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how can a compressed version, be it lossless or not, be just as good as a CD?

You still seem to be confused about the concept of lossless data compression. Music on an audio CD is simply encoded as a string of bits (more specifically in 16bit PCM encoding at a sampling rate of 44.1khz and with 2 channels). From the perspective of a (naive) lossless data compressor, it doesn't make much of a difference whether the bits describe music, pictures or text.

Now, for example, one trivial lossless compression technique would be to look for recurring patterns in the string of bits and save such patterns only once. You can then reference them at the positions where they occur. It'll now take a bit of effort to reconstruct the original, but the resulting file still contains the exact same amount of information. Professional compression algorithms use additional, and more advanced techniques of course, and in the case of music, pictures and video utilize their knowledge about the meaning of underlying bits and so are possibly able to employ some domain-specific lossless compression techniques - this plays a much greater role in lossy compression though.

A lossy file is technically by definition never as "good" as its source, since at least some of the original information is actually discarded and will be gone forever. On the other hand, a compressed but lossless file will be just as good as the CD it came from for the very same reason that extracting a word document from a ZIP file will result in a file just as "good" as the original word document.

A lossless audio codec will retain all of the audio information contained in the source file. It makes no sense to discuss audio quality differences between lossless audio codecs and uncompressed audio.


I only use wav or aiff files for my songs as they all are copied from CDs. Am I taking a wrong direction by not converting them? I can't see how it can be any more beneficial except by taking up less space.

That's all there is to it. :)
 
My next question would be, how can a compressed version, be it lossless or not, be just as good as a CD?

If I create a Word document, and archive it into a ZIP file, the ZIP file takes up much less disk space, yet still contains 100% of the binary data required to reconstitute the original Word document when you unzip it. It has to, because if any data were missing, the Word file would become corrupted and wouldn't open.

The same applies for lossless compression to music. All of the original data is still there (or more specifically, can be reconstituted by the decompression algorithm).
 
I get the higher bit rate making a difference, especially when we refer to the Beatles catalog. My next question would be, how can a compressed version, be it lossless or not, be just as good as a CD? I only use wav or aiff files for my songs as they all are copied from CDs. Am I taking a wrong direction by not converting them? I can't see how it can be any more beneficial except by taking up less space. I am willing to pay for the extra space unless there is a specified benefit.

There are two kinds of compression - lossy and lossless.

Lossy is where they throw away information to reduce the file size. Examples would be MP3 and JPEG.

Lossless compression means you get exactly the same thing out as you put in. Again think of a ZIP file. Examples would be FLAC and PNG.

I didn't know until now you're using WAV/AIFF, so you've already got the uncompressed source. A lossless codec would give you the following benefits over WAV/AIFF:

- Reduction of file sizes by 1/3 - 1/2
- Better metadata tag support (album, artist, track, album art, etc.).
 
I appreciate the information. I had tried looking this up on wikipedia, but it makes more sense directly from someone who understands. I am sure I am biased against digital, but this stems from recording I have done where analog tape captured the music so much better than a digital recorder. I aim to try to keep the music in its best format for sound quality.

I also had resisted the concept of iPod, and have only since purchased my first iPod in July (replaced a Zune I had troubled with for the last few years after receiving it as a gift.) I must say iPod is so much more of a pleasure to work with. And it has a bit more style to it as well. I use it as a digital jukebox, with all music in uncompressed format. I forsee in the near future it reaching its limits, and was further pursuing exactly what we have been going back and forth on, uncompressed versus lossless.

Thanks for the information and clarification. You all are a wealth of information.
 
You still seem to be confused about the concept of lossless data compression. Music on an audio CD is simply encoded as a string of bits (more specifically in 16bit PCM encoding at a sampling rate of 44.1khz and with 2 channels). From the perspective of a (naive) lossless data compressor, it doesn't make much of a difference whether the bits describe music, pictures or text.

Now, for example, one trivial lossless compression technique would be to look for recurring patterns in the string of bits and save such patterns only once. You can then reference them at the positions where they occur. It'll now take a bit of effort to reconstruct the original, but the resulting file still contains the exact same amount of information. Professional compression algorithms use additional, and more advanced techniques of course, and in the case of music, pictures and video utilize their knowledge about the meaning of underlying bits and so are possibly able to employ some domain-specific lossless compression techniques - this plays a much greater role in lossy compression though.

A lossy file is technically by definition never as "good" as its source, since at least some of the original information is actually discarded and will be gone forever. On the other hand, a compressed but lossless file will be just as good as the CD it came from for the very same reason that extracting a word document from a ZIP file will result in a file just as "good" as the original word document.

A lossless audio codec will retain all of the audio information contained in the source file. It makes no sense to discuss audio quality differences between lossless audio codecs and uncompressed audio.




That's all there is to it. :)

this is called deduplication and is used on backup software. works very well with MS Office files, not so well with databases. we have people that use it and the compression ratio is amazing. newer versions of dedupe are even better.

this is how Mozy can charge $60 a year and keep your data on expensive storage so it's safe

and if you listen to modern post nirvana rock which is mostly 1970's punk with a new label i bet the compression ratio is even more amazing
 
Let me answer in reverse.

Why lossless? It's the same as having the CD. When you make an MP3, did you ever wonder why the file size is so small? It does a bunch of tricks to eliminate things you aren't supposed to notice are gone, and it has to "quantize" down to the bitrate you choose -- that's why yes you can have a 96kbps MP3 and it doesn't sound as good as a 320kbps MP3 -- it's a tradeoff, and it's always lossy. What you get is not the same as the original source.

Given you can verify bit-perfectness of the rip (eac, etc.) then having the lossless version is equal to having the original CD bit for bit. Lossless codecs such as FLAC and ALAC work somewhat like ZIP does, it compresses but doesn't throw any information away. File sizes are bigger, but the original material is 100% preserved.

I would agrue that lossless sound in movies is close to irrelevant. Even the theatrical versions of Dolby, DTS, and SDDS are lossy (I'm not even sure the lossless versions of these codecs are in use in the average theater as we speak). I'm not even sure theatrically what the bitrate is, but I know in home theater applications the bitrate is poor (max 640kbps for Dolby, 1.4mbps for DTS). I'll definitely take the lossless 48-24 home versions, regardless.

As for the various lossless codecs (most popular are FLAC, Apple Lossless, and WavePack):

- ALAC is good because Apple devices support it. It's bad because it is proprietary and slightly worse performing than FLAC.
- FLAC is good because it's open and a wide variety of non-Apple devices support it.

The Beatles USB release that you are speaking of is even better than all of this, because not only is it lossless FLAC it is higher than CD quality. CDs quality is 44.1kHz sampling rate and 16-bit sample size. The Beatles USB has 24-bit samples instead of the normal 16-bit samples you get from a CD rip, and the result is -- it's the best the Beatles have ever sounded. I collect a lot of high resolution (greater than CD) music and the 24-bit sampling is what makes the biggest difference.

When (if) lossless music becomes in demand instead of iTunes, aside from the iTMS it will no doubt be delivered in FLAC. Some other places I've seen FLAC used commercially:

- I bought the Tom Petty Mojo music Blu-Ray. It had a code for a free 48-24 stereo download of the album, in FLAC.
- There are various high-resolution music stores such as HDtracks that sell high-res music and they use FLAC.

i used to experiment with this going back to the late 1990's and almost all of my ripped music was lossless until earlier this year.

even with nice headphones i can barely tell the difference between AAC and lossless on my 3GS. very very small difference that's not worth the storage used of going lossless

on a stereo i used to hate listening to MP3's. but i haven't listened to music on a stereo for so long i don't care
 
yea great. What about sub $500 receivers?

Considering this is price range for 90% of home stereo setups, i think it matters a little more.

2k for a denon in the living room...LOL!!

probably next year

most of these advances are determined by flash prices. the smart device revolution only started when flash started to become dirt cheap
 
I am sure I am biased against digital, but this stems from recording I have done where analog tape captured the music so much better than a digital recorder. I aim to try to keep the music in its best format for sound quality.

I hear where you are coming from, I'm starting to get back into vinyl for the sound quality.

Also keep in mind, not all digital is equal. Not only lossy vs lossless, but then there's the issue of sampling rates and sample sizes. The CD's 44.1kHz 16-bit is a compromise.

What most consumer equipment deals with is 16-bit sampling and 44.1 or 48kHz sampling rates. Going better (such as 24-bit samples and 96kHz sampling rate) makes a noticeable difference and better approaches analog's sound qualities. I've been collecting a lot of vinyl this way as well as advanced digital sources (such as DVD-A and Blu-Ray audio).

i used to experiment with this going back to the late 1990's and almost all of my ripped music was lossless until earlier this year.

even with nice headphones i can barely tell the difference between AAC and lossless on my 3GS. very very small difference that's not worth the storage used of going lossless

on a stereo i used to hate listening to MP3's. but i haven't listened to music on a stereo for so long i don't care

I can see that, but I'll add that if you find yourself re-encoding a lot (for example I have to downsample to fit on an iPod, and sometimes different formats for different players) I like the idea of keeping lossless around as a master and only doing one lossy reencode for any target -- versus doing multiple generations of lossy encoding where each one degrades the quality, like making a copy of a copy of a copy.
 
maybe when my kids are grown and i'll have money to burn like my inlaws. by then metallica will be performing at lincoln center.

right now i listen to music on the train to work and if my son shows some musical interest and i buy him a guitar i'll start him on The Ramones. at 3 he already likes to listen to them sometimes
 
Uh, the DAC in the Airport Express is nowhere near as efficient and effective as the DAC in the Denon. As well, in order to get "bit perfect" you need to have an optical in port on your receiver. Otherwise you're letting the AE perform the DAC and then going analog from there to RCA jacks.

So, the AE option only works to deliver high quality if you're receiver has a great DAC and you go optical out from the AE to optical in on your receiver.

thx for the tip!
 
That is a fact actually. Infinitely preferable to control volume at the receiver, in the analog domain.

Reducing the volume digitally (as in the iTunes volume control) throws away bits.

This pseudo-truth perpetuated in high-end circles (know for their ignorance about actual science) fails to mention that as you decrease overall volume, you also decrease perceptible dynamic-range in the process making those "thrown away bits" utterly and completely irrelevant in most cases. Bits in digital audio only represent dynamic range, not frequency response of the reconstructed signal which is across the time-domain. In other words, extra bits don't give you extra audio information beyond dynamic-range and dynamic-range is limited artificially as volume is dropped regardless of using analog or digital volume controls so the whole notion of digital volume control being "evil" is absolutely ridiculous and frankly downright absurd. How do you think digital audio recordings are mastered in the first place? ALL the modern digital workstation mastering controls (even in Apple Logic Pro) are 100% digital! Adding inherently noisy analog potentiometers to an otherwise purely digital soundboard is not helpful at all so why people would supposedly think it to be helpful on the playback side can only be a result of the utter ignorance and pseudo-science nonsense perpetuated in "audiophile" magazines whose job is to sell you the overpriced equipment of their advertisers and nothing else (they don't write that magazine out of the goodness of their hearts, after all; they want to make MONEY).

I've seen every audiophile myth imaginable over the years perpetuated from green marker pens for CD edges that magically improve their sound :rolleyes: (and CD mats you wrap around individual CDs that actually put more wear on your transport making it less accurate in motor response, but that didn't stop the high-end magazines and loads of audiophools from bragging how much better their CDs sounded :rolleyes:, the idea that a $25,000 DAC with a 0.01dB difference in frequency response is somehow a worthwhile purchase while their speakers (let alone the room response) already have a +/- 3dB range across the audible spectrum making any such change laughable to $2000 a meter "wire". I've got some swamp land I can sell these people too. :rolleyes:

Most people worrying about the sound quality they're getting would do FAR better improving their speakers and room response than worrying about the type of volume control they're using.

The output is analogue but on this level this doesn't matter. This is the harbinger of technologies that will change the way we use our media. What needs to be removed from the chain is that pesky 'always on' computer. So the next step will be TV sets and AV processors that contain many of the functions of a PC (PC used in the broadest sense, an iMac is a personal computer as well).

This already exists in the rest of the computing world. It's called UPnP (and a subset DLNA). It allows you to store your media on a NAS device (in the case my Netgear router, this means just plugging an external USB drive into the router) and the NAS and/or Router device becomes the "computer" that serves up the data, leaving you free to turn your Mac or PC off or even play a game on it without disturbing someone in another room trying to watch a movie on their UPnP compatible playback device.

The problem is that Apple doesn't want to support a universal STANDARD like UPnP. They want you to use iTunes! This means they want iTunes running 24/7 so you can keep buying crap from their store (notice how AppleTV always defaults to the selection being over the STORE lists, not your own collection. Even after they moved the menu position so your list is first, they defaulted the cursor position to be over the store option when you start it up!) This is precisely why they won't support NAS devices on AppleTV. One of their own engineers once bemoaned this fact. They're aware they could do it. They don't WANT to do it.

"Airplay" is just another propriety Apple format designed to not play nice with the rest of the world's gear in hopes you will be locked into Apple's products (and commercial gear makers can pay Apple license fees).

If XBMC ever gets their software to read video meta-tags (so it can properly support my existing library of movies that are correctly tagged instead of "guessing" wrongly half the time), I'd be moved to ditch the Apple interface altogether (despite being more user friendly) at this point in favor of using a more user-friendly hardware setup. It is absolutely ridiculous in 2011 to not support UPnP and even more ridiculous to not support common formats like AVI and MKV, forcing users to either convert (and lose quality in some cases) or use another player. The only real remaining advantage of the Airtunes part of Airplay is the ability to sync all the rooms of audio together at once for a whole house party mode. I don't use it much. I wouldn't miss it too much. I could always fire up a Mac or PC running iTunes pointing at the NAS library if I really needed to use it.

Let me answer in reverse.

Why lossless? It's the same as having the CD. When you make an MP3, did you ever wonder why the file size is so small? It does a bunch of tricks to eliminate things you aren't supposed to notice

Tricks? Yes, tell psycho-acoustic researchers that they're using "tricks". :rolleyes:

are gone, and it has to "quantize" down to the bitrate you choose -- that's why yes you can have a 96kbps MP3 and it doesn't sound as good as a 320kbps MP3 -- it's a tradeoff, and it's always lossy. What you get is not the same as the original source.

If you can prove (via double blind testing) you can hear a difference between 256kbps AAC and Lossless redbook you'd be the 1st in the entire world to do so. Otherwise, you're just perpetuating audiophile myths. "I think I can hear differences" is not the same as "I can prove I can hear the difference". Most audiophile "golden ear" claims for that matter magically disappear once they're not able to look at the equipment they can supposedly hear a difference in. That doesn't stop them from jumping up and down all day claiming such tests are bogus (they are the ONLY valid ones scientifically) and that they can still hear them once they can see (or otherwise know) their equipment again.


As for the various lossless codecs (most popular are FLAC, Apple Lossless, and WavePack):

- ALAC is good because Apple devices support it. It's bad because it is proprietary and slightly worse performing than FLAC.
- FLAC is good because it's open and a wide variety of non-Apple devices support it.

Slightly worse performing? :rolleyes:

Do you even know what the definition of "lossless" is? I have ALAC DTS files that wouldn't work if they weren't bit-perfect 100% of the time. If you mean ALAC is slightly less efficient at saving space, why are you suddenly worried about space now? You already have a music collection that could take up 60GB at 256kbps AAC taking up 350GB instead to preserve non-audible differences. What's a few more bytes? :rolleyes:
 
Tricks? Yes, tell psycho-acoustic researchers that they're using "tricks". :rolleyes:

:rolleyes::rolleyes:
What do you think the "psycho" in psycho-acoustic means? They're cutting out bits and taking short cuts that human beings aren't supposed to notice based on idiosyncrasies of human hearing to reduce file sizes. It's indeed by definition a trick to fool human hearing, much in the same way showing still images at 24 fps fools the human eye into perceiving motion. :rolleyes:

If you can prove (via double blind testing) you can hear a difference between 256kbps AAC and Lossless redbook you'd be the 1st in the entire world to do so. Otherwise, you're just perpetuating audiophile myths. "I think I can hear differences" is not the same as "I can prove I can hear the difference". Most audiophile "golden ear" claims for that matter magically disappear once they're not able to look at the equipment they can supposedly hear a difference in. That doesn't stop them from jumping up and down all day claiming such tests are bogus (they are the ONLY valid ones scientifically) and that they can still hear them once they can see (or otherwise know) their equipment again.

Well, I don't know what to tell you other than I disagree. On albums I know very well, that I've listened to hundreds of times over a decade or more, I can tell the difference. Especially in spots where lossy encoders fail and create artifacts.

And further, by definition, all of these perception tests are subjective.

Slightly worse performing? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Encode a few albums in both ALAC and FLAC and compare, and get back to me. ALAC is slightly less efficient. ALAC files are larger than their FLAC counterparts, thus ALAC is worse performing. This isn't very complicated.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:


Do you even know what the definition of "lossless" is? I have ALAC DTS files that wouldn't work if they weren't bit-perfect 100% of the time.

And do you even understand what DTS is? If you did, you would understand IT IS LOSSY. In the world of surround sound audio, that's just about the 2nd worst quality format you can get (after Dolby Digital). If your only exposure to surround music is DTS, you're missing out.

Anyway, regarding the various lossless codecs, you unsurprisingly completely missed the boat. ALAC is by all metrics inferior to FLAC and its only benefit is that it is supported in the Apple ecosystem.


:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

If you mean ALAC is slightly less efficient at saving space, why are you suddenly worried about space now? You already have a music collection that could take up 60GB at 256kbps AAC taking up 350GB instead to preserve non-audible differences. What's a few more bytes?

How else do you propose to compare and contrast two lossless codecs if the output is the same? :rolleyes:

Anyway, you can go ahead and store music however you want; however, I want to (a) preserve the original in a perfect manner, and (b) eliminate any possibility of generational loss from re-encoding something in lossy format more than once.
 
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:rolleyes::rolleyes:
What do you think the "psycho" in psycho-acoustic means?

Well, in your particular case.... :D

They're cutting out bits and taking short cuts that human beings aren't supposed to notice based on idiosyncrasies of human hearing to reduce file sizes. It's indeed by definition a trick to fool human hearing, much in the same way showing still images at 24 fps fools the human eye into perceiving motion. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure you understand the definition of the word trick. There is no "illusion" or "deception" involved. For example, if I cannot hear above 20kHz, it doesn't hurt to remove that data. It's completely extraneous. We are talking about sound reproduction for humans to listen to, not dogs or some other creature, so the data present only needs to be heard by humans. That's not a "trick" at all in my book.

Lossy compression is simply more advanced removal of things the human brain is incapable of hearing. At some bit-rates, you can hear the difference. With enough bits (still vastly reduced), it becomes inaudible. I now that is unacceptable to some minds' way of thinking (it's a natural reaction to think you'd prefer lossless compression), but that doesn't mean they can actually hear a difference when they don't know which is being played in a double-blind ABX style test.

I've done my own testing and I'm satisfied I'm not missing anything converting my CDs to 256kbps AAC. Even if I'd psychologically prefer to use the lossless versions, I'm prevented out of convenience. iTunes simply does not handle separate databases for home and mobile use and I need the space on my iPod to carry more material. Furthermore, my car stereo will play AAC and MP4 on a USB stick, but not ALAC or FLAC for that matter. Managing separate ALAC and AAC libraries is way too much a PITA to bother for differences I've never been able to hear in a blind test anyway so the ALAC library is simply an archival backup of my CDs at this point.

On albums I know very well, that I've listened to hundreds of times over a decade or more, I can tell the difference. Especially in spots where lossy encoders fail and create artifacts.

I can hear artifacts at 128kbps MP3 with many songs with no problem at all. It's a different story at 256kbps AAC. But without any blind testing, I could easily fool myself into thinking I was hearing a difference. Entire industries within the audiophile community are based on such imagination processes (e.g. overpriced interconnect wire, for one thing).

A magazine like Stereophile has every reason to poo-poo double-blind testing since their advertisers wouldn't like it very much if they told everyone they were total overpriced snake-oil. So they use multi-thousand dollar interconnects in their "reference" systems and $25,000 DACs and readers then want that kind of equipment too even if it makes no audible difference what-so-ever in reality. I realize it's harder psychologically with a format that does demonstrate audible artifacts at lower bit-rates, but at some point they are indistinguishable (as shown by double blind testing). That point is lower for AAC (more efficient) than MP3.

And further, by definition, all of these perception tests are subjective.

Sorry, but double-blind testing isn't subjective. It's a scientific method to evaluate real perceptive differences with human hearing. It's reproducible and it uses scientific method and therefore it's not subjective in and of itself.

While it cannot prove that a difference is incapable of existing somewhere/somehow by someone anymore than a law of physics can be claimed absolute and immutable as many 'laws' have been eventually proven false, but it can prove whether a given person is capable of hearing a CLAIMED difference or not. And ultimately that's what we have with golden ear audiophile claims. A person claims to be able to tell a $2000 interconnect and a $2 one and comments on how much better the $2000 one makes his music sound, but when he cannot see which cable is connected with an ABX switch, somehow that person suddenly cannot tell them apart! If they feel better owning that wire, well you or I could laugh, but that part is subjective in that placebo effects can be very real to the human experience, but it's not based on actual effects outside the brain's enjoyment of thinking it's better.

Encode a few albums in both ALAC and FLAC and compare, and get back to me. ALAC is slightly less efficient. ALAC files are larger than their FLAC counterparts, thus ALAC is worse performing. This isn't very complicated.

"Worse performing" and "less efficient" are not necessarily the same thing, which is why I questioned WTF you were talking about. If you had simply said less efficient, there would be no reply at all.

I have seen a lot of claims in the past when ALAC came out that it isn't actually "lossless" despite is name and hence the mention of a test that proves it is (i.e. encoded format in and out working, in this case DTS; you can prove it other ways like null tests, etc. as well).

And do you even understand what DTS is? If you did, you would understand IT IS LOSSY.

I'm not talking about and never was talking about DTS's lossy aspects, but rather the fact that a DTS signal encoded into ALAC (or FLAC for that matter) is a good test of whether or not they are truly lossless because if they lose ANY of the bits along the way, DTS will NOT decode PERIOD. The lossy nature of DTS has NOTHING to do with whether the codec will function if ALAC or FLAC were not truly lossless.

Anyway, regarding the various lossless codecs, you unsurprisingly completely missed the boat. ALAC is by all metrics inferior to FLAC and its only benefit is that it is supported in the Apple ecosystem.

You talk smack and like rolling eyes about missing a "boat", but your only point that I can see is that there's slightly better file size efficiency. However, this web page, oddly enough, seems to contradict you, showing FLAC at 58.7% and ALAC at 58.5% where the lower number is better according to their table; http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison ).

The reproduced output is still the same and FLAC is useless on Apple device. Given that this is an Apple forum, I think you can imagine most of us own Apple devices so it's hardly a minor thing. FLAC is 100% useless to me. Most of the other formats listed on that page aren't supported by many consumer products and quite frankly, hard drive space is cheap enough that even if they have those ratios backwards, there's not enough difference for me to care, especially given FLAC is useless here.

Anyway, you can go ahead and store music however you want; however, I want to (a) preserve the original in a perfect manner, and (b) eliminate any possibility of generational loss from re-encoding something in lossy format more than once.

My CD collection is preserved in ALAC for backup purposes. Given there are no audible differences with a sufficient bit-rate (256kbps for AAC is plenty) and the complete inability for iTunes to maintain two otherwise identical libraries (for mobile purposes), it is not used here period anymore but simply sits on a backup drive. Only my DTS music albums are encoded in ALAC in the primary library (for meta-tagging purposes more than anything else; WAV cannot carry meta-tags).

SACD and DVD-Audio cannot be ripped/encoded in a format that allows playback on consumer devices across a network to my knowledge so any such albums would need to remain on a disc format. Both formats are/were complete commercial flops and I attest most of their sonic superiority to the quality the recordings and masterings made for them, not the medium itself (i.e. most recordings don't come close to 16-bits dynamic range and anything beyond 20 is destroyed by thermal noise so it's recording headroom only and anything above 20kHz is inaudible to human hearing so those higher sampling rates are a gimmick and nothing else).

Blu-Ray seems like a good medium for uncompressed multi-channel music. The visuals are arbitrary, but the format is well supported (unlike SACD and DVD-Audio) and the tracks could easily be ripped and stored in whatever lossless container one would want for a networked solution. So while I appreciate my Alan Parsons Quad version of Dark Side of the Moon on DVD-Audio, I'd prefer to have it in a form that I could store and playback across my network. Even DTS CDs ripped and then played back with most current players tend not to play back without a "gap" regardless of any lossless compression or WAV format so I need to keep some of the discs handy regardless.
 
For several years, DVD-A has been rippable into .WAV or .MLP and/or converted to FLAC using DVD-A Explorer, and there is now a Foobar2000 plugin that will play direct from disc as well as play .MLP files. Unfortunately none of this is achievable on a Mac, but you can easily get your DVD-A to FLAC (and using MAX or XLD afterwards, into a sympathetic ALAC container). I don't have enough disk space on my Mac Pro to hold an ALAC conversion of my entire high res collection but I've done some tests; ALAC & iTunes support high-res and multichannel content. I just don't have a multichannel audio card for my Mac to actually enjoy it. The new mini is supposed to support multichannel over HDMI. And of course the iDevices won't support it (ATV converts everything to 48/16, for example).

SACD has been a tougher nut to crack. While people have done analog rips, the best up until now has been using modified players with three SPDIF outs to get 88.2 PCM out and record to FLAC (most combo players convert DSD to PCM internally and this is what the modded players spit out on SPDIF). However the day when we can rip and burn our own SACDs in DSD is very close. People are already playing SACD-Rs on a select few players.

Blu-Ray audio is easily ripped using EAC3TO.

Again unfortunately these tools don't exist on a Mac so you have to include a PC in your workflow.

I use HTPCs to listen to music and don't have an issue with gapless playback. I gave up on set top boxes a long time ago.
 
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And of course the iDevices won't support it (ATV converts everything to 48/16, for example).

ATV Gen1 passes 16/44.1 just fine (otherwise my DTS CDs albums would not decode and they pass as simple wav or ALAC files through the regular AppleTV interface). 16/48 must work as well or Dolby Digital 5.1 wouldn't output (as well as movie DTS) over the toslink cable to my receiver. I have an album with DTS music tracks that cause my receiver to display "DTS 24/96" on the front panel through XBMC (iTunes won't add it here so I cannot test the Apple player), so I'm assuming it's possible to use it at least through a hacked box with XBMC. My own music created with Logic Pro is stored here at 24/96 stereo WAV (which will add to iTunes, but I have no way to tell if my receiver is getting the signal as 24/96 or if it's being downconverted to 16/48 or 16/44.1 with either the Apple software or XBMC (some external DACs will display all the information but I don't have one like that)).

I've read from some sources that ATV Gen2 converts everything to 16/48 and so DTS CD playback doesn't work (I have not been able to determine offhand whether they will play back when hacked for XBMC or not). I've also read in other posts, however, that Apple claims full 24/96 compatibility with ATV2 even over Airplay. I have no way to verify this at the moment either way, though.
 
got the denon av-911 with the air-play upgrade. love it and look forward to using the ipad 2 app as a remote for it (once my ipad 2 finally arrives!). a little redundant considering i also have appletv 2, but not completely.
 
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