Definitive evidence Retina Macbook pro slowdowns are software based

[wankey]

Install Chrome Dev Channel, go to about:flags and find Render all pages in GPU, and enable Threaded rendering.

If you want, disable VSync as well but that's not as big of a performance improvement.

Restart chrome.

All pages now render at 60FPS (turn on the FPS counter to check) and sometimes 70FPS once the VSync is disabled.

The lowest I saw was around 30-40FPS, and this was usually caused by overlaid div issues or semi transparent div backgrounds (again I think this is a software issue that will be solved) needless to say my scrolling issues have COMPLETELY disappeared and I forget I'm using a Retina display.

Just wait till the software matures for this computer, people are too quick to jump the gun.

If I can run Diablo 3 on 2880x1800 at 20 fps, I'm sure it can render some text on a screen. Definitely a software issue that'll improve over time, not a hardware problem.

People are too early to jump on the "lets blame hardware" bandwagon.

 

[leman]

What about CPU/GPU temperatures and battery drain when these things are enabled? Which GPU is being used, the internal one or the dedicated one?

 

[wankey]

What about CPU/GPU temperatures and battery drain when these things are enabled? Which GPU is being used, the internal one or the dedicated one?

I have GFXCardStatus and setting it to integrated vs dedicated shows no performance slow down.

So I set it to integrated when on battery and dynamic when plugged in.

The performance is literally insane.

 

[Fynd]

Just tried this. theverge.com and facebook.com struggle to break 20fps on integrated or discrete graphics with these settings enabled.

 

[flipnap]

i think theres still a lot of confusion as to whats going on under the hood technically speaking to make these retinas flow. Apple is doing a LOT of trickery to keep these displays relatively smooth. im still slightly confused as to whats responsible for what. i was in the apple store yesterday for quite sometime on one. I was on an 8gb machine and the graphics staggering and stuttering was extremely noticable. screen tearing in the OS was quite noticible when doing basic tasks.i switched over to discrete and it didnt make a bit of difference. i was actually shocked because i thought the stuttering was a graphics card issue. So im wondering if 16g of ram would help instead of the graphics card.

my new macbook pro non retina performed horribly with parallels, graphics stuttering and skipping as well but it was because i needed more RAM and once i upgraded it was smooth. Im wondering if you guys who are having a smooth experience on the rMBP is simply because you have more ram. Honestly, on the 8g machine last night, typical OS operations like swiping, or Maximizing was pretty bad, graphics tearing and stuttering. i have 7 days left to return my 2012 purchase non retina model (honestly, the screen res on this compared to retina is so bad its giving me headaches) but i dont understand whats driving the retina to behave that way, nobody seems to know what the issue is.

 

[wankey]

Just tried this. theverge.com and facebook.com struggle to break 20fps on integrated or discrete graphics with these settings enabled.

If you notice there are 2 cases:

When GPU rendering is full on, you don't get the animation when you hit the top and bottom. FPS shoots up to 60-70fps. This works for most websites like reddit, macrumors, etc.

Once you hit sites with heavy absolute positioned divs and various other float over divs, the GPU rendering seems to be turned off or the GPU struggles to render these relatively simple divs. I'm working on a website and it seems that any floating div aligned to the window turns this GPU rendering off.

(I can actually test this, I have a floating div similar to Pinterest, but once I remove that, FPS shoots from 20fps to 60fps again)

Right now Twitter / Facebook breaks GPU rendering (as with any other site that has some kind of window positioned absolute div)

I agree that it's definitely some kind of caching trickery, ie, once the page loads the GPU makes a quick screenshot of it and scrolls that. But hey, the results of that is 60FPS with no visible difference then I'm all for that

 

[gentlefury]

i think theres still a lot of confusion as to whats going on under the hood technically speaking to make these retinas flow. Apple is doing a LOT of trickery to keep these displays relatively smooth. im still slightly confused as to whats responsible for what. i was in the apple store yesterday for quite sometime on one. I was on an 8gb machine and the graphics staggering and stuttering was extremely noticable. screen tearing in the OS was quite noticible when doing basic tasks.i switched over to discrete and it didnt make a bit of difference. i was actually shocked because i thought the stuttering was a graphics card issue. So im wondering if 16g of ram would help instead of the graphics card.

my new macbook pro non retina performed horribly with parallels, graphics stuttering and skipping as well but it was because i needed more RAM and once i upgraded it was smooth. Im wondering if you guys who are having a smooth experience on the rMBP is simply because you have more ram. Honestly, on the 8g machine last night, typical OS operations like swiping, or Maximizing was pretty bad, graphics tearing and stuttering. i have 7 days left to return my 2012 purchase non retina model (honestly, the screen res on this compared to retina is so bad its giving me headaches) but i dont understand whats driving the retina to behave that way, nobody seems to know what the issue is.

With the i7 chips the more ram you put in, the more vram you have on battery/low power mode. Integrated graphics memory is based on how much you can spare. 16GB brings it to almost a GB of vram, which I'm sure can make a big difference when rendering using the HD4000.

 

[flipnap]

so the idea that OS performance on the rMBP can be vastly different between 8 and 16 g machines, regardless of discrete graphic performance?

 

[wankey]

With the i7 chips the more ram you put in, the more vram you have on battery/low power mode. Integrated graphics memory is based on how much you can spare. 16GB brings it to almost a GB of vram, which I'm sure can make a big difference when rendering using the HD4000.

Not sure if I completely agree with this, discrete has 1gb of ram and has no visible difference.

 

[flipnap]

see, this is what im saying. nobody seems to be able to pinpoint exactly whats going on here. vram, ram, software? ive read two very different results of graphics staggering on these machines and im starting to think the real issue is two different ram configurations of 8 vs 16. Ive read on these forums users having literally zero issues other than the occasional stutter, then theres the "so much stuttering im thinking of returning it" ...starting to wonder if its simply a ram issue.

 

[gentlefury]

Being a completely new piece of hardware, I'm sure there will be updates coming soon to address any issues. ML is coming out in a couple weeks....so I'm sure that will address a lot of issues...be patient, early adopters. I never freak out over new device hiccups. It's expected and will be repaired...as long as there aren't any show stoppers, like iMac crashing on flash playback...we should be good (even that got resolved within a month of release.)

 

[wankey]

see, this is what im saying. nobody seems to be able to pinpoint exactly whats going on here. vram, ram, software? ive read two very different results of graphics staggering on these machines and im starting to think the real issue is two different ram configurations of 8 vs 16. Ive read on these forums users having literally zero issues other than the occasional stutter, then theres the "so much stuttering im thinking of returning it" ...starting to wonder if its simply a ram issue.

I'm wondering if it's simply an issue between the keyboard and chair. Honestly the computer is great, I use it for work and off work and it suites my needs as a graphcis designer / web dev, occasional hardcore comp engineer too.

 

[georgia-svt]

I have the base rMBP 2.3/8/256 and I have no scroll lag problems. I use facebook pretty heavy and it flows smooth as does all transitions. I'm pretty OCD when it comes to spending this much money and I see and have zero problems with this laptop. I hope you guys figure it out. Mine is also with stock default settings 1440x900 best for retina.
jeff

 

[leman]

16GB brings it to almost a GB of vram, which I'm sure can make a big difference when rendering using the HD4000.

Why would it be an advantage? A full 2880x1800 image is just around 20 MB. Add offscreen buffers for subelements, windows, etc, and you maybe end up with 5 times as much storage requirements. Around 150Mb or so should be enough to pack in everything you need.

 

[gentlefury]

Why would it be an advantage? A full 2880x1800 image is just around 20 MB. Add offscreen buffers for subelements, windows, etc, and you maybe end up with 5 times as much storage requirements. Around 150Mb or so should be enough to pack in everything you need.

Are you serious?? Wtf is wrong with this forum??? Is it required that everyone is negative about everything? Why would more ram and more vram be an advantage...I don't know, according to you its not.

Though I'm guessing if I said something like, you don't need that much ram you would say that you do.

I'm getting sick of this forum being full of people with a need to argue rather than discuss anything!

 

[leman]

Are you serious?? Wtf is wrong with this forum??? Is it required that everyone is negative about everything? Why would more ram and more vram be an advantage...I don't know, according to you its not.

Though I'm guessing if I said something like, you don't need that much ram you would say that you do.

I'm getting sick of this forum being full of people with a need to argue rather than discuss anything!

No reason to get so exited. I was just asking why you thing that 1GB VRAM would substantially speed up a task for which a few hundred MB are already more then enough. Having a 1000ps car won't let you be any quicker in a rush hour either.

BTW, I am, discussing, you are the one who is arguing

 

[gentlefury]

No reason to get so exited. I was just asking why you thing that 1GB VRAM would substantially speed up a task for which a few hundred MB are already more then enough. Having a 1000ps car won't let you be any quicker in a rush hour either.

BTW, I am, discussing, you are the one who is arguing

The additional ram can only help and never hurt. My car is fast...not in bumper to bumper...but once that traffic clears I am happy to have a car that can blast ahead....also when there are breaks in traffic I don't have to be afraid to but thru since I have the power to do it without any incidents.

 

[stevelam]

Seriously? It's obviously not a RAM issue. If a computer needs 16gb of ram just to scroll up and down than that is a monumental failure of a machine.

 

[gentlefury]

Seriously? It's obviously not a RAM issue. If a computer needs 16gb of ram just to scroll up and down than that is a monumental failure of a machine.

I agree, scrolling is not a hardware function. It might be OpenGL accelerated tho. Which would account for graphics memory and unfortunately with the power saver HD4000 GPU, the VRAM is based on how much physical memory you have.

 

[flipnap]

I'm wondering if it's simply an issue between the keyboard and chair. Honestly the computer is great

Please be an adult, Im not here to argue the merits of owning this machine. Ive been using apple products since day one, i dont need people telling me its a great machine. I know its great, thats why im on this forum asking the question.

Im ready to pull the trigger and buy a rMBP and Im willing to settle for a few hiccups to get this gorgeous screen but Id like to know technically why things are behaving the way they are so i can make an informed decision. The lagging and tearing I witnessed at the store on the 8g model was not in my head and it wasnt a "small issue". If you don't know simply say you dont know. Im looking for a simple technical answer as to why switching between between on board and discrete wouldnt make a difference on an 8G ram model if supposedly the OS is driving the screen from the graphics chips.

Im seeing WIDELY varying reports of the smoothness on this display and im trying to figure out if its due to the ram configuration. Please dont respond with "deal with it", "its a beautiful machine", etc.

 

[flipnap]

by the way, im starting to wonder if theres something on the imaged drives at apple that might be causing this as well.

 

[Mr. Retrofire]

I agree, scrolling is not a hardware function. It might be OpenGL accelerated tho.

OpenGL is a hardware function.

 

[gentlefury]

OpenGL is a hardware function.

That was my point. While the scrolling is not a hardware issue, if it is OpenGL accelerated it becomes one.

 

[brans]

Using Safari, any one else notice scrolling on Facebook is much smoother if you play a video thats been posted to your news feed?

 

[astrorider]

I'm wondering if it's simply an issue between the keyboard and chair. Honestly the computer is great, I use it for work and off work and it suites my needs as a graphcis designer / web dev, occasional hardcore comp engineer too.

Some people are definitely more sensitive to a little lag then others, probably depending on their other computing experiences. If you were around for the early OS X days, you probably wouldn't even refer to what the rMBP has as lag.