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So a completely noob question, if someone was evaluating getting an audio system for general TV consumption, I am guessing a receiver is a necessary starting point. Once that is bought, does it make sense to buy standalone 5 speakers or would home pods be able to simulate equally good sound. I am also assuming you can't use Home-pods with TV unless you have a receiver?

What sound system you buy should be guided by your lifestyle.

Mainly live TV and 480-720p streaming with regular music playback: Most soundbars will be fine
Watch 3-4 bluray or 4K movies a month: Soundbar with subwoofer or 5.1 system.
Watch 3-4 bluray or 4K movies a month with no worries about disturbing household members or neighbours: Very powerful 5.1 or 7.1 separates with receiver
 
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Most AV stores will do a package of speakers/AMP, if you are just starting out, may want to go for one of those so you know it all works together. I would listen to a speaker system before buying as you will probably be keeping for 10 years +, to make sure you are happy with how it sounds.

I wouldn't try using the home pods for TV audio, that's not what they are designed for and you will probably get a delay between what is showing on the screen and what is going out of the home pod.

I have this setup in our bedroom, and it sounds great, and looks great. The A/V sync is perfect, Apple is doing some kind of delaying of the video feed (in the Apple TV) to make sure the A/V is perfect.
 
My Pioneer elite receive doesn't work with Airplay 2 it seems. I doubt they will fix it either...It always work great for me in the past. So much for that now.
 
Here's the issue for real audiophiles:

Airplay is a badly compromised system for hifi audio. First, it is limited to 16bit 44kHz. Even Chromecast Audio goes up 24bit 96kHz. If you're happy with CD quality audio then Airplay is....OK, but audio has come a long way in the past 10 years so let me ask you are you happy with your 1080p TV or do you want 4K? Why then would you compromise on audio?

Second issue is Airplay wants to control the clocking of the musical stream. Taking control of the clocking away from the end devise is a compromise. This gets complicated so Google the term, "RAAT and clock ownership" to read some discussions about why Airplay's scheme for managing clocking is not ideal.

When you start to go over $1,000 for audio components, you're near the price range where quality should really matter. A much better way to go about this is to buy devises that are roon ready. NAD is doing this as well as ELAC, Bluesound, Creek, Naim, Krell, PS Audio, and many more. What a roon ready device does is integrate with the roon player (kicks iTunes in the butt) and allows for all audio formats including FLAC up to 32bit 384kHz, DSD up to 512, and Master Quality Authentication MQA files), It allows for the endpoint to own its own clock, allows for multi room audio. It is a far better system if you really care about music.

It seems Denon and Merantz could easily updated their devices to be roon ready if they go through the process. At that point their receivers could be considered by more serious audiophiles.


I get what you're saying, and I certainly fit every definition of "audiophile". And you're right, for local file playback, AirPlay is not the best route.

However... For listening to Apple Music (30M songs!), direct AirPlay 2 integration into my Marantz AV8805 is the most pure experience for listening to all those Apple Music songs.
 
So a completely noob question, if someone was evaluating getting an audio system for general TV consumption, I am guessing a receiver is a necessary starting point. Once that is bought, does it make sense to buy standalone 5 speakers or would home pods be able to simulate equally good sound. I am also assuming you can't use Home-pods with TV unless you have a receiver?

If you want to do it right, get a receiver, preferably Denon or Yamaha. They’re both at the top of the heap when it comes to value and reliability for the money in this market. Stay away from sound bars and ‘home theaters in a box.’ When the electronics die or become outdated, and one of those will eventually happen, the whole thing becomes trash and you’ve lost 100% of your investment.

If you buy separates, when the time comes you only have to replace the receiver and can keep the speakers, which you should be spending at least as much money on as the receiver, preferably more. A speaker can easily last 20 years or longer. I’ve got about $3k wrapped up in my receiver and speakers, but when the time comes, I only have to replace my $500 receiver, not the entire setup like you would if you were replacing a sound bar or HTiB.

If you want specifics look at getting a Denon S640H or S740H, depending on the features you want. Pair that with some ELAC Debuts. You can obviously spend more than that, but that’s a great entry level setup for example.
 
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Here is the list of Denon and Marantz devices that support Airplay 2:

DENON
AVR-X8500H
AVR-X6500H
AVR-X6400H
AVR-X6300H
AVR-X4500H
AVR-X4400H
AVR-X4300H
AVR-X3500H
AVR-X3400H
AVR-X2500H
AVR-X2400H
AVR-X1500H
AVR-X1400H
AVR-S940H
AVR-S930H
AVR-S740H
AVR-S730H
AVR-S640H
DNP-800NE
CEOL RCD-N10

MARANTZ
SR8012
SR7013
SR7012
SR7011
SR6013
SR6012
SR5013
SR5012
NR1609
NR1608
NR1509
NR1508
NA6006
ND8006
AV8805
AV7705
AV7704
AV7703

HEOS - Home Cinema HS2
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If you want to do it right, get a receiver, preferably Denon or Yamaha. They’re both at the top of the heap when it comes to value and reliability for the money in this market. Stay away from sound bars and ‘home theaters in a box.’ When the electronics die or become outdated, and one of those will eventually happen, the whole thing becomes trash and you’ve lost 100% of your investment.

If you buy separates, when the time comes you only have to replace the receiver and can keep the speakers, which you should be spending at least as much money on as the receiver, preferably more. A speaker can easily last 20 years or longer. I’ve got about $3k wrapped up in my receiver and speakers, but when the time comes, I only have to replace my $500 receiver, not the entire setup like you would if you were replacing a sound bar or HTiB.

If you want specifics look at getting a Denon S640H or S740H, depending on the features you want. Pair that with some ELAC Debuts. You can obviously spend more than that, but that’s a great entry level setup for example.

I completely agree and would steer himanshumodi towards the AVR-S740H or the AVR-S730H and save a few dollars.
 
With the AirPlay 2 update, compatible Denon and Marantz devices offer support for multi-room audio and are able to work with other AirPlay 2 devices such as the HomePod, the Apple TV, and Sonos speakers.
"Compatible" in the marketing sense, not the technical sense, of course. Because why would we update that $2,000 receiver you bought last year when we could sell you a new one this year?
 
If you want to do it right, get a receiver, preferably Denon or Yamaha. They’re both at the top of the heap when it comes to value and reliability for the money in this market. Stay away from sound bars and ‘home theaters in a box.’ When the electronics die or become outdated, and one of those will eventually happen, the whole thing becomes trash and you’ve lost 100% of your investment.

(...snip of other good advice...)

A word of caution: with some combinations of components, lip-sync will be off enough to drive you up the wall if you are, for example, attempting to enjoy 4K60 HDR content from a 4K Blu-Ray player. Make sure you research this, or test it yourself, before dropping your hard-earned coin.

In my own case, my TV is a 65" Sony XBR 900C, and my 4K Blu-Ray player is also Sony. I ended up going with a Sony receiver because Sony has a (proprietary) audio protocol that makes it all work. Absent that, I'd need a dedicated delay box in there to tune the audio delay to make it work with heterogeneous equipment.
 
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"Compatible" in the marketing sense, not the technical sense, of course. Because why would we update that $2,000 receiver you bought last year when we could sell you a new one this year?
Your point is well taken, but in this case, AP2 actually requires larger buffers and a few other things that might not be possible to update via firmware. You could make the argument that the "upgrade-locking" was actually done by Apple, in that they didn't do what they could have to decouple the improvements that require actual hardware (like less playback interruptions/more buffering, better clock syncing, perhaps the whole multi-room/multi-source thing, whatever) with those that may not (general better performance, more reliability, etc.).

I use AirPlay exclusively, and it's an 80/90 solution, meaning it 80% of the time it does 90% of what it's supposed to. If I had to guess, I'd say the culprit is Denon's implementation of AirPlay, not the standard itself (or Apple) but who knows? If Sonos would [FINALLY WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!] release a reasonably priced "add on" unit (without a speaker) I'd jump ship in a heartbeat. I could do HEOS, I guess, but I don't trust Denon to do this correctly (see also: their crap implementation of AirPlay)

I even use what should be the most stable use-case, which is streaming from a fixed Mac/iTunes library (no iOS/phone streaming) connected to speakers, one Airplay speaker and a [wired] Denon x4400 in my home theater. The number of different behaviors I see when doing ostensibly the same exact activity is staggering.

For example:

Firing up the iOS "remote" app and trying to play something from my iTunes library will do one of the following (best to worst):

1). Won't connect, because the Macbook Pro with the iTunes library has somehow timed out, even though it's set to never sleep (other than the display). This started happening with a recent MacOS update, so I'm not sure what's going on there.
2). Will connect, after a long delay (I have the remote app set to "stay connected). Presumably it's waking the system up.
3). Connects, plays through one AP speaker and "locally" (speakers connected to MBP) but doesn't wake up the Denon, even though it's selected (this is usually fixed by unlicking and re-cliking the Denon in the AP sources area)
4). The above, but some device (likely the Denon) also sends an AP "stop" (not pause). This has the effect of messing up whatever playlist I'm using (i.e. it sends me out of the playlist in the remote app and I have to go find what I was playing again. This also screws up/changes the previous shuffle or Genius order). I still have to re-do the connection to the Denon
5). As above, but it blanks out all the other data sources, so I have to re-add them (i.e. it only plays on the Denon)
6). It just works (i.e. the song plays on all three sets of speakers).

I would bet that most of this is based on whatever status the Denon is set to; i.e. is it off, on, on but switched to a different input, are there previous multicast AirPlay packets floating around the network, etc. but at this point, who knows? There really aren't a ton of moving parts here: there's 1). the connection from my iPhone remote app to the Mac/iTunes library (Bonjour, I believe), 2). the Airplay commands the iTunes library sends to the devices, 3). how those devices interpret those commands/the commands they send back.

My hope is that AP2 will fix the third issue, and I'll get to a 90/100 solution or something.

I honestly don't care one little bit about multi-source multi-room, or how it works from my iPhone etc. I just want it to work.
 
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I have updated my X3400 yesterday and I’m “airplaying 2” to it (living room) and to my bedroom Apple TV 4K right now as I write this, so smile your a winner, now go and update that beast of a receiver!

Woohoo! Thanks! I'll update it once I can!
 
A word of caution: with some combinations of components, lip-sync will be off enough to drive you up the wall if you are, for example, attempting to enjoy 4K60 HDR content from a 4K Blu-Ray player. Make sure you research this, or test it yourself, before dropping your hard-earned coin.

In my own case, my TV is a 65" Sony XBR 900C, and my 4K Blu-Ray player is also Sony. I ended up going with a Sony receiver because Sony has a (proprietary) audio protocol that makes it all work. Absent that, I'd need a dedicated delay box in there to tune the audio delay to make it work with homogeneous equipment.

This is in no way a common issue. Most setups will be perfectly fine. The only way I can see this being an issue is if you have a cheap, junky TV with very high input lag. And then again, most decent receivers have adjustable audio/video delay settings. Which I don’t even have to use with my Sony TV, Denon receiver, and Apple TV. Non-issue for 99% of people.
 
Here's the issue for real audiophiles:

Airplay is a badly compromised system for hifi audio. First, it is limited to 16bit 44kHz. Even Chromecast Audio goes up 24bit 96kHz. If you're happy with CD quality audio then Airplay is....OK, but audio has come a long way in the past 10 years so let me ask you are you happy with your 1080p TV or do you want 4K? Why then would you compromise on audio?

CD quality audio? I'd LOVE to get CD quality digital audio again. All these squished mp3s make my ears sad :-(
 
Your point is well taken, but in this case, AP2 actually requires larger buffers and a few other things that might not be possible to update via firmware. You could make the argument that the "upgrade-locking" was actually done by Apple, in that they didn't do what they could have to decouple the improvements that require actual hardware (like less playback interruptions/more buffering, better clock syncing, perhaps the whole multi-room/multi-source thing, whatever) with those that may not (general better performance, more reliability, etc.).

I use AirPlay exclusively, and it's an 80/90 solution, meaning it 80% of the time it does 90% of what it's supposed to. If I had to guess, I'd say the culprit is Denon's implementation of AirPlay, not the standard itself (or Apple) but who knows? If Sonos would [FINALLY WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!] release a reasonably priced "add on" unit (without a speaker) I'd jump ship in a heartbeat. I could do HEOS, I guess, but I don't trust Denon to do this correctly (see also: their crap implementation of AirPlay)

I even use what should be the most stable use-case, which is streaming from a fixed Mac/iTunes library (no iOS/phone streaming) connected to speakers, one Airplay speaker and a [wired] Denon x4400 in my home theater. The number of different behaviors I see when doing ostensibly the same exact activity is staggering.

For example:

Firing up the iOS "remote" app and trying to play something from my iTunes library will do one of the following (best to worst):

1). Won't connect, because the Macbook Pro with the iTunes library has somehow timed out, even though it's set to never sleep (other than the display). This started happening with a recent MacOS update, so I'm not sure what's going on there.
2). Will connect, after a long delay (I have the remote app set to "stay connected). Presumably it's waking the system up.
3). Connects, plays through one AP speaker and "locally" (speakers connected to MBP) but doesn't wake up the Denon, even though it's selected (this is usually fixed by unlicking and re-cliking the Denon in the AP sources area)
4). The above, but some device (likely the Denon) also sends an AP "stop" (not pause). This has the effect of messing up whatever playlist I'm using (i.e. it sends me out of the playlist in the remote app and I have to go find what I was playing again. This also screws up/changes the previous shuffle or Genius order). I still have to re-do the connection to the Denon
5). As above, but it blanks out all the other data sources, so I have to re-add them (i.e. it only plays on the Denon)
6). It just works (i.e. the song plays on all three sets of speakers).

I would bet that most of this is based on whatever status the Denon is set to; i.e. is it off, on, on but switched to a different input, are there previous multicast AirPlay packets floating around the network, etc. but at this point, who knows? There really aren't a ton of moving parts here: there's 1). the connection from my iPhone remote app to the Mac/iTunes library (Bonjour, I believe), 2). the Airplay commands the iTunes library sends to the devices, 3). how those devices interpret those commands/the commands they send back.

My hope is that AP2 will fix the third issue, and I'll get to a 90/100 solution or something.

I honestly don't care one little bit about multi-source multi-room, or how it works from my iPhone etc. I just want it to work.

I have a similar setup but don't run into those issues. I run music from iTunes on my Mac. I have a total of 6 Airplay receivers around my house, 2 Airport Expresses, 2 B&W Z2s, Apple TV and Denon. All devices including computer are wired with Cat6, except my 2 B&W's, which give me the most problems when they do arise. I run a Denon X4200 and admit their implementation of Airplay stinks, although I believe it lies with Apple's software not on Denon's side. As of this latest iTunes release, my Denon and B&W's grey out in the Speaker list in iTunes, I have to deselect and then select again. The speaker list also re-arranges itself once I select or deselect a speaker which is odd.

In my opinion, an Airport Express connected to a 2 Channel Amp with Auto On feature has to be the most seamless approach in all my years using AP. I use this setup for my back patio, it just works! No fussing with inputs, outputs, zones, etc. I too don't care for Multi Room / Multi Source audio, listening to different audio within close proximity is horribly annoying. Although I wont complain if Apple upgrades the Airport Express firmware to AP2 so I don't have to go back to my Mac to change stations. Hoping!!!

I'm a huge fan of AP, huge.
 
I might be switching receivers to Denon, getting a bit sick of Yamaha's incompetence in recent times, MusicCast's lack of reliability, Airpods incompatiblity, Yamaha's WX-010 being one of the worst sounding smart speakers compared to Apple, Sonos, Denon. No Airplay 2 update for any Yamaha receiver as far as I know. It's time I think?
 
Doubt it. Seems to only be the x4500. I have an x3400 I got for 499, so I knew I would miss his upgrade. I don’t think it’s worth an extra 500 though.
The X3400H is officially the list to receive Airplay 2. And even though it wasn't on earlier lists, my Denon S930H just updated this evening with Airplay 2.
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Are you serious? (And meaning this in surprised positive way)
I read up on this a week ago and the ony ones receiving updates were the 2018 modells which would be x2500.

I took the stab and just ordered a x2400 due to a brilliant deal, but knew I would miss Airplay2.

Do you have a good source or link to the FW for the x2400?

Even though it wasn't on earlier lists, my Denon S930H just updated this evening with Airplay 2.
 
So a completely noob question, if someone was evaluating getting an audio system for general TV consumption, I am guessing a receiver is a necessary starting point. Once that is bought, does it make sense to buy standalone 5 speakers or would home pods be able to simulate equally good sound. I am also assuming you can't use Home-pods with TV unless you have a receiver?

I would say it all depends on how much you want to spend, and what your priorities are.
I have 2 home pods that I use in my living room, paired to an Apple TV. For a simple and clean installation, they are great, but they don't come close to the true surround sound setup I have in my basement.

I think for general TV watching, home pods are overpriced but very good. If you're a gamer or care about surround sound with your movies, go with a receiver, speakers, and a real subwoofer.
 
Anyone know if Yamaha (RX-A670) are going to release an update to support AirPlay 2 anytime soon?
When I asked Yamaha customer support yesterday they could tell me that their engineers are "in communication with Apple" on support for AirPlay 2. However no guarantees that any exiting models will get the feature. They advised me to keep checking back on the Yamaha website for firmware updates and see what turns up...
 
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You can always use an Apple TV

Actually the current generation Apple TVs won't work in my application of needing to receive an Airplay 2 signal and sending it to my stereo receivers, since all of them (three Yamaha's, a Denon, and a Sony) have only analogue inputs, and unfortunately the current Apple TVs have no analogue outputs. Plus in my application none of them would be hooked up to a TV, which would be necessary to set up an Apple TV.

I do have two AV receivers in operation (2 Yamahas) which have Apple TVs hooked up to them via HDMI, but that doesn't help with the stereo receivers throughout the house.

Currently I'm using Airport Expresses connected to each of my stereo receivers, but those are limited to Airport 1. So I'm still hoping to see one or more companies introduce an Airplay 2 receiving device with an analogue output.
 
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Doubt it. Seems to only be the x4500. I have an x3400 I got for 499, so I knew I would miss his upgrade. I don’t think it’s worth an extra 500 though.
Yeah, I have a 4200 and as much as I’d love it not expecting it. Not enough of a reason to upgrade, either.
 
Solved this years ago with a wonderful product called Apple Airport Express and my 1978 Marantz 1060b
The audio quality of a receiver / amplifier is the whole reason people should buy one, and once you've got one you like, you hold on to it if you know what's good for you. Good to add these features but yeah, you can pick up Bluetooth 4.0 audio receivers with a high quality DAC for under $100 and suddenly your 40 year old integrated amp is equal (and often superior) to a brand new one.
 
Has anyone of your Denon owners encountered any problem after the update?

My X2400 that's hooked via ethernet cable has a problem where the sound cuts from any HDMI source no matter what decodings being done.
Every 20-30 seconds a one second sound dropout/cut will appear.

Only workaround I find was, and its a strange one, to disconnect the ethernet cable.

Anyone come across anything like it?
 
Home audio question. I’ve got 14 in-ceiling speakers that I’d like to group into 5 “Airplay 2” zones. Do I need one amplifier for every zone or do some of these offerings from Marantz and Denon allow you to run multiple Airplay 2 zones from one amplifier, such that I might need to only get two or three amps?
 
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