All easily accounted for by letting the cousin use OSX's guest account feature. Easy to setup, keeps deleted files safe (well as safe as trash).
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Deleting selected items from Trash
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All easily accounted for by letting the cousin use OSX's guest account feature. Easy to setup, keeps deleted files safe (well as safe as trash).
True - if you think about it or are aware of it. I'm sure there's a good % of people in that situation wouldn't know how or forget or just wouldn't be bothered - a quick "sure - go ahead" reply is much more likely than "yes, just wait first until I setup the guest account...".
The thing I don't understand is why people are arguing against this - I can't see how it can be a bad thing in any way for anyone if Apple were to add a "really delete" option into the trash can. No one would be forced to use it. And if they did add it I'm sure nobody would be complaining about it, despite all the strange posts here.
The thing I don't understand is why people are arguing against this - I can't see how it can be a bad thing in any way for anyone if Apple were to add a "really delete" option into the trash can. No one would be forced to use it. And if they did add it I'm sure nobody would be complaining about it, despite all the strange posts here.
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Youre wasting your time arguing with these guys. If Apple does it a certain way, there are just some that cant see anything else (like some of the posters above who never make mistakes and delete the wrong file). I use the method I posted above to permanently delete files all the time. Its what I like, but not what others like. Just move on.
That's not an accurate representation. I admit it would be cool
if Mac OS came with every bell and whistle on the planet preinstalled. But this thread is bitching about Apple not compensating for the bad habits of a select few. Why should they **have** to? Rule 1: don't put anything in the trash unless it's trash. Simple.
[and my kitchen analogy was perfectly valid, despite protests.]
If you want to use the trash as some sort of resting place while you deliberate about whether or not to actually delete the item(s), then you'll need to find some 3rd-party ware(s) to support that particular "workflow".
Want to shred an item immediately? Then make a droplet with AppleScript that runs rm -rf on dropped items (or srm -rf for secure deletions). Is that dangerous? You bet (thus it doesn't exist by default). But it's certainly possible, and quite simple for power-users to code (and/or n00bs to download from somewhere).
You appear to be unwilling to accept the fact that sharing accounts is very bad practice. MacOS X is a multiuser operating system. Every regular user should have his/her own account. It is up to the users to work out the privileges. It is a trivial matter to create a new account for a home guest. You may even keep a guest account on the system for those friends and family who just want to surf the web or some such.
You do not bolster your argument by claiming that some people are too stupid and lazy to learn a minimal set of features of their computer. This Mac user administers computers that are accessible to multiple users, many of whom think like you do. The nitwits among the legitimate users think that it is OK to share their accounts with friends. Their friends take astounding liberties with the system.
There is no way to account for everything that these liberty-taking friends will try to do on a borrowed account. It begins with attempts to download and install software on the computer. And there is no way to protect a regular or administrative account from them. I cannot give these legitimate users anything more than a limited account.
Your points are all valid and true, but the scenarios mentioned were just posted to show some situations where it is necessary to have the "really delete a file" feature available. I've regretted posting them already as it allowed for too many easy rebuttals.
Anyway the script is useful for me and I'm sure a lot of others and I hope some people like my modification of it.
Whether or not a basic important feature is missing from the OS or not is debatable. I think so, others don't, so be it, its not that big a deal anyways.
Anyway the script is useful for me and I'm sure a lot of others and I hope some people like my modification of it.
Whether or not a basic important feature is missing from the OS or not is debatable. I think so, others don't, so be it, its not that big a deal anyways.
That's not an accurate representation. I admit it would be cool
Rule 1: don't put anything in the trash unless it's trash. Simple.
[and my kitchen analogy was perfectly valid, despite protests.]
If you want to use the trash as some sort of resting place while you deliberate about whether or not to actually delete the item(s), then you'll need to find some 3rd-party ware(s) to support that particular "workflow".
Want to shred an item immediately? Then make a droplet with AppleScript that runs rm -rf on dropped items (or srm -rf for secure deletions). Is that dangerous? You bet (thus it doesn't exist by default). But it's certainly possible, and quite simple for power-users to code (and/or n00bs to download from somewhere).
Uh, no, its not. This thread is about how to do it for those who want to. Its just a number of posters had to come in and state why would anyone want to do this, like you. The options are available as posted in this thread for those who asked how to do it. Go rant elsewhere.
And that was fine (IMO) until phrases like "glaring omission" started popping up. Then it became necessary —for the benefit of those readers who might be misled by such nonsense —to clarify how to properly use the trash, lest such myths become "knowledge" or accepted as fact.
I don't think that's the "whole point" of requiring the trash can. A two-stage process also helps avoid accidentally deleting stuff we didn't intend to erase. [which is quite different from "changing one's mind".]
Here are 2 freewares turned up by a quick search of MacUpdate:
Shredder Widget
Permanent Eraser
There are (of course) some shareware solutions as well, which probably afford even more flexibility.
If a) was implemented, then b) and c) would already be covered.
[deleting "in place" means anyplace]
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Someone already said the same thing just a couple of post above yours. My reply to him was as follows:
Your analogy of the Mac's Trash Folder with Real Trash Cans is a false analogy. The purpose of Real Trash Cans is NOT to act as a buffer, in case the user wish to retrieve items. It is merely a convenient device to save the user from walking all the way to the landfill every time an item needs to be dumped. The Trash Can in Mac OS X clearly serves a completely different purpose.
Why do people on that side of the argument always use these ridiculous analogies?
It's exactly this Apple-can-do-no-wrong attitude which keeps this thread going forever.
Looks guys, there are two sides to this thread. One which insists that users MUST do things the Apple way (i.e. do not delete anything unless you are SURE you need to delete it - the Trash Can is for fat finger errors ONLY), and there is the other camp that wants the Trash Can to act as a buffer, in case the user later wants to retrieve the file (don't ask us WHY, we've explained it many times already). There's no point arguing any further. The case has been made very clearly why some users want the buffer solution. But the do-it-the-Apple-way users aren't going to accept it. So let's stop here. Some guys have already written a script. There's also a horrible workaround which many pro-Mac users provided which works, although it's tedious. So we do have options here.
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Yes, they are called the right side and the wrong side. Look. Using the Trash for general storage is a workaround for a Windows problem that the Mac does not have. However, it is bad practice. The Trash is labeled Trash. It is not labeled Temporary General Storage. If you want Temporary General Storage, then you can create a folder, name it Temporary General Storage, and drag it to the Finder sidebar and the Dock. You may then place your files there as easily as you place them in the Trash.
Let's get the definitions out of the way first, once and for all. Apple created the Trash Can. Therefore, by definition, the right way to use the Trash Can is to use it the way Apple intended, and any other way is wrong. However, the current functionality of the Mac Trash Can may not fit the requirements of all users, and therefore these users have proposed expanding the functionality of the Trash Can, by making it more flexible. This proposal can be accepted or rejected, but to make such a proposal is NOT wrong. There is no "right side and wrong side". Moreover, because this proposal is to add functionality and not replace functionality it really should not matter to those who reject it.
A "Windows problem"? A "problem" that the Mac does not have? And what problem might that be? The Mac Trash Can and the Windows Recycle Bin are both data recovery tools. The former deals with fat finger errors, while the second deals with that, as well as act as a buffer for longer term file retrieval. In this respect, the Mac Trash Can has less functionality than the Windows Recycle Bin.
And just to be clear, while it might be considered by some to be "bad practice" to use the Mac Trash Can like a Windows Recycle Bin, it is not "bad practice" to use the Windows Recycle Bin like a Windows Recycle Bin. (i.e. Using the Windows Recycle Bin the way it was intended is the right way.)
While your idea is not as convenient as pressing the delete key, it is certainly a valid workaround - one amongst several others. It works as described for the primary partition on the primary drive, but it becomes a multi-step process for secondary partitions and drives, where it is not possible to move files in a single step to a folder residing on a separate partition / drive.
I am very happy that you asked this. As a Windows user, you are obviously used to it, but it is a problem nevertheless. The problem is that the Windows file system is much less accessible to its users than the Mac file system is to its users.
If the Windows user wants to navigate the file system using Windows Explorer, then the user must double-click My Documents and then stumble around there looking for the desired file. The Recycle Bin is on the Desktop at the same level as My Documents. The only directory that is more convenient to the Windows user than the Recycle Bin is the Desktop. Most Windows Desktops that I have seen are cluttered with working files. Thus, parking items in the Recycle Bin is the most convenient option for removing clutter from the Desktop.
The Mac
In any Finder window, a single click opens the Documents folder. Favorite folders may be placed on the Dock where they become stacks. Folders containing files in use may simply be left open. The Trash does not present an access advantage over other folders in the Mac file system.We've had this conversation twice already months ago. This is the third time. I don't want to sound condescending but are you a regular Windows user? Because it seems as if you are not very familiar with it at all.
That's not the only way. Just like the Mac Desktop, the Windows Desktop can accommodate both shortcuts and files. If one were to double click on the My Computer shortcut, one would be taken to the system root, where all disk drives are shown, similar to Finder. And just like Finder, it is possible to set the default to any directory.
The Windows Recycle Bin is a folder situated in the root directory of every drive. Similar to the Mac, My Documents is a sub-folder within the primary partition of the primary drive. Just like the Mac, the two folders are not of the same level.
Just like the Mac, the Windows desktop can accommodate the shortcuts of any folders. Just like the Mac, any of those shortcuts / alias is as convenient as the Recycle Bin / Trash.
Just like the Mac, the Windows desktop can be cluttered. Just like the Mac, the easiest way to delete those files on the desktop is drag it to the Recycle Bin / Trash.
Just like Windows Explorer.
Just like Windows Task Bar. One can place short cuts of folders on the Task Bar that spring open.
Just like Windows.
WHAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING?
The Mac Desktop is better than the Windows Desktop. The Mac Dock is better than the Windows Taskbar. The Mac Finder is definitely MUCH better than the Windows Explorer. BUT none of the stuff you mentioned are different. The file structure is remarkably similar. The functionalities are similar. The biggest different is the interface, where Mac is known as the best.
I apologise for sounding condescending, but you got to brush up on your knowledge of Windows before making comparisons between the two.
That's not the only way. Just like the Mac Desktop, the Windows Desktop can accommodate both shortcuts and files. If one were to double click on the My Computer shortcut, one would be taken to the system root, where all disk drives are shown, similar to Finder. And just like Finder, it is possible to set the default to any directory.
The Windows Recycle Bin is a folder situated in the root directory of every drive. Similar to the Mac, My Documents is a sub-folder within the primary partition of the primary drive. Just like the Mac, the two folders are not of the same level.
Just like the Mac, the Windows desktop can accommodate the shortcuts of any folders. Just like the Mac, any of those shortcuts / alias is as convenient as the Recycle Bin / Trash.
Just like the Mac, the Windows desktop can be cluttered. Just like the Mac, the easiest way to delete those files on the desktop is drag it to the Recycle Bin / Trash.
The Mac
Just like Windows Explorer.
Just like Windows Task Bar. One can place short cuts of folders on the Task Bar that spring open.
Just like Windows.
WHAT IS THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING?
The Mac Desktop is better than the Windows Desktop. The Mac Dock is better than the Windows Taskbar. The Mac Finder is definitely MUCH better than the Windows Explorer. BUT none of the stuff you mentioned are different. The file structure is remarkably similar. The functionalities are similar. The biggest different is the interface, where Mac is known as the best.
I apologise for sounding condescending, but you got to brush up on your knowledge of Windows before making comparisons between the two.
Selectively deleting items from the Trash
I am rather new to mac and surprised to find out that selective deletions from the Trash seem not possible. Moreover, I cannot find a command to immediately deleting an item without going to the Trash.
And last, If I delete e.g. mpr3 files than iTunes still keeps them in it's library and playable!
The work around I have is with the help of the terminal window.
1. Open a terminal window
2. Open the Trash
3. In the terminal window, to make sure, first type "ls -dl ". No return yet!
4. Drag a file or folder you want to delete to the terminal window. Press Enter (or Return)
5. Check the correct file is listed.
6. If you need to delete: Type "rm -r " dan again drag the file or folder to the terminal windows.
7. After pressing "Return" the file or directory with all of it's contents will be deleted from the trash.
Note:
Do take care on filenames with spaces, they need quotation!
No way back, if you make a typing mistake on a file with "*" everything can be gone!
I am rather new to mac and surprised to find out that selective deletions from the Trash seem not possible. Moreover, I cannot find a command to immediately deleting an item without going to the Trash.
And last, If I delete e.g. mpr3 files than iTunes still keeps them in it's library and playable!
The work around I have is with the help of the terminal window.
1. Open a terminal window
2. Open the Trash
3. In the terminal window, to make sure, first type "ls -dl ". No return yet!
4. Drag a file or folder you want to delete to the terminal window. Press Enter (or Return)
5. Check the correct file is listed.
6. If you need to delete: Type "rm -r " dan again drag the file or folder to the terminal windows.
7. After pressing "Return" the file or directory with all of it's contents will be deleted from the trash.
Note:
Do take care on filenames with spaces, they need quotation!
No way back, if you make a typing mistake on a file with "*" everything can be gone!
It has been my experience that the best way to work around differences like this is to just give it time--before you know it, you will forget how you even did it in Windows.
I might be wrong, but I believe if this is true if you delete a song from a playlist. All you're doing is deleting what amounts to an alias; the actual file remains. To fully delete a file, you need to select it in the Music Library and delete it from there.
mt
I believe you have it right--I do that all the time since my iPhone playlist is the way I keep track of what is on my phone.
Hi, everyone. After some time lurking, I just registered in order to reply in this thread. I meant to do it for weeks, but never had the time.
First of all, I'd like to thank all the people who helped with good advice, scripts and understanding. You are very kind.
Next I'd like to say, like someone did before, that, IMHO, selective emptying is a glaring omission in MacOS. Yes, glaring omission is my personal opinion. That, windows being resizable only from the bottom right corner, the lack of cut/paste for files and, last but not least, the green button not being able to maximize windows when clicked with alt or ctrl or fn keys.
Selective emptying of the trash is a Windows feature, yes, but it's also present in many other platforms like GMail and its extremely elegant use of the trash, Yahoo Mail and (at least) some Linux distros. So it can't be such a bad idea. If it was, there wouldn't be so many commercial apps that did it ($20 for To The Trash, $10 for Smart Trash, $2 for OneTrash...)
Besides, MacOS has ways to do some things the Windows way (one example: Fn+Backspace = Delete) and Apple spends considerable amounts of money in ads trying to convince Win users into biting the Apple.
What I can't understand is this fanatic behavior of a few individuals who take part in a thread like this one only to tell people that their opinions are wrong and/or that the Apple way is the only way. Many people think they'd be happier with a certain feature in OS, so what? What would I have heard if, years ago, I said that something like Finder's column view would be useful? What did this fanatics think of the first MacBook Air's lack of USB ports? And what do they think now? And what about the iPhone having a micro-USB port? (European units will be forced to implement it before the year's end). Did they think an HDMI connector in a MacMini would be heretic?
We want to delete now the files on the TV pendrive but not some other files and do it fluidly; is that such a crime?
First of all, I'd like to thank all the people who helped with good advice, scripts and understanding. You are very kind.
Next I'd like to say, like someone did before, that, IMHO, selective emptying is a glaring omission in MacOS. Yes, glaring omission is my personal opinion. That, windows being resizable only from the bottom right corner, the lack of cut/paste for files and, last but not least, the green button not being able to maximize windows when clicked with alt or ctrl or fn keys.
Selective emptying of the trash is a Windows feature, yes, but it's also present in many other platforms like GMail and its extremely elegant use of the trash, Yahoo Mail and (at least) some Linux distros. So it can't be such a bad idea. If it was, there wouldn't be so many commercial apps that did it ($20 for To The Trash, $10 for Smart Trash, $2 for OneTrash...)
Besides, MacOS has ways to do some things the Windows way (one example: Fn+Backspace = Delete) and Apple spends considerable amounts of money in ads trying to convince Win users into biting the Apple.
What I can't understand is this fanatic behavior of a few individuals who take part in a thread like this one only to tell people that their opinions are wrong and/or that the Apple way is the only way. Many people think they'd be happier with a certain feature in OS, so what? What would I have heard if, years ago, I said that something like Finder's column view would be useful? What did this fanatics think of the first MacBook Air's lack of USB ports? And what do they think now? And what about the iPhone having a micro-USB port? (European units will be forced to implement it before the year's end). Did they think an HDMI connector in a MacMini would be heretic?
We want to delete now the files on the TV pendrive but not some other files and do it fluidly; is that such a crime?
Under Mac OS 9, the "zoom" window function was actually an event the programmer had to account for. The programmer decided how big a window should be zoomed, not the OS. I've done far too little programming under OS X to speak definitively, but my hunch is, if you have software that doesn't behave properly after you hit the green button, you should tell the developer, not complain to Apple.
mt
Workable solution
Find the backup file in the trash, right click and choose "Put Back." Then go to Disk Utility and erase or reformat the disk the backup file is on. This will keep from making copies of the backup file as if you were to just simply drag it out. Obviously only do this if you don't have precious files you don't care to erase. I stumbled upon this fix myself after months of searching the Internet and forums.
Find the backup file in the trash, right click and choose "Put Back." Then go to Disk Utility and erase or reformat the disk the backup file is on. This will keep from making copies of the backup file as if you were to just simply drag it out. Obviously only do this if you don't have precious files you don't care to erase. I stumbled upon this fix myself after months of searching the Internet and forums.
It's a fact that having non-selective emptying trash is a horrible omission in the OS. Something which i've personally being working around with 'Temp files' folder for 11 years.
Of course there are times when you want something in trash but to auto delete eventually.
What the people who reply "the trash isn't a buffer area" complete miss.... is that: Yes it is a buffer area!! If it wasn't, then what is the point in the trash file at all? If I press delete, then a file should just be deleted, no? Why make deleting files a two step action? Why? Because it IS a buffer.
Having trash hold xGB of data where older items are deleted as newer ones are placed in it, is the most elegant and user-friendly solution to this OS problem.
Of course there are times when you want something in trash but to auto delete eventually.
What the people who reply "the trash isn't a buffer area" complete miss.... is that: Yes it is a buffer area!! If it wasn't, then what is the point in the trash file at all? If I press delete, then a file should just be deleted, no? Why make deleting files a two step action? Why? Because it IS a buffer.
Having trash hold xGB of data where older items are deleted as newer ones are placed in it, is the most elegant and user-friendly solution to this OS problem.
Oh noes! That would make my precious files that I store in the trash to be automatically deleted against my will if I delete a very large file or two sometime later!
The trash in OS X makes perfect sense to me. It's just like a waste paper basket by your desk. If you ever put something there that shouldn't be you can reach in and retrieve it (i.e "Put Back"). Every so often you take the trash out (i.e "Empty Trash"). But you don't ever take out only selective bits of the trash, you take it all out.