Denise Young Smith Takes on New Role as VP of Diversity and Inclusion at Apple

[slowpoke]

Did you guys ever stop to think the reason someone may not want to hire a non-white male for a job might be because they are afraid to? Think about it....everyone is a victim of something nowadays. All someone needs to do is insinuate the hint of racism or other discrimination and your legal budget goes up. All this reverse racism is not solving the problem, it's making it worse. I've experienced managers afraid to discipline or correct someone in fear of getting fired because they could be called a racist for doing their job. It is a real problem. The more this so called inequality is in the spot light and the more frivolous claims of prejudice continue....the longer the appearance of racism will continue. This mentality is just causing people to not live in harmony. This is a much more complicated issue than minorities not getting hired because they are minorities. We allow them to be a victim is situations that they just aren't. Remove the ability to make false claims of discrimination, and you will go a long way towards a solution. I don't think people are 1950s racists anymore.....I think they are afraid of lawsuits and terminations. It doesn't help that all the "educated" SJWs are the ones marginalizing them by thinking they are all helpless and dumb, going out of their ways to solve problems that don't exist. If you don't believe me just watch this http://youtu.be/vZCVHB68cuY

reverse racism isn't real. it isn't a real thing. it doesn't exist. the act of pointing out racism doesn't effect racism; people committing racist acts effects racism. "allowing people to be a victim" is a Wrong Concept. accusations of racism don't ruin people's lives or careers. racism, however, does. "SJW" is a dogwhistle popularised in mainstream online culture by neo-nazi entryists and you are doing their work for them.
[doublepost=1495634916][/doublepost]more than anything else, nobody – especially not people in charge of hiring at tech companies – is afraid of hiring white men. what planet are you on.

 

[darcyf]

Because she's maybe the most qualified.....

This type of attitude is not productive.
The assumption that just because someone is black that they aren't the most qualified.

Diversity is not about denying anyone a job but about making sure qualified candidates don't hear "no" because they look or speak differently than the interviewer.

A lot of people have the misinterpreted idea that diversity means giving unqualified people jobs. This is based on their own internalized issues. If you think a black person in tech is there because of some quota; you have no idea how tech works.

Could not agree more. People opposing this are speaking from fear and personal anxiety as opposed to a rational understanding of the reality of the situation.

They think it's about taking jobs away from white people just because they're white. Why on earth would a tech company with nearly a trillion dollars on the line risk everything by investing in an effort to hire unqualified people? It makes zero sense -- because it's not true.

The very thing people on here are freaking out about is the very thing Apple is trying to fix.

It's sad that an effort to make sure the right, most qualified person gets the job is bringing out so much anguish in people. It just goes to show there's still a long way to go.

 

[Dekema2]

I'm not sure of every other black, or minorities, experience; but I have had zero issues with the color of my skin holding me back. Hard work and skill has propelled me along my way. I feel this world is getting too soft with inclusion being necessary in everything. Less Kumbaya and more competition.

If Apple wants to worry about diversity, how about they ad some more diversity to their port options on their Pro version of their laptops.

No, I have an issue with this.

If you put me next to a carbon copy of someone white (same features, personality, characteristics and experience, which would be easy as I grew up in a virtually 100% white town), they would more likely than not be held to a higher standard than I am.

I'll never be able to accept your belief as a "good" thing that shouldn't be an issue. Because it is, and it's something that is part of my core values and has kept me on a path to success for many years now.
[doublepost=1495635212][/doublepost]

Good question. In a normal world you hire people best for the job, not people of certain skin colour. Qualification is the deciding factor, maybe character is too, but not the skin colour or **** like that.

We don't live in a normal world...
[doublepost=1495635662][/doublepost]

It feels odd to me that people placed in charge of diversity always seem to have to be blatant tokens of diversity themselves.

That's what o d

For people who question the need for this: Do you believe the lack of diversity in silicon valley (and other positions of power around the US) is simply a result of certain races simply not being as genetically smart or hard working as white people?

I won't address the implicit racism, but consider how broken the school systems black people are in. If you are unlucky and have to go through these, how will you become prepared for a CS, EE or CE degree? You don't.

Of course there are a few black people like myself who didn't grow up in these environments and are pursuing engineeeing degrees, while there are plenty of white people that can't even match that.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Why should any company be "seeking diversity"? What does that even mean? What the hell difference does it make? Have you ever sent back a waitress because she wasn't the right race or wasn't "diverse" enough?

Clearly you are young and inexperienced in management. Apple is not talking about rote jobs here like the server you present for your own arguments conveninence. A career at Apple or any tech company requires out-doing the previous model, not just the compeition, making the impossible possible and imagining a method or product no one previously considered. You never want clones on your team because they all take you in the same direction -- often down or to a dead end.

Yes, you need staff with different experiences, backgrounds, ways of approaching a problem. That's all piled up in diversity. Men think differently than women. Different cultures respond to problems in unique ways too. That is how innovation is done. It's the essense of the "think differently" campaign.

And to be clear hiring a diverse staff is not to hire an incompetent staff. Diveristy does not mean quotas. It means hiring the right minds to balance out a team so they can each challenge and compliment each others thinking.

 

[montanaco]

Easily the most sad and embarrassing thread I've seen on MR yet. Really hope a lot of you can learn to be more open minded not feel threatened by the idea of diversity in the work place.

 

[s2mikey]

Diveristy does not mean quotas. It means hiring the right minds to balance out a team so they can each challenge and compliment each others thinking.

Yeah but its hard not to believe there are quotas since, well, they are obviously hunting for a certain percentage of people from various groups and genders. Hiring the "right" minds may or may not include xxxx % of blacks or asians. If it does and its genuine then great. But if its forced in ANY way then its pure BS. For the most part its forced, sorry to say.

Easily the most sad and embarrassing thread I've seen on MR yet. Really hope a lot of you can learn to be more open minded not feel threatened by the idea of diversity in the work place.

Threatened by diversity? No, were threatened by the idea that there will be many poeple hired or NOT hired simply because they did or didnt fall into the forced percentage that the do-gooders are going for. Fixed that for ya.

 

[applezulu]

Did you guys ever stop to think the reason someone may not want to hire a non-white male for a job might be because they are afraid to? Think about it....everyone is a victim of something nowadays. All someone needs to do is insinuate the hint of racism or other discrimination and your legal budget goes up. All this reverse racism is not solving the problem, it's making it worse. I've experienced managers afraid to discipline or correct someone in fear of getting fired because they could be called a racist for doing their job. It is a real problem. The more this so called inequality is in the spot light and the more frivolous claims of prejudice continue....the longer the appearance of racism will continue. This mentality is just causing people to not live in harmony. This is a much more complicated issue than minorities not getting hired because they are minorities. We allow them to be a victim is situations that they just aren't. Remove the ability to make false claims of discrimination, and you will go a long way towards a solution. I don't think people are 1950s racists anymore.....I think they are afraid of lawsuits and terminations. It doesn't help that all the "educated" SJWs are the ones marginalizing them by thinking they are all helpless and dumb, going out of their ways to solve problems that don't exist. If you don't believe me just watch this http://youtu.be/vZCVHB68cuY

So, to prevent being wrongfully accused of being racist, you seem to recommend being an actual racist, e.g., don't hire the black guy because once he's there, he might accuse you of something in the future. Wow. That's a telling perspective.

As for "allow[ing] them to be a victim," perhaps you should go through this thread and count up the number of folks who are ostensibly white and claiming they are or will be victims of reverse racism and racial quotas in hiring because of people like Ms. Smith having jobs like the one she has. Talk about a bunch of people claiming victimhood. If you actually look at Apple's diversity page, it's not about meeting hiring quotas by ignoring skills and talent in favor of just hiring people with browner complexions. It's about reflecting the demographics of the communities where they hire by working to break down barriers and attract people beyond those who might already have a leg up. It's about making sure that some employees aren't inexplicably paid less than others who are doing the same job. So forth and so on. It isn't about pushing the bellyaching "victims" here down, it's about raising others up and helping them gain access to opportunities they might not have had access to otherwise.

Just because someone else is finally getting a shot at the same things you have does not mean that you are losing anything. That is, unless you think the only way you could possibly get what you have is by actively limiting access for others. But then, if that's the case, who is really the victim here?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Yeah but its hard not to believe there are quotas since, well, they are obviously hunting for a certain percentage of people from various groups and genders. Hiring the "right" minds may or may not include xxxx % of blacks or asians. If it does and its genuine then great. But if its forced in ANY way then its pure BS. For the most part its forced, sorry to say.

Well, if it's forced then it's at the business or orgs peril. I doubt Apple is that reckless to value something other than brains over anything else. But by that same token, sure, if you have 5 white guys on a 10 person team, yes, look hard for other people. Plenty of brilliant people in the world that are not white or male you know but can also offer a different perspective.

 

[montanaco]

Threatened by diversity? No, were threatened by the idea that there will be many poeple hired or NOT hired simply because they did or didnt fall into the forced percentage that the do-gooders are going for. Fixed that for ya.

Uh, yeah like other's have said, that's not how it works.

Besides, others in this thread have said "Diversity = Anti-White", which is such a blatant example of feeling threatened.

People seem to forget that a business is just that, a business. And to keep making money you want the best employees. No matter what they look like, or what faith they practice, etc. So when you have hiring managers glossing over those minorities to hire the usual crop of average employees, its good to have someone overseeing all of this and ensuring people are hired off of their talent, not their skin. I think most of you have it backwards, thinking that this means talent is ignored so that the token black person is hired. This isn't true.

 

[GoldenJoe]

Always nice to get a new head of anti-white hiring. Really makes us white software developers feel good. Something to think about next time I'm buying a computer.

 

[slowpoke]

Always nice to get a new head of anti-white hiring. Really makes us white software developers feel good. Something to think about next time I'm buying a computer.

"anti-white" is a code word for "i'm a big racist"

 

[BarracksSi]

Looks like the quickest way to draw the white nationalists out of the sewer is to tell them that a Black woman is in charge.

 

[slowpoke]

kinda wild how if you look back through this thread the vast majority of posters crappin their breeches about A Black??? A black FEMALE Black??????? getting hired at apple are people who registered in the past 2-3 years, tops. that's totally wild, imo
[doublepost=1495639898][/doublepost]wait why am i even posting on this accursed site

 

[mikecorp]

stupid, keep it internal and do not bother world. Mind you last time i was in New York I bought an ipad from a person with handicapped legs. It was pretty cool people with disabilities have a job. Stupid was it took him 45 minutes to come back and I'm not kidding.

 

[BarracksSi]

kinda wild how if you look back through this thread the vast majority of posters crappin their breeches about A Black??? A black FEMALE Black??????? getting hired at apple are people who registered in the past 2-3 years, tops. that's totally wild, imo

I was expecting them to have registered in the past 2-3 days, complete with egg avatars like Twitter used to have.

 

[You are the One]

It's called social justice my friend.

Actually, what this phenomenon really is, and what many people miss, is collectivism or cultural marxism. These so-called "liberal" notions are seeded into society by media, education and politicians.

Philosophically, what this means is that the interest of the "collective" always override the interest of the individual. Now, what less intelligent people cannot grasp is that the interests of the "collective" (or state if we talk marxism) is defined by an extremely small elite. You know, the people that own the media, the educational institutions, the corrupt politicians, the corrupt justice system, and we'll throw in the Federal Reserve and the economical system as well and the military industrial komplex and.. and..

These cunning psychopathic imitations of human beings run peoples perception of reality. What the liberals and SJW's do is just regurgitating the crap they have been indoctrinated with since birth by the less than one % psychos.

So what SJW's and co. do is, while thinking they are progressive and loving and whatnot, serve the agenda of a very small criminal elite at the top of society.

Apple is starting to "come out" as a big time supporter for this criminal elite. Actually no wonder, MS, Google, FB and all big social media platforms are already there.

I don't blame you if you can't grasp this concept. My question is, how the **** are you able to put any trust what so ever into what this elite say and do? To actually believe that what you read, see and hear in media has any other purpose than pushing the agenda of the elite you really have to have a very high score on the gullibility-meter, somewhere around that of a 2-3 yr old infant.

There is a very basic issue that nobody seems to want to address <https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country>

The whole liberal/SJW ideology is based on "we are all equal". Which is a lie.

Exactly. Collectivism is nothing more than a tool for control over less intelligent people.

As a side note: South Korea is very high on that list. North Korea is not on the list but I have no doubt the NK people are at least as intelligent in terms of IQ, which makes me doubt that they would do anything against the US since that would be automatic suicide. Intelligent people easily get that. Looks more like a Gulf of Tonkin 2.0 situation to me.

Cheers and much love to all. Yes, you SJW's too. May you be blessed by the red-pill one day.

In the mean time, go watch Matrix. You live in it.

 

[kaneda]

So why isn't she Asian or Indian?

Have you been to Silicon Valley, Asian peoople ruled the place. Asian people don't complain, they just taking care of business and make money...

 

[phillipduran]

Try this thought exercise:

You're in Silicon Valley to pitch a new widget to some tech companies. You've booked three meetings today. You walk into your first meeting. There are twenty white men around the table, waiting to hear your pitch. What do you think about that?

Second meeting. There are twenty people again, but this time, five are white men, five are Asian men and ten are black women. What do you think about that?

Third meeting. This one's a smaller group of eight, and they're all black women. What do you think about that?

I'll offer the most likely answers to the three questions. 1: Nothing. You don't think anything about it, and just make your pitch. 2: "Uh. That's odd. There must be some kind of quota thing here." You hesitate for a moment while you process it and then make your pitch. 3: "WTF?" You wonder if you should bother making your pitch.

Now, here's the thing. Silicon Valley's a big place, and even with the current overall demographics, all three of those scenarios are statistically possible. If you're a tech person who understands probabilities and you also really "don't see race or gender," you wouldn't think anything about any of those scenarios. You'd just make your pitch, because you've got widgets to move.

Now, before you get on here and claim you'd be the one who just makes the pitch to all three meetings, don't lie to yourself. And if you know you're lying to yourself, don't get on here and lie to everybody else.

WOW! What a truly amazing insight into your mind. I like how you add "Dont lie to yourself" in an attempt to assume validation of your views.

I DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU, and many others do not. What you take as normal is not and it is what you PERCEIVE as normal but is only a reflection of what is in your head. Maybe you should learn to listen more and assume a bit less that others think like you.

I believe this is called projecting.

I ran through your list and the only thought through my mind was, I want to propose an idea so I look at it like fishing. I'll toss my line into all three of those pools to see which one will bite and the only color I see in any of those three groups is green. It sounds to me like you have been taught to rate potential or money or something based on skin color. What caused that in your life or thought process?

I am really shaking my head over your post. Both funny and sad, but oh so revealing.

 

[milo]

And in related news, MR posters fall over each other in a race to show who is the most terrible person.

 

[FrankieTDouglas]

Why would you assume that? It couldn't possibly be that she's highly qualified for this job, could it? Noo, it must be her race/gender.

Attitudes like yours help illustrate why there's still a need to push for greater diversity, equity and inclusion in the workforce. So thanks for proving the need!

She very well might be the most qualified for the position. If "diversity hiring preferences" weren't a factor in hiring decisions, then we would all know without a doubt that she's the most qualified.

So it would seem less odd to you if it were an old white dude like most of the VPs at Apple already are?
[doublepost=1495596338][/doublepost]
Diversity and inclusion isn't about saying no to white people. It's about ensuring minorities don't hear no in situations where they are the most qualified.

Do you see the difference? Can we stop with the irrational fear now and try just a little to understand what's actually happening?
[doublepost=1495596489][/doublepost]
Thank you for being one of the few people here not succumbing to irrational fear and for speaking up for what is right and true.

I'd believe you more, if I hadn't already been in numerous hiring/promotion committees over the past years that specifically stressed the needed preference for a woman/ethnic/orientation minority hire/promotion.

 

[applezulu]

WOW! What a truly amazing insight into your mind. I like how you add "Dont lie to yourself" in an attempt to assume validation of your views.

I DO NOT THINK LIKE YOU, and many others do not. What you take as normal is not and it is what you PERCEIVE as normal but is only a reflection of what is in your head. Maybe you should learn to listen more and assume a bit less that others think like you.

I believe this is called projecting.

I ran through your list and the only thought through my mind was, I want to propose an idea so I look at it like fishing. I'll toss my line into all three of those pools to see which one will bite and the only color I see in any of those three groups is green. It sounds to me like you have been taught to rate potential or money or something based on skin color. What caused that in your life or thought process?

I am really shaking my head over your post. Both funny and sad, but oh so revealing.

If I believed everyone else thinks like I do, I'd just come on here and agree with everything everyone else writes, wouldn't I? You know, because they already think like I do.

No, I was offering that little tidbit for people who don't think like I do and have been all over this thread going on about 'diversity' obviously having to mean quota hiring of unqualified women and brown people, all at the expense of more deserving non-brown, non-female victims who just can't get a fair chance at anything anymore.

The line about not lying to yourself was meant to offer some people the chance to ponder honestly to themselves how they really might react, rather than getting defensive and replying angrily and a little too insistently that they're the least racist person there is.

So sure, I'll take you at your word that you don't think like I do. I was already aware that many others also don't, thanks!

 

[routine_analyst]

Diversity and inclusion isn't about saying no to white people. It's about ensuring minorities don't hear no in situations where they are the most qualified. Do you see the difference? Can we stop with the irrational fear now and try just a little to understand what's actually happening?

So... again... judging anyone based completely on race, is racism. My post started by stating that candidates should be judged by ability. When you have two identical candidates and you have a voice pushing to hire minorities for "inclusion and diversity" but you have no voice supporting the candidates that do not fulfill these race or gender qualifications, the equation will eventually always will lean to one side. The equation would be 1 (+1) > 1.

 

[darcyf]

So... again... judging anyone based completely on race, is racism. My post started by stating that candidates should be judged by ability. When you have two identical candidates and you have a voice pushing to hire minorities for "inclusion and diversity" but you have no voice supporting the candidates that do not fulfill these race or gender qualifications, the equation will eventually always will lean to one side. The equation would be 1 (+1) > 1.

Historically we know that racism has negatively affected the lives of miniroties and given whites an unfair advantage. Now people are trying to remove that disadvantage and you're calling that racism. Incredible.

 

[techwhiz]

So... again... judging anyone based completely on race, is racism. My post started by stating that candidates should be judged by ability. When you have two identical candidates and you have a voice pushing to hire minorities for "inclusion and diversity" but you have no voice supporting the candidates that do not fulfill these race or gender qualifications, the equation will eventually always will lean to one side. The equation would be 1 (+1) > 1.

Actually racism is not the pre-judgement.
There is a difference between prejudice, bigotry and racism.
Racism always involves prejudice and bigotry.
Bigotry always involves prejudice.
Prejudice is a preconceived notion, good or bad.
Bigotry expands on prejudice where you take your preconceived notions and you treat people differently. Racism expands bigotry. Bigotry and power is racism; which is why most minorities can be bigots but only in very few instances can they be racist. People confuse the terms. Many will disagree with me. But those that disagree probably were never discriminated against.

You can call it splitting hairs. Everybody has some degree of prejudice but it does not necessarily affect the way they treat people. There are plenty of bigots here.

The idea of reverse racism is a term created by internet trolls. There is no authorative or scholarly acceptance of "reverse racism".

For 100 years the thumb was on the scale in favor of white men in America. With very few exceptions prior to 1967 a black man competing with a white man almost always lost. He could be more qualified and lose. I grew up being told I had to be twice as good to get the same opportunity as a white guy. Why, because for 100 years it was true. We had Jim Crow and The Black Codes which codified discrimination and made it legal. Call it what you want, but America had Apartheid. Denial of access to housing, jobs and education based on race.

Now companies are actively trying to recruit QUALIFIED candidates in the name of diversity and those that never had to compete are afraid that they can't get the job.

Bigots always want to call black folks snowflakes.
Who are the real snowflakes? They see the advantage going away and can't deal.

Competition bites......

 

[Reach9]

"The idea that all minorities hear no in situations where they are the most qualified is ridiculous."

You're right. That is ridiculous. Which is why no one is saying that.

Why is it so hard to understand this is about trying to ensure the right person for the job gets the job? Regardless of ethnicity. That the whole point of this is to endure under no circumstance would ethnicity play a role.

Does that mean a few less white people might get hired? Probably. But that would only be because those particular white people were less qualified than the successful candidate.

Does it mean no wiite people are getting hired at Apple? Absolutely not. If you think that then your fear is clouding your judgement.

Apple is smart. It wants the best people for the job. Hiring anyone other than the most qualified person just for a little PR blip makes zero sense. This initiative is literally the opposite of that. It's an effort to ensure the most qualified person always gets the job. Regardless of ethnicity.

Your assumption that the default state of the industry is that hiring managers in general only hire white people because they're white, and that they don't get the right person for the job is absolutely ridiculous.

This is not about trying to ensure the right person for the job gets the job, regardless of ethnicity. Quite the opposite actually, because they're actively stating that ethnicity plays a role in hiring.

You think that the industry is racist and sexist by default, and this is a fix. The reality is that it's just not true.