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Details on Upcoming Amber Lake Chips Appropriate for 2018 MacBook Leak

The 12” MacBook is probably the ultimate flight notebook. It is ridiculously portable. Probably best for strictly outdoor use. I personally don’t need one but it is a great machine for those who prefer to use macOS instead of iOS. Obviously the performance will be limited by its fanless design.

It’s not for everyone but then again the standard MacBooks never really were. I guess it’s a perfect compromise for those that don’t need to do anything heavier than browsing, word and excel documents.
 
ondert said:
are these things ever going to maintain their clock speeds up under sustain load?
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They'll maintain their base speeds, but not their turbo, that's the whole concept of Turbo in general but even more so for the 5 watt parts. The turbo is for a burst of work like loading a web tab.
 
I love this machine. Still rocking the original 2015 model bumped up to 1.3 ghz. The keyboard is starting to have issues so it will need replacing soon however.

What I would like from a future model is as follows:

720P camera, up from 480p
Bezel-less design with FaceID
HDR support. Is there any reason the new MBP doesn’t support this, but the iPhone X does? Madness
Removal of the headphone jack for another USB-c port
More size options
Perhaps a touch bar
I’d love an OLED screen, but it’s probably not going to happen due to cost

And finally, stick an A series chip in there. It already far exceeds the clock speeds of anything intel has coming out for these low power machines, and would fix the MacBooks biggest weakness (power) and would have the advantages of iOS such as a much more Secure Enclave on the chip.

Do this Apple, and you’ll have made my dream Mac
 
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ondert said:
are these things ever going to maintain their clock speeds up under sustain load?
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This is how the 2017 MacBook Core m3, i5, i7 behave during sustained CPU load: 10+ runs of Cinebench

MacBook2017-CinebenchR15-m3-wood.png


The Core m3 dropped from 265 go 246 or 7% after about 30 mins.
 
EugW said:
Well, I specifically said it was a low volume part.

As for the that article, I've read opinions on it by various people in the industry that say that while it has some truth to it, it's largely a big rant.
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I certainly wish he’d have focused less on the scuttlebut and more on the tech but the guy’s track record is stellar.

I seriously have my doubts Intel can produce that part in high enough number to go in any Mac any time soon, never mind not annoying the PC OEMs by making it Mac exclusive.
 
sir1963nz said:
I won't.
I need USB-A , Ethernet, Thunderbolt 2, Audio out, SD card reader, mag-safe power connector
I need upgradeable RAM and SSD
I need repairability, the ability to replace the battery.
I need a better keyboard with real function keys, not that wank bar, I want a proper layout for the arrow keys

I have ZERO intention of paying Apples price gouge for RAM or SSD to have it there when I buy the computer
I have ZERO intention of paying hundreds of dollars more for dongles, they are unreliable. I have Apple USB-C and Thunderbolt to ethernet adaptors at my job that fail to function on some machines and work on others.
I am forever buying dongles as visiting guests borrow them and forget to return them.
I don't want to be forced into paying Apple for iCloud storage because the SSD is not big enough for my photo library

So, instead of replacing by failed 2011 MBP I have now bought a cheap PC laptop and have thrown Ubuntu Linux on it, my first non Apple machine since the mid 1980's. Sure I don't have all the ports I want, but I have more of them now than I would on any Mac laptop. I am slowly finding software to replace what I had need of, but I am getting there.
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Then don’t buy it, it’s obviously not the machine for you. Apple isn’t going to bring the ports back, same goes for the MBP
 
Feenician said:
I certainly wish he’d have focused less on the scuttlebut and more on the tech but the guy’s track record is stellar.

I seriously have my doubts Intel can produce that part in high enough number to go in any Mac any time soon, never mind not annoying the PC OEMs by making it Mac exclusive.
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That 10 nm part will never be in a Mac. It doesn't fit the bill for any Mac.

My guess is it's basically a 10 nm beta test.
 
CPx said:
I enjoy my 12", I'm using it right now. I don't do any heavy-lifting on it, and the speed is great for me. I love the form factor. The biggest thing that I notice is the screen still has room to improve, compared to a MacBook Pro.
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With the new news, I think I am going to turn away from being all in with the new iPad coming, and take a look at the new MacBook when it comes out. I may end up getting more use out of a MacBook than the new iPad Pro.

Years ago, I had the first iPad Air. While I liked many things about it, it was frustrating to use, compared to the ease of a laptop.
 
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EugW said:
That 10 nm part will never be in a Mac. It doesn't fit the bill for any Mac.

My guess is it's basically a 10 nm beta test.
Click to expand...

I was just about to hit edit on my post and change it to “I seriously doubt Intel can produce that part or any other 10mm part in high enough number to go in any Mac any time soon” but you beat me to it so replying here for clarity
 
CrazyForCashews said:
Yeah I don't understand why the 12" MacBook is so bloody expensive? It's got inferior specs compared to the base MacBook Pro yet costs the same...

Like what? The base MacBook Pro IS the better machine, and the only real advantage the 12" MacBook has its weight. But then again, it's not like the 13" MacBook Pro is heavy, not at all.

Apple's pricing is very weird and confusing. They should've had the 12" MacBook replace the Air and priced it accordingly.
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It made sense initially.

The same exact thing happened years ago, but the roles of the MBA and MB were reversed.

When the MBA first came out, it was hot stuff... but it was pricey as all hell. You pay for the innovations of a new and dramatic design. It took them some time to get the design right and drop the price. It eventually was just as powerful and the same price as the old MacBook, so the old MacBook was discontinued.

So the same exact thing is happening now. But it’s taking forever. The Retina MacBook has remained at that price since it was released and there is no alternative for an entry level laptop for students since the MBA has been given no love.
 
mi7chy said:
Shame it's still 14nm. That's what happens when you become big and complacent.
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Dennard scaling is over. An x86 in 10nm technology isn't going to be significantly faster than 14nm. Now an new Apple arm64 core in 10nm, that would be interesting.

tyusrex said:
The weight reduction shouldn't matter in the overhead bin of a plane, when you are driving, sitting in a shuttle, or with the computer on a desk in your hotel.
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That's right... because I didn't even bother to pack the MacBook Pro on many trips because of its added weight. I'm much more likely to grab the iPad or MacBook Air 11. I prefer to lift weights in the gym, not while standing in long airport security lines, or rushing through a crowd to catch the train, etc.
 
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tipoo said:
They'll maintain their base speeds, but not their turbo, that's the whole concept of Turbo in general but even more so for the 5 watt parts. The turbo is for a burst of work like loading a web tab.
Click to expand...

Are there any charts that show how long turbo speeds are sustained broken down by ULV, 15w, 28w, 45w, and desktop CPUs? I would expect the desktop chips to be able to sustain those speeds for a much longer amount of time depending on the use of air vs. liquid cooling. Of course liquid cooled machines are usually overclocked which renders the turbo boost useless.
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Dydegu said:
It made sense initially.

The same exact thing happened years ago, but the roles of the MBA and MB were reversed.

When the MBA first came out, it was hot stuff... but it was pricey as all hell. You pay for the innovations of a new and dramatic design. It took them some time to get the design right and drop the price. It eventually was just as powerful and the same price as the old MacBook, so the old MacBook was discontinued.

So the same exact thing is happening now. But it’s taking forever. The Retina MacBook has remained at that price since it was released and there is no alternative for an entry level laptop for students since the MBA has been given no love.
Click to expand...

This is because the Retina display probably adds a lot more cost to the machine than just a slimmer chassis with an SSD drive. The R&D for the fanless design and the battery layout probably cost them a significant amount of money as well. That's just my guess.
 
lec0rsaire said:
Are there any charts that show how long turbo speeds are sustained broken down by ULV, 15w, 28w, 45w, and desktop CPUs? I would expect the desktop chips to be able to sustain those speeds for a much longer amount of time depending on the use of air vs. liquid cooling. Of course liquid cooled machines are usually overclocked which renders the turbo boost useless.
Click to expand...
It depends on the individual chips, and on the chip model, not just the TDP class.

For example, in the iMac, some people have been able to run the i5-7500 (65 Watt) at high load for hours on end, and never ramp up the fan. However, put a relatively high load on the i5-7600 (65 Watt) and the fan will eventually ramp up, at least partially. Let's say after 10 mins.

Put a high load on the i5-7600K (91 Watt) and the fan may ramp up partially after 10 mins. Put the same load on the i7-7700K (91 W) and the fan will ramp up in 30 seconds.
 
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BasicGreatGuy said:
With the new news, I think I am going to turn away from being all in with the new iPad coming, and take a look at the new MacBook when it comes out. I may end up getting more use out of a MacBook than the new iPad Pro.

Years ago, I had the first iPad Air. While I liked many things about it, it was frustrating to use, compared to the ease of a laptop.
Click to expand...

So did I. In fact I still use it. I prefer doing work on a notebook so for consumption the original iPad Air is still sufficient. The reduction in weight vs. the original iPad and iPad 2 was really remarkable. While I've tried out the iPad Pros several times, I feel like anything I would want to do on it, I can do better on my MBP. Drawing with the pencil is cool but I don't do much of it these days.
 
I much prefer media consumption on my iPad. Plus the iPad offers stuff like Netflix downloads, which is great for the plane. I can't do that with a laptop, due to Netflix policy (DRM?) restrictions.

I much prefer productivity apps on my MacBook. The iPad is fast enough to run Excel just fine, but from a user interface point of view, it royally sucks. I even have a well-regarded full-size Bluetooth foldable keyboard for it and it still sucks since there is no trackpad. I don't like touch screens for this type of stuff.
 
sublunar said:
Great spot by @EugW :cool:

The Romanian site linked in the story has a table that shows the Amber Lake Y CPUs with Intel UHD615 graphics though. It's the 15w CPUs - with the i5 dubbed i5-8265U - that come with UHD 620 graphics and these should in theory come into the MBA replacement. This would be broadly in line with the CPUs and their iGPUs in current use across the Apple range.

A few takeaways from this:

Apple could use native USB-C 3.1 Gen 2 ports (10Gb/s - double the classic USB3 speed) with the 300 series Intel chipset that would be required to drive the Amber Lake Y CPUs. If they put 2 into the 12" MacBook and created a 128Gb base SKU it could become a decent entry level machine with the faster ports.

I'll assume the 3rd generation keyboard will be making its way onto the MacBook in due course but adding a Thunderbolt 3 controller at the same time would make the MacBook a very attractive proposition.

Dell offer a 3200x1800 display on their Amber Lake Y machine whereas the 12" MacBook screen comes in at a fraction of the resolution. Even if you compare size for size, this dwarfs even the 2560x1600 screen resolution of a 13" Retina MacBook Pro which Apple drive with Iris Graphics 15w CPUs. Clearly Apple have battery life and GPU performance considerations to adhere to.

The Whiskey Lake U CPUs lack the Iris Graphics that would have gone into a like-for-like replacement non touch bar MacBook Pro and it now looks increasingly unlikely that such an SKU will be available to Apple. For me, that's another sign that there is no replacement CPU for that model in the pipeline.

Instead, the cheaper CPU could drop into the Retina Macbook 13" - the MBA replacement - leaving Apple with a conundrum as to what ports to add to this next machine which is allowed to have softer specs by dropping the 'Pro' moniker. They could go with combinations of the following:

a. 2 USB-C (Gen 2) ports assuming the 12" rMB stays with 1 port
b. 2 Thunderbolt 3 ports like on the nTB MBP - if the 12" rMB gets upgraded to Thunderbolt 3
c. 4 USB-C (Gen 2) ports assuming the 12" rMB goes with 2 ports
d. 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports (with the right most pair on half speed due to the CPU only having 12 PCIe lanes)

Any argument for extra ports would be because the Air had extra ports so dropping down to just 2, especially losing Thunderbolt, would be harsh even if it allowed Apple to hit a price point. It wouldn't be surprising though.
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The Whiskey Lake 15W parts you reference are just 14nm++ parts that replace the i5-8250U, i5-8350U, i7-8550U and i7-8650U 14nm+ parts that were released last August. Quad with GT2 graphics. Apple wasn’t interested in them last year, but sure they could go into a machine meant to be a MBA replacement.

Regarding a possible new 13”, I don’t think the way to get a $999 MBA replacement is to introduce a larger version of the $1,299 12” MacBook. The $1,299 MB or $1,299 nTB MBP could be reduced to $999, or the MBA in its current form factor can be upgraded with a better processor and presumably a retina screen.

Or, a completely new 13” machine is introduced to replace both MBA and the nTB MBP. But they already have the current nTB, why a new machine? This is what doesn’t make sense about a new 13” machine. Apple always said the 13” nTB is the replacement for the Air.

How does a brand new machine become a better $999 replacement for the MBA than the current nTB—a platform that has easily sold 10-15 million units (nTB+TB) already.
 
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In many ways, the 12" MacBook is my favorite Mac I've ever owned. I love it in gold (black and silver is the new almond these days), it's incredibly light and minimalist with the width of the edge-to-edge keyboard defining the size of the machine, Retina display and amazing speakers for its size.

It's the best Mac for the couch and I find it much more enjoyable to use than the ergonomic conundrum that is using an iPad when you have to type something or are sick of holding it upright. Looking forward to more speed and a lower starting price and I'll be replacing my 2015 with a new one.
 
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Jamie0003 said:
Then don’t buy it, it’s obviously not the machine for you. Apple isn’t going to bring the ports back, same goes for the MBP
Click to expand...

I went though the PPC 7300 years where Apple produced rubbish.
This time Apple has gone for form over function.
And this time there is no Steve to save things.

Apples advantage was its ecosystem and that is being dismantled piece by piece.

Apple is forcing me to use Linux instead of osx server to get the functionality I want
Apple is forcing me to Linux to get the hardware that I want
Apple has broken the Apple ecosystem.
Thank goodness I had not invested much in iTunes and I can leave without huge costs.
Problem is once I have invested in Linux its likely I will stay invested for a long time
The next problem is I have over 200 Macs at work and I no longer know if Apple is viable anymore so we may shift to Linux/Windows for everything.

Apple can spend the next 20 years dithering over which font look best on what screen, but what I want is a tool to use. Its like I need a socket set, and all Apple does now is produce the worlds best screwdriver
 
It’s either going to be one of these new 12” MacBooks or the new 13” MacBook Pro for me this year, waiting until these are released until making my decision.

Will these get a big spec bump just like the MBPs have not long gotten? Also what are the chances they will also get the True Tone display?
 
Dave245 said:
It’s either going to be one of these new 12” MacBooks or the new 13” MacBook Pro for me this year, waiting until these are released until making my decision.

Will these get a big spec bump just like the MBPs have not long gotten? Also what are the chances they will also get the True Tone display?
Click to expand...
Most of the increased performance of the new MBP is from adding 2 extra cores. The 12” MB will stay at 2 cores, though there’s a nice increase in turbo clock speed. Definitely no 32GB RAM option. True Tone is possible, but who knows if it will be included.
 
PickUrPoison said:
Most of the increased performance of the new MBP is from adding 2 extra cores. The 12” MB will stay at 2 cores, though there’s a nice increase in turbo clock speed. Definitely no 32GB RAM option. True Tone is possible, but who knows if it will be included.
Click to expand...
Nah. I don’t think many people buying the 12” MacBook really care about TrueTone anyway. I don’t. What I’d like to see, maybe in this order too:

1. Better trackpad
2. 2nd USB-C port
3. USB 3.1 Gen 2 10 Mbps
4. Thunderbolt 3
5. 720p iSight camera, with better low light ability
6. Better keyboard
7. Quad-core
 
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EugW said:
Nah. I don’t think many people buying the 12” MacBook really care about TrueTone anyway. I don’t. What I’d like to see, maybe in this order too:

1. Better trackpad
2. 2nd USB-C port
3. USB 3.1 Gen 2 10 Mbps
4. Thunderbolt 3
5. 720p iSight camera, with better low light ability
6. Better keyboard
7. Quad-core
Click to expand...
I was answering OP’s question about the MB refresh rumored for Q4. He asked whether a big spec bump was likely.

From your wishlist, only the upgraded keyboard would seem likely.
 
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