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I haven't upgraded yet.. My Mac runs great as it is. Im still thinking about the doing the upgrade.

I remember when Windows XP came out and I had to upgrade a few computers and all the hell windows gave me just to do a stupid system upgrade... I guess windows has burned nightmares into my head. I doubt that I would have any problems with the snow leapoard...
 
The only difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Microsoft's platform has a MUCH better 64-Bit support than Apple's platform.

Actually, the main difference is that Apple is slowly moving all of their users to 64-bit.

Microsoft quickly moved some of their users to 64-bit.

As they are both currently in transition it's kind of hard to compare those 2 strategies right now. They both have pros and cons at the moment. But in 2 years I think that Microsoft's way is going to seem like a mistake when they're still trying to juggle 2 different systems and forcing the user to decide which one to get.

Right now no average users are really thinking about 64 bit on either platform. In 2011 I predict that Apple users still won't be thinking about it (the transition will go unnoticed by most) but your average Window user will finallyl be thinking about it, but in a confused way, not in a good way.
 
As they are both currently in transition it's kind of hard to compare those 2 strategies right now. But in 2 years I think that Microsoft's way is going to seem like a mistake when they're still trying to juggle 2 different systems and forcing the user to decide which one to get.

I think that's the main problem with the way Windows is handling it. Most users have no clue what 32-bit and 64-bit mean. I like the way Apple is doing it because the user doesn't have to choose, the OS takes care of it.
 
And why is that? Windows 7, like Vista and XP before it, will be available in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. The only difference between Apple and Microsoft is that Microsoft's platform has a MUCH better 64-Bit support than Apple's platform, especially when we are talking about hardware drivers. And unlike Apple, Microsoft does not switch their targeted hardware platforms every two years while at the same time abandoning the 'older' architectures.

a lot of drivers on Windows x64 still run in 32 bit mode. they just run in the WOW, Windows on Windows space. we have a lot of x64 servers running Windows 2003 Server and a lot of the most recent HP drivers are still 32 bit. we had some issues 2 years ago, but they were all solved
 
I don't know if I like that how OS X is going to be in a cycle of new features, then a new version that is just refinements.
Nobody says that's how it's going to be. John simply says this would have a lot going for it (and I agree)
with no need to refine, because the features should be optimized already

Apple should just make every new feature with its best software team and leave no room for unnecessary or inefficient code.[/quotemsg]
You quite clearly aren't a programmer, I fear.
I somehow doubt they will "tick-tock" since this update was only above 10.5 due to dropping support for older architecture. It it was mere refinement, I bet it would have been just another point-number version.
What the… have you even read the review? Do you really think Siracusa could get 23 pages (his longest OSX review to date) on a point-number release?
If Apple will "tick-tock" every 3 years and drop support of hardware only 3 years old, I'd be pissed. That would be death to Apple. If they use a "tick-tock" method of release to merely gain a few extra bucks every 36 months, it might not be so bad if the upgrade is worth it...
A tick-tock cycle doesn't in any way, shape or form require dropping hardware. And dropping which hardware to start with? 10.7 might kill 32bit altogether (though I doubt it, that'll probably be for 10.8 around 2011-2012) which corresponds to the first 6 months of Intel-based macs, but then what are you going to drop? Everything since is EMT64…
In my opinion, I it would be nice if Apple was more like MS in the way where instead of putting out a new major version of the OS every 12-18 months, they took maybe 3 years between each version.
Ugh no. The 20+ months between Leopard and SL were already far too much.
And why is that?
I guess it's due to 2 reasons:
  • 32-bit Windows processes can only have 2 to 3 GB of virtual memory due to the kernel sharing the address space with the process. OSX 32bit processes get 4GB.
  • While PAE is enabled on Windows 32b, the maximum "visible" memory is still limited to 4GB (so having 6 or 8GB of RAM in a 32b windows machine wastes them). In OSX, PAE is enabled with no limitation so you get (and use) up to 32GB of RAM (note: processes and kernel are still limited to 4GB of VMEM)
And unlike Apple, Microsoft does not switch their targeted hardware platforms every two years while at the same time abandoning the 'older' architectures.
Wait what?

68000 from 1984 to 1996
PPC from 1995 to 2006
x86 from 2006 onwards

Those cycles are more than 10 years long, hardly "every two years"…
I haven't upgraded yet.. My Mac runs great as it is. Im still thinking about the doing the upgrade.

I remember when Windows XP came out and I had to upgrade a few computers and all the hell windows gave me just to do a stupid system upgrade... I guess windows has burned nightmares into my head. I doubt that I would have any problems with the snow leapoard...
If you're ok with Leopard and you don't really want SHINYYYYY new SL, I recommend that you wait for 10.6.1.

I'm fairly happy with SL so far, but the software breakage annoys me (a lot of macports ports don't build anymore) and I've had pretty severe stability issues with Mail during the weekend (no data loss, but…).

Apple apps stability will probably be fixed with 10.6.1, and third-party app compatibility is resolving itself slowly (MenuMeters is already back)
 
Whatever. Too long, did not read.

Press and hold '6' and '4' on the keyboard during boot-up to boot into 64-bit mode. Only works on "newer machines," whatever that means.
 
OS X 10.7 - Black Panther?

Lol.

But seriously, for the poster who said they want Apple to release a new OS every 3-4 years like Microsoft - that would be horrible.

That was one of my favorite switching points from a PC - XP was out FOREVER, and desperately needed an upgrade. I enjoy getting a new OS every 1.5 to 2 years; if a new feature/app comes along, we don't have to wait 4 years for Apple to implement it in their OS. That's how Apple can stay ahead the game too.

When Vista was released, it was horrible (speed, performance, driver issues) - sure some service packs came and improved it ever-so-slightly, but users had to wait 3 years to get Windows 7 (the speed/reliability Vista should have had).
 
And unlike Apple, Microsoft does not switch their targeted hardware platforms every two years while at the same time abandoning the 'older' architectures.

Microsoft has for as long as i can remember been pushing Window on x86, Apple on the other hand has went from PPC to x86 in the last 3 years.

I have not seen Apple changing architectures every two years. And in the PPC era both Apple and Microsoft had very long support times for OS upgrades such as OS X 10.4 running on 266 MHz G3's and Windows XP running on Pentium 2 400 MHz systems which by the times standards, were as today these systems are not even on the same level as a mobile phone.
 
Nobody says that's how it's going to be. John simply says this would have a lot going for it (and I agree)
with no need to refine, because the features should be optimized already

Apple should just make every new feature with its best software team and leave no room for unnecessary or inefficient code.[/quotemsg]
You quite clearly aren't a programmer, I fear.

What the… have you even read the review? Do you really think Siracusa could get 23 pages (his longest OSX review to date) on a point-number release?

A tick-tock cycle doesn't in any way, shape or form require dropping hardware. And dropping which hardware to start with? 10.7 might kill 32bit altogether (though I doubt it, that'll probably be for 10.8 around 2011-2012) which corresponds to the first 6 months of Intel-based macs, but then what are you going to drop? Everything since is EMT64…

Ugh no. The 20+ months between Leopard and SL were already far too much.

I guess it's due to 2 reasons:
  • 32-bit Windows processes can only have 2 to 3 GB of virtual memory due to the kernel sharing the address space with the process. OSX 32bit processes get 4GB.
  • While PAE is enabled on Windows 32b, the maximum "visible" memory is still limited to 4GB (so having 6 or 8GB of RAM in a 32b windows machine wastes them). In OSX, PAE is enabled with no limitation so you get (and use) up to 32GB of RAM (note: processes and kernel are still limited to 4GB of VMEM)

Wait what?

68000 from 1984 to 1996
PPC from 1995 to 2006
x86 from 2006 onwards

Those cycles are more than 10 years long, hardly "every two years"…

If you're ok with Leopard and you don't really want SHINYYYYY new SL, I recommend that you wait for 10.6.1.

I'm fairly happy with SL so far, but the software breakage annoys me (a lot of macports ports don't build anymore) and I've had pretty severe stability issues with Mail during the weekend (no data loss, but…).

Apple apps stability will probably be fixed with 10.6.1, and third-party app compatibility is resolving itself slowly (MenuMeters is already back)

you can use more than 4GB of RAM on x86 Windows, but the application has to be coded for it and there are limitations. we used to run SQL Server with 8GB of RAM since 2002 and it would only store cached execution plans past 4GB. MS Exchange which is just MS Access on steroids had no support for PAE and you couldn't use it until Exchange 2003 SP2.

right now we run SQL with 32GB of RAM on most servers, one has 64GB. once 64GB comes down in price to $1500 or so we'll upgrade a few servers. New low end cheapo HP servers support up to 192GB of RAM and it will probably go up 50% to 100% by early next year
 
Apple could conquer if they made an iWeb program that wasn't so stiff and bloated: something even more versatile for the average person and business owner. The web programming is too complex for average neophytes, and takes too long to study and learn if you are busy doing other things like running a business. iWeb is a great baby step in a lucrative direction, but I doubt Apple will grab hold of that market because they are focused on devices and OS at this time.

If you approach the Apple suite as a whole, then iWeb is actually very simple, as the tools are pretty much the same across the iWork apps.

What is a drag about iWeb however, is its inability to just produce (or even import) vanilla HTML(5), and host it easily wherever you wish... too much tie-in (lock in?) to Mobile Me.

I've worked up a really nice site for my wife's pottery business in iWeb, but I'm reluctant to deploy it to Mobile Me (using DNS aliasing) because it makes me trapped.
 
It was pure marketing hype (and lies about being "the first 64-bit desktop") when the G5 was released.

The version of OSX that shipped with the G5 had *no* 64-bit capability, so when the first G5s shipped there was no 64-bit software.

The next version of OSX added minimal support for command (terminal.app) applications to use 64-bit addresses.

10.3 was released in October 2003, G5 was released in June 2003.10.3 supported 64bits. Sure, it was only limited to command-line apps, but still it supported them. And I bet that those were the apps that benefitted the most. In other words, scientific calculations and the like. And even GUI-apps could create a worker process that was 64bits.

For three months or so you could say that it was just "lies and marketing hype". Of course, being the complainer that you are, you focus on that and whine.
 
Whatever. Too long, did not read.

This is one of the problems world currently has. People have short attention-spans. Everything must be RIGHT NOW.

Do you also want to receive all the news of the world in 10-second soundbites? Books should be 20 pages long, otherwise they are "too long".

Maybe the re view is long because it provides a lot of insight and detail? But hey, maybe you should just focus on reviews that are two paragraphs long, otherwise you might get confused.
 
... But in 2 years I think that Microsoft's way is going to seem like a mistake when they're still trying to juggle 2 different systems and forcing the user to decide which one to get.

Microsoft has dropped x86 support for Windows Server in the current release, and has stated that x86 will be dropped in the next client release.


Right now no average users are really thinking about 64 bit on either platform. In 2011 I predict that Apple users still won't be thinking about it (the transition will go unnoticed by most) but your average Window user will finallyl be thinking about it, but in a confused way, not in a good way.

Actually if you'd check you'd find that a large percentage (perhaps a majority) of the desktops and laptops at Best Buy and Fry's are already Vista x64. (Any system with 4 GiB of RAM will be x64, and many of the 2 GiB and 3 GiB systems have x64 so that RAM can easily be expanded.)

When Windows 7 systems come out next month, expect to see most of them running x64.

The average Windows user is moving to x64 today...


I guess it's due to 2 reasons:
  • 32-bit Windows processes can only have 2 to 3 GB of virtual memory due to the kernel sharing the address space with the process. OSX 32bit processes get 4GB.
  • While PAE is enabled on Windows 32b, the maximum "visible" memory is still limited to 4GB (so having 6 or 8GB of RAM in a 32b windows machine wastes them). In OSX, PAE is enabled with no limitation so you get (and use) up to 32GB of RAM (note: processes and kernel are still limited to 4GB of VMEM)

Your first point is correct, but your second isn't quite true.

Windows Server x86 systems have full PAE support, and 32-bit operating systems can see and manage the full 64 GiB that's available. (As you say, each process only sees 4 GiB of VM.)

Windows desktop systems don't have PAE support. They run the CPU with PAE enabled so that 64-bit VM structures are used (the NX feature is only available when PAE is enabled in the CPU). Desktop Windows doesn't have the rest of the extended address support, so have the same 4 GiB (really 3.something GiB) RAM visibility.
 
Pretty funny that Ars Technica never got around to reviewing Windows Vista, but spent 23 pages review Snow Leopard!
 
What really bugs me about Snow Leopard: Will it be 2 years before we see any new features?

It seems there is quit a number of areas where people would want to see some progress made before long...
 
Actually if you'd check you'd find that a large percentage (perhaps a majority) of the desktops and laptops at Best Buy and Fry's are already Vista x64. (Any system with 4 GiB of RAM will be x64, and many of the 2 GiB and 3 GiB systems have x64 so that RAM can easily be expanded.)

When Windows 7 systems come out next month, expect to see most of them running x64.

Does this match what you're saying?

http://www.internetnews.com/software/article.php/3781891/Windows+7+May+Trigger+64bit+OS+Adoption.htm

It seems to me that ALL of that (your post and the article) just confirm what I've been saying: The Windows user is going to have to choose which system they want.

Given the rate at which people upgrade machines, I think Microsoft is looking at a 10 year transition starting now.

That was my original point, and everything you've said seems to line up with my guess pretty well.
 
You don't find these 2 sentences funny next to each other?

We're here!
Except not really!

Read the rest of the post. People have been suggesting the transition to 64 will be complete by the time of 10.8.

That's rubbish. When all 3rd party vendors release their 64 bit kexts we'll be done, and it looks like it won't take long.
 
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