Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I finally bought the new Apple TV last week and I have been very disappointed with the lack of apps and games. I think it has great potential as a platform. The graphics aren't console quality, but it looks great compared to a Wii, which I think is a more realistic comparison. Maybe Apple should bundle a controller? I don't really know what the answer is, I am just surprised so few developers have adapted their games.
 
Where is the data to disprove this?
So it's a complete made up claim with nothing to show for. We can continue the conversation when somebody has anything to show for that will in the spirit of this article show us how a rectangular screen holds back developers.
 
So it's a complete made up claim with nothing to show for. We can continue the conversation when somebody has anything to show for that will in the spirit of this article show us how a rectangular screen holds back developers.

Just exactly as yours is a complete made up claim with nothing to "show for".
 
Continues to surge? Where's Amazon Prime? Where's Flixster or Vudu? Where's Twitch? Where's Spotify? Yes, interest continues to surge for developers building fireplace apps, but without the big hitters it doesn't matter. There's a limited amount of quality apps being made now for ATV; most are just garbage. Apple doesn't care though, they just report the gross numbers.

When Apple opens up the watch a bit more and adds some new features developers will jump on board surely.

Oh but those fireplace apps though! The store is literally littered with them. From what I've seen (from the screenshots) they all look terrible with low quality videos.

I'm enjoy the Apple TV 4, but it bugs me that apps like Spotify and Foxtel (Australia) are not on there.
 
Comparing PS4 power and graphics with an Apple TV shows how dum.. you are.

You have to be careful with the name calling, I think it is against forum rules.

Also, I don't think comparing PS4 and the ATV4 is dumb.
First of all, you can compare PS4 and NES if you wanted to, they do not need to be identical to compare.

Second, around the time of the ATV4 announcement and before the ATV4 developer kits were mailed out, there was a bunch of tech articles comparing the A8 chip graphic capabilities to that of PS3 and Xbox 360.

Now, after finding out the requirement of using the ATV4 remote for all apps, and limiting the max app size to 200MB on the ATV4, is probably the reason we will not see to many high quality games on the ATV4. Example: where is the Infinity Blade series? I think this game could be decent with the remote limitations, but the size limitation, is probably the reason it is not currently on the ATV4.

I don't think that comparing the ATV4 to PS4 is wrong. We will never see that graphic quality on the ATV. But, for quality of games, you can still compare them.
 
The bottom line, Apple's policies and products both positive and negative towards developers profits drive app development. Example; Amazon runs on thin margins, making an Apple TV App not a good business decision. Result no app. Comes down to will an App developer make money or not.
 
Can't say that I'm surprised. The size of the display on the watch, coupled with the low powered CPU makes running apps a chore. I think there is a need for apps on the watch, but its very niche, i.e., running apps or anything that can easily operate on such a small form factor.

Are you saying the Watch should have a larger form factor? Perhaps a 44 or 46 MM Watch face? I think the 42 MM stands out nicely, but a larger Watch Face will most likely happen, but with another price point of course.
 
The issue with developing for the watch is simply that it's underpowered.

You might laugh and say developers are always asking for more power, but I'm not talking about hardware performance, I'm talking about Apple's APIs. Even with WatchOS 2.0 and "native apps", you still can't freely place sprites on the screen. There is no UIKit or CoreAnimation equivalent; it's all the same rigid UI framework as WatchOS 1.0, based on lists.

It definitely feels like the software is still 1.0. What we have now are the equivalent of the iPhone's web-apps; Apple still doesn't want to give developers a blank canvas and let them use the hardware in new ways.

That means you can't really make interesting, thoughtful, engaging experiences with the watch. It's all rather same-ish. The system is too riding for you to really serve your customers in the best way, and it's simply not good enough to impress people to buy the Apple Watch.

I have one and wear it regularly. I get a lot of interested people asking me if it's any good and what I use it for. People are interested; there's a market that could grow. They need more impressive software experiences, which look engaging and uniquely tailored to the task and the form factor. Apple isn't letting us deliver those experiences today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbeagle
Are you saying the Watch should have a larger form factor? Perhaps a 44 or 46 MM Watch face? I think the 42 MM stands out nicely, but a larger Watch Face will most likely happen, but with another price point of course.
No, I'm not recommending anything. I'm just pointing out that such a small form factor limits what apps can do.
 
The issue with developing for the watch is simply that it's underpowered.

You might laugh and say developers are always asking for more power, but I'm not talking about hardware performance, I'm talking about Apple's APIs. Even with WatchOS 2.0 and "native apps", you still can't freely place sprites on the screen. There is no UIKit or CoreAnimation equivalent; it's all the same rigid UI framework as WatchOS 1.0, based on lists.

It definitely feels like the software is still 1.0. What we have now are the equivalent of the iPhone's web-apps; Apple still doesn't want to give developers a blank canvas and let them use the hardware in new ways.

I agree.

But, even more, the functionality is limited. For example, if I wanted to create an app that times something. It won't work. You click 'START', watch the timer start, fine.... now drop your wrist and raise it back up again. My app isn't there anymore.

I can't keep the watch constantly on through the APIs, I can't ignore notifications that come in during using my app, and I can't be sure my app comes up after the watch display goes off and comes back on again (there's a user setting for this, but it's not reliable).

So, even a simple thing like a timer is not good right now. I hope the APIs and functionality improves. I was excited for it, now my excitement has waned until the next version of the watch.

I DO wear my watch everyday, and love it. But, can't program what I want for it yet.
 
and let's not forget, extremely violating of ones individual space. I think people will be freaked out by ads on their wrists, as opposed to ads on TVs to which they are used to. Just the sheer thought of that makes me shudder. ugh.
What about ads on their phones? I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering what the difference is.
 
The TV is a better platform for a lot of apps no matter how great the watch is. It can have a huge screen, which means there will be a lot more games. It does video, so you can put apps like HBO or Plex on it while the app on a watch would be extremely limited because of the screen size.

Calendar, weather, remote apps are all great for a watch, but those are limited categories (in pure numbers). Take a look at the app store for the top grossing apps (7 out of 10 are currently games). Yes, if I was a developer making games, I would be much more excited about the AppleTV despite some of the shortfalls that have been mentioned.
 
What about ads on their phones? I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering what the difference is.
I think it's the difference of perception in terms that modern smartphones are considered to be an extension of PCs. They are a mobile internet device that makes phone calls, and although in terms of content they are much more private as it holds more detailed info, people are more likely to accept ads on phones as that idea of a 'mobile internet device' is still there. Not to mention the idea of choice on whether or not we want to carry it around us.

Watches traditionally were more of a low profile and private device that keeps people on time. For some people it could have been a gift, for some others it's just something that they wear daily, but the amount of physical interaction and the potential emotional attachment makes it a much more intimate device. Also I think it's just that general idea that it's literally 'on your wrist' that makes it potentially more intrusive, as there would be a direct nudge on your skin every time there's a new ad.
[doublepost=1464712844][/doublepost]
The TV is a better platform for a lot of apps no matter how great the watch is. It can have a huge screen, which means there will be a lot more games. It does video, so you can put apps like HBO or Plex on it while the app on a watch would be extremely limited because of the screen size.

Calendar, weather, remote apps are all great for a watch, but those are limited categories (in pure numbers). Take a look at the app store for the top grossing apps (7 out of 10 are currently games). Yes, if I was a developer making games, I would be much more excited about the AppleTV despite some of the shortfalls that have been mentioned.
Also it means that Apples competitor to Amazon echo or google home can be a lot more powerful in terms of app compatibility and convergence with our devices in house. The watch from the beginning was quite limited in the current developmental mindset, the approach atm tends to be more details and more info, something the watch can't do. A potential approach for Apple to revitalise the watch Develoment is to accentuate the fact that the watch is not meant to mimic functions or notifications from the phone (that's the most basic level for development) but instead it should serve an alternate purpose that adds to the experience (something devs wouldn't want to do as it may limit some functionality to users who don't have the watch).

I think a lot more thought would need to go towards understanding how the watch can function in a daily workflow, since the use cases right now seem to be very basic imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Saucesome2000
I think it's the difference of perception in terms that modern smartphones are considered to be an extension of PCs. They are a mobile internet device that makes phone calls, and although in terms of content they are much more private as it holds more detailed info, people are more likely to accept ads on phones as that idea of a 'mobile internet device' is still there. Not to mention the idea of choice on whether or not we want to carry it around us.

I think you are exactly right with all of these points. The only thing I disagree with is that it's just a matter of time before we see the same transition on the watch. Ads help developers make money, unless the watch market will be dominated by paid apps. I don't think the current styled ads we are used to seeing on mobile will work, but I do believe the marketing companies will come up with newer ways to advertise to us on the smaller face.

IMO, ads are annoying, but if it keeps developers in business to keep making nice apps, whatever. Without the app store (stocked mostly with ad-supported free apps), the iPhone would simply be the nicest, most efficient PDA in history and nothing like what it is now.
 
Shocked, just shocked..... Apple watch OS isn't revolutionary? Tim said it was going to change the world!!!
 
I think you are exactly right with all of these points. The only thing I disagree with is that it's just a matter of time before we see the same transition on the watch. Ads help developers make money, unless the watch market will be dominated by paid apps. I don't think the current styled ads we are used to seeing on mobile will work, but I do believe the marketing companies will come up with newer ways to advertise to us on the smaller face.

IMO, ads are annoying, but if it keeps developers in business to keep making nice apps, whatever. Without the app store (stocked mostly with ad-supported free apps), the iPhone would simply be the nicest, most efficient PDA in history and nothing like what it is now.
I agree that it's inevitable, I just hope they do it in an elegant way. I mean apples recent ads featuring Taylor swift aren't that bad.

Imagine sitting at home and watching a movie or something and let's say around the half way mark (or depending on the setting every 2-3 hours) you get a short ad (I'm just theorising with Apple ads for the time being) like 'take a time out with Taylor (or any other celeb)' and you get a short 15 - 30 second exercise routine that highlights the Apple Watchs fitness / music features and encourages the viewer to take part in that. Its immersive, lasting, and it's not the typical ad of made up scenes that are hardly relevant to the viewer. Case and point, http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/31/samsung-smart-tv-ads/ is not how one should do ads.

Tiled ads are just as annoying as popups imo and should disappear.

If we were to have ads for watches then I'd want to see more customisation to fit the purpose and setting of the device, as opposed to the usual dumb way of 'oh I'll just make this ad square and smaller'.
 
I was surprised to see a couple of game apps I bought when the iPad 2 came out available for AppleTV (and can use the game controller).

Some of my most favorite games are on Apple TV (Battle Supremacy:Evolution, AG Drive, Galaxy On Fire). But where are many of my iPad/iPhone games that can easily use a big screen and game controller? The "new" stuff is kiddie games and games from classic consoles of which I already on the originals...

I hope it doesn't turn out like Sony's Playstation TV - some great games made compatible for it and great potential, but has come to a grinding halt as far as what is available (lot of Japanese Anime games are the only things coming out for it). There are a lot of PSP and Vita games I would love to play on the big screen with a PS controller from my couch.
 
A far less limited development environment and one that allows them to charge money for apps is more appealing to developers than one that's very limited and doesn't allow charging for the apps? No way!
 
Not quite sure why this is the case. All apps now have to run natively. Perhaps it's because Apple Watch isn't powerful enough. Even opening default apps can take a while, this'll change with Apple Watch 2 though, I expect this will change once the device hits our shelves.

WatchOS has been optimized in such a way that, EVERY policy decision from A to Z has been biased to favor the energy-saving choice over the performance/snappy UI choice. This was probably the right choice for the first year, given people's paranoia over battery life and their lack of anything to compare against.
But I am guessing that it's no longer the correct choice --- people are now aware of how long they can expect the battery to last, they are used to charging every night, and they are now more demanding of a snappy UI.

My guess is that WatchOS 3 will bias policy quite a bit more to more responsiveness, and that battery will take a hit --- but that this will not be a big deal. People will now charge their watch every night at 10% battery left rather than 30% battery left, but will have a better experience during the day.

Of course new HW will also help dramatically, but that's a different story. It's worth remembering that iPhone 1 only got iOS updates up till iOS 3. My guess is that Watch 1 will get this year's update, but maybe not next years. Which is fine by me. Now that Apple has some idea of how watches are used in real life, they can modify the hardware appropriately, and it would be silly to hold the OS back to force it to fit onto what was essentially experimental rev-1 hardware. The current Watch SoC is manufactured on 28nm. If the next one is manufactured on 14nmFF the difference in power usage will be absurd. Radio and screen will still cost power and have to be rationed, but CPU activity, the sort of thing that causes the random slowness today, should be in much more plentiful supply.

As for new health sensors, this is the sort of thing we can look forward to:
http://www.darkdaily.com/princeton-...hat-uses-imaging-technology-119#axzz4AGH6XTO0

Not next year! The QC lasers that drive this cost at least $thousands each, and the supporting packaging stuff (electronics, power supply, cooling, etc) take up a fair bit of space. But make no mistake --- the people working on this are well aware of just how desirable this sort of product is. With luck we'll see dedicated professional (hospital/doctor's office) models by maybe early next year (whole device is handheld, about the size of an iPhone), with the watch model maybe five years after that...
[doublepost=1464721797][/doublepost]
The biggest problem with the Apple Watch is the high price. Apple needs to address that. Because the watch is not that useful, there is a limit to how much people are prepared to pay for it.

The argument "X costs more than I am willing to pay" is not very interesting. It was not interesting when applied to Macs, it was not interesting when applied to iPhones, and it is not interesting when applied to Apple Watch. You can buy an Apple Watch and get the Apple package (a general level of hardware quality, software polish, and integration with the rest of your Apple devices) or you can buy an Android watch for less, and take your chances regarding all these issues. Or you can buy a Pebble for a LOT less, and get quite a bit less functionality. Or you can buy a FitBit. Or ...

Apple is not going to change their prices for you, and you are not adding anything to the discussion by complaining about this.
[doublepost=1464722130][/doublepost]
A far less limited development environment and one that allows them to charge money for apps is more appealing to developers than one that's very limited and doesn't allow charging for the apps? No way!

What are you talking about? Of course you can charge for Watch apps.

Sleep++, for example, charges $1.99 to get rid of ads (worth it, IMHO --- I paid). That is a "Watch app", insofar as any app is --- yes it has a companion iOS part, but that part is useless without the Watch part.

Another example is MacID which costs, what, $3.99. That can be used on only a phone, but I bough it for the Watch part and use it pretty much only for the Watch. I can confidently say that I would not have spent that money for the iPhone, app --- I bought it for the Watch app.
[doublepost=1464723053][/doublepost]
No, I'm not recommending anything. I'm just pointing out that such a small form factor limits what apps can do.

Yes, but that's only a problem if you insist on a certain mental model of the role of "computing".
We saw this when smart phones came out --- there was a MASSIVE idiot contingent that insisted that phones were toys because who wants to work with a spreadsheet on a tiny screen? Who wants to type a document using that ridiculous keyboard? And these are valid complaints; but they miss the point. The point of a phone is not to replace your laptop or desktop for doing the tasks a laptop and desktop are good for. The point of a phone is to give you maps on demand. Or allow you to hail an Uber. Or to send a Snapchat.
These are all things that no-one really though of, or whose full power was not appreciated, if you live in a desktop computing world.

Likewise the point of a Watch is not to run full phone apps; it is to provide one more additional mode of computation. And like phones, it takes time for both developers and users to adapt to this new reality.
What I see in all these threads is a constant drumbeat of people who have not actually LIVED with an Apple Watch, or who have made no attempt to actually try innovative new computing models (like the way MacID allows your watch to unlock your Mac), but they are absolutely certain they know the one true way we should all compute.
People like these have learned nothing from the past. Thirty years ago they were telling us that GUI computing was something new and silly, inappropriate for "real" computers. Twenty years ago they were telling us that the Internet was unimportant because dial-up was so slow, and most people were uncomfortable with strange new concepts like email and web sites. Ten years ago, well, smart phones...

You'd have thought a track record like this would persuade people to at least temper their thinking a little, but no. The one thing I CAN tell you is that, five years from now, they'll be confidently commenting about how they knew all along that Smart Watches were going to be the next big thing, said that on day one...
 
What are you talking about? Of course you can charge for Watch apps.

Sleep++, for example, charges $1.99 to get rid of ads (worth it, IMHO --- I paid). That is a "Watch app", insofar as any app is --- yes it has a companion iOS part, but that part is useless without the Watch part.

Another example is MacID which costs, what, $3.99. That can be used on only a phone, but I bough it for the Watch part and use it pretty much only for the Watch. I can confidently say that I would not have spent that money for the iPhone, app --- I bought it for the Watch app.

Apple Watch apps can't exist without the iPhone counterpart app. Even if they could no one is going to pay money for the limited functionality they offer. There may be a few people that would but the vast majority will not.

My point was that as a developer you're going to invest your time and energy in tvOS rather than watchOS because there is FAR FAR more potential to make a product people want and to make money.

Developers invest their time where they can make the most money which is why we see the largest investment in iPhone development, followed by iPad, then Apple TV, and lastly Apple Watch.
 
Apple Watch apps will find their footing once the hardware becomes fast enough and they go through a few iterations of the OS interface.

I think they're always going to be small, lightweight things. Single actions or glances at information rather than seriously interactive things. We're still on version 1 of these things.
 
Not quite sure why this is the case. All apps now have to run natively. Perhaps it's because Apple Watch isn't powerful enough. Even opening default apps can take a while, this'll change with Apple Watch 2 though, I expect this will change once the device hits our shelves.

i still don't get it, why it is so slow. it's said to have an a5-equivalent processor and 512 mb ram, so it should be as fast as an ipad 2 - which was pretty fast at it's time with a much higher resolution and more complex ui. even my 2nd gen ipod touch with ios 3 does more and runs faster. they either messed up or are have to run it so slow to save battery - but then, a smaller form factor for the watch 2 won't improve things.
 
I agree that it's inevitable, I just hope they do it in an elegant way. I mean apples recent ads featuring Taylor swift aren't that bad.

Imagine sitting at home and watching a movie or something and let's say around the half way mark (or depending on the setting every 2-3 hours) you get a short ad (I'm just theorising with Apple ads for the time being) like 'take a time out with Taylor (or any other celeb)' and you get a short 15 - 30 second exercise routine that highlights the Apple Watchs fitness / music features and encourages the viewer to take part in that. Its immersive, lasting, and it's not the typical ad of made up scenes that are hardly relevant to the viewer. Case and point, http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/31/samsung-smart-tv-ads/ is not how one should do ads.

Tiled ads are just as annoying as popups imo and should disappear.

If we were to have ads for watches then I'd want to see more customisation to fit the purpose and setting of the device, as opposed to the usual dumb way of 'oh I'll just make this ad square and smaller'.
Exactly. I assume we will soon begin to see Minority Report type ads. More subliminal. Maybe just notifications on the Watch when you are near a store that you're known to shop at. You're near a grocery store, "Don't forget to buy more X". Close to your favorite clothing store, "Sweater sale happening now at Express".
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.