Desktop OS X Multi-Touch Framework Concept, Demo

[batchtaster]

However you swing it (he he), you've still only got one position where your wrists and fingers can be both productive and comfortable: resting almost horizontally with palms down on your work surface. Mouse, keyboard, tablet, or pad of paper, it's all the same. The tablet has to replace that spot where the mouse and keyboard would be—I don't see how they can coexist efficiently.

And you'd have to be looking down all the time. Multi-touch computers are an ergonomic nightmare, because your hands and vision have to be directed at the same point. Either your hands have to be raised up, which is tiring, or you have to be looking down at your hands which is problematic for your neck.

Many of the things we do on a daily basis don't require us to look at our hands, eg: driving, brushing teeth. Some do, eg: cutting food, but we don't sit in one spot, the one position, doing them for hours.

I'm not saying multi-touch isn't cool and useful, but it's only suitable for certain applications, like iPhone; it's certainly not suitable for general computing use or long-term device operation.

How many people really type? I think us touch typists are in quite a minority.

Based on....? They still teach typing. And even if you don't touch-type, that doesn't make things any better, because you'll be staring at the keyboard all day, since that's also where the screen is (ie: you won't get that look up, look down, look up, look down variance). While typing in general is not great for you, touch-typing is ergonomically better, because it doesn't involve unnatural body positions.

 

[Obi-Wan Kubrick]

It is only a matter of time before Apple introduces this for real. I think people are against the idea of multi-touch because they think it will replace the mouse and keyboard. It wont.

 

[notsofatjames]

i think the most important thing here is that this is implementable on a setup that costs next to nothing, and doesn't cost the thousands that Microsoft say 'Surface' is worth.

As for suitable consumer applications, who says this has to be a touch SCREEN interface. For example, you could have this set up so your coffee table is the touchable input, and then your TV on the wall the video output. It would be a fantastic way for Apple to present all forms of media, and in theory could be an extension to the Apple TV brand.
In the video on Gizmodo's site, the home made touch panel isn't a visual display, and you interact with what's shown on the screen.

This would also stop a lot of the ergonomic issues raised here, though not quite all of them.

 

[hhaeschen]

It is only a matter of time before Apple introduces this for real. I think people are against the idea of multi-touch because they think it will replace the mouse and keyboard. It wont.

It won't replace them all of a sudden but it will, eventually. By then people will see the advantages of such systems and question themselves how they could live for so many years without.
Again, the creativity of the average human being is very limited, which is why many dislike leap-frog changes at first but get used to them slowly and embrace them in the end.

 

[Rafox2]

You'll always need the keyboard. One needs the structure under their fingers in order type blindly. Hands are resting on the table while typing and my head can be in a natural position. Looking down all the time will not be confortable. Multi-touch is really cool but a mouse and keyboard is more precise and thus shall not be replaced. For now....

 

[k2spitfire88]

How about the iMac G4 design, when you can manoeuvre the screen into the position you want?

That could work. It could also be some slanted type of computer. Or, we could go with interactive walls and tv's, etc. I think, in the future, there will be no typing required, just voice recognition, and video conferencing, etc. We are starting to move towards a paperless society, and this is one of the many steps that are required to make it there.

 

[genshi]

And you'd have to be looking down all the time. Multi-touch computers are an ergonomic nightmare, because your hands and vision have to be directed at the same point.

As for suitable consumer applications, who says this has to be a touch SCREEN interface. For example, you could have this set up so your coffee table is the touchable input, and then your TV on the wall the video output.

These are both very good points. For certain applications at the moment, multi-touch is actually a very creative and useful way of computing in ways unachievable with the general computing of today (imagine a musician being able to control multiple sound generating objects on a screen with all 10 fingers as opposed to a single mouse.)

I do think multi-touch in everyday computing is not only inevitable, but is the natural evolution of computing. At the moment it has been geared more towards proprietary applications (music, photography, scientific research) which, for people like me, have been a boon and makes for a very exciting and promising (not to mention mind opening) time in computing. Being both a musician and a photographer myself, experiencing things like the reacTable have not only given us a glimpse of what is possible, but has spurred an onslaught of others to experiment and push the boundaries of the technology.

reacTable image:

I have been following projects such as Jeff Han's original research, the reacTable and many others (like the Audiopad) for quite awhile, long before the Microsoft Surface, so the news of something like this coming to a Mac (via either third part means or by Apple themselves) should not be surprising, and should be embraced as it will be the eventual main mode of interfacing for all of general computing... sooner than you may think.

In the mean time, some of us are able to enjoy these types of technology now for our own particular needs.

Audiopad images:

You'll always need the keyboard. One needs the structure under their fingers in order type blindly. Hands are resting on the table while typing and my head can be in a natural position. Looking down all the time will not be confortable. Multi-touch is really cool but a mouse and keyboard is more precise and thus shall not be replaced. For now....

If you haven't seen it already, I do recommend for everyone to watch Jeff Han's original demo (before the big multi-touch wall) of his research to see all of the applications and the possibilities multi-touch has with each of these applications, including typing.

 

[EagerDragon]

How about the iMac G4 design, when you can manoeuvre the screen into the position you want?

I love that system, you could position it in any way you wanted, I liked it low to the ground (desk), tilted upward, close to me and I looked down. The chin in the new model and the lack of movement, has kept me from getting an iMac.

To me that was the best ever.

 

[stevearm]

was first

 

[72930]

[Picture of Surface]

was first

No it wasn't, check out Jeff Han.

 

[decksnap]

was first

No.

Also, isn't that thing run with huge projectors behind the table?

 

[72930]

However you swing it (he he), you've still only got one position where your wrists and fingers can be both productive and comfortable: resting almost horizontally with palms down on your work surface. Mouse, keyboard, tablet, or pad of paper, it's all the same. The tablet has to replace that spot where the mouse and keyboard would be—I don't see how they can coexist efficiently.

I think that the perfect position would be at an angle, like Jeff Han had at his TED presentation: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65

 

[genshi]

was first

No it wasn't, check out Jeff Han.

I think that the perfect position would be at an angle, like Jeff Han had at his TED presentation: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/65

Wow, did you guys just completely miss my little post directly above your posts referencing Jeff Han and how that was before the Surface and that there are many other projects before that as well (I even included pictures and links)!?

Here it all is again for those with ADD:

And you'd have to be looking down all the time. Multi-touch computers are an ergonomic nightmare, because your hands and vision have to be directed at the same point.

As for suitable consumer applications, who says this has to be a touch SCREEN interface. For example, you could have this set up so your coffee table is the touchable input, and then your TV on the wall the video output.

These are both very good points. For certain applications at the moment, multi-touch is actually a very creative and useful way of computing in ways unachievable with the general computing of today (imagine a musician being able to control multiple sound generating objects on a screen with all 10 fingers as opposed to a single mouse.)

I do think multi-touch in everyday computing is not only inevitable, but is the natural evolution of computing. At the moment it has been geared more towards proprietary applications (music, photography, scientific research) which, for people like me, have been boon and makes it a very exciting and promising (not to mention mind opening) time in computing. Being both a musician and a photographer myself, experiencing things like the reacTable have not only given us a glimpse of what is possible, but has spurred an onslaught of others to experiment and push the boundaries of the technology.

reacTable image:

I have been following projects such as Jeff Han's original research, the reacTable and many others (like the Audiopad) for quite awhile, long before the Microsoft Surface, so the news of something like this coming to a Mac (via either third part means or by Apple themselves) should not be surprising, and should be embraced as it will be the eventual main mode of interfacing for all of general computing... sooner than you may think.

In the mean time, some of us are able to enjoy these types of technology now for our own particular needs.

Audiopad images:

You'll always need the keyboard. One needs the structure under their fingers in order type blindly. Hands are resting on the table while typing and my head can be in a natural position. Looking down all the time will not be confortable. Multi-touch is really cool but a mouse and keyboard is more precise and thus shall not be replaced. For now....

If you haven't seen it already, I do recommend for everyone to watch Jeff Han's original demo (before the big multi-touch wall) of his research to see all of the applications and the possibilities multi-touch has with each of these applications, including typing.

 

[uaaerospace]

I'm a bit tired of people noting problems as if no one has thought about them before.

The problems should continue to be mentioned until solutions are presented. Just because something is "cool" doesn't make it a good idea. Realizing the shortcomings and finding solutions make a good idea.

So far, I don't think ANYONE will agree that typing on a flat surface is half as efficient as typing on a regular keyboard. There is no feedback, so you don't really know if a press registered or not. Plus, how do you know you even hit the key? It's been said before, but I'll say it again. Typing on something similar to the iPhone (but full sized) is ok for one-fingered typists, however it will not work well for people who can actually type.

 

[N10248]

was first

they may have been first but under that table is still...

 

[Trip.Tucker]

Another desktop mutitouch demo that fails totally to demonstrate anything actually useful.

Also, I shudder at the thought of Flash becoming an application development framework (already happening, with Adobe's online Photoshop and word processor) - you can kiss goodbye all those years of interoperability and unified look and feel, keyboard shortcuts, cut 'n' paste, drag 'n' drop, unified spell checking, and everything else that we take for granted on Mac OS X.

I tried to test out the Flash based word processor yesterday - I got as far as the registration screen, and gave up when I realised that the scroll box that contains the Ts&Cs didn't respond to my scroll wheel, and had a non-standard scroller too. Not a good start.

I really wish Flash rolled over and died. It's an abomination. Here's hoping that Apple dusts down WebObjects and turns it into .Net-Cocoa or something. Anything to save us from a future of flash UIs....

I have to agree, Flash needs to be a flash in the pan. Horrible piece of work.

 

[Trip.Tucker]

The public beta of Flash Player 10 was just released yesterday. One thing it offers is "[e]asily transform and animate any display object through 3D space while retaining full interactivity." Now that is bad-ass.

labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/

...no. Just more ass.

 

[fewgraphik]

the future is here... soon ?

Me I simply think about that praticaly : the future is there, just hope the reactivity will be there on the final apple software patent N° 212012145662 call surely iTouch 1.0 ? on new cinema multitouch displays ;-) ??? IMO this is why no change on the line for a while.

Can't wait to work on photoshop, motion, particleillusion and protools with that !

@ Trip.Tucker
sounds like interfaces will change radicaly soon, but the keyboard is here to stay, almost for a while. my 5 years old kid will probably never use one in a couple of years.

things like this make me happy, quand-même, but make me older.

 

[fewgraphik]

Also, I shudder at the thought of Flash becoming an application development framework.

I really wish Flash rolled over and died. It's an abomination. Here's hoping that Apple dusts down WebObjects and turns it into .Net-Cocoa or something. Anything to save us from a future of flash UIs....

I use flash. It's a popular vector based graphic software run by actionscript and really powerful. It means that is here to stay. the AIR concept by Adobe is somewhere to clarify all the standards for the future to evitate full flash sites.

 

[inkswamp]

was first

I don't consider anyone "first" unless the product is commercially available. So, no Microsoft Surface wasn't first with multitouch. That's typical MS. They like to hype things they haven't even completed yet.

People bitch about Apple's secrecy, but one nice side-effect is that when Steve Jobs is talking about a product on-stage, you know it's actually close to shipping.

 

[Project]

People need to expand their horizons a little.

This kind of stuff is clearly the future of embedded computing.

 

[gmoney550]

Wow it's saturday and there hasn't been a single rumor!

 

[Intarweb]

Apple products always have been very useful especially for creative people, be it professional or consumer.

The MacbookAir says hello! That's the most useless POS Apple has released since Newton. Nobody in their right mind would buy that unless they are fanbots or mentally deranged. Yes, spend more money for LESS computer than a Macbook. Airamfail.

 

[bretm]

Wow it's saturday and there hasn't been a single rumor!

I think you'll notice MR rarely posts on weekends. Give Arn a couple days off.

 

[k2spitfire88]

I think you'll notice MR rarely posts on weekends. Give Arn a couple days off.

Either that, or we get odd things that entertain us that come up as rumors. Or even better-we are out doing things through out the weekend, so we dont check MR. I guess I don't fall into that category though