Deleting selected items from Trash

[retty]

The trash in OS X makes perfect sense to me. It's just like a waste paper basket by your desk. If you ever put something there that shouldn't be you can reach in and retrieve it (i.e "Put Back"). Every so often you take the trash out (i.e "Empty Trash"). But you don't ever take out only selective bits of the trash, you take it all out.

But a system on a computer doesn't have to fit with the limitations of the real-world. If you want to stretch the analogy don't you think it would be cool if your waste paper basket at home automatically emptied itself of banana skins, food wrappers and nail clippings while leaving any notes or possibly useful things in there for longer?

Making software fit with real-world analogies so snuggly is pointless, it's a only a good starting point from a usability perspective.

We should be asking and pushing Apple to make things better, not defending everything they do no matter how poorly. Apple is not perfect! *gasp*

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

How on earth would that work. A computer cannot differentiate between "banana skins" and "useful notes".

The main point here is why would you throw anything away that you intend to keep, unless by accident.

Also I'm about as far as you can get from being an apple fanboy apologist. How you got that impression from one single post stating a personal opinion is beyond me.

 

[retty]

How on earth would that work. A computer cannot differentiate between "banana skins" and "useful notes".

I wasn't suggesting the computer did this –*my point was that you were comparing the way a software system works to a real-world object. Which doesn't work "My trash at home works like this so the computer should". My point was that your trash at home works like that because it is the only way it can -*real life doesn't allow it to do more… therefore software shouldn't be designed to real-world analogies were there are inherent limitations. Do you see what I mean?

The main point here is why would you throw anything away that you intend to keep, unless by accident.

Which comes back to the point… then why have the trash? Just permanently delete files when the users presses delete?

I think i'm a pretty average user, checking my trash right now… I have:
> Audio files removed from itunes (rather these were deleted straight away)
> ZIP archives (should be deleted right away)
> Previous versions of Photoshop files (very unlikely to use if don't open them within the next few days, don't want to file away because that would mean I need to actively administrate my work folders for old documents every week –*waste of time)
> Job specifications (written proposals for these, unlikely to need but might need to reference then over the next week. Again no point in filing)

So as you see –*it's not a case for some users (myself being one) that files are either 'trash' or 'to keep'. The current system doesn't work for me and users like myself

Also I'm about as far as you can get from being an apple fanboy apologist. How you got that impression from one single post stating a personal opinion is beyond me.

Apologise you thought I meant you, I was actually aiming that at earlier comments made on this thread which were of exhibited extreme 'fanboyism'

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

Limiting software to real world standards can be a good thing. It avoids a lot of confusion for the average user. The trash in OS X looks and behaves just the real thing. It's designed to be used in exactly the same way. This is what makes it perfectly adequate for the majority of users.

Which comes back to the point… then why have the trash? Just permanently delete files when the users presses delete?

The main point here is why would you throw anything away that you intend to keep, unless by accident.

It's a simple safeguard for if you accidentally trash something you shouldn't have.

 

[Gregg2]

What the people who reply "the trash isn't a buffer area" complete miss.... is that: Yes it is a buffer area!! If it wasn't, then what is the point in the trash file at all? If I press delete, then a file should just be deleted, no? Why make deleting files a two step action? Why? Because it IS a buffer.

That makes a lot of sense.

The trash in OS X makes perfect sense to me. It's just like a waste paper basket by your desk. If you ever put something there that shouldn't be you can reach in and retrieve it (i.e "Put Back"). Every so often you take the trash out (i.e "Empty Trash"). But you don't ever take out only selective bits of the trash, you take it all out.

That's true, but a physical to virtual comparison isn't the best analogy. Shoot! There have been many times that I've thrown a physical item in a waste basket and later thought I'd like to retrieve it, only to discover that it had been emptied into the larger trash can and had already been picked up by the sanitation crew. Since the virtual waste basket (Trash) lends itself to being a buffer (see above) it would be nice if there was an easy way to be selective about purging it.

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

That's true, but a physical to virtual comparison isn't the best analogy. Shoot! There have been many times that I've thrown a physical item in a waste basket and later thought I'd like to retrieve it, only to discover that it had been emptied into the larger trash can and had already been picked up by the sanitation crew.

This situation isn't at all relevant. No one comes by to empty your mac's trash. You're the only to shove it down the garbage chute. It's not a public trashcan in a park or one at work, it's the one under your desk at home that only you use.

 

[retty]

Limiting software to real world standards can be a good thing. It avoids a lot of confusion for the average user. The trash in OS X looks and behaves just the real thing. It's designed to be used in exactly the same way. This is what makes it perfectly adequate for the majority of users.

What makes even more sense for users is having an automated system that looks after the trash. Gmail has got this nailed.

Or we could limit the system to real world standards more! We should have folders that can only fit so many files before they become 'too full'!

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

What makes even more sense for users is having an automated system that looks after the trash. Gmail has got this nailed.

I'm not familiar with this. How does it work?

Or we could limit the system to real world standards more! We should have folders that can only fit so many files before they become 'too full'!

Are you trying to sound clever? Care to point out where I said that all software should be based on real world limitations?

 

[retty]

I'm not familiar with this. How does it work?

Emails that are trashed are simply deleted after 30 days. Very easy solution. I don't want to archive all my emails that there's a faint possibly I may need again. I'm given a 30 day window that if I change my mind, I can. Trashed items still appear in searches (marked that they are trahsed)

Are you trying to sound clever? Care to point out where I said that all software should be based on real world limitations?

Not at all, I was responding to your earlier comment:
"Limiting software to real world standards can be a good thing. It avoids a lot of confusion for the average user. The trash in OS X looks and behaves just the real thing." In the real-world, a folder can only hold so much – some users ma find it confusing that a folder on the computer can hold thousands of files and sub-folders. The folder doesn't work at all like the real thing and by your own thinking would therefore be confusing to the average user.

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

You seem to be missing some key words.

can be a good thing

Not is a good thing.

 

[retty]

You seem to be missing some key words.

Not is a good thing.

Hahaha you don't have a clue what you think! Your first point was: the trash under my desk works like x, y, z so there fore the trash on my computer should.... now you're saying it doesn't have to do the same!?!?

I'm going to leave this because you don't know you switch around what you're saying!

 

[Gregg2]

There have been many times that I've thrown a physical item in a waste basket and later thought I'd like to retrieve it, only to discover that it had been emptied into the larger trash can and had already been picked up by the sanitation crew. Since the virtual waste basket (Trash) lends itself to being a buffer (see above) it would be nice if there was an easy way to be selective about purging it.

This situation isn't at all relevant. No one comes by to empty your mac's trash. You're the only to shove it down the garbage chute. It's not a public trashcan in a park or one at work, it's the one under your desk at home that only you use.

that's the analogy
I decided to empty it into the larger trash can. I have a chance to retrieve it if it's still there. I don't if it's not.

 

[retty]

that's the analogy
I decided to empty it into the larger trash can. I have a chance to retrieve it if it's still there. I don't if it's not.

Jolly Jimmy seems to struggle greatly with analogies... the discussion is better left because it goes around in circles.

The fact is is that current system doesn't work for all users –*particularly for a user like myself who deals with 100s of files a day. I have to have some process where items i'm not sure if will or will not be useful over the upcoming days can be left and if I don't end up requiring can be automatically removed. THAT would be useful, a trash can that is either full or emptied completely is basic functionality that should have been improved upon a long long time ago.

 

[MisterMe]

Limiting software to real world standards can be a good thing. It avoids a lot of confusion for the average user. The trash in OS X looks and behaves just the real thing. It's designed to be used in exactly the same way. This is what makes it perfectly adequate for the majority of users.

....

What you are talking about is called metaphor. The graphical elements of a GUI approximate the behavior of the real world object that they were based on. It makes absolutely no sense for them to behave another way. The choice of graphical elements is infinitely variable in infinite combinations. Why choose one graphical element when a different choice will better approximate the element's function?

As I said in an earlier post, the Windows Recycle Bin's behavior is a workaround for bad design choices of the Windows GUI. The Mac does not suffer from Microsoft's bad design choices. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to compound Microsoft's mistakes by adopting Microsoft's workaround in MacOS X.

 

[itickings]

The fact is is that current system doesn't work for all users –*particularly for a user like myself who deals with 100s of files a day. I have to have some process where items i'm not sure if will or will not be useful over the upcoming days can be left and if I don't end up requiring can be automatically removed. THAT would be useful, a trash can that is either full or emptied completely is basic functionality that should have been improved upon a long long time ago.

Seriously, your particular need is so specific that covering it would mess things up for most normal users. If you think you might need something later, don't put it in the trash. Or get Hazel for some trash assistance...

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

What you are talking about is called metaphor.

Yeah thanks. I was spelling it out for those who have trouble with analogies and reading comprehension.

 

[Jolly Jimmy]

Hahaha you don't have a clue what you think! Your first point was: the trash under my desk works like x, y, z so there fore the trash on my computer should.... now you're saying it doesn't have to do the same!?!?

I'm going to leave this because you don't know you switch around what you're saying!

May I suggest some reading comprehension classes? Can be ≠ Always is.

 

[mysterytramp]

I think i'm a pretty average user, checking my trash right now… I have:
> Audio files removed from itunes (rather these were deleted straight away)
> ZIP archives (should be deleted right away)
> Previous versions of Photoshop files (very unlikely to use if don't open them within the next few days, don't want to file away because that would mean I need to actively administrate my work folders for old documents every week –*waste of time)
> Job specifications (written proposals for these, unlikely to need but might need to reference then over the next week. Again no point in filing)

An AppleScript or two and a folder action would be able to provide exactly what you want.

mt

 

[-aggie-]

An AppleScript or two and a folder action would be able to provide exactly what you want.

mt

I believe those methods are actually discussed in this thread, but some of the posters above (not you) just want to argue about how would anyone ever want to do this, since Windows provides this option.

 

[ICEBreaker]

The trash in OS X makes perfect sense to me. It's just like a waste paper basket by your desk. If you ever put something there that shouldn't be you can reach in and retrieve it (i.e "Put Back"). Every so often you take the trash out (i.e "Empty Trash"). But you don't ever take out only selective bits of the trash, you take it all out.

Can people STOP using analogies that do not make sense. I shall repeat this for the third time since new comers don't read old posts. The trash can in real life is NOT there in case you want to retrieve trash. It's there so that you do not have to go to the land fill every time you throw away something. Appled called it "Trash Can" to be cute but it's actually a BUFFER.

 

[ICEBreaker]

As I said in an earlier post, the Windows Recycle Bin's behavior is a workaround for bad design choices of the Windows GUI. The Mac does not suffer from Microsoft's bad design choices. There is absolutely no reason for Apple to compound Microsoft's mistakes by adopting Microsoft's workaround in MacOS X.

You are like a gold fish. You keep saying Microsoft has bad design choices. I ask you to list them. You do, but I find out you have never used Windows. So I tell you that in fact, Windows does not behave the way you think it does. You do not reply. A few months later, you again claim Microsoft has bad design choices.

This is our FOURTH conversation on this topic.

What are Microsoft's bad design choices? Please list them. You may copy and paste if you want. I'll copy and paste my previous posts. This will save us both some time.

 

[ICEBreaker]

Can people stop calling this a Microsoft vs Mac thing? Some Mac fanboys are so defensive if others ever dare suggest a feature which MS happened to use. In fact other OS (e.g. Solaris, OS/2) permits selective deletion of buffered items. That's because normal OS do not deliberately add programming to limit its user's ability to manage their own files by imposing a no-deletion right in Trash folder.

This reminds me of the iPhone. It is not possible to selectively delete call log items. Only the whole log can be deleted. This is frustrating and there is no reason for it. Funnily enough, selective deletion is permitted for SMS. Apple being inconsistent here?

 

[Wondersnite]

Can people stop calling this a Microsoft vs Mac thing? Some Mac fanboys are so defensive if others ever dare suggest a feature which MS happened to use. In fact other OS (e.g. Solaris, OS/2) permits selective deletion of buffered items. That's because normal OS do not deliberately add programming to limit its user's ability to manage their own files by imposing a no-deletion right in Trash folder.

This reminds me of the iPhone. It is not possible to selectively delete call log items. Only the whole log can be deleted. This is frustrating and there is no reason for it. Funnily enough, selective deletion is permitted for SMS. Apple being inconsistent here?

I agree, this is a very simple and useful feature to add to the OS. And as ICEBreaker said, please stop making this a Mac vs PC thing... Apple has the habit of being very stubborn. Sometimes this is the right decision to make: after all, they do design the OS so they should know how it should be. But this can also be very counter-productive.

To all the Apple fanboys that seem to be unable to see qualities in anything but Apple: may I point out that Apple has finally decided to allow window resizing from every edge in Mac OS Lion? You know, the way Windows has been doing it since forever...

 

[jacktabby]

Hello Everyone!

I have written an applescript called iTrash that you can put in your Finder toolbar... When you are in the trash and would like to selectively delete item(s) from the trash just hold Command on your keyboard and select the items. Then click on the the iTrash applescript and it will confirm the deletion of the items.

This method can also be used to selectively delete items off of the Trash of a USB drive.

Download iTrash (Use with caution): http://www.mediafire.com/?6kezqcoc552s9yd

Update Coming Soon. Feedback greatly appreciated!

 

[HenryH]

iTrash doesn't work for me, sorry.