Dell DJ and Dell Music Store Details

[Jerry Spoon]

"There is little original here."

That holds true with Dell putting out their borrowed concepts and it holds true with Apple not getting off of there rears and really taking hold of a market like they could and should.

 

[Mr. G4]

Did you remember Apple hired only one programmer to do the job

Originally posted by mymemory
Ok, why is it taken so long for Apple to come out with a shi** version of iTunes for PC???

People are coping the ideas and have time even to produce the software.

Damn, with the slow ditribution of the G5 and the iTunes software I gues some people are under too much pot at Apple.

If Apple has the crappy market share they actually have is because they want to.

 

[QuiteSure]

I think Apple's timing is OK and this will work out great. I am willing to bet that the Musicmatch and Dell stores will be far inferior to iTMS; when iTMS for Windows makes its appearance, the music buying audience will become extremely excited, and Apple will prevail, no longer shunted in its world of perceived overpriced "niche" minority.

At that point, the Windows world will have their first Apple experience, which will far surpass the other experiences available. As witness to this experience, their first actual, first-hand view of Apple products and superior user experience, this vast unwashed mass of Windows users will begin to consider whether, just as the iTMS is more pleasurable to use than its Windows-based competition, the Apple computer experience is similarly superior to the Windows user experience.

Then market share will increase dramatically.

Just wait. It WILL happen.

 

[Awimoway]

Nice to see Apple trash-talking Dell. Go get 'em.

 

[the_dalex]

but where's the PDA and/or tablet and other consumer electronics products Apple should be in in order to compete with Sony, Dell and Gateway ?

I think Apple is very smart to stay out of these markets at this point. PDA and Tablets are going to continue to be niche products for a while, and the necessary technology for a full-featured, slim, light tablet just isn't available yet. PDA sales have dropped tremendously over the past two years, and with tablets you have to give up a lot and pay a ton.

 

[Nutzoids]

Over the years Apple has gone up and down...Steve has been fired and re-hired...I will leave my trust with the experts. I know they have a plan...we just don't know it...WHERE IS THE TRUST?


I give it just a few short years until Apple Takes over the market share...Well at least hits it hard...and makes the PC world rock something feirce! We are at the for-front of a revolution!

 

[yoda13]

This is actually quite flattering to Apple. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Most new advances in the realm of personal computers and personal computing devices can be traced back to ideas or products that have originated with Apple. This is no different. I just hope that Apple hurries up and gets the windows version of the iTMS out soon. There is a golden opportunity here and I hope that they don't miss it

 

[LimeLite]

Originally posted by NicoMan
But anyway, it is all a question of trust between Apple's DRM rights management and the Big 5.

Apple's digital rights management rights management?

I'll be right back, gotta go use the ATM machine.

 

[j33pd0g]

I don't think Gates will allow a windows version of iTunes. It'll be out for a half a day and then mysteriously it'll be pulled at the request of Microsoft. Back on topic: The dell DJ store will only be for DJ's, right? And it'll bite.

 

[howard]

keep in mind apple has had there music service up and running for months now with great success...its been hailed as very successful...all these new comers are the competitors nor in a way...even though its on a different platform.

apple has had all this time to iron out all the bugs int he system, and also add thousands of tunes to there service...they have the 1up and should be doing pretty well if they can keep the drm unrestrictive for the pc world and if they can get lots and lots of tunes on there...

thats really what it will come down to in the end....i'll use the service where i can search for some thing and find it...no matter what it is..as long as its been released it will be there. thats really how it is with kazaa, now they just make it legit.

on another note...it should be a little cheaper per song...thats just my opinion..and none of that have to buy a full album or only partial albums...

 

[Tom800]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I don't understand your comment about poor sound from the iPod. AFAIK the iPod is the only MP3 player that's been endoursed<sp?> by various home theater sites/mags as being good enough to use as a home theater component. And I'm sure that w/the introduction of the dock and it's line-out that that has only improved things for the iPod in regards to home theater.


Lethal

Check the tech specs for each - the Creative has a much better amp inside - 98db. I've heard both extensively, and the iPod sounds tinny and 'boxed' compared with the power and lifelike sound of the Creative.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by fred
I must say there are probably other issues (acceptable Windows licensing terms -- notably DRM issues --from the Big 5 record labels) , but aside from that I must say I am disappointed in Apple's PACE of innovation. When they do deliver they deliver far above average products.... but where's the PDA and/or tablet and other consumer electronics products Apple should be in in order to compete with Sony, Dell and Gateway ?

Apple is far too focused to do that. They don't want to wildly go out into every market at once. Right now they're focusing on music.

Wildly going out into every market at once almost killed Apple.

Originally posted by j33pd0g
I don't think Gates will allow a windows version of iTunes. It'll be out for a half a day and then mysteriously it'll be pulled at the request of Microsoft. Back on topic: The dell DJ store will only be for DJ's, right? And it'll bite.

Why would Apple do what Microsoft requests?

 

[Steven1621]

Re: Dell DJ and Dell Music Store Details

CNet's article comments on the industry feeling that an integrated jukebox/store application is the way to go...

hmmm....i wonder who thought of that first...

 

[SeaFox]

Re: Dell DJ and Dell Music Store Details

Originally posted by Macrumors
CNet provides some rumored details to the upcoming service from Dell.

According to their sources, MusicMatch will be launching their online music service next week, and will be providing a stand-alone Dell branded version of the service.

Ironically, MusicMatch currently provides the PC jukebox software bundled with the PC version of the Apple iPod.

There's nothing ironic about it. MusicMatch knows PC users want access to the iTMS, especially Windows iPod owners. They have the outlet to connect to the iPod. Apple's taking its time with Wintel iTunes... Hey! let's do ourselves before they can!

 

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac

Posted by j33pd0g:
I don't think Gates will allow a windows version of iTunes. It'll be out for a half a day and then mysteriously it'll be pulled at the request of Microsoft. Back on topic: The dell DJ store will only be for DJ's, right? And it'll bite.

Why would Apple do what Microsoft requests?

Nah, Microsoft wont request it. They'll just release one of thier weekly "patches" and it will stop working. They can keep it up as long as Apple doesn't sue them. No one will blink twice at the fact Microsoft is releasing a new patch everytime Apple fixes iTunes for Windows so it works again, they're used to getting an update every few days from M$ because of their well-known sloppy coding.

Even when Apple sues they can keep it going while the 3 year trial runs, all the while the competitors can try and retry their own music stores.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Wow. THAT'S why the Windows iPod doesn't work either?



Why would Microsoft even bother to try blocking the Windows iTMS? What gain is there for them?

 

[tychay]

iPod vs. Creative.

Originally posted by Tom800
Check the tech specs for each - the Creative has a much better amp inside - 98db. I've heard both extensively, and the iPod sounds tinny and 'boxed' compared with the power and lifelike sound of the Creative.

Don't take this as an insult:

1. Tech specs have little to do with sound quality.
2. Apple's tech specs don't list their dB, however they recently had to release a patch for European iPods because France has a restriction of 100dB. Therefore one can easily assume that the iPod is over 100dB.
3. Not to sure what sound volume has to do with sound quality.
4. "tinny and boxed" is probably more likely due to an improper testing environment, improper testing parameters (comparing to each other instead of a reference), or possible artificial bass boost in the Creative.
5. If the last is the case, this can easily be adjusted since iTunes synchronizes the equalizer settings to the iPod. In other words you can shape the sound on a per song basis. Note that doing this on the iPod itself limits you to one of 20 presets. This is classic Apple, but I actually consider this a plus.
6. Apple uses the well-regarded Wolfson codec which has the highest sound quality of any portable codec. Of course if you are playing back an AIFF/WAV then Wolfson's restrictions will introduce (inaudible) changes in the sound.
7. The Apple earbuds are the only decent quality bundled headphones of any player on the market.

Now in your defense, there are a number of people who agree with you but these people still highly recommend the iPod.

Some other replies:

Re: Apple's delay in iTunes for Windows. Did anybody read the article? Dell was able to shortcut the time to market by using an existing MP3 player (Creative) and existing software (MusicMatch). So far, the only company to successfully develop in less time was the disastrous BuyMusic.com which has neither a software or hardware component (as a web developer, I'd say they don't have much of an internet component either).

BTW, the fact that they are rebranding MusicMatch shows that unlike Apple, Dell is not leveraging their internet infrastructure to support digital downloads. Nor are they leveraging their supply chain advantages in producing the player. Nor is their any retail advantage beyond "bundling"--a big advantage for a big ticket item like a computer, but negligible for a consumer item like an MP3 player. While Dell's strategy is in keeping with their modus operandi, it is a much weaker offering than it appears because it doesn't play to their strengths and does nothing to overcome perceived Dell weaknesses: they have no previous experience in software; they do not develop any hardware but simply streamline hardware component assembly and bundling; they close themselves out to retailers through direct sale.

There is no evidence that Apple wasn't developing iTunes for Windows from earlier. The one job listing notwithstanding.

Many others have answered why there wasn't a simultaneous release of iTMS on both platforms.

 

[Tom800]

Re: iPod vs. Creative.

Originally posted by tychay
Don't take this as an insult:

1. Tech specs have little to do with sound quality.
2. Apple's tech specs don't list their dB, however they recently had to release a patch for European iPods because France has a restriction of 100dB. Therefore one can easily assume that the iPod is over 100dB.
3. Not to sure what sound volume has to do with sound quality.
4. "tinny and boxed" is probably more likely due to an improper testing environment, improper testing parameters (comparing to each other instead of a reference), or possible artificial bass boost in the Creative.
5. If the last is the case, this can easily be adjusted since iTunes synchronizes the equalizer settings to the iPod. In other words you can shape the sound on a per song basis. Note that doing this on the iPod itself limits you to one of 20 presets. This is classic Apple, but I actually consider this a plus.
6. Apple uses the well-regarded Wolfson codec which has the highest sound quality of any portable codec. Of course if you are playing back an AIFF/WAV then Wolfson's restrictions will introduce (inaudible) changes in the sound.
7. The Apple earbuds are the only decent quality bundled headphones of any player on the market.

Now in your defense, there are a number of people who agree with you but these people still highly recommend the iPod.

I don't work on the basis of tech specs either - I only mention the 98db as Creative plasters it all over their site as the key to their sound quality. I suppose that the louder sound is indicative of a more powreful amp. The iPod is nowhere near as loud other than on 'shrill' tracks, trust me. I don't know how that 100db thing that you mention came about.

My main point comes from listening to the same music, from the same source files (160 mp3), over months and months on each device, sometimes side by side in direct comparrison. The iPod sounds terrible compared to the Creative. Now its got AAC, which lends it a hand, but the sound still isn't there in terms of bass (there isn't much) or dynamic punch.

I'm using the Koss Porta-Pro headphones on each, and also occaisionally the Grado SR-80s, but these hardly run on the iPod at all. But this is not a matter of being an audiophile (which I'm not), it's just that the iPod is not as good soundwise! I don't know how else to describe this - listen to both and the iPod sounds tinny and boxed. All the energy is gone!

 

[thies]

the question is, will Apple manage to *finally* bring it's music store to countries outside the US or will the alternatives be here first and leave apple out in the cold?

 

[tsunake]

Re: Re: iPod vs. Creative.

Originally posted by Tom800

I'm using the Koss Porta-Pro headphones on each, and also occaisionally the Grado SR-80s, but these hardly run on the iPod at all. But this is not a matter of being an audiophile (which I'm not), it's just that the iPod is not as good soundwise! I don't know how else to describe this - listen to both and the iPod sounds tinny and boxed. All the energy is gone!

The iPod is designed as a portable music player. It would seem that Apple chose a lower power amplifier over higher quality sound. This was almost certainly a conscious design decision - being able to listen to your music all day is a lot better than it sounding awesome for an hour. If you don't like this design philosophy, buy a headphone amp, or use the Creative.

Creative chose to supply a larger battery at the cost of size and weight. Perhaps that's the better decision, but I know I'm more than satisfied with my iPod.

If anyone has signal to noise numbers for the current iPods or a mAh rating for the Creative Zen NX's battery, I'm interested.

 

[gerardrj]

Search around

Originally posted by fred
... but where's the PDA and/or tablet and other consumer electronics products Apple should be in in order to compete with Sony, Dell and Gateway ?

Steve has been interviewed several times on these topics:

PDA: Jobs does not see Apple making a PDA any time soon. There's nothing they can bring to the table that would make for a "stand out" product. Jobs generally comments that todays' PDAs are about as full featured and easy to use as they can be.

Tablet: Sure there are companies that have tablet PCs. Have you seen the sales numbers for the things? They're lousy. No-one is making money from them. Jobs made the comment that tablet PCs didn't seem to be in demand, so Apple wouldn't make one yet. The same with a hand-held video player, the market just isn't looking for such a device at the moment.

Since the Amelio days ended and Jobs returned, Apple has been all about producing a few high quality products that are easy to use, easy to live with and do what you want them to do. While Jobs was off the farm, Apple took Dell and GateWay and other's tack and made dozens of products in every shape and size. They were almost all crap, and it was super confusing to the average buyer. What was the difference between many of the Quadras and the Performas? Almost nothing except branding.
Jobs thinks (apparently correctly from the market share numbers) that his route is best. Make the entire widget: hardware, software, services. All under one controllable umbrella. Use that strength not to pound people in to submission with proprietary formats, but to provide a unique an enahanced experience while using open standards, trusting in the owner's sense of right/wrong, and putting out some of the best design ever to hit consumer electronics shelves.

 

[Tom800]

Re: Re: Re: iPod vs. Creative.

Originally posted by tsunake
The iPod is designed as a portable music player. It would seem that Apple chose a lower power amplifier over higher quality sound. This was almost certainly a conscious design decision - being able to listen to your music all day is a lot better than it sounding awesome for an hour. If you don't like this design philosophy, buy a headphone amp, or use the Creative.

Creative chose to supply a larger battery at the cost of size and weight. Perhaps that's the better decision, but I know I'm more than satisfied with my iPod.

If anyone has signal to noise numbers for the current iPods or a mAh rating for the Creative Zen NX's battery, I'm interested.

Well the Creative site talks about 14 hours of non-stop playback at normal use settings... And the battery is removal so you can swap them and get a much as you want.

The Zen NX is now the size of the older, larger iPods, so I don't think sound quality equates to size. I think Apple simply know they don't need to compete in this area as they can sell on style and ease of use.

 

[tychay]

Re: Re: iPod vs. Creative.

Originally posted by Tom800
I don't know how that 100db thing that you mention came about.

My main point comes from listening to the same music, from the same source files (160 mp3), over months and months on each device, sometimes side by side in direct comparrison. The iPod sounds terrible compared to the Creative. Now its got AAC, which lends it a hand, but the sound still isn't there in terms of bass (there isn't much) or dynamic punch.

I'm using the Koss Porta-Pro headphones on each, and also occaisionally the Grado SR-80s, but these hardly run on the iPod at all.

You're very dismissive of my post. The "100db thing" can be found with any net search in which they state that the max volume of the iPod is 104dB except in Europe where France's restriction limits it to 100dB (there are workaround on the net).

As I stated earlier, a side-by-side comparison is not correct. Instead both should be compared independently to a known reference sound (high quality stereo system + speakers with known flat response curves). Most audiophile setups do not qualify since they prefer a rounder/deeper sound than what an audio engineer wants. Otherwise I can simply adjust the sound with an equalizer (on a song-by-song basis in iTunes and then synced down to the iPod) or more volume (iTunes has volume adjustment that will raise the volume on some songs and lower the volume on others). This is what I recommend everyone who has a problem with their iPod's "tinny" sound do (select their entire library and use the equalizer to boost the base). The iPod is shooting for accurate reproduction of the sound and you need to use the equalizer to make it sound more what you might be used to.

One nice trick is to put two sources output the same music and the same sound and have a friend flip between them. I found it honestly very hard to tell the difference between the best LAME encoded MP3s and CDs (well, I'll be honest, I couldn't tell the difference--I guess I have poor comparitive abilities, despite the fact that I have a better than normal hearing sensitivity).

In general, any study has shown that the iPod and the best Creative players have similar sound output quality with perhaps the Creative being a little better at reference wave forms as the iPod introduces artifacts at -5dB according to the linked article--6 decades lower than the softest audible sound.

Ironically, I have the same two model headphones as you do. They're both great. I noticed that a lot of people now recommend the SR-80s over the previous favorite SR-60. Why? The SR-80s put out a louder distortion-free bass even though the capabilities of the two headphones are the same.

Take care,

terry

 

[rikers_mailbox]

iLife for Windows . . .

*long time lurker - first time poster*

"Apple has been working on its own version of iTunes for Windows, however, and is due by the year's end."


hmm . . . iTunes for Windows. How about iLife for Windows?? Imagine, a new Apple designed digicam (high quality .mpeg and .jpeg) nearly as inventive as the iPod was for music. . . then add in the whole line of iLife for Windows. . and *poof*, you have an Apple Media Suite for Windows.

That will mark the demise of Micro$oft. Mark my words, and give it 3 years.

-rik

 

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Wow. THAT'S why the Windows iPod doesn't work either?



Why would Microsoft even bother to try blocking the Windows iTMS? What gain is there for them?

1) Don't most of the other music stores use WMA files?
2) Apple would be using AAC and Quicktime would surely be a required component in iTunes for Windows.
3) Wasn't Microsoft working on their own music store?


Next you'll ask me why GM would want to keep Ford from making SUV's.