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Desktop OS X Multi-Touch Framework Concept, Demo
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They have been shipping the Mighty Mouse with all iMacs & Mac Pros for awhile now, last I checked that thing had four buttons (right, left, sides & scroll) and a multi-directional scroll function
Whatever man. You can be the first and only one to purchase this crap. I'm not sure if I'm the only one, but this seems pretty stupid to me.
Wel guys think your drifting off the point here!
These guys showed you one hell of a piece of work!
**applause**
You might like it or you might not. But how expensive is a cardboard box web cam and a piece of paper with some sticky tape?
and we can all go play with it at home. im sure going to try it might even be fun so Come on don't be so negative have you tryed it.
now for some personal experience
I work with touch screens every day and well i can tell you it suck's
We use them to control the printing presses. And my god how many times i wished for a mouse. Problem is that well your fingers are not that accurate when your pointing at some thing. Second ergonomics its a nightmare.
So I dont think there will be a touch screen but will be an interface tablet.
because some stuff thats works on the mac books is real cool and easy to use and makes you work faster.
Back to the point i think we will see more of this stuff external usb touch sensitive stuff and with that there will be great apps.
I do have confidence that this tech is a break though for embedded systems.giving you more control no more buttons, on screen keyboards ect
a single monitor/pc that does it all.
These guys showed you one hell of a piece of work!
**applause**
You might like it or you might not. But how expensive is a cardboard box web cam and a piece of paper with some sticky tape?
and we can all go play with it at home. im sure going to try it might even be fun so Come on don't be so negative have you tryed it. now for some personal experience
I work with touch screens every day and well i can tell you it suck's
We use them to control the printing presses. And my god how many times i wished for a mouse. Problem is that well your fingers are not that accurate when your pointing at some thing. Second ergonomics its a nightmare.
So I dont think there will be a touch screen but will be an interface tablet.
because some stuff thats works on the mac books is real cool and easy to use and makes you work faster.
Back to the point i think we will see more of this stuff external usb touch sensitive stuff and with that there will be great apps.
I do have confidence that this tech is a break though for embedded systems.giving you more control no more buttons, on screen keyboards ect
a single monitor/pc that does it all.
I am not so sure. Doug Englebart introduced a 5-key chordset at the same demo where he introduced the mouse,
http://kobnet.net/misc/www.cedmagic.com/history/first-computer-mouse.html
The mouse caught on but the chordset did not.
Today, with multitouch, haptics, etc, we have the technology to make it possible to (feel/touch) chord-type with one hand while simultaneously pointing, selecting, multitouch manipulating with the other. This would be done on a horizontal, flat, surface-- while looking looking elsewhere (presumably at a virtical display).
Who's to say that, in a few years, touch typing won't be taught on a chordset multitouch flat surface (it doesn't necessarily need to be vertical or a screen).
"Engelbart proved that trained typists, after just a few hours of training, could perform more efficiently using a chord keyboard than a conventional QWERTY keyboard."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard
The advantages of a multitouch surface are many:
1) no moving parts
2) sealed, hardened, environment resistant to moisture (ever spilled a Dr. Pepper on your QWERTY?).
3) customizable to user and application.
4) potential lower-cost mass production than QWERTY kbs.
5) new applications
For the latter, think of an instrument (guitar, piano) fretboard and/or keyboard where the artist can perform attack (hammering on, pulling off, plucking), tremolo & vibrato, and other effects-- simply by (multitouch) massaging/pinching virtual strings or keys. At the same time, another surface could be totally customized to mix and equalize the music from the instruments.
And there are even more disadvantages...
An experiment. Take a book (say Hillegass' Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X). Sit holding the book out in front of you with both hands with arms fully extended. Do this for 30 minutes. You now know what using a touch display all day is going to be like.
Multitouch technology does have its applications (the iPhone/Touch are a practical example of the technology - it works because it is the most effective way to control a small portable device without cluttering things up with mice, keyboards, or a stylus). For a desktop of notebook it if far less compelling because you have the keyboard/mouse/touchpad that is the result of many years of evolution. Keyboard input is much faster than a mouse or touch screen ever will be for most practical applications.
Ahh...but, you are confusing multitouch surface and multitouch display.
If you read my post, you would know that I made the distinction:
Don't you love quoting yourself?
For some apps it makes sense to have separate surfaces for data entry/selection and display. I think a kb/mouse & separate display will evolve to a multitouch surface & separate display.
For other apps (light table, equalizer, navigation, etc.), a combo multitouch surface for entry/display makes sense.
With economies of mass production, I suspect that it will make sense to make a combo device that can be used for both types of apps-- a flat horizontal surface used for key/mouse entry to be shown on a separate display. As a user option, this flat entry surface can function as a display, too.
Succinctly, a multitouch surface can be:
1) a replacement for traditional kb & mouse
2) an alternative entry and display device
3) both
I touch type fairly successfully on my iPhone (I look at what I'm typing and not the keyboard), I don't see how it would be any different with a full sized keyboard. Apple already has the software to correct minor mistakes in the iPhone (I still don't know why it isn't in Leopard).
A MacBook with a second, multitouch screen instead of keyboard and trackpad would be a dream. The things you could do with it are fathomless.
All you nay-sayers are really rather depressing. You can't even think beyond the box of touching your current screen instead of having a second one to act as your mouse and keyboard (but be capable of much more). Heck, you could still have your mouse (and external keyboard if you must).
The iPhone has demonstrated that mutlitouch interfaces can work wonderfully, and are a million times more flexible than a M&K. They are the future.
A MacBook with a second, multitouch screen instead of keyboard and trackpad would be a dream. The things you could do with it are fathomless.
All you nay-sayers are really rather depressing. You can't even think beyond the box of touching your current screen instead of having a second one to act as your mouse and keyboard (but be capable of much more). Heck, you could still have your mouse (and external keyboard if you must).
The iPhone has demonstrated that mutlitouch interfaces can work wonderfully, and are a million times more flexible than a M&K. They are the future.
What!? Are you kidding? You can't be that daft, seriously.
I swear, some of you people really have absolutely no vision, foresight or even the slightest shred of imagination (not to mention even common sense) to be able to see the usefulness and possibilities of a technology such as this can bring. Instead, you want to immediately dismiss it because it threatens your precious little comfort zone when in reality you fear it may actually reveal your own inadequacies. (but given the chance, may actually help you, but unfortunately some of you are too dim to realize that.)
And to a previous poster who claimed "touch screens suck" because he works on one at a printing press or whatever, that's really comparing Apples to Oranges. That's like someone offering you a chance to drive a Ferrari over your horse and you saying "No thanks, I tried using those car things. My work makes me drive a Yugo and it's so slow and weak, I just couldn't recommend anyone ever using any car." WTF!?! That's what you people all sound like! The same people that dismissed the iPhone before it came out because they said "Touch screen PDAs have been around for years and they suck" well it's NOT even close to the same thing as we now know.
<SLAP> WAKE UP PEOPLE! And get out of your tiny, safe bubbles you've created around yourselves! There's more to the world out there than what you think you know...
ARRGH! Re-reading this, your statement pissed me off so much in it's ignorance I just had to post a second reply to it. Heres my rebuttal (equivalent to your ignorance):
An experiment. Take your 10 fingers and dip them in a pot of boiling water. Do this for 30 minutes. You now know what using a keyboard all day is going to be like.
An experiment. Take your 10 fingers and dip them in a pot of boiling water. Do this for 30 minutes. You now know what using a keyboard all day is going to be like.
He's right though. Touch screens can be extremely dangerous. Why, I once knew a touch screen that was so mean, it shot a man just to watch him die.
Well said!
I have portables, iPhones, iPods, and Macs (Minis and iMacs) and the latest 2 generations of mice and kbs.
When I go from the iPhone to anything else, I feel as if something's missing. I want to reach up to the display and flick or pinch that list, space, window, movie, image, whatever-- to just do what I want to do. I am constrained by the lack of multitouch... M&K just get in the way for these operations.
I want both!
If the horizontal multitouch surface (replacing the M&K) is another display... all the better-- I can customize it to my preferences (and maybe even to chordset touch typing).
If the vertical display surface is multitouch, then I can control it directly when it makes sense.
The mind boggles when you begin to think of some of the applications.
1) 2 multitouch/entry/display surfaces in portables & desktops
2) 1 multitouch/entry/display surface as a tablet, iPhone, iPod, Universal Remote, gaming device, etc.
3) multiple multitouch/entry/display surfaces as a n-dimensional video wall
4) multiple multitouch/entry/display surfaces as a customizable n-dimensional control panel
...and that's just for starters
lol, thanks for that.
Now this mean touch screen you know, was it wearing black? Did this take place in Reno?
Mmmm....maybe unrelated, but, all the recent talk about tablets, multitouch display/entry surfaces, WWDC...
...how long has it been since Apple refreshed its standalone displays?
...how long has it been since Apple refreshed its standalone displays?
Well, I have to agree with you and on the other han have to disagree with you. Yes, interfaces will change drastically in the near future. Will Multitouch be a special part of that? You bet.
OTOH there is the next major step to take. Full 3D-displays will be the future. There are current sytems with 1024*768 resolution in development. 10 years back in the past this was the normal 2D resolution, so no need for crying out.
So question is: Who will bring both worlds together first?
Pseudo 3D comes first. Don the IR goggles folks. Johhny's hacks are coming mainstream
Prediction - The multi-touch OS mashed up with mainstream OS X.
If you look at the Modbook reviews - it sorely misses out by not having Multi-touch. In some shape or form - from a swivelling screen on a laptop converting a laptop to a tablet (with hardened screen to do multi-touch on/ use a yucky stylus on), through to using iPhones as slaved UI devices, much as we use wireless mice today.
Whilst Microsoft's Surface has gone vertical, Apple's multi-touch could "go ballistic" if they pushed it. They took a gamble with the iPhone. Hope they take more...
I think a key product in getting MT on desktops will be:
Imagine replacing the ball on your mighty mouse with a little touchpad. Handy! No more lurching around crazily, no more intermittent & sporadic behavior. Just smooth, 2.5 axis control. Make the touchpad multitouch, and increase its size, and suddenly who needs click buttons? Just tap your fingertips. Taking it a step further, why have to slide the thing around on your desktop at all?
I think the evolution will jump quickly to a simple keyboard with a little multi-touchpad, say a 5x7 or so (though not necessarily a touchscreen) off to one side, like the ten-key pad is. Probably make the whole thing modular, so it could be plugged into either side for lefties & righties, or adjusted for angle, due to the whole console getting a bit wide. You'd still be looking unobstructed at your nice big clear and color-accurate monitor, and your ergonomics wouldn't be any different than they currently are.
This could be used with a desktop system to great advantage. Not only as a mouse replacement for a lot of people, but for the oh, three or four of us out there that do more with our computers than email and surf the web, having the greater Cad, Photoshop, Illustrator, FCS, Logic functionality handy at your fingertips would be invaluable.
Dragging a finger around would constitute cursor movement (probably something like a little ripple ring for each finger) and mouse-over's, and a click would require you to actually tap or double-tap on the screen.
A good feature would probably be to provide an option for scaling the work area around wherever the cursor is at, or absolute coordinates, for increased accuracy when needed. And probably adjustable vector smoothing for cursor motions.
I design bicycles. ...& sometimes electronic gizmo's, that I have no way of ever building.
Imagine replacing the ball on your mighty mouse with a little touchpad. Handy! No more lurching around crazily, no more intermittent & sporadic behavior. Just smooth, 2.5 axis control. Make the touchpad multitouch, and increase its size, and suddenly who needs click buttons? Just tap your fingertips. Taking it a step further, why have to slide the thing around on your desktop at all?
I think the evolution will jump quickly to a simple keyboard with a little multi-touchpad, say a 5x7 or so (though not necessarily a touchscreen) off to one side, like the ten-key pad is. Probably make the whole thing modular, so it could be plugged into either side for lefties & righties, or adjusted for angle, due to the whole console getting a bit wide. You'd still be looking unobstructed at your nice big clear and color-accurate monitor, and your ergonomics wouldn't be any different than they currently are.
This could be used with a desktop system to great advantage. Not only as a mouse replacement for a lot of people, but for the oh, three or four of us out there that do more with our computers than email and surf the web, having the greater Cad, Photoshop, Illustrator, FCS, Logic functionality handy at your fingertips would be invaluable.
Dragging a finger around would constitute cursor movement (probably something like a little ripple ring for each finger) and mouse-over's, and a click would require you to actually tap or double-tap on the screen.
A good feature would probably be to provide an option for scaling the work area around wherever the cursor is at, or absolute coordinates, for increased accuracy when needed. And probably adjustable vector smoothing for cursor motions.
I design bicycles. ...& sometimes electronic gizmo's, that I have no way of ever building.
This is the URL of the touchlib project where you can download the sources for the library and the demos:
http://nuigroup.com/touchlib
http://nuigroup.com/touchlib
Logically, I agree with the above.
But, for two things:
1) Apple needs to press its MT advantage while it has a lead.
2) We're dealin' with SJ here... Steve doesn't evolve things, he revolutionizes them.
You mean this?
(shout to kontheur for the mockup)
Sounds like we have +2 people to the multi touch pad concept. Bear in mind the iPhone could be slaved to do this possibly (you'd need a v slim dock to stabilise it though)
Maybe as a wireless multi-touch mousepad? I think the demo shows it doesn't have to be high tech to work. webcam + cardboard box upwards...
Attachments
Sorry to be so late in replying to your objections, but taking them one by one:
I really don't think it's a matter of those who touch type versus those who text/chat. The whole multi-touch/touch screen versus keyboard mouse issue is an interface issue, one which if it is to be successful will have to deal seriously with people who want to do both. Apple is not going to produce some cut down touch screen interface/operating system for people who chat and another for those who can type. Multi-touch offers a challenge to the HIG - I am not saying that multi-touch may not in some future incarnation be able to replace keyboard and mouse combo but just that a complete implementation of multi-touch system wide is still a way off.
As for the screen being vertical - if you work in type, graphics or video - ie most commercial applications for a computer - then a vertical or near vertical screen is just more or less obligatory, for practical as well as health/ergonomic reasons. There may be horizontal table-based applications/uses, but they are not the kinds of uses that most people use most computers for most of the time. Which is one of the reasons why Surface, despite is whizzy graphics, is still in an R and D lab and not in people's houses or offices.
You are right about the iPhone - I am not saying that there aren't really great things abut multi-touch and its implementation in the iPhone, but the key point here is that the iPhone is a completely different interface to the standard Mac interface, and it will be a fairly big paradigm shift for people to go from the standard Mac keyboard/mouse interface to a wholly touch-screen interface.
As to your last comment - I certainly don't think that no one has thought of the points I was making before - but my response was to a number of people in these threads who seem to think that a fully multi touch OS X is (a) just around the corner and (b) will just require a slight revision of Leopard. It isn't, and it won't. When Apple do incorporate full multi-touch I am sure it will be awesome, but it won't be much like the interface we are using now.
Just because typing is still taught doesn't mean a lot of people type a lot.
It's not about horizontal or vertical. There's a range of 90 degrees that you completely missed. Think drafting table. I don't think horizontal or vertical are the best options. Avid even showed off a slanted editing station last year.
The contemporary thinking on ergonomics is that top edge of the screen be at eye level, so you're actually looking down at least a bit anyway.
I don't think it's a matter of providing two completely different interfaces, but Apple did do away with the keypad on the iphone. I've not seen a big test that showed iphone "typists" can keep up with users of treo and BB devices with tactile keyboards.