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Yeah, and Vulkan, even though it was released after Metal, can power games like Doom. Metal still cannot render a single game that's not in Beta (except perhaps WoW, but that's not exactly cutting edge in terms of graphics), more than a year after its release on the Mac. Get your sh*t together Apple!

Granted, the issues may lie in the drivers given that (according Marksatt) most of the code used by Metal is there. So that's up to AMD, nVidia and intel. Still, the ultimate responsibility is on Apple. They're the ones who get affected by the lack of games, so they're the one who have to make sure Metal works.

Well, I don't think your comparison to Vulkan there is entirely fair, for a couple of reasons. 1) Vulkan took over from Mantle, so to say it had a pretty neat head start, especially on AMD cards. 2) Vulkan has implementations on Windows, the biggest desktop/laptop gaming platform, where a lot of resources from game developers, GPU manufacturers (and thereby driver developers), and of course the platform holder, Microsoft, are going to go into resolving issues, since gaming is important to the platform, unlike the Mac, where games play a less significant role. And finally 3) The Vulkan API has got the backing of the Khronos Group, and is being tested on a lot of different platforms, making bug finding and reporting go faster.
 
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Vulkan being based on Mantle would only help AMD drivers. AFAIK, Vulkan is fully functional on nVidia cards as well.
And I don't think MS wants to help Vulkan in any way (since it competes with DX) and has anything to do with Vulkan drivers.
I understand that GPU vendors have more incentive to make drivers on Windows. But if some lack of incentive is what affects Mac users right now in a very concrete way, not to say developers, it's up to Apple to rectify the situation. They may spend some of their billions in cash, give some to AMD/nVidia engineers, do whatever it takes I don't care, but they gotta fix the damn drivers. We're got some thousands $ machines that can't run recent games because the software is buggy. That's inexcusable.
 
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Metal still cannot render a single game that's not in Beta (except perhaps WoW, but that's not exactly cutting edge in terms of graphics), more than a year after its release on the Mac.
In all fairness: three games. Besides WoW, there's Headlander, which doesn't really use cutting edge graphics either, and Refunct, which does run on the Unreal Engine 4, but uses only a small number of modern features and has fairly primitive graphics otherwise.
 
Vulkan being based on Mantle would only help AMD drivers. AFAIK, Vulkan is fully functional on nVidia cards as well.

There are quite a few similarities between modern GPUs no matter the vendor, and Vulkan picking up the Mantle (hehe) in a more open manner could also benefit nVidia in some ways. Regardless, as far as I'm aware, the troubles with Metal are isolated to AMD anyhow, so maybe AMD is where the help is most necessary.

And I don't think MS wants to help Vulkan in any way (since it competes with DX) and has anything to do with Vulkan drivers.

It helps to have software available for the platform you're in charge for. Even though Apple makes iWork, I think they're happy to have MS Office available on macOS too. Just like I think MS is happy that there are functioning, not too broken Vulkan implementations on Windows
 
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There's probably a good reason why all shipping Metal games, including this one, aren't games with cutting edge graphics by any stretch.

Let's seen when Metal powers a game like the latest Doom. Deus Ex HR looks good, but Metal isn't ready for it yet.
 
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There's probably a good reason why all shipping Metal games, including this one, aren't games with cutting edge graphics by any stretch.

Let's seen when Metal powers a game like the latest Doom. Deus Ex HR looks good, but Metal isn't ready for it yet.

I'm confident Metal will take off this year. Once Deus Ex comes out (as well as other titles Feral has up it's sleeve, some of them being delayed due to Metal as well, like Hitman or Dirt), that might kind of break the ice and show how games with top end graphics can perform using Metal and we'll start seeing more AAA titles brought to macOS again.
 
B-b-but MacRumors trolls told me Metal was a dead API!
Yeah. Because whole four games (six counting publicly available betas) using Metal for Mac in the 21 months since its announcement are totally a sign of the API's vividness…
 
Yeah. Because whole four games (six counting publicly available betas) using Metal for Mac in the 21 months since its announcement are totally a sign of the API's vividness…

Plus quite a few games in development – that's at least a sign of it being far from a "dead API".
 
21 months isn't very long as far as game development goes. That's not even 2 years, and I would have been surprised if there were any significant number of Metal games before then, regardless of its quality. Although I'm not sure what excuse Apple has for taking so long to fix the issues that have been preventing some game releases.

--Eric
 
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The API is not dying, the platform does. Metal will continue to be an excellent API on iOS, where apple's interest lays on. Macs on the other hand, have much greater issues and seem to be an afterthought for apple nowadays. No API can fix that.
 
There's probably a good reason why all shipping Metal games, including this one, aren't games with cutting edge graphics by any stretch.
Well...the graphics in The Witness are stylized, but not trivial. Actually it appears to be a good fit for Metal, since that's about reducing CPU driver overhead; a heavily GPU-bound game that's bogged down by complex shaders won't get much benefit from Metal. There are areas in The Witness where there's a great deal of stuff being drawn, and with all the settings maxed, I'm running at 1920x1080 using 4X MSAA with vsync on and it doesn't appear to be dropping frames. (Edit: for comparison, The Talos Principle on the same machine with settings on high, but not maxed, gets about 45 fps on average, so I had to turn vsync off or else it was stuck at 30.)

--Eric
 
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21 months isn't very long as far as game development goes. That's not even 2 years, and I would have been surprised if there were any significant number of Metal games before then, regardless of its quality.
And yet, as I already pointed out earlier, there are as many – currently six including betas – commercially available games using Vulkan after only about half that time (more if you count open source projects), and more than three times as many games using DirectX 12 in the same period as Metal. Despite both of these APIs being significantly harder to develop for.
 
And yet, as I already pointed out earlier, there are as many – currently six including betas – commercially available games using Vulkan after only about half that time (more if you count open source projects), and more than three times as many games using DirectX 12 in the same period as Metal. Despite both of these APIs being significantly harder to develop for.

And? Neither of those APIs are available on Mac. You're complaining your orange plants don't grow bananas.
This debate is going nowhere.
 
And? Neither of those APIs are available on Mac. You're complaining your orange plants don't grow bananas.
This debate is going nowhere.

I totally agree, Wubsy. The one thing I think we all share is a passion for Mac gaming. Some of us are bullish on it, while some of us are bearish. And I think that, each of our individual perspectives is legitimate, and changes over time. So, given enough time, we'll each contradict ourselves, in terms of what we say on message boards or social media. :)

It really just depends on what you choose to surround yourself with. I'm every bit as competitive as the next guy or gal, and I want our platform of choice to be the best at everything. It's frustrating when it's not, but that doesn't make me want to give up macOS or Apple. My logical brain knows that it's not necessarily reasonable, but the heart wants what the heart wants! I know that some of you read my ongoing series of threads for game and benchmark performance on Apple's OS update releases, as well as my Ultra Settings Thread and my 60 FPS Thread. Those were super fun to do, and also informational to show how an increasingly-aging iMac can cope with the advance of time and technology, and I'll continue to do those. Just like you guys, I keep an eye out for interesting and exciting developments in graphics for macOS.

One of the most obvious things I love to keep up with (and one of the things that will definitely earn a bookmark for me every time) is any upgrade option for my iMac. eGPU has definitely earned a whole bookmark folder, from sites like macvidcards, techinferno, etc. eGPU has come a long way since its first generation of products (which started out very hacky, kludgy, and could very well brick your Mac), to the point where 3 command lines in Terminal and one cut and paste can accomplish the same thing with little risk. On the hardware front, Akitio's new Node box simplifies external GPU boxes by adding a PSU internally, a power switch on the box, makes it more attractive by allowing full-length and full-width PCI-E cards. Short of Apple building eGPU support into macOS natively, eGPU has become as easy to do as it's probably going to get. And the expense of doing so has equally dropped dramatically. You just need the Node box for $269.99 (available at B&H Photo but backordered) https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...T3IA_AKTU_Thunderbolt3_External_Pcie_Box.html, a gaming-level video card - starting at $114.99 if you're team red https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-Rad...TF8&qid=1489503108&sr=1-1&keywords=AMD+RX+460 and starting at $109.99 if you're team blue https://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce...=UTF8&qid=1489503021&sr=1-1&keywords=GTX+1050 , plus a Thunderbolt monitor for $149.99 https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VE248Q-...derbolt+monitor&refinements=p_6:ATVPDKIKX0DER !! For $530 to start, you can try out an eGPU project for yourself, to see if it's practical for you.

SSDs are another obvious upgrade path for my iMac, too, and I have an unhealthy obsession with the Samsung 1TB 850 EVO, casting covetous glances at it in my local Best Buy.

Every once in a while, I check out the prices of pre-2013 Mac Pro cheesegrater towers. They're still viable (especially for games that aren't heavily CPU-bound), even though the I/O subsystems are antiquated by today's standards. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-2010-...560LL-A-CTO-/252144503726?hash=item3ab4fbcbae . This gives you an older version of the Mac we all wish Apple would make again, because you can tinker with it, and upgrade the hell out of it.

In closing, in times when the most exciting news isn't coming out of Cupertino, there is still plenty mac-related to be excited about, it really just depends on what you choose to surround yourself with. ;-)
 
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Well 10.12.4 came out today, with Brad Oliver mentioning some good Metal fixes. Let's see if Feral can finally release it.
If Apple hasn't fixed/improved Metal sufficiently by now, I doubt we will see the necessary changes before macOS 10.13.
 
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