Detailed Analysis of iPhone 4 Signal Strength Dropoff

[BobVB]

Should I get a free 3G microcell from Apple since I go lots of places with extremely poor AT&T coverage.

Is comparing a 10¢ piece of rubber that makes the phone functional really the equivalent of a separate device that has a monthly service fee?

Point of fact it would be great feature for Apple to add, having automatic switch to VOIP in areas not adequately covered by 3G. Might have ameliorated this hideous design debacle.

 

[spiritlevel]

A bumper isn't required. You also have the option of not holding the phone around the bottom left when in weak signal areas. This is mentioned in the manual for several other cell phones.

Firewood - you work for Apple right, or on their behalf? PR damage limitation team?

It's just that if you remove all the fluff from your posts over the last 2 days you are basically just left with 3 things...

It's a non-issue
Hold it different
Buy a bumper

And I know where I've heard that before...

I honestly admire your professional tenacity and the polite, patient tone of your posts, even though they are inevitably going to be ineffective. The truth is out - the phone is flawed and I'm sure you know that just as well as I do (but could never admit it in public of course).

 

[firewood]

I honestly admire your professional tenacity and the polite, patient tone of your posts, even though they are inevitably going to be ineffective. The truth is out - the phone is flawed and I'm sure you know that just as well as I do (but could never admit it in public of course).

All products have flaws. Engineering is the art of sometimes nasty trade-offs. The laws of physics often require that. The i4 is designed for use by intelligent customers. We will see how many of them keep their i4's over the next few weeks. My bet is that the number will be in the millions.

I still haven't seen anyone agree with me that the i4 is flawed because I have to move my hand to use the camera. Apple really needs to find a way to direct the photons around my hand blocking the lens for when I hold the i4 like I normally hold a camera.

 

[spiritlevel]

All products have flaws. Engineering is the art of sometimes nasty trade-offs. The laws of physics often require that. The i4 is designed for use by intelligent customers. We will see how many of them keep their i4's over the next few weeks. My bet is that the number will be in the millions.

Nothing in the laws of physics to prevent the antenna being coated in a non conductive material is there?

I still haven't seen anyone agree with me that the i4 is flawed because I have to move my hand to use the camera. Apple really needs to find a way to direct the photons around my hand blocking the lens for when I hold the i4 like I normally hold a camera.

Come on, that's weak, you're better than that.



Lack of denial noted by the way.

 

[donny77]

Skeptics? Why would they - it totally vindicates their complaints of dropped calls with normal usage.

If anything its 'point match' that Apple should include a bumper with every purchase - if the phone won't operate properly without it to a large number of people anything else is attorney general reporting territory (can't sell something as complete and then have it require another item you must purchase to have it work properly)

It's a great article, but both sides are using it because "normal way" is vague and subjective. I had the issue with my usual grip. My friend does not with his usual grip. Is one of us holding it abnormally? Of course not. It's personal preference. I changed my grip. Guess what, I took a call today in my office. Spoke for 5 minutes. Call was crystal clear. I didn't have to run outside to keep from dropping the call. I didn't have to ask the person to repeat every other line. Is that worth moving my hand 1 cm? You bet.

Let's cut the dramatization. You people keep saying the phone is unusable while being held. This is not true. It is unusable if you touch a 1 cm area on the side of the phone. Big difference. Does that make it right? No. Apple should have given this info out up front. A bumper or cheaper cover should have been provided for those who can't just move their hand.

 

[BobVB]

Let's cut the dramatization.

if only the fanboys would stop calling a phone dropping 5 bar calls a dramatization things would be better all around.

You people keep saying the phone is unusable while being held.

No the fanboys say people say that - its called a strawman.

Apple should have given this info out up front. A bumper or cheaper cover should have been provided for those who can't just move their hand.

Agreed at the very least.

 

[caddisfly]

...no matter how many graphs and data you show me, until you use an iphone sample size of something > 1, then this is all this is just BS and you are no closer in determining what is going on and attributing it to some overall Apple screwup than a ouija board.

as a start, take your phone and switch it with someone's phone who "never" has dropped calls.....and then tell me the respective "subjective" results from both parties and then put your measuring tools on them both. And then expand it from there....

 

[tigress666]

It's a great article, but both sides are using it because "normal way" is vague and subjective. I had the issue with my usual grip. My friend does not with his usual grip. Is one of us holding it abnormally? Of course not. It's personal preference. I changed my grip. Guess what, I took a call today in my office. Spoke for 5 minutes. Call was crystal clear. I didn't have to run outside to keep from dropping the call. I didn't have to ask the person to repeat every other line. Is that worth moving my hand 1 cm? You bet.

Let's cut the dramatization. You people keep saying the phone is unusable while being held. This is not true. It is unusable if you touch a 1 cm area on the side of the phone. Big difference. Does that make it right? No. Apple should have given this info out up front. A bumper or cheaper cover should have been provided for those who can't just move their hand.

Have to fully agree with this.

 

[Butts M Biggilo]

It really works!!!

 

[JBone]

Nice analysis. I've waited for real research and this is it. I've still no problems, but now I see the big differences between the phones.

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man." - Thomas Jefferson


Moderators: this is a direct stab at Christianity and should not be allowed. Don't expect me to stay on topic when a forum member blatantly advertises a quote he or she obviously supports and is without a doubt offensive.

What if my quote was "Barack Obama is the worst president ever and is a disgrace to America."? Would that fly? Didn't think so.

 

[kdarling]

How iOS4 maps the bars to signal strength makes sense, and it would not surprise me if Nexus One did it the same way.

I would be a little surprised if we found any two manufacturers who map the bars in the same way

Just for fun, I checked GSM and CDMA Blackberrys to see how they mapped their standby bar displays. For instance, what RIM calls 3 bars, Apple calls 5 bars.

Bars   1    2    3    4    5
==== ==== ==== ==== ==== ====
iOS4 -113 -107 -103 -101  -91
GSM  -106  -99  -92  -86  -77
CDMA -108 -103  -96  -89  -82


         -110      -100       -90       -80    db
      |----|----|----|----|----|----|----|-----|

iOS4    1.....2...3.4.........5.................
GSM            1......2......3.....4.........5..
CDMA         1....2......3......4......5........

(iPhone 4, GSM BB, CDMA BB)

(A linear graph is not the best thing to use here, but I'm in a rush.)

 

[BobVB]

Moderators: this is a direct stab at Christianity and should not be allowed. Don't expect me to stay on topic when a forum member blatantly advertises a quote he or she obviously supports and is without a doubt offensive.

1) quote is specious - there is no documentation he ever said that, however
2) no one has a right to not be offended, and
3) if Christianity is correct, I don't think an omniscient, all powerful being needs anyone to run interference for it. if it really exists the poster is already been dealt with as God intended.

 

[Mark Booth]

It really works!!! View attachment 235497

And who better to know than a guy with "butt" in his name!

Mark

 

[primeragt1]

All products have flaws. Engineering is the art of sometimes nasty trade-offs. The laws of physics often require that. The i4 is designed for use by intelligent customers. We will see how many of them keep their i4's over the next few weeks. My bet is that the number will be in the millions.

I still haven't seen anyone agree with me that the i4 is flawed because I have to move my hand to use the camera. Apple really needs to find a way to direct the photons around my hand blocking the lens for when I hold the i4 like I normally hold a camera.

Your posts are wasted air. You are brainwashed.


Apple builds the best phones. Each phone has been better than the last. This time however they did a severe step backwards on trying to make the reception better. Their loyal customers are not wanting to jump ship, they want Apple to step up and make it right. They love their iPhones.

I love my iPhone 4. Its awesome. I wont return it. I will however ridicule Apple every day that they don't acknowledge the problem. I will gladly join a class action lawsuit against them. I will continue to educate those around me by demonstrating the iPhone's new ability to stop data transfer by holding my phone in a rebellious manner.

So why am I mad? Because they ****ed up something I love. I will fight to make it right.

 

[KnightWRX]

This is seriously awesome (read the last 3 lines of the fine print on the bottom) :

Verizon didn't waste any time using this against Apple.

 

[mdatwood]

I'm starting to wonder if there are just defective phones out there, especially those who received their phones from the first batch.

I just got my iPhone4 today from Best Buy. I've been trying off and on for hours to make it lose signal and can't get it to happen. While driving around I noticed it had lost a bar of signal on it's own in a area that's always been bad for my 3GS. I immediately stopped and grabbed my phone with 4 bars and thought finally here is my chance to recreate the problem...still no dice. All I managed to do was get it to drop 1 more bar down to 3 which doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

To those having the problem I would take the phone back and get a replacement. It's very possible that some manufacturing defect crept in while cranking out millions of phones in a very short period of time.

 

[sasebastian]

that's funny! I've had mine since the 23rd and have used it in 3 different states and have not had signal falloff from holding the phone a certain way. In fact my 3gs only gave me 3 bars where I live in the middle of nowhere and the iphone 4 gives me 5 bars all the time. I have tried every possible way aside from dipping my phone in a bucket of water to make it drop signal and have had no luck. Apparently some people don't know how to hold a cell phone or you just have crappy cell service in your area. I've watched several different videos showing the bars drop when people hold their phone like a circus freak. apple is not a company known to release defective devices and the antenna was one of the biggest points of engineering that the phone has. I think they would have caught this before they spent billions of dollars making these things and selling them to people who look to apple for the best products. I work at an apple store in KY and have not had one person come in or call complaining about loss of reception. These incidents are scattered but in not enough numbers to be a product defect. The only thing that could be considered defective about the iphone is AT&T.

 

[spiritlevel]

...no matter how many graphs and data you show me, until you use an iphone sample size of something > 1, then this is all this is just BS and you are no closer in determining what is going on and attributing it to some overall Apple screwup than a ouija board.

as a start, take your phone and switch it with someone's phone who "never" has dropped calls.....and then tell me the respective "subjective" results from both parties and then put your measuring tools on them both. And then expand it from there....

Showing you graphs and data is no good unless you actually READ it.

It's not about iPhone sample size, it's about LOCATION.

It's been a week now and no one has been able to provide any evidence of 2 IP4s behaving differently (one showing the problem, the other not) in the same location.

That's because ALL IP4s are affected by this problem. In any given place ALL IP4s will either exhibit the problem or they won't.

Apparently some people don't know how to hold a cell phone... I've watched several different videos showing the bars drop when people hold their phone like a circus freak.

People like Steve Jobs you mean? Not sure as an Apple Store employee it's a good idea for you to refer to people like him as freaks...

or do you mean the freaks Apple used for it's marketing campaign?

I think they would have caught this before they spent billions of dollars making these things and selling them to people who look to apple for the best products.

I would have thought that too. Unfortunately they evidently didn't.

I work at an apple store in KY and have not had one person come in or call complaining about loss of reception. These incidents are scattered but in not enough numbers to be a product defect.

All IP4s have this issue. It's only a matter of time and movement before you come to realise that.

The only thing that could be considered defective about the iphone is AT&T.

Last time I looked AT&T was only in the US. This problem is happening worldwide. Have you actually read the anandtech article this thread is about?

 

[kevwright]

It's not a design flaw: it's a legitimate design decision that has resulted in better performance provided the bumper is used. The flaw was not including a bumper in the price. Apple will give me a free bumper because they've broken the Sale of Goods Act in the UK: the phone must be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose. It isn't without the bumper therefore one should be provided. Then the phone will be fine. Simple.

Cheers,

jahman

Firstly, if it is a legitimate design decision, I don't see why Apple could not stand up and say just that, instead of hiding behind the bumper.

As for the UK SOGA, best of luck with that one, Apple can prove without question this device is fit for purpose, there will be no requirement on a wireless device to prove it in your particular location.

It works just fine in a decent signal area.

Kev

 

[kevwright]

No emails or memos. Just some text in a grey box with a blue line on bgr. They claim they heard it from an Apple guy. They do not even claim to have seen a memo. Lots of people claim BGR says they have a memo, but they in fact never said that. Nor can they produce one.

Well I have the line about the 4 being the best wireless signal of any iPhone on tape, verbatim to the BGR memo.

Kev

 

[kevwright]

This is seriously awesome (read the last 3 lines of the fine print on the bottom) :

Verizon didn't waste any time using this against Apple.

Is there a chance we could reserve some words for correct use please.

As an example:

Word: Awesome. Apply it to Mount Everest, Total Eclipse of the Sun, Childbirth, Son or Daughter's first steps, and there are lots more.

Do we have to use it for a ****ing advert?

Kev

 

[kevwright]

I'm starting to wonder if there are just defective phones out there, especially those who received their phones from the first batch.

I just got my iPhone4 today from Best Buy. I've been trying off and on for hours to make it lose signal and can't get it to happen. While driving around I noticed it had lost a bar of signal on it's own in a area that's always been bad for my 3GS. I immediately stopped and grabbed my phone with 4 bars and thought finally here is my chance to recreate the problem...still no dice. All I managed to do was get it to drop 1 more bar down to 3 which doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

To those having the problem I would take the phone back and get a replacement. It's very possible that some manufacturing defect crept in while cranking out millions of phones in a very short period of time.

I don't think so myself. in fact I asked the Apple rep yesterday if I should return it for exchange, and she said, no, they are all the same.

Read the Anandtech review, you will understand it more, think about it this way, the 1 bar drop you saw in another area would drop you to nothing, its the way bars work.

Best forget bars completely, just keep trying it in the left corner, hold it for a good few seconds, and it will eventually go off completely.

Or, you might never go to a bad signal area, in which case it won't.

Kev

 

[spiritlevel]

Firstly, if it is a legitimate design decision, I don't see why Apple could not stand up and say just that, instead of hiding behind the bumper.

As for the UK SOGA, best of luck with that one, Apple can prove without question this device is fit for purpose, there will be no requirement on a wireless device to prove it in your particular location.

It works just fine in a decent signal area.

Kev

I've appreciated your balanced views about all this Kev...

Personally I think UK Customers do have a case under the SOGA. Certainly the law stands in their favour much more than it does in the US.

It really depends on how you define "decent" signal area. I thought I lived in a "decent" signal area in London. Always got 5 bars on my 3g. Never dropped bars due to the way I held the phone. Different story with the IP4 which drops from 5 to 1 when I pick it up in my left hand and data service drops to between 0-20 kbps. If a bumper is required to make the phone function properly in an area like this, it should be included in the price - I'm not exactly in the sticks.

I think a court would first need to define what signal strength one could reasonably expect a phone to perform properly at when held in the usual way. The fact that SJ and Apple's marketing materials show the phone being held this way would certainly work in the user's favour. If the IP4 was found not to perform adequately when held in this way in an area equal to that signal strength, the user would have a reasonable chance of winning the case.

PS - Expect a warning from the mods about making consecutive posts. I got one last night (and I only made 2 consecutive posts - you just made 4!). Apparently they prefer it if you bunch everything up into one big, long multiquote post.

 

[kevwright]

Apparently some people don't know how to hold a cell phone or you just have crappy cell service in your area. I've watched several different videos showing the bars drop when people hold their phone like a circus freak.

Well, I lose signal when I hold it EXACTLY like your boss man Steve. is he a freak?

Come on, this is SIGNAL related.

Is it fairly easy to hold the phone so this does not happen. Yes. For a left hander, not so much.

Also, do you really think it COST Apple billions to make this product? Or are you getting confused with how much it will MAKE them?

Kev

 

[kevwright]

I've appreciated your balanced views about all this Kev...

PS - Expect a warning from the mods about making consecutive posts. I got one last night (and I only made 2 consecutive posts - you just made 4!). Apparently they prefer it if you bunch everything up into one big, long multiquote post.

I am not sure how to do those multiquote things, must look it up, end up cutting and pasting the [QUOTE things all over the place Thanks for noticing my balance, I do a short audio slot each week on a UK podcast, covering specifically the iPhone mostly, and this does go out to a lot of people, so I try to get to the bottom of things, without my natural Apple fanboyism coming out too much I hope.

I started out like a lot of people defending Apple, and thinking there is no way they would mess this up, and even if they did, they would sort it quickly.

I actually do not hold it in my left hand much, and can avoid the issue pretty well, and I will as I still see this as the best phone out at the moment without exception.

I think you are right about Apple should give us the bumper, I tried via phone yesterday and she would not budge, although I found her much more hesitant than Apple reps usually are. I think they have been caught out for sure.

At one point, she suggested going into an Apple Store to see if I coudl get a free Bumper, but when I said I was some way away, she changed that to "I think you will have to purchase it"

I actually got the impression she either had someone advising her in the background, or was frantically referring to a sheet of paper

She also quoted word perfect the one line from this http://bit.ly/d2f8vN specifically

"The iPhone 4’s wireless performance is the best we have ever shipped. Our testing shows that iPhone 4’s overall antenna performance is better than iPhone 3GS"

We shall see, I do not really want a Bumper, I will try one, but I am not paying for it, that is certain.

Kev