month and then after that you have the option to pay of the rest. I haven't done iUP as I have decided not to go with that route so I wouldn't know how it works for iUP, but I know that for a fact that for Carrier financing, after 1st month payment, I think you have the option to pay to upgrade or pay in full.

 

[Applejuiced]

In my predicament, car is paid. For the house, losing over half its value really took a hit for me, and to be honest, what is the logic in paying 200% of the amount that the house is worth? Again, like I said, that is the only activity on my report.
BL.

Why is your house losing equity is such a hit for you?
That shouldn't have anything to do with you continuing to make your monthly mortgage payment that you agreed on your loan?
Everyone's house took a hit, what is that supposed to mean? Stop paying your mortgage? No.
Some lost and others made out with this recession. But if you continue to pay on time your obligations to creditors then you'd be fine.
About the medical issue I understand that wasn't anyones fault and it was unexpected. Hope everything works out well for her and she has no more health issues.

 

[CanadaMaple]

Every American house took a hit, what is that supposed to mean? Stop paying your mortgage? No.
Some lost and others made out with this recession. But if you continue to pay on time your obligations to creditors then you'd be fine.

There. Fixed it.

 

[RebornProphet]

Congrats to everyone who is finding a way to brag about their credit scores in this thread!

Thank God someone said it. What a bunch of pompous, willy waving nonsense ... "Yah, doth thy have a mighty credit score of 780? Yah, I shall runneth to the forum of Rumors of Mac to declare thy score for the world to see!"