Dell: $298 delivered.

[CanadaRAM]

My mistake. I didn't realise you had such low performance expectations for a new computer purchase in 2005. I personally think that the world's best OS should be backed up by decent hardware (at least a G5).

Nope, have to disagree with you there. My Mini is a dream for office work, it's an absolute pleasure to use with Firefox and the Office suite, and will be on my desk for at least 3 years.

You're making the same mistake in comparison as iGary. Whilst the Dell may be equally crap as a Mac Mini its only $298 to get it up and running. A Mac Mini is $499 without a monitor/keyboard/mouse. By the time it gets fully operational you've spent over twice as much as the Dell.

Clue into the Big Lie: IT's NOT $299. It's $398 shipped to get it "up and running". Plus US$25 for the freakin' USB cable or you can't use the "free" printer. Dell has run their shipping price scam forever.

 

[Bigheadache]

Clue into the Big Lie: IT's NOT $299. It's $398 shipped to get it "up and running". Plus US$25 for the freakin' USB cable or you can't use the "free" printer. Dell has run their shipping price scam forever.

And your point? Its still a lot less than a Mac Mini with keyboard and mouse and monitor.

 

[Bigheadache]

Nope, have to disagree with you there. My Mini is a dream for office work, it's an absolute pleasure to use with Firefox and the Office suite, and will be on my desk for at least 3 years.

Good for you. I have alot higher expectations for my hard earned.

 

[calyxman]

You know what? Who cares. I brought up the question of what the point of this thread was. The answer is obvious. So what else is there to accomplish? What other "bargains" can you deride?

 

[IJ Reilly]

And your point? Its still a lot less than a Mac Mini with keyboard and mouse and monitor.

Not really. Add another $100 for a combo drive and the price is the same. The only difference is the keyboard and mouse, a lousy 17" CRT -- $60, tops? And the Dell still has crummy integrated graphics, no firewire...

 

[Bigheadache]

Not really. Add another $100 for a combo drive and the price is the same. The only difference is the keyboard and mouse, a lousy 17" CRT -- $60, tops? And the Dell still has crummy integrated graphics, no firewire...

$60 tops???... yeah right. Even the crap 17inch CRTs on newegg are close to $100 before shipping. Any other prices you want to make up?

 

[840quadra]

$60 tops???... yeah right. Even the crap 17inch CRTs on newegg are close to $100 before shipping. Any other prices you want to make up?

$60 is a bit low, but I was able to do a quick Froogle search and find many NEW monitors under $100 shipped. Newegg is nice, but it isn't the end all of online computer hardware purchases.

I think this kind of deal is great, I am pushing a Mini for my friends kids computer, but if they didn't have the other parts they need, I may have pushed this Dell!

 

[Passante]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=D24L1&s=dhs

Only 256 meg ram and no floppy?? That's not a pc its junk

 

[iGary]

What's the point, he asks?

Dell uses bait and switch tactics.

For shame.

 

[ReanimationLP]

And as long as it has a G4 processor its still a POS.

You're just begging for a beating arent you.

 

[iGary]

You're just begging for a beating arent you.

He is. My 1.25 G4 is only 10 bench points behind my iMac G5 and actually handles a lot of PS tasks better.

 

[ewinemiller]

The Celeron is a Pentium II, folks. Talk about ancient technology.

Umm, no. The original Celeron 7 years ago was a Pentium II based chip. The new one is based on the P4, with a slower bus and less L2 cache. That Dell machine is quite usable.

BTW, for home use, you can get free antivirus so that's not really an extra cost. Check out http://free.grisoft.com.

 

[iGary]

Umm, no. The original Celeron 7 years ago was a Pentium II based chip. The new one is based on the P4, with a slower bus and less L2 cache. That Dell machine is quite usable.

BTW, for home use, you can get free antivirus so that's not really an extra cost. Check out http://free.grisoft.com.

Never said it wasn't usable, but if you want to do business with a company the likes of a used car dealer, cool.

 

[ewinemiller]

Never said it wasn't usable, but if you want to do business with a company the likes of a used car dealer, cool.

Never really found them to be used car dealeresque. Sitting next to my powermac and ibook are 3 dells. I've had about a half dozen dells, all have been good deals, built well, and when I needed support, they were quite helpful. I'd consider them in the same space for quality and support as Apple. Where's the used car dealer in that?

Do you consider them a used car dealer because they let you buy a striped down machine and let you pick the options you want, because they charge shipping?

You don't have to buy the USB cable if you already have one, or you can pick up one up some place cheaper. It's not a bait and switch, it's choice. It doesn't come with virus, but you can get a free one from AVG that has been rated some place better than Norton or McAfee. The place I noticed this deal at, suggested buying a pair of them so that you don't pay shipping! Go in with a friend and you've got your $298 machine.

Slap Open Office on there, free, AVG virus, free, XP's firewall, included. Memory is cheap if you don't buy it from Dell, same thing as Apple. Buy a $50 dual layer 16x DVD burner and it will come with Nero which is quite nice for burning DVDs and CDs. Use the built in MS Movie editor, not as nice as iMovie, but sufficient. Grab iTunes from Apple. You're all set.

Yes it's not as pretty and compact as the mini and won't be a good game machine, but those are not everyone's top buying priority. This is a great deal for someone who just needs a basic computer. My mother went with a similar deal a few months back, it works great for them.

 

[ewinemiller]

Come to think if it, I wish Apple's pricing stucture was more like Dells. I'd like to pick up a dual 2.7 with no iApps, no burner, minimum memory, and small harddrive.

I need it for is 3D modeling and rendering, the occasional compile. I want fast CPU, but don't need big harddrive, overpriced bundled memory, etc. I'd like to pick a different video card and my only choices are crappy and the best, but really expensive. I can get the mac 9800 pro from buy.com for $220, but I have to throw away or sell a 256 meg card from the 2.7. I'd love to be able to pick a cheaper 64meg 5200 as an option so that I'm not throwing away as much.

 

[apple2991]

Good for you. I have alot higher expectations for my hard earned.

Great. I'm really happy to hear about your personal needs. Now let's look at the needs of the consumers who are much more likely to buy this $298 Dell or a Mac Mini. They don't even know what G5 and P4 mean. Do you really think that they are EVER going to use a computer for anything more than email, Office, and web-browsing? Hey, maybe they'll even use it to sync up their iPod.

For all of these tasks, a G4 is more than enough hardware. You needing to calculate floating points or render digital video doesn't make the G4 a POS.

 

[newwavedave]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=D24L1&s=dhs

I think what all you M$ zealots are missing is that to get all of the specs that you get with a Mac mini out of the box, the price is more for the Dell. I configured this system with firewire (most inexpensive video cams for the home use it to connect to the computer), this thing only comes with a 90 day guarantee. I then added the photo, music and file transfer software (all standard on a mini.) I added works and quickbooks (the mini comes with quicken and AppleWorks.) I even took the price of the Monitor off. I had to add a combo drive and to compare correctly I added a keyboard and mouse and printer cable (mini comes with free printer upgrade) to the price of the Mac mini so that the prices were correct. The price of the Dell, $639.40 and the cost of the mini, $557.00.

Of course there is no reason why some people need everything in the mini. But in order to come up to an equal value, especially for someone who is looking to take a computer home and have it up and running in seconds, with all the features above. The mini is the clear winner. There is no arguing that. All of that free software you are talking about takes time to download. With the Mac mini, it comes out of the box with it all and is ready to go. You just need to find a monitor for it...

 

[newwavedave]

Come to think if it, I wish Apple's pricing stucture was more like Dells. I'd like to pick up a dual 2.7 with no iApps, no burner, minimum memory, and small harddrive.

I need it for is 3D modeling and rendering, the occasional compile. I want fast CPU, but don't need big harddrive, overpriced bundled memory, etc. I'd like to pick a different video card and my only choices are crappy and the best, but really expensive. I can get the mac 9800 pro from buy.com for $220, but I have to throw away or sell a 256 meg card from the 2.7. I'd love to be able to pick a cheaper 64meg 5200 as an option so that I'm not throwing away as much.

I have to agree with you on that, I wish apple aloud you to downgrade a lot more. Although, after dealing with all of the crap that you have to go through to order a computer on the Dell sight. I hope that Apple NEVER gets like that.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I think what all you M$ zealots are missing is that to get all of the specs that you get with a Mac mini out of the box, the price is more for the Dell. I configured this system with firewire (most inexpensive video cams for the home use it to connect to the computer), this thing only comes with a 90 day guarantee. I then added the photo, music and file transfer software (all standard on a mini.) I added works and quickbooks (the mini comes with quicken and AppleWorks.) I even took the price of the Monitor off. I had to add a combo drive and to compare correctly I added a keyboard and mouse and printer cable (mini comes with free printer upgrade) to the price of the Mac mini so that the prices were correct. The price of the Dell, $639.40 and the cost of the mini, $557.00.

... and the mini still has the superior graphics subsystem. Of course you could add a PCI graphics card to the Dell (after-market, Dell doesn't offer a BTO option), but that would push the cost closer to $700.00.

The main complaint against Apple here seems to be that they don't offer a stripped to the bare bones Mac that needs to be upgraded just to be fully functional. And before anyone responds with the argument that the $299 Dell is fully functional, I'd ask what they're going to use for backing up, lacking a CD-RW or even a floppy drive.

 

[_pb_boi]

My mistake. I didn't realise you had such low performance expectations for a new computer purchase in 2005. I personally think that the world's best OS should be backed up by decent hardware (at least a G5).

Classic elitism at its most evident. At least a G5? Now let's see, the previous gen iMac had a G5 1.6 variant, while the latest Powerbooks hit G4 1.67 - widely accepted as offering *very* similar performance. Yet the new Powerbook won't be good enough for ya, then?

Interesting.

andy.

 

[ewinemiller]

... and the mini still has the superior graphics subsystem. Of course you could add a PCI graphics card to the Dell (after-market, Dell doesn't offer a BTO option), but that would push the cost closer to $700.00.

The main complaint against Apple here seems to be that they don't offer a stripped to the bare bones Mac that needs to be upgraded just to be fully functional. And before anyone responds with the argument that the $299 Dell is fully functional, I'd ask what they're going to use for backing up, lacking a CD-RW or even a floppy drive.

I think your assumption that everyone cares about backing up is wrong. It may not be the smartest thing to do, but most folks I've met don't back up. Back up is what they do when they copy all the stuff from their old machine to their new. You could use this machine in a business or as a second machine without any need to back up, everything kept on a fileshare.

Granted the onboard video is crap, but it's good enough to play the minesweeper, blackjack and golf games this machine's target market wants to play.

The stripped down product fits a need and is fully functional for that market, it's not supposed to be the same machine as the mini, though you can bring it up to that for a reasonable investment. They just keep getting compared because they are about the cheapest you can get from each vendor.

If I wanted a new machine for my Grandmother or Mom, I'd recommend this machine. Grandma doesn't need anything else, mom can move her burner from her existing machine and just did when a similar deal came up a few months back. To my co-worker who spends a lot of time burning DVDs and editing home movies I recommended a mini when he asked about getting a new computer. Each has it's place.

 

[xli_ne]

Use the built in MS Movie editor, not as nice as iMovie, but sufficient.

Not as nice as imovie is putting it nicely. That program is so basic its not even funny.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I think your assumption that everyone cares about backing up is wrong. It may not be the smartest thing to do, but most folks I've met don't back up. Back up is what they do when they copy all the stuff from their old machine to their new. You could use this machine in a business or as a second machine without any need to back up, everything kept on a fileshare.

Granted the onboard video is crap, but it's good enough to play the minesweeper, blackjack and golf games this machine's target market wants to play.

The stripped down product fits a need and is fully functional for that market, it's not supposed to be the same machine as the mini, though you can bring it up to that for a reasonable investment. They just keep getting compared because they are about the cheapest you can get from each vendor.

If I wanted a new machine for my Grandmother or Mom, I'd recommend this machine. Grandma doesn't need anything else, mom can move her burner from her existing machine and just did when a similar deal came up a few months back. To my co-worker who spends a lot of time burning DVDs and editing home movies I recommended a mini when he asked about getting a new computer. Each has it's place.

I'm not making any assumption, just pointing out that the Dell can't be backed up. It's about as bare-bones as a new computer can be and still be of any value. I think most people will recognize fairly quickly (I'd hope before their PC is hosed by a virus) that buying a computer that can't be backed up isn't a very wise choice. Even Grandma is going to figure that out, and Grandma is going to have a tough time negotiating the after-market for a CD-RW and installing it. So the idea that this rock-bottom PC is perfect for Grandma is the argument that eats itself.

 

[Chappers]

And half the fight for Dell is getting customers through the door (or onto their web page).

$298 PC not enough for you - well what about this one then.

 

[ewinemiller]

I'm not making any assumption, just pointing out that the Dell can't be backed up. It's about as bare-bones as a new computer can be and still be of any value. I think most people will recognize fairly quickly (I'd hope before their PC is hosed by a virus) that buying a computer that can't be backed up isn't a very wise choice. Even Grandma is going to figure that out, and Grandma is going to have a tough time negotiating the after-market for a CD-RW and installing it. So the idea that this rock-bottom PC is perfect for Grandma is the argument that eats itself.

Ah, but it is the perfect machine for her, Grandma falls squarely in that population who doesn't bother backing up even if she did have the means so why pay extra.

You're right that Granny isn't going to have the skills to add a aftermarket part, but really she's going to need someone to handhold her though getting the machine configured for her whether she buys this or a Mac.

It just occured to me, I'm typing this on an old IBM that doesn't have a working optical drive (it was just a plain CD-ROM when it did work) and hasn't for about 2 years. Everything is saved to source control and installed from the network, it's not an issue. It's got a slower P4 and more RAM, very little difference CPU performance-wise between it and the Dell in question. I did add spare PCI video card, but just to run a second monitor not because of any shortcomings of the onboard video.

Also the idea that every PC gets hosed by some virus is just not the reality these days. All you need to do is run a virus scanner (free), firewall (included), and let your OS updates auto-install (the default I think for XP sp2). Most ISPs do server side scanning these days so a reasonably wary user could probably even get away with no virus protection. I haven't seen a virus actually hit my mailbox in probably two years.