Denise Young Smith Takes on New Role as VP of Diversity and Inclusion at Apple

[nia820]

I'm not sure of every other black, or minorities, experience; but I have had zero issues with the color of my skin holding me back. Hard work and skill has propelled me along my way. I feel this world is getting too soft with inclusion being necessary in everything. Less Kumbaya and more competition.

If Apple wants to worry about diversity, how about they ad some more diversity to their port options on their Pro version of their laptops.

Well good for you. But unfortunately many minorities (especially black people) face discrimination due to their skin color when it comes to hiring and wages.

 

[Reach9]

reverse racism isn't real. it isn't a real thing. it doesn't exist. the act of pointing out racism doesn't effect racism; people committing racist acts effects racism. "allowing people to be a victim" is a Wrong Concept. accusations of racism don't ruin people's lives or careers. racism, however, does. "SJW" is a dogwhistle popularised in mainstream online culture by neo-nazi entryists and you are doing their work for them.

You're right there is no such thing as 'reverse racism', it's just racism. Reverse racism implies that racism is a one way street, which it isn't.
Actually accusations of racism, sexism, sexual harassment, rape etc. (whether false or not) do ruin people's lives.
You think the term SJW is popularized by neo-nazis? LOL, do you feel like you need to punch them too?

What planet are you on?
[doublepost=1495655743][/doublepost]

Could not agree more. People opposing this are speaking from fear and personal anxiety as opposed to a rational understanding of the reality of the situation.

They think it's about taking jobs away from white people just because they're white. Why on earth would a tech company with nearly a trillion dollars on the line risk everything by investing in an effort to hire unqualified people? It makes zero sense -- because it's not true.

The very thing people on here are freaking out about is the very thing Apple is trying to fix.

It's sad that an effort to make sure the right, most qualified person gets the job is bringing out so much anguish in people. It just goes to show there's still a long way to go.

The fact that you think that discriminating people based on their immutable traits for "diversity" and "inclusion" is the way the most qualified person gets the job, shows you still have a long way to go.

 

[trainwrecka]

According to Apple's latest worldwide diversity numbers, the company is 68 percent male and 32 percent female, while in the U.S., employees are 56 percent white, 19 percent Asian, 12 percent Hispanic, and nine percent black.

Are they hiring the best person for the job? If so, none of this should matter.

 

[Reach9]

Clearly you are young and inexperienced in management. Apple is not talking about rote jobs here like the server you present for your own arguments conveninence. A career at Apple or any tech company requires out-doing the previous model, not just the compeition, making the impossible possible and imagining a method or product no one previously considered. You never want clones on your team because they all take you in the same direction -- often down or to a dead end.

Yes, you need staff with different experiences, backgrounds, ways of approaching a problem. That's all piled up in diversity. Men think differently than women. Different cultures respond to problems in unique ways too. That is how innovation is done. It's the essense of the "think differently" campaign.

And to be clear hiring a diverse staff is not to hire an incompetent staff. Diveristy does not mean quotas. It means hiring the right minds to balance out a team so they can each challenge and compliment each others thinking.

I can have a staff exclusively of straight white men from around the country and they'll have different experiences and ways of approaching a problem. The idea that you think that diversity of thought is tied to an individual's immutable traits is a racist and sexist proposition.
You missed the essence of the "think differently" campaign.
[doublepost=1495656822][/doublepost]

Actually, what this phenomenon really is, and what many people miss, is collectivism or cultural marxism. These so-called "liberal" notions are seeded into society by media, education and politicians.

Philosophically, what this means is that the interest of the "collective" always override the interest of the individual. Now, what less intelligent people cannot grasp is that the interests of the "collective" (or state if we talk marxism) is defined by an extremely small elite. You know, the people that own the media, the educational institutions, the corrupt politicians, the corrupt justice system, and we'll throw in the Federal Reserve and the economical system as well and the military industrial komplex and.. and..

These cunning psychopathic imitations of human beings run peoples perception of reality. What the liberals and SJW's do is just regurgitating the crap they have been indoctrinated with since birth by the less than one % psychos.

So what SJW's and co. do is, while thinking they are progressive and loving and whatnot, serve the agenda of a very small criminal elite at the top of society.

Apple is starting to "come out" as a big time supporter for this criminal elite. Actually no wonder, MS, Google, FB and all big social media platforms are already there.

I don't blame you if you can't grasp this concept. My question is, how the **** are you able to put any trust what so ever into what this elite say and do? To actually believe that what you read, see and hear in media has any other purpose than pushing the agenda of the elite you really have to have a very high score on the gullibility-meter, somewhere around that of a 2-3 yr old infant.



Exactly. Collectivism is nothing more than a tool for control over less intelligent people.

As a side note: South Korea is very high on that list. North Korea is not on the list but I have no doubt the NK people are at least as intelligent in terms of IQ, which makes me doubt that they would do anything against the US since that would be automatic suicide. Intelligent people easily get that. Looks more like a Gulf of Tonkin 2.0 situation to me.

Cheers and much love to all. Yes, you SJW's too. May you be blessed by the red-pill one day.

In the mean time, go watch Matrix. You live in it.

Yup, a lot of postmodernism these days.

 

[Cineplex]

reverse racism isn't real. it isn't a real thing. it doesn't exist. the act of pointing out racism doesn't effect racism; people committing racist acts effects racism. "allowing people to be a victim" is a Wrong Concept. accusations of racism don't ruin people's lives or careers. racism, however, does. "SJW" is a dogwhistle popularised in mainstream online culture by neo-nazi entryists and you are doing their work for them.
[doublepost=1495634916][/doublepost]more than anything else, nobody – especially not people in charge of hiring at tech companies – is afraid of hiring white men. what planet are you on.

LOL! I'm glad Malaysia has chimed in on American racism! Don't talk to me about American problems like you live here and see them everyday. Malaysian and US culture are not the same.
[doublepost=1495657776][/doublepost]

So, to prevent being wrongfully accused of being racist, you seem to recommend being an actual racist, e.g., don't hire the black guy because once he's there, he might accuse you of something in the future. Wow. That's a telling perspective.

As for "allow[ing] them to be a victim," perhaps you should go through this thread and count up the number of folks who are ostensibly white and claiming they are or will be victims of reverse racism and racial quotas in hiring because of people like Ms. Smith having jobs like the one she has. Talk about a bunch of people claiming victimhood. If you actually look at Apple's diversity page, it's not about meeting hiring quotas by ignoring skills and talent in favor of just hiring people with browner complexions. It's about reflecting the demographics of the communities where they hire by working to break down barriers and attract people beyond those who might already have a leg up. It's about making sure that some employees aren't inexplicably paid less than others who are doing the same job. So forth and so on. It isn't about pushing the bellyaching "victims" here down, it's about raising others up and helping them gain access to opportunities they might not have had access to otherwise.

Just because someone else is finally getting a shot at the same things you have does not mean that you are losing anything. That is, unless you think the only way you could possibly get what you have is by actively limiting access for others. But then, if that's the case, who is really the victim here?

Oh, please. None of the black or other people I worked with needed your BS diversity crap. They got here because the worked just as hard as the rest of us because they are EQUAL. The 1950s is over. Stop painting these people as helpless losers that need "the white mans" help. Your thinking is so backwards. I have yet to see a real world example of why we need your reverse racism system.

 

[techwhiz]

You're right there is no such thing as 'reverse racism', it's just racism. Reverse racism implies that racism is a one way street, which it isn't.
Actually accusations of racism, sexism, sexual harassment, rape etc. (whether false or not) do ruin people's lives.
You think the term SJW is popularized by neo-nazis? LOL, do you feel like you need to punch them too?

What planet are you on?
[doublepost=1495655743][/doublepost]

The fact that you think that discriminating people based on their immutable traits for "diversity" and "inclusion" is the way the most qualified person gets the job, shows you still have a long way to go.

You make specious arguments in your post about diverse white men. The one thing they never experienced is racism.

At no point in this discussion did anyone say hire someone just because they are any color.

What was said is that this initiative is to make sure that people that are qualified don't get excluded because of their color.

I work in SV and it's not about white or black it's about hiring managers and interviewers skewing the pool based on the wanting to hire people that look like them, talk like them, etc. The manager and interviewers could be green for what it matters.

Diversity programs are to make sure qualified candidates don't get passed over because of bias. The elimination of bias does not mean the elimination of any group. The recruitment of diverse candidates does not mean, "no white guys".

People want to make it out that diversity programs give under represented minorities an advantage and somehow an unqualified person is going to get the job.

Try that with chip design..... Wow. People.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I can have a staff exclusively of straight white men from around the country and they'll have different experiences and ways of approaching a problem. The idea that you think that diversity of thought is tied to an individual's immutable traits is a racist and sexist proposition.
You missed the essence of the "think differently" campaign.

Sure bring out the name calling cards. Big credit limit on those? Go back to my original and follow up post. I didn't say a lick about a persons color as a sole qualification in explaining why diversity is a good thing. But yes, diversity of thought through experience is tied to a whole person's being. That includes skin color, religion/religious upbringing or lacktherof, gender, type of education, hobbies, etc.

OTOH racism is saying an entire race acts a certain way -- that skin color is the ONLY factor to one's humanity. Same with gender, ect. People are multi-faceted. So, sorry, you can't twist the concept of diversity as being racist, sexist, etc. Again, it's not a quota system check the lines as they are fulfilled. It's finding the best peopel for the job -- but also with very different experiences.

 

[techwhiz]

LOL! I'm glad Malaysia has chimed in on American racism! Don't talk to me about American problems like you live here and see them everyday. Malaysian and US culture are not the same.
[doublepost=1495657776][/doublepost]
Oh, please. None of the black or other people I worked with needed your BS diversity crap. They got here because the worked just as hard as the rest of us because they are EQUAL. The 1950s is over. Stop painting these people as helpless losers that need "the white mans" help. Your thinking is so backwards. I have yet to see a real world example of why we need your reverse racism system.

Excuse me you only need to look at the of SV companies to know they need help in diversity.
And please "reverse racism" does not exist.
There is no such thing.
For 100 years in America white men had an advantage codified and institutionalized. Trying to incorporate more people of color always ruffles the people who had the advantage.
It's called competing and for 100 years white people didn't have to. If everything is so equal, why do we need equal housing laws? Why do banks still redline black qualified applicants? I can go on but unless people admit that for 100 years white men had their finger on the scale and skewed everything, there is no honest discussion to be had.

We are less than 40 years from the ending of Apartheid in this country and at no point did those that were discriminated against get to pay less taxes for the inferior services they received.

The tone of this discussion by some exemplifies the reason why we need diversity programs.

 

[Cineplex]

Excuse me you only need to look at the of SV companies to know they need help in diversity.
And please "reverse racism" does not exist.
There is no such thing.
For 100 years in America white men had an advantage codified and institutionalized. Trying to incorporate more people of color always ruffles the people who had the advantage.
It's called competing and for 100 years white people didn't have to. If everything is so equal, why do we need equal housing laws? Why do banks still redline black qualified applicants? I can go on but unless people admit that for 100 years white men had their finger on the scale and skewed everything, there is no honest discussion to be had.

We are less than 40 years from the ending of Apartheid in this country and at no point did those that were discriminated against get to pay less taxes for the inferior services they received.

The tone of this discussion by some exemplifies the reason why we need diversity programs.

LOL! Okay buddy.

 

[ibookg409]

Historically we know that racism has negatively affected the lives of miniroties and given whites an unfair advantage. Now people are trying to remove that disadvantage and you're calling that racism. Incredible.

By definition anything that puts race ahead of qualifications is racist.

 

[BarracksSi]

If it were a quota system, there'd be a checkbox for one's race on a job application.

I've still never seen one. I don't think I've ever seen one until after I've gotten hired.

 

[techwhiz]

So... again... judging anyone based completely on race, is racism. My post started by stating that candidates should be judged by ability. When you have two identical candidates and you have a voice pushing to hire minorities for "inclusion and diversity" but you have no voice supporting the candidates that do not fulfill these race or gender qualifications, the equation will eventually always will lean to one side. The equation would be 1 (+1) > 1.

I'll say this:
1. Everybody raise their hand.
2. If you don't work in tech, put you hand down.
3. If.you don't work in SV put you hand down.

Now we have a subset of people that may have an experience similar to this.
SV is small.
I have been a hiring manager and of course on the other side of the interview table. I applied and thought I had a job at one of these companies.

The interview goes well, you get good feedback from HR and they decide to go with another candidate. You find out the other candidate is qualified, but not as qualified as you. But you also find out the candidate is the "fit" they were looking for, ie same language and ethnicity as a couple of the interviewers.

I'm not claiming racism. I'm claiming subtle bias and people may not even be aware of it because it is subtle. People like to be around like people. But if it happens enough you start to affect the business.

But the diversity programs are meant to help remove subtle biases and truly get the best candidate so the business doesn't suffer.

 

[You are the One]

You make specious arguments in your post about diverse white men. The one thing they never experienced is racism.

White men is the main and only target of the "liberal" zionist psychopath elite flavour of racism. They've already managed to destroy the women through "feminism" and the institution of the family has died with it.

They same Baal-worshiping gang that destroyed Russia, murdered the Tsar and installed Communism. Now they have done it with the US and the western world as well.

And here is the historical background and explanation to why they hate Russia so much today. Somehow Russia managed to survice communism as well as the complete looting of the their country by the same zio criminals after the fall of communism. This elite criminal gang is the cancer of humanity and the only thing that stands in the way of peace and prosperity for all people on earth.

 

[batchtaster]

When it comes to lack of diversity, you need to look at the root cause of it. For example, only 20% of computer engineering degrees go to women. This means 4 out of 5 people who pursue a computer science degree are men.

So it's no surprise that more men work at Apple than women.

So the answer is remove womens' choices. Force them into a STEM field even though they don't want to. Eliminate "soft" courses like "Gender Studies" and direct them to the STEM enrolment desk.
Despite some STEM areas like Biology already being female-dominated.
And nobody insists on diversity in construction, boiler making, sewer construction and maintenance and mining, which are 90+% male. But have a higher risk and health factors. (93% of workplace deaths are men.)
Nobody is whining that only 2% of preschool teachers are men (while child smotherings/drownings are almost without exception a female crime).

 

[darcyf]

Your assumption that the default state of the industry is that hiring managers in general only hire white people because they're white, and that they don't get the right person for the job is absolutely ridiculous.

This is not about trying to ensure the right person for the job gets the job, regardless of ethnicity. Quite the opposite actually, because they're actively stating that ethnicity plays a role in hiring.

You think that the industry is racist and sexist by default, and this is a fix. The reality is that it's just not true.

You're saying there isn't a history of racism in America that has affected hiring practices to this day? Is that what you're saying?
[doublepost=1495674696][/doublepost]

Fare enough.



Congrats on losing my entire point and focusing on only a small fraction of what "whites" have done.

It's not about "what a small fraction of 'whites' have done". It's about what's happened and continues to happen as a result.
[doublepost=1495674788][/doublepost]

You're right there is no such thing as 'reverse racism', it's just racism. Reverse racism implies that racism is a one way street, which it isn't.
Actually accusations of racism, sexism, sexual harassment, rape etc. (whether false or not) do ruin people's lives.
You think the term SJW is popularized by neo-nazis? LOL, do you feel like you need to punch them too?

What planet are you on?
[doublepost=1495655743][/doublepost]

The fact that you think that discriminating people based on their immutable traits for "diversity" and "inclusion" is the way the most qualified person gets the job, shows you still have a long way to go.

But I'm not saying that. Your fear and anxiety is clouding your judgement.
[doublepost=1495674921][/doublepost]

By definition anything that puts race ahead of qualifications is racist.

Yup. And no one is advocating for this. The whole point of this role is to ensure that this doesn't happen. How is that so hard to understand?

 

[BarracksSi]

White men is the main and only target of the "liberal" zionist...

You're treading into some very risky territory.

 

[slowpoke]

LOL! I'm glad Malaysia has chimed in on American racism! Don't talk to me about American problems like you live here and see them everyday. Malaysian and US culture are not the same.

i'm neither malaysian nor american, but i've spent more than half my life split between the american midwest and western europe. i am very familiar with how these dynamics function.
[doublepost=1495680819][/doublepost]

White men is the main and only target of the "liberal" zionist psychopath elite flavour of racism. They've already managed to destroy the women through "feminism" and the institution of the family has died with it.

They same Baal-worshiping gang that destroyed Russia, murdered the Tsar and installed Communism. Now they have done it with the US and the western world as well.

And here is the historical background and explanation to why they hate Russia so much today. Somehow Russia managed to survice communism as well as the complete looting of the their country by the same zio criminals after the fall of communism. This elite criminal gang is the cancer of humanity and the only thing that stands in the way of peace and prosperity for all people on earth.

completely unashamed antisemitism married to unironic mccarthyist paranoia in the year 2017, nice

ftr this kinda garbage is where the association between people who say "sjw" and Actual Literal Fascism comes from, guy who quoted me a page back or whatever

 

[BarracksSi]

I'm wondering what it takes for a thread to get locked down around here.

Never thought I'd see neo-Nazi propaganda on an Apple forum.

 

[Reach9]

Sure bring out the name calling cards. Big credit limit on those? Go back to my original and follow up post. I didn't say a lick about a persons color as a sole qualification in explaining why diversity is a good thing. But yes, diversity of thought through experience is tied to a whole person's being. That includes skin color, religion/religious upbringing or lacktherof, gender, type of education, hobbies, etc.

OTOH racism is saying an entire race acts a certain way -- that skin color is the ONLY factor to one's humanity. Same with gender, ect. People are multi-faceted. So, sorry, you can't twist the concept of diversity as being racist, sexist, etc. Again, it's not a quota system check the lines as they are fulfilled. It's finding the best peopel for the job -- but also with very different experiences.

Not calling you names, I said that about the idea itself.
Sorry, you're wrong. You're using immutable traits such as skin color and gender, akin to type of education and hobbies, to describe diversity of thought.

I'll give you an example. I'm a non-white person, and I've been added to a team of 3 white guys at work. You might say that the team is more diverse now, if you do, then you're implying that people of my race/ethnicity are homogenous in our thinking and that is different than how white people think, and so I'll bring in a new perspective (this is racist, and you defined racism as "saying an entire race acts a certain way"). I could think just like all the 3 white guys in my team, but the reality is we all think things differently regardless of our race and we work well together.

Yes I agree people are multifaceted, i'm a proponent of that. Btw racism is not just saying that 'skin color is the ONLY factor to one's humanity'.

Men think differently than women.

There are people who say that to imply that women are incapable of doing certain things, and those people are seen as sexist, I'm assuming you think those people are sexist right? You can't have it both ways. I know really talented women working in the tech space, there are fewer women because of the choices they make.

Different cultures respond to problems in unique ways too.

To an extent, you see, not everyone from that culture responds to problems in the same 'unique' way, read my example above.

If the purpose of the VP position is to increase the number of people who are identified by immutable traits, then it is discriminatory. No matter how you slice in.
So, sorry, you can't twist discrimination and the concept of diversity as being non-racist, non-sexist, etc.
[doublepost=1495693803][/doublepost]

I'm wondering what it takes for a thread to get locked down around here.

Never thought I'd see neo-Nazi propaganda on an Apple forum.

Not sure what you're talking about when you're saying neo-Nazi propaganda. Do you mind specifying?

Never thought I'd see people walking around with the Hammer and Sickle flag and combat free speech in America, either.
[doublepost=1495694839][/doublepost]

You're saying there isn't a history of racism in America that has affected hiring practices to this day? Is that what you're saying?
[doublepost=1495674788][/doublepost]
But I'm not saying that. Your fear and anxiety is clouding your judgement.
[doublepost=1495674921][/doublepost]
Yup. And no one is advocating for this. The whole point of this role is to ensure that this doesn't happen. How is that so hard to understand?

Was there a history of racism in America? Yes.
Are hiring practices in tech racist and sexist by default? No.

Please tell me how South Asian, Asian and Nigerian Americans earn more than white Americans on average. Did white Americans decide to give those races a free pass and just be racist towards black Americans?

Again, if the purpose of the VP position is to increase the number of people who are identified by immutable traits, then it is discriminatory. You don't solve perceived discrimination, by discriminating. How is that so hard to understand?

 

[slowpoke]

Not sure what you're talking about when you're saying neo-Nazi propaganda. Do you mind specifying?

it's on this page, dogg:

White men is the main and only target of the "liberal" zionist psychopath elite flavour of racism. They've already managed to destroy the women through "feminism" and the institution of the family has died with it.

They same Baal-worshiping gang that destroyed Russia, murdered the Tsar and installed Communism. Now they have done it with the US and the western world as well.

And here is the historical background and explanation to why they hate Russia so much today. Somehow Russia managed to survice communism as well as the complete looting of the their country by the same zio criminals after the fall of communism. This elite criminal gang is the cancer of humanity and the only thing that stands in the way of peace and prosperity for all people on earth.

Never thought I'd see people walking around with the Hammer and Sickle flag and combat free speech in America, either.

dO yOu MiNd SpEcIfYiNg????>??
[doublepost=1495701280][/doublepost]also, i really love that dude's assertion that russia – a nation that took less than 30 years to graduate from medieval agrarian feudalism to possessing nuclear weapons and the most extensive space program in history – was "destroyed" by the deposition of its royalty. i love that, and i think it's excellent.

 

[Cineplex]

This thread has gone to a very strang place! lol

 

[darcyf]

[QUOTE="Reach9, post: 24607166]Again, if the purpose of the VP position is to increase the number of people who are identified by immutable traits, then it is discriminatory. You don't solve perceived discrimination, by discriminating. How is that so hard to understand?[/QUOTE]
Yeah. If that were true, if the VP were there to blah blah blah, then you'd have a point.

But that's not what the VP is there for. You're just being paranoid and it's a problem.

 

[applezulu]

LOL! I'm glad Malaysia has chimed in on American racism! Don't talk to me about American problems like you live here and see them everyday. Malaysian and US culture are not the same.
[doublepost=1495657776][/doublepost]
Oh, please. None of the black or other people I worked with needed your BS diversity crap. They got here because the worked just as hard as the rest of us because they are EQUAL. The 1950s is over. Stop painting these people as helpless losers that need "the white mans" help. Your thinking is so backwards. I have yet to see a real world example of why we need your reverse racism system.

I'd say chances are pretty good that many of the black folks you refer to didn't work "just as hard as the rest of [you]". I'd say chances are good that many of them worked a lot harder than you did, just to get to the starting line. It's fantastic that you see them as your equal. That makes you one of the good ones. Now you just need to realize that in their daily experience throughout their lives they had frequent interactions with people who don't share that assumption. This happens on a routine, daily basis. When you don't live it and you don't take the time to listen to those who do, it's pretty easy to assume that that constant headwind isn't there.

I'd say most of those folks don't want your charity or your pity or anything like that, but perhaps a little more unspoken respect would be good. Perhaps a little recognition that, as has been clearly and repeatedly shown in this thread, a great many of their peers either think they don't deserve to be there or at best assume that they had all the same chances and opportunities as their caucasian counterparts in their path to wherever they are now. Yes, that level of respect would be a good start.

 

[T-R-S]

Apple still refuses to hire anyone over 50 as new hire, I know Apple have passed on qualified, experienced potential employees over 50 then they picked a a millennial with a masters degree then that millennial goes on stress leave after six months because they can't handle the pressure ha ha Ha! I this happened @ Apple because I know have close family member that works there the hiring manager was clearly biased against hiring the "older worker"

 

[Cineplex]

I'd say chances are pretty good that many of the black folks you refer to didn't work "just as hard as the rest of [you]". I'd say chances are good that many of them worked a lot harder than you did, just to get to the starting line. It's fantastic that you see them as your equal. That makes you one of the good ones. Now you just need to realize that in their daily experience throughout their lives they had frequent interactions with people who don't share that assumption. This happens on a routine, daily basis. When you don't live it and you don't take the time to listen to those who do, it's pretty easy to assume that that constant headwind isn't there.

I'd say most of those folks don't want your charity or your pity or anything like that, but perhaps a little more unspoken respect would be good. Perhaps a little recognition that, as has been clearly and repeatedly shown in this thread, a great many of their peers either think they don't deserve to be there or at best assume that they had all the same chances and opportunities as their caucasian counterparts in their path to wherever they are now. Yes, that level of respect would be a good start.

Maybe you are right. I cant accept the existence of this problem because I can't fathom excluding someone because of race. In fact, years ago I managed a cinema projection facility and had to hire a staff of 5 to run it. I hired 5 people and only one was white and it was a female. This was not a diversity initiative and it was long before anyone cared. These folks were the most qualified and had the best attitude. I spend about 5 years working with these folks and a total staff of about 60 people (where only about 4-5 were white) and those were the best years I spent anywhere. I can't see why anyone would pass on some who's Black, Hispanic, Asian, or whatever just based on that. I can understand someone not wanting to hire people on visas that are taking away local jobs....but for just race alone. It's something I will just never understand. If someone walks in my office for a job and they are qualified....I don't care if they are from the moon.