Details of Lost Next-Generation iPhone Saga Revealed in Search Warrant Affidavit

[Geckotek]

As if Apple wouldn't have gotten the exact same publicity at launch of the 4G model.... instead the stir occured much too early. As a consequence less people buy the 3G/3GS models, which means they will have manufactured too many of them and not enough 4G models. Also they will make more money on 3G/3GS models they sell now compared to 4G models sold in 6 weeks, since the new model is more expensive to make but sold at the same price.

Nobody cares if you are convinced, it's basic business and PR 1+1.

And how about the negative publicity, e.g. on the Daily Show? Do you choose to simply ignore that because it doesn't fit into your line of argument?

Like I said, show me the numbers. And I don't care if you care if I'm convinced. I can still come on this forum and state my opinion....just lke you do.

PR 101 (I'm guessing that's what you meant) doesn't exactly apply to Apple. They are way beyond that. The 3G/3Gs phones will still sell just fine.

They brought the negative publicity on themselves. They could have let the massive attention work for them, but when the spotlight was on them, they chose to make a move that made them look bad. At the very least they should have waited until after launch to make any moves that could have been deemed as negative in the eye of the public.

Either way, they willl still sell a crapload of iPhones....3G/3Gs/4G...the iPad...iPods...whatever. This isn't going to make even a hint of dent in their sales and profit.

 

[cmaier]

You'll get to see the numbers when apple's expert produces a report for the inevitable civil suit. The tally will have 8 digits.

Like I said, show me the numbers. And I don't care if you care if I'm convinced. I can still come on this forum and state my opinion....just lke you do.

PR 101 (I'm guessing that's what you meant) doesn't exactly apply to Apple. They are way beyond that. The 3G/3Gs phones will still sell just fine.

They brought the negative publicity on themselves. They could have let the massive attention work for them, but when the spotlight was on them, they chose to make a move that made them look bad. At the very least they should have waited until after launch to make any moves that could have been deemed as negative in the eye of the public.

Either way, they willl still sell a crapload of iPhones....3G/3Gs/4G...the iPad...iPods...whatever. This isn't going to make even a hint of dent in their sales and profit.

 

[marksman]

Like I said, show me the numbers. And I don't care if you care if I'm convinced. I can still come on this forum and state my opinion....just lke you do.

PR 101 (I'm guessing that's what you meant) doesn't exactly apply to Apple. They are way beyond that. The 3G/3Gs phones will still sell just fine.

They brought the negative publicity on themselves. They could have let the massive attention work for them, but when the spotlight was on them, they chose to make a move that made them look bad. At the very least they should have waited until after launch to make any moves that could have been deemed as negative in the eye of the public.

Either way, they willl still sell a crapload of iPhones....3G/3Gs/4G...the iPad...iPods...whatever. This isn't going to make even a hint of dent in their sales and profit.

What moves did they make?

Calling the District Attorney when they found out someone stole their property? Are you saying they should not have done that? Seriously?

You know how illogical that is?

 

[Atkins]

Like I said, show me the numbers.

Well, you do understand that you want something impossible, right? It's easy to say I am not convinced and then put a condition for convincing you that can't be satisfied.

PR 101 (I'm guessing that's what you meant) doesn't exactly apply to Apple.

PR and "basic business" (you forgot that) do apply to Apple. Even you agree on that by saying:

They brought the negative publicity on themselves.

They could have let the massive attention work for them, but when the spotlight was on them, they chose to make a move that made them look bad. At the very least they should have waited until after launch to make any moves that could have been deemed as negative in the eye of the public.

Here you do agree that there is bad publicity and that affects them? So PR applies to them? I don't follow you.
And all they did is defend themselves. It was all this Apple bashing that quickly painted them as the big corp which stomped on the little guy (most of which was due to kicking Chen's door, which was what the police did - with warrant and everything - but somehow was interpreted as being unjustified and made by Apple's own army). What I am saying here is - journalism is a joke nowadays. If Apple waited until after the release there would've been some other conspiracy theory.

Either way, they willl still sell a crapload of iPhones....3G/3Gs/4G...the iPad...iPods...whatever. This isn't going to make even a hint of dent in their sales and profit.

Nobody says it will sink Apple. And that is not the point. Apple's lawyers will prove that there is a loss (I really don't want to get into economics, psychology, etc, especially if the only thing that will convince you would be numbers) and that would be enough to sue the guy.

 

[Master Chief]

I thought the difference is explained by the bounty clause in the sales contract.

That might explain it, but read this quote:

Hogan told her that Gizmodo had offered him $10,000 for the phone, and showed her a camera box containing $5,000 in $100 bills, according to the affidavit. It says: "Martinson said Hogan also told her that he will receive a cash bonus from Gizmodo.com in July, if and when Apple makes an official product announcement regarding the new iPhone.

And thus the $5,000 he got can also be half of a larger total, in which case there might be another party involved. Just a wild guess of course, but still.

 

[DougB541]

In hindsight, I bet this dude wished he just took detailed photos of the outside of the phone...wrote his own story, returned the phone and sold his story/pictures.


Silly silly silly.

 

[raccoontail]

In hindsight, I bet this dude wished he just took detailed photos of the outside of the phone...wrote his own story, returned the phone and sold his story/pictures.
Silly silly silly.

A smarter kid would have called Apple and requested 1) A lunch with Steve Jobs where he would return the phone personally. 2) The chance to interview for a job at Apple. I have no doubt he would have gotten both, would have been a nice story, and a lot better than $5k and possible prosecution and civil damages.

 

[DougB541]

A smarter kid would have called Apple and requested 1) A lunch with Steve Jobs where he would return the phone personally. 2) The chance to interview for a job at Apple. I have no doubt he would have gotten both, would have been a nice story, and a lot better than $5k and possible prosecution and civil damages.

Well depends if he had any interest in doing either of those.

I think if he had just found it, wrote his own story and took pictures and returned it within the day....yeah sucks for apple...but damn fine journalistic work.

Now i don't know if he had any wish of that happening either.....but it would've been at least legal instead of selling the actually phone.

 

[Bytor65]

An Honorable person wouldn't have taken the Phone!

A smarter kid would have called Apple and requested....

It is never smart to extort people for the return of their own property. As Gizmodo folks will likely find out.

I can't believe anyone is still bothering to defend Hogan in any way, or arguing about what he should have done after his initial crime. An honorable person would have never taken the phone in the first place.

It is clear that Hogen was miscreant/petty thief from the very beginning, when he failed basic kindergarten ethics. Don't take other peoples stuff.

There really is no excuse for removing other peoples property from a Pub in the first place, and quietly skuling out with it. IMO that isn't finding it, that is theft. You find something, turn it in to the manager. A club manager isn't going to risk his position and future ones just to keep someones phone.

This is all obvious before the recent revelations about evidence hiding, keeping the payment in cash, and the "Sucks for him. He lost his phone. Shouldn't have lost his phone." comments. None of this should surprise anyone because he clearly was a dishonorable character from the beginning.

So we shouldn't be discussing that he should have instead tried to extort favors from Apple. He simply should never have taken the phone to begin with.

 

[DougB541]

It is never smart to extort people for the return of their own property. As Gizmodo folks will likely find out.

I can't believe anyone is still bothering to defend Hogan in any way, or arguing about what he should have done after his initial crime. An honorable person would have never taken the phone in the first place.

It is clear that Hogen was miscreant/petty thief from the very beginning, when he failed basic kindergarten ethics. Don't take other peoples stuff.

There really is no excuse for removing other peoples property from a Pub in the first place, and quietly skuling out with it. IMO that isn't finding it, that is theft. You find something, turn it in to the manager. A club manager isn't going to risk his position and future ones just to keep someones phone.

This is all obvious before the recent revelations about evidence hiding, keeping the payment in cash, and the "Sucks for him. He lost his phone. Shouldn't have lost his phone." comments. None of this should surprise anyone because he clearly was a dishonorable character from the beginning.

So we shouldn't be discussing that he should have instead tried to extort favors from Apple. He simply should never have taken the phone to begin with.

I am going to have to disagree. I've found someones iPhone before and I was able to return it to the owner by calling their "Mom" in the phone the next day.

I don't think by taking a phone from the establishment after finding it is theft if you intend to find the original owner. Whats stopping the bar owner from jsut taking the phone as well when you turn it into them? Its easy to locate the real owners of smartphones these days but i'm not going to call someones mother at midnight when I found the phone.

 

[Cinemagic]

I don't see this as a question of vengeance or mercy. It's a question of protecting your company's valuable IP and upholding the law.

"You can steal our secret stuff, tear it apart, and post photos of it on a prominent website for profit, we don't mind" is not an acceptable message to send. Period.

As an AAPL shareholder, I hope the law is upheld, the seller and buyer (Chen and anyone above him who knew of the deal and approved it) of the phone see harsh penalties, and Apple bleeds every dime (and then some) out of Gawker made from this ridiculous charade.

And I would support this action regardless of the victim. RIM, Google, even *shudder* Microsoft. A crime is a crime and the size of the victim is irrelevant.

I'm sure the Apple haters will cry "Nazi scum" when the hammer of the law finally comes crashing down, but then again the Apple haters cry "Nazi scum" no matter what Apple does these days. *shrug*

The crime itself is repulsive, but even more so is the juvenile way in which Gizmodo milked the story eight ways from Sunday and rubbed Apple's face in it (including throwing the unlucky field testing engineer under the bus) every step of the way. Their bravado was truly astounding.

I, too, am an APPL shareholder and want nothing but continued success for the company. There will likely be two legal actions. The criminal case is one action. This is not really up to Apple (technically) since the crime committed is against the state not against Apple. Apple is the victim. The State Attorney will make the decision as to whether he feels he can prevail in court. I hope that there is sufficient evidence and that the law is indeed upheld. The second potential action is a civil case brought by Apple against the individuals and Gizmodo. This is where actual monetary damages are determined. Criminal cases require proof beond a reasonable doubt. A civil case by the preponderance of the evidence (50% + 1). It's much easier to win a civil case, but then there is the question of whether it's economically worth the fight. If Apple were to prove that they lost $100M in sales (hypothetically) from the leaked photos, does Gizmodo, Chen and Hogan have $100M? I don't know the financial status of Gizmodo, but I would guess that they do not have $100M in cash. What is the chance of collecting the damages? Probably nil. How much will it cost Apple to litigate the case? Yes they have staff attorneys and they can file the suit without blinking an eye at the costs involved. So filing a civil suit would be more matter of sending a message to others. So from a civil suit standpoint, it is more a matter of vengence (Gizmodo, Chen and Hogan would be financially ruined) or mercy.

Chen is the techno-paparazzi and Gizmodo it the techno-tabloid. I'm not a fan of paparazzi, techno or Hollywood types, but if you like to read AppleInsider, Macrumors, or Gizmodo when they "reveal" the new secrets and rumors, then you are supporting the continued techno-paparazzi. I do believe this statement and I believe that Chen, Hogan and Gizmodo did wrong and should be punished. I guess that makes me a hypocrite. It's sad, but true.

 

[cmaier]

I am going to have to disagree. I've found someones iPhone before and I was able to return it to the owner by calling their "Mom" in the phone the next day.

I don't think by taking a phone from the establishment after finding it is theft if you intend to find the original owner. Whats stopping the bar owner from jsut taking the phone as well when you turn it into them? Its easy to locate the real owners of smartphones these days but i'm not going to call someones mother at midnight when I found the phone.

I agree. I think (if I knew it was more than an ordinary phone) I would call the owner's other numbers, tell the manager I found it and leave my contact info, and if I didn't hear anything in 24 hours, drop it off with the police. I wouldn't leave it with the bartender (who knows if there was even a manager or owner present?) California law, unlike other (mostly european) jurisdictions, does not give the bar owner a superior right of possession.

 

[Bytor65]

I am going to have to disagree. I've found someones iPhone before and I was able to return it to the owner by calling their "Mom" in the phone the next day.

I don't think by taking a phone from the establishment after finding it is theft if you intend to find the original owner. Whats stopping the bar owner from jsut taking the phone as well when you turn it into them? Its easy to locate the real owners of smartphones these days but i'm not going to call someones mother at midnight when I found the phone.

Still no need to take it. It is incredibly simple to ensure the owner doesn't pocket it. Get the info out of the phone turn it over to the owner/manager, tell him you have the info and will contact owner and he can expect them to pick it up.

There is no need or reason to take someones property from where you found it. I would suspect the motive of anyone who did.

 

[LagunaSol]

I hope that there is sufficient evidence and that the law is indeed upheld.

I think "USB flash drives hidden in bushes" is a good start.

There is no need or reason to take someones property from where you found it. I would suspect the motive of anyone who did.

Agreed. Why all the (faux?) concern about unscrupulous bartenders? Methinks a business won't be a business very long if lost items end up going home with employees. Rely on the business owner/manager to deal with the matter.

I'm sure cell phones are left at bars all the time. They probably go into a basket under the bar where they await the return of their anxious owners. I seriously doubt the bartender in this case would have removed the phone from the case to discover it was a prototype device. Bartenders probably don't even look twice at these items. Just a simple "thanks," and into the lost & found basket they go.

Find a lost item in a place of business that doesn't belong to you? Give it to the manager. Easy. Had Hogan observed this very simple bit of common sense, he wouldn't find himself in his current world of hurt.

 

[ct2k7]

Where are the "FML, I slept with Brian Hogan" threads gone/

 

[cmaier]

Still no need to take it. It is incredibly simple to ensure the owner doesn't pocket it. Get the info out of the phone turn it over to the owner/manager, tell him you have the info and will contact owner and he can expect them to pick it up.

There is no need or reason to take someones property from where you found it. I would suspect the motive of anyone who did.

Nah. As long as there are immediate attempts to show you don't intend to steal it (tell the bar supervisor you are taking it and give him your contact info, call the phone's owner or email him immediately if you can find relevant contact information, turn it over to the police as per local statute), it's fine. Too much stuff walks off from a bar lost and found.

 

[cmaier]

Why all the (faux?) concern about unscrupulous bartenders?

Some of us have worked in bars. I wouldn't want a million dollar prototype to be sitting in the lost and found basket.

 

[LagunaSol]

Some of us have worked in bars. I wouldn't want a million dollar prototype to be sitting in the lost and found basket.

Hogan didn't realize it was a million dollar prototype until he got it home.

As for the rest of us, I don't think "I better take this home and deal with this myself as I'm the only person on the planet that can be trusted" is the smartest or best policy...

 

[djsp]

I read the entire thing an hour ago at cnet. MR can be slow to report things it seems. I see the entire story now. Not just Gizmodos. I think this Brain guy is an ass. He knew it was more than a 3GS, but offers no sympathy. He could have wrote to Apple and included photos. But still why Gray would bring something priceless to a bar, where people get drunk is beyond me. I'm not liking Gizmodo/Jason's actions either. tearing the phone apart, and screwing it up.

Its a BIG mistake on Apple's part to trust a young 27 year old with something priceless. Yet, this Brian guy should have done the right thing. Now can someone explain the 2 other leaked prototypes?

Nothing more like an ad hominem argument. I find this pretty pretentious. What if this "young 27-year old" was required to have his phone on him at all times as part of whatever he had to sign to field this prototype? We don't know that. To attack someone's capability of being a responsible adult simply based on age is ridiculous. And to suggest that he shouldn't have brought the phone to a bar "where people get drunk?" That's like choosing to home-school your kids simply because you don't want them to get teased.

 

[DougB541]

Some of us have worked in bars. I wouldn't want a million dollar prototype to be sitting in the lost and found basket.

THIS.

You are trusting other people. I mean this is a bit off topic as his motives WERE bad....but I honestly have never heard of anyone leaving a phone for someone at a bar.

I do live in NYC though so most of the time it is easy to arrange drop offs of lost devices. Someone once found my blackberry curve in a cab and was kind enough to contact my father and my father called my work number and i arranged to pick up my phone.

 

[cmaier]

Hogan didn't realize it was a million dollar prototype until he got it home.

Sure he didn't. And yes, if I thought it to be an ordinary phone I'd turn it over to the bartender.

 

[Bytor65]

Nah. As long as there are immediate attempts to show you don't intend to steal it (tell the bar supervisor you are taking it and give him your contact info, call the phone's owner or email him immediately if you can find relevant contact information, turn it over to the police as per local statute), it's fine. Too much stuff walks off from a bar lost and found.

I agree it is acceptable to hold onto it if you leave your contact info.

Which again makes it clear Hogan was up to no good. He just took it, without leaving any contact info.

It makes perfect sense that on discovering they have lost property an owner will retrace their steps (which the owner did). If you are going to do the right thing when leaving with someone's property you leave your contact info.

 

[Tulse]

I'm not a fan of paparazzi, techno or Hollywood types, but if you like to read AppleInsider, Macrumors, or Gizmodo when they "reveal" the new secrets and rumors, then you are supporting the continued techno-paparazzi.

As far as I know, neither AppleInsider nor MacRumors commit felonies to obtain their information. That is the crucial difference between them and Gizmodo. (Another major difference is that neither AppleInsider nor MacRumors are written by smug adolescent dillweeds.)

 

[skidbubble]

To field test a device, you have to bring it to where the users will take it.

By this logic, I certainly hope Apple took the necessary steps to equip 8 & 9 year old school kids with 4G prototypes because believe it or not kids that age use iPhones. That's the purpose of real world field testing, right?

 

[Geckotek]

THIS.

You are trusting other people. I mean this is a bit off topic as his motives WERE bad....but I honestly have never heard of anyone leaving a phone for someone at a bar.

I do live in NYC though so most of the time it is easy to arrange drop offs of lost devices. Someone once found my blackberry curve in a cab and was kind enough to contact my father and my father called my work number and i arranged to pick up my phone.

Wish I were so lucky, lost my 3Gs in a NYC cab. Tried to call it and the finder quickly powered it off. Luckily when the powered it on the next day, my Exchange server wiped it.

Left my credit card at a bar once. The next day someone decided they needed some tennis shoes and gas more than I needed my money. I would NEVER leave a found iPhone w/ a bar's "lost and found" (as if they actually have such a thing.) I would try to locate the owner on my own. I would probably check back with the bar to see if anybody called looking for it.