Desperate trying to install OS X in iMac G4

[s¡juandelarocha]

Hi!

My father owns a beautiful iMac G4 700Mhz with 256Mb RAM plus 128Mb expansion (that's the RAM next to the wifi pcmcia right?). It used to work flawlessly under OS X Tiger and my father used to work with an old version of Photoshop with nice results. However, some days ago it didn't boot up; and old apple logo (computer smiling) stayed still when booting and nothing happened. So I decided to format everything using the original CDs and now the G4 is alive with OS 9.2.

The point is that 9.2 seems too old but I'm not able to install Tiger. I have tried making a bootable USB and trying all kind of openfirmware codes to load it, but I always end up with a message "Load-side is too small". It's funny though that when I initiate the mac with 9.2 I can see the USB mounted, access to it and launch the installer. I get the MAC OSX window that says: "press here to restart and initiate installation" but then I get something like:

"startup disk was unable to select the install CD as the startup disk (-2)"

TSo then I thought the problem could be the so-called "G4 cannot boot using UBS". And I managed to get a 4CD set of Lion. I insert the CD1, initiate the system, and either pressing C when launching or ALT, it wont recognise it. Once again, if I initiate with 9.2, I can see the content of the CD in the desktop, launch it, and once again access to the window where it says: "press here to restart and initiate installation". But then again, I get:


"startup disk was unable to select the install CD as the startup disk (-2)"

I should have read dozens of posts, blogs, forums but nothing seems to work. And it's a shame because it's a beautiful 15-year old mac that despite its old specs, it works great and fits perfect my fathers necessity.

So gurus, do you have any idea something else that I could try with? I've got a mac book air at home, but not a firewire CD/DVD unit or a another MAC with CD unit to try to launch the installation process through it...

Thanks!

 

[mp2017]

The latest version of OS X you can use on this model is Tiger (10.4.11). Leopard, at least that's what I assume you meant when you wrote "Lion", will not install. My recommendation would be to obtain a set of Tiger discs and install via the optical drive.

 

[z970]

If you'd like a browser for OS 9 as a sort of stopgap or something just before you do this, check out Classila. It's by the same guy who made TenFourFox, was last updated in 2014, and uses mobile versions of sites for better browsing experiences.

Hope I helped.

EDIT: I'm sorry. Because a mod intervened, this post makes no sense.

Therefore, please disregard it. Thank you.

 

[mikzn]

don't need to make a USB installer - just insert the tiger disc and install from there.

Not sure you can install from a USB connection - if the drive you have (with the tiger copy? disc image?) has firewire you can install from target disc mode.

 

[eyoungren]

I'm wondering if OP is not trying to install from a USB connected optical drive instead of the main optical drive.

If so, that would explain the startup disk errors and his USB comment.

 

[AphoticD]

I have seen this OF error on a Sawtooth G4 with an original 6x DVD-ROM drive when trying to boot from a few different Tiger DVDs, whereas the Panther CD boots fine.

To get around this I used an external Firewire DVD-RW drive to boot the Tiger DVD and it is all happy.

I’m wondering if you could put the Tiger DVD or CD1 in another Mac connected to the iMac via Firewire, boot the other Mac into Target Disk Mode. Next hold down option while booting the iMac and select the Tiger installer disc.

 

[weckart]

Has one of the RAM sticks failed? Tiger officially requires 256MB, so if you are down to 128MB...

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Thanks everybody for the answers. Feels good to see that there's a community alive still using PPCs!

Taking a read of my initial post I realize I used the term Lion, but I was speaking of Tiger. So what I tried to install using a set of 4 CDs is Tiger. But as I told you, I can't boot from it using the original CD unit of G4 (it doesn't appear when pressing ALT or C) nor I can't launch the installer once I'm logged in at Mac 9.2.

Using another MAC to take advantage of its CD unit is not an option 'cause my macbook air has not a CD unit and I can't managed to get a MAC with CD...

Regarding the RAM, I algo thought that could be the reason, but I opened the G4 and took out the RAM next to the wifi card and put it back on again. Then I initiated the system and checked that RAM is 512 Mb (which corrects my initial post where i said it has 256+128 and is actually 256+256.)

Any clue?

 

[AphoticD]

I would try to keep plugging away at the USB boot. One thing I have found is that any USB thumb drives marked as USB3 won’t work. I have had much better luck with older USB2 generation drives. A 4GB or 8GB would be preferable.

I often refer back to this page for the USB boot commands and useful Open Firmware tricks because this is what I used to make it work;
https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...my-1-5-ghz-powerbook-g4-boot-from-a-usb-stick

 

[weckart]

The only other thing apart from trying USB is to repartition your hard drive and create an extra volume to hold Tiger CD1. Locate a copy of Apple Software Restore v2.2.5 or better for MacOS9 and restore the CD to that. You can select that volume via StartupDisk and get your installation rolling. Hopefully, Tiger should be able to see CD2 etc in the tray once your installation has got under way.

Not tried this before but hope that ASR leaves a bootable volume.

 

[mp2017]

Thanks everybody for the answers. Feels good to see that there's a community alive still using PPCs!

Taking a read of my initial post I realize I used the term Lion, but I was speaking of Tiger. So what I tried to install using a set of 4 CDs is Tiger. But as I told you, I can't boot from it using the original CD unit of G4 (it doesn't appear when pressing ALT or C) nor I can't launch the installer once I'm logged in at Mac 9.2.

Using another MAC to take advantage of its CD unit is not an option 'cause my macbook air has not a CD unit and I can't managed to get a MAC with CD...

Regarding the RAM, I algo thought that could be the reason, but I opened the G4 and took out the RAM next to the wifi card and put it back on again. Then I initiated the system and checked that RAM is 512 Mb (which corrects my initial post where i said it has 256+128 and is actually 256+256.)

Any clue?

Installing OS X from CD is one of the easiest ways to install the OS. If you're unable to do so then there are only a few things which could be preventing you from installing:

• A failing optical drive. It appears the drive is OK because you were able to use it to install OS 9. However if the drive is marginal it may have issues with burned media. Was the OS 9 media original media?
• Incorrect version of the OS. All retail PPC versions of Tiger are fully supported on this model. Unless you are attempting to use the x86 version of Tiger this should not be a problem. Verify you have the PPC version.
• You are not correctly burning the image files. Where did you obtain the disc images? What format are they in (what is the extension)? How (what program / steps) are you burning the images to disc?

If you're experiencing issues with installing from optical media it's my opinion trying to do it through USB is going to be even more of a challenge. IMO the only reason for doing so is due to a failure of the optical drive.

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

The only other thing apart from trying USB is to repartition your hard drive and create an extra volume to hold Tiger CD1. Locate a copy of Apple Software Restore v2.2.5 or better for MacOS9 and restore the CD to that. You can select that volume via StartupDisk and get your installation rolling. Hopefully, Tiger should be able to see CD2 etc in the tray once your installation has got under way.

Interesting, I will try this. How can I run the Apple Software Restore? Is in one of the 3 CDs of MacOS 9.2? I remember there are two more CDs, one called something like "tools and applications" and another one titled basically "MacOS 9.2" -I bet this could be the one.

Installing OS X from CD is one of the easiest ways to install the OS. If you're unable to do so then there are only a few things which could be preventing you from installing:

• A failing optical drive. It appears the drive is OK because you were able to use it to install OS 9. However if the drive is marginal it may have issues with burned media. Was the OS 9 media original media?
• Incorrect version of the OS. All retail PPC versions of Tiger are fully supported on this model. Unless you are attempting to use the x86 version of Tiger this should not be a problem. Verify you have the PPC version.
• You are not correctly burning the image files. Where did you obtain the disc images? What format are they in (what is the extension)? How (what program / steps) are you burning the images to disc?

If you're experiencing issues with installing from optical media it's my opinion trying to do it through USB is going to be even more of a challenge. IMO the only reason for doing so is due to a failure of the optical drive.

Yeah, the optical drive definitely works fine. Yes, MacOS 9.2 CDs are original. On the other hand, Tiger CDs nor Tiger USB are original copies, but I confirm they are the PPC versions. Regarding the image burning, I used PowerISO in a PC with Windows XP. I know using windows to burn DMG images could sound weird, but it was the only PC I had with an CD unit. Regarding the USB, I burnt the image using my MacBookAir.

 

[weckart]

Apple Software Restore is usually found on classic MacOS restore disks. There was a thread on MacOS9lives the other year or so ago when they were tweaking it to accept >4GB images.

http://macos9lives.com/smforum/index.php/topic,1680.0.html

It might be a good place to start reading and see if it is something for you.

 

[mp2017]

Yeah, the optical drive definitely works fine. Yes, MacOS 9.2 CDs are original. On the other hand, Tiger CDs nor Tiger USB are original copies, but I confirm they are the PPC versions. Regarding the image burning, I used PowerISO in a PC with Windows XP. I know using windows to burn DMG images could sound weird, but it was the only PC I had with an CD unit. Regarding the USB, I burnt the image using my MacBookAir.

When you insert the Tiger CD 1 in MacOS 9.2 what is displayed on the desktop. Does it look like the following:

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

When you insert the Tiger CD 1 in MacOS 9.2 what is displayed on the desktop. Does it look like the following:

View attachment 725936

Both Mac OS 9.2 and Mac OSX (Tiger) show those folders and .app files when I browse them -with mac os 9.2 logged in.

 

[mp2017]

Both Mac OS 9.2 and Mac OSX (Tiger) show those folders and .app files when I browse them -with mac os 9.2 logged in.

I attempted to run the Tiger installer from OS 9.2.2 and received the same error message you mentioned in your OP. I then attempted to manually set the startup disk through the control panel and was unable to select it (it was listed but grayed out). Finally I restarted the system holding down the option (alt) key and received the following:

I was able to select the "Mac OS Install Disc 1", click the arrow, and OS X Tiger booted to the installer.

Curious I grabbed a copy of Panther and was able to use the installer through OS 9.2.2 to select the startup disc, restart the computer, and the installer started. I also repeated, with the same results as Panther, booting OS X 10.1.4.

Configuration: iBook G3, CD-ROM drive, OS 9.2.2.
Tiger Discs: Four CDs which are burned DMG images. Unfortunately this systems doesn't have a DVD drive so I am unable to try my original Tiger DVD.
Panther Discs: Original CDs
OS X 10.1.4: Single CD burned from a DMG image.

For some reason I am unable to select Tiger as the boot disc in OS 9.2.2. I'm unsure if this is because they're not original media.

I know you mentioned holding down the option (alt) key in one of your previous messages. Did you receive the same, or similar, screen when you did so?

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Thanks for all your tests mp2017.

Exactly, when trying to set the boot preference in Mac OS 9.2 (configuration->startup) and with Mac OS X Tiger CD 1 at the CD Unit, I was unable to select the CD unit to be booted up after restarting.

Of course I tried many times to press alt key as well as "C" but nothing happened. With alt key I could only see the HD option.

I also tried to boot up from a DVD in which I fired the Tiger.dmg (PPC version of course) that I used to create a USB. However, the DVD wasn't recognize nor at the booting process nor once Mac OS 9.2 was initiated at the desktop. This made me think about if my CD unit is just CD or also DVD...

 

[mp2017]

If the Tiger disc is not appearing when using the option key then perhaps the media wasn't created correctly. Have you attempted to burn a second disc? You may want to try using a lower burn speed (maybe 4x) when doing so. Another thought is to check the firmware to see if it may be the issue (I don't know much about this so maybe someone else can chime in). Another thought is to try obtaining the images (I'd focus on just disc 1 for now) again or from another source or try an older version of OS X (such as Panther).

Other than that I'm pretty much out of ideas.

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Maybe I should try to burn it at different speed -didn't remember the old days of random troubles with burnt cds...

Regarding the version of Tiger, there isn't many options...

However, I kept reading about the problem and found a post shed some light upon it:

1) No USB disc seen when doing dev usb0 ls or dev usb1 ls
USB drives aren't great at being 100% compatible with USB spec, so you run into all sorts of problems with older computers (PC, Mac, Sparcstations, etc). I had to go through nine different USB thumb drives before I found one that was both recognized (4 of 9 were never seen) and booted all the way (4 of 5 which were recognized never booted correctly).

2) Prohibited symbol
I tried to write the bootable image using an El Capitan machine. The Disk Utility changed from Yosemite and older, and using the "partition" option frequently makes unbootable USB drives. You have to use "Erase" instead to get a working bootable drive to write your disc image to.

3) Eternal loading
Apparently the install CDs don't work if your date resets. When you load OpenFirmware it tells you the current date. When the date is the system default (end of the year, 1969) the boot scripts don't create the /tmp folder correctly, and the installer hangs before it ever opens because it runs out of space.

If you run into an eternal load time, make sure the date is correct. In Open-firmware you set the date using:
decimal dev rtc seconds minutes hours day month year set-time
so for example:
decimal dev rtc 10 24 16 16 11 2015 set-time
sets the date to Nov 16, 2015, 4:24 pm

4) grey screen, nothing visible
The original Tiger install disc doesn't have drivers for the latest ibook or powerbook g4. Buying a retail DVD is a gamble. I bought three and all of them ended up being the original release. You can find images for the 10.4.6 DVD on PowerPC abandonware sites, and it seems to have drivers for all of the g4 models built into them.

I don't have access right now to the G4 because it's at countryside's home, but I do remember I had to change the internal battery (3,6V 1200mah, 1/2AA) and so the time at OpenFirmware was 1904. Maybe that is blocking to boot from the CD?

 

[mp2017]

I don't have access right now to the G4 because it's at countryside's home, but I do remember I had to change the internal battery (3,6V 1200mah, 1/2AA) and so the time at OpenFirmware was 1904. Maybe that is blocking to boot from the CD?

I just set the date of my iBook G3 to 12/31/1904 and it did not prevent the computer from recognizing the Tiger CD as a valid boot device (choosing the boot device by holding down the option key). I did not try to boot it because your issue is the CD isn't even given as a boot option when you hold down the option (alt) key.

IMO the problem is likely a bad source image, the media wasn't created correctly, or a marginal optical drive. Perhaps I can download a trial copy of Power ISO to see if burning on a Windows based system has any impact.

 

[z970]

I tried to write the bootable image using an El Capitan machine. The Disk Utility changed from Yosemite and older, and using the "partition" option frequently makes unbootable USB drives. You have to use "Erase" instead to get a working bootable drive to write your disc image to.

Ah man, El Cap+ Disk Utility is so bad though, isn't it?

First, they take away the skeumorphic aesthetic, then they take away Disk Utility, and then they take away the OS X name and the ability to redownload from your Mac App Store purchases. And don't even get me started on the MacBook Dongle Pro. Tim thinks less is more! Less is less! Damn you, Tim! Damn you!

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

I just set the date of my iBook G3 to 12/31/1904 and it did not prevent the computer from recognizing the Tiger CD as a valid boot device (choosing the boot device by holding down the option key). I did not try to boot it because your issue is the CD isn't even given as a boot option when you hold down the option (alt) key.

IMO the problem is likely a bad source image, the media wasn't created correctly, or a marginal optical drive. Perhaps I can download a trial copy of Power ISO to see if burning on a Windows based system has any impact.

Man, don't even loose your time doing that! "Sinceriously", thanks for your help but don't waste your time... I'll try to burn the image at lower speed and try to get another image of Tiger and see what happens... The one I got was from a famous apple private tracker...

 

[mp2017]

Man, don't even loose your time doing that! "Sinceriously", thanks for your help but don't waste your time... I'll try to burn the image at lower speed and try to get another image of Tiger and see what happens... The one I got was from a famous apple private tracker...

It hasn't been a problem. I just set the iBook up on my desk and let it do its thing while I'm working.

In fact I've enjoyed it as I haven't really had a reason to power up the old iBook in a long time. It's been fun working with classic MacOS as I've assisted you in this effort. Despite the advancements in OS X I loved the old OS (which is why I have this iBook as it boots MacOS 9.2 natively).
[doublepost=1508350027][/doublepost]I believe I've discovered the problem and it appears to be an issue with using PowerISO to burn the image file. I downloaded a copy to my Windows 10 PC, burned the Tiger DMG file with it, and then attempted to boot my iBook with it. It was unrecognized as a boot disc when I attempted to boot with the option (alt) key. It exhibited all the same behavior as what you have described. When in OS 9.2.2 it shows on the desktop. I can start the installer but receive the same error. It does not appear as a valid boot disc in the Startup Disk control panel.

I then tested the DMG file by using Disk Utility on my Lion Mac Pro system to burn the disc. This disc shows as a valid boot disc when I use the option (alt) key to select a boot volume. Not only does it show as an option but it also boots to the installer.

It appears you need to create the disc, at least disc 1, on a Mac or utilize some other, known to work with Mac DMG files, disk burning software on the PC.

 

[s¡juandelarocha]

Great news mp2017!

Yeah! PowerISO seems to be definitely the problem! I will manage to get a MAC to burn the CD 1 and get everything ready for next weekend we go to the countryside house to check it

Thank you so much! I'll keep you posted!

 

[mp2017]

Great news mp2017!

Yeah! PowerISO seems to be definitely the problem! I will manage to get a MAC to burn the CD 1 and get everything ready for next weekend we go to the countryside house to check it

Thank you so much! I'll keep you posted!

If you are able to find a Mac to burn with I would recommend burning all four discs from there. If the system is a distance away then I'd rather have four discs burned on a Mac rather than keep three which were burned by software which we know to have some kind of issue with burning DMG images.