Developer Highlights How Fake Apps Scam Users Via Apple's In-App Purchasing System

[Cosmosent]

One would have thought that with AAPL taking a 30% cut NONE of this would have happened.

Phil Schiller runs the App Store, & should get ALL the blame.

He is neither ANY software development experience nor ANY experience running a third-party software company.

Also, the problem is easily solved, AAPL simply needs to hire AND/OR assign 10K App Store "Police" to pro-actively investigating things.

NOT Rocket Science, things could get cleaned-up in just a few months, but it would require Cook to move Schiller aside & become pro-active.

Odds of that happening slim to none, unfortunately.

 

[laptech]

Whilst the word 'scam' gets continually bandered about, what is taking place is fraud, obtaining money by false pretences, which is what the fake apps are doing. The only pay system allowed in the app store is Apples pay system and as a result Apple gets a percentage from developers/users everytime the pay system is used. This therefore means that Apple is profiting from fraud, which is a crime.

Be interesting to see if Apple get investigated for this.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

Why do you imagine this? Amazon is easy to get a refund for something, Apple isn't. 3rd parties using their own payment provider will provide the CS and no one can say whether any individual software company will be easy or hard to work with. You always have your CC / bank as a last defense. Dispute the charge. Easy.

Everytime I requested a refund from Apple (three times, to be exactly), there was absolutely no problem or questions asked. So you're wrong.

 

[Jgreg00]

Tbh, why would you ever pay for a VPN, or any app, with no reviews or anything? That’s ridiculous and on the purchaser....

 

[Dan Holmstock]

One thing the mentioning of Epic Games got me thinking of:

Imagine they get their way and alternate payment / subscription methods are allowed in the App Store. How would you get a refund for a Scam App if they use another / their own payment provider? I imagine it will be MUCH harder than getting a refund from Apple.

The Scam Apps will always be there trying to get around any barriers Apple set up, but if they can charge you directly without going through Apple, they will be much more succesfull and much harder to stop.

I agree Apple is doing a very poor job of stopping them now (and make money themselves from the scams) but they DO have a point when they warn against alternate app stores and payment systems. But they need to be MUCH BETTER themselves at policing their store if they want to prove the benefit of the walled garden is real.

but this is an assumption that other stores will not setup payment systems in place that offer protection. For example say Amazon wants to offer an app store, their reputation will be on the line, offering a terrible store and i am sure they are waiting to learn from Apples mistakes and offer what Apple is not. Just saying that is the other side of this coin.

 

[I7guy]

This just shows that its not really Apple making the sale, but the Dev making the sale and Apple getting a cut. Its all fundamentally profit for Apple. Only when things hit the press they do something. Otherwise, they are very good and quick in enforcing policies in and around their cut.

The Apps you love from the only place you can get them on your phone.

Actually, it's the app store making the sale on behalf of the dev, and Apple is getting a cut for providing the management and hosting of the app; as it should.

 

[jhollington]

Apple is happy to sit on their hands. They're making a lot of money off these in-app purchases. It's only when the cost of negative press, unhappy users, and refunds outweighs the profit they are making now that anything will change.

I don't think the money that Apple is making is the issue here. While the amounts of these scams seem like huge amounts of money to us mere mortals, Apple's cut is little more than a rounding error against the $20 billion in revenue it made from the App Store last year. It's like a public official who makes $100K/year selling out their reputation and integrity for couple hundred bucks.

Apple should be held 100% accountable for this. They should be issuing full refunds.

Regardless of the reason, however, this point is completely correct. While Apple is happy to offer refunds on demand (I've never had one refused even for legitimate apps), whenever a fraudulent app is identified Apple should automatically refund all of the in-app purchases that were made in that app.

To be fair, maybe Apple actually is doing this, but somehow I doubt it...

 

[gnasher729]

This just shows that its not really Apple making the sale, but the Dev making the sale and Apple getting a cut. Its all fundamentally profit for Apple. Only when things hit the press they do something. Otherwise, they are very good and quick in enforcing policies in and around their cut.

The Apps you love from the only place you can get them on your phone.

I thought Apple will refund the money if you complain in a situation like this. I mean Apple, not the developer. And refund you 100%, and charge the developer 100%, when the initial scam only paid 70% to the developer.

 

[gnasher729]

Tbh, why would you ever pay for a VPN, or any app, with no reviews or anything? That’s ridiculous and on the purchaser....

This VPN had plenty of reviews. All telling you how good this app is. And all fake.

There's an app in the store that I wrote just as a hobby. First thing when it went on the store, I got emails from people offering me to submit positive reviews for the app. Maybe I should have done it, would have sold a few more. Felt like a scam to me, so I didn't.

 

[jhollington]

I thought Apple will refund the money if you complain in a situation like this. I mean Apple, not the developer. And refund you 100%, and charge the developer 100%, when the initial scam only paid 70% to the developer.

That's pretty much exactly what they do.

Technically speaking, Apple doesn't pay the money out to the developer right away. I think the payment cycle is still monthly, based on the previous month's sales, and it can take up to 45 days after the last day of that month for the money to arrive. So in most cases, Apple is still holding onto the money and the developer hasn't gotten any of it at all yet. So when a refund is issued, that's money the developer never sees at all.

 

[Will Co]

A lot of emotion here on this one.

Be interesting to have some sort of independently assessed figures that put this into context. I'm not trying to make excuses for Apple but we should remember that scams and fraud are nothing new. Thus has it ever been, and likely ever will be. I wonder, for example, what percentage of revenue coming in through the AppStore could be attributed to fraudulent or scam apps like this. 1%, 0.1%, 0.01%?

I too have never had a problem getting a refund, and I've asked on many occasions. I have to say, though, as a developer myself, I'm amazed that apps like this get past approval, and even more so that apparently there is no process to keep an especially close eye on very high revenue generators, such as one that generates over $1m a month. That's not just sensible for folks like us, who I've no doubt Apple really are trying to keep safe, but also for their own reputation's sake, when something like this crops up.

 

[I7guy]

I don't think the money that Apple is making is the issue here. While the amounts of these scams seem like huge amounts of money to us mere mortals, Apple's cut is little more than a rounding error against the $20 billion in revenue it made from the App Store last year. It's like a public official who makes $100K/year selling out their reputation and integrity for couple hundred bucks.


Regardless of the reason, however, this point is completely correct. While Apple is happy to offer refunds on demand (I've never had one refused even for legitimate apps), whenever a fraudulent app is identified Apple should automatically refund all of the in-app purchases that were made in that app.

To be fair, maybe Apple actually is doing this, but somehow I doubt it...

Not 100% clear, but this wasn't an in-app purchase. This was someone giving their login credentials and recovery key to the prompts in an app. There was no monetary transfer.

The operator used that information to get their bitcoins.

 

[I7guy]

Whilst the word 'scam' gets continually bandered about, what is taking place is fraud, obtaining money by false pretences, which is what the fake apps are doing. The only pay system allowed in the app store is Apples pay system and as a result Apple gets a percentage from developers/users everytime the pay system is used. This therefore means that Apple is profiting from fraud, which is a crime.

Think a few different thoughts are being conflated into hyperbole.

Be interesting to see if Apple get investigated for this.

Maybe they should. Haven't heard anything from Apple on the matter. Of course, it could be this is fake news.

 

[fmillion]

How about, if a scammer uses Apple's payment system and it's reported to Apple and they don't react (at least until the press gets it), Apple's 30% profits are now ill-gotten gains and Apple is just as liable as the scammer - and given that many of these scammers are overseas, at least in the US it's going to be Apple who gets hit.

Watch enforcement shoot up REALLY effing quick.

 

[9927036]

Tbh, why would you ever pay for a VPN, or any app, with no reviews or anything? That’s ridiculous and on the purchaser....

NO. Entirely Apple's fault in their walled secure garden.

 

[9927036]

Surprise surprise ....

Indeed. How can this be happening?

Sideloading Apps Would 'Break' the Security and Privacy of iPhone, Says Tim Cook

In a wide-ranging interview with The New York Times' Kara Swisher, on her podcast "Sway," Apple CEO Tim Cook talks about Apple's feud...

www.macrumors.com

 

[now i see it]

App Store has degenerated into the Wild Wild West. Can't trust downloading apps anymore.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Apple is happy to sit on their hands. They're making a lot of money off these in-app purchases. It's only when the cost of negative press, unhappy users, and refunds outweighs the profit they are making now that anything will change.

Apple prefers to make a few hundred thousand dollars per month in exchange for a chance of getting global amounts of negative press with a looming law to break apart the App Store?

No.

 

[farewelwilliams]

Why do you imagine this? Amazon is easy to get a refund for something, Apple isn't.

False.

I was able to ask for refunds on DLCs from the App Store I made several years ago. Asphalt Overdrive no longer worked on my phone because Gameloft decided no one was playing anymore and stopped supporting it. I got $40 back years after I made the purchases.

What app refund did you get denied from? I am sure that you don’t have a single personal instance of when Apple denied you a reasonable App Store refund.

 

[Jarutais]

So basically the App Review process that all developers hate means nothing? How could something like this get approved to be released?

 

[laptech]

Reading more posts in here, it got me thinking. If there is someone in the criminal justice system who has an axe to grind with Apple, this could get extremely difficult for Apple. If an app is designed with the sole intention of getting ios users money by fraudulent means (a 'scam' app) and this app gets through Apples vigorous checking system and starts to draw in money via Apple's pay system, a system where Apple takes a percentage, this percentage will sit in some bank account somewhere accumulating interest whilst Apple goes through it's process of refunding money to it's users and banning the app from the store. But what happens to all the interest that was accumulated? The interest is the by product of a criminal act, fraud, fraud on the part of the app developer. By law Apple is not allowed to keep this money so what do they do with it? Do they keep it in the hope that no one says anything?

In the article, the developer who investigated the fraudulent app reports that the app in question grosses approximately $1 million a month from it's unsuspecting users. Now if it takes Apple a few days or weeks to investigate the app, how much interest is Apple earning whilst that $1 million is sitting in one of it's bank accounts. Now if there are thousands upon thousands of 'scam' apps all doing the same thing, just how much money from ill-gotten gains is sitting in Apple's bank accounts earning them interest? Yes Apple will refund the original purchase amount to it's users but what about the millions or potential billions of $$$ in interest built up from the ill-gotten gains?

It is therefore extremely plausible to claim that it is not in Apple's best interest to vigorously investigate scam apps because in doing so it would close a very profitable revenue stream.

 

[I7guy]

Reading more posts in here, it got me thinking. If there is someone in the criminal justice system who has an axe to grind with Apple, this could get extremely difficult for Apple. If an app is designed with the sole intention of getting ios users money by fraudulent means (a 'scam' app) and this app gets through Apples vigorous checking system and starts to draw in money via Apple's pay system, a system where Apple takes a percentage, this percentage will sit in some bank account somewhere accumulating interest whilst Apple goes through it's process of refunding money to it's users and banning the app from the store. But what happens to all the interest that was accumulated? The interest is the by product of a criminal act, fraud, fraud on the part of the app developer. By law Apple is not allowed to keep this money so what do they do with it? Do they keep it in the hope that no one says anything?

In the article, the developer who investigated the fraudulent app reports that the app in question grosses approximately $1 million a month from it's unsuspecting users. Now if it takes Apple a few days or weeks to investigate the app, how much interest is Apple earning whilst that $1 million is sitting in one of it's bank accounts. Now if there are thousands upon thousands of 'scam' apps all doing the same thing, just how much money from ill-gotten gains is sitting in Apple's bank accounts earning them interest? Yes Apple will refund the original purchase amount to it's users but what about the millions or potential billions of $$$ in interest built up from the ill-gotten gains?

It is therefore extremely plausible to claim that it is not in Apple's best interest to vigorously investigate scam apps because in doing so it would close a very profitable revenue stream.

This is not like an IAP. Where the app doesn't do much except gather credentials, I would think it would be hard for apple to determine the apps true intent. And even reporting an app can take time. I can see scenarios, where devs report apps in the hopes of knocking off the competition, when the app that was reported was perfectly legit.

So in the realm of anything can happen, sure Apple could be held liable, if this wasn't fake news. On the other hand, this may turn out to be user error.

 

[jhollington]

Not 100% clear, but this wasn't an in-app purchase. This was someone giving their login credentials and recovery key to the prompts in an app. There was no monetary transfer.

The operator used that information to get their bitcoins.

This is not like an IAP. Where the app doesn't do much except gather credentials.

I wasn’t sure what you were getting at with your earlier comment, but now I’m wondering if you were reading the same article that this comment thread is attached to… It seems this is not only exactly like an IAP, but it is an IAP that’s the whole issue here.

There was apparently some confusion about the subscription period not being clearly shown within the app, but that just adds weight to the idea that Apple should, in the very least, make these terms even more obvious on the IAP confirmation screen.

On the one hand, there’s something to be said for people reading more closely before they hit the final “Buy” button, but the flip side is that screen is a bit busier and more cluttered than it needs to be. I don’t think Apple deserves all the blame, but there are certainly things it could do to help avoid potential confusion.

 

[I7guy]

I wasn’t sure what you were getting at with your earlier comment, but now I’m wondering if you were reading the same article that this comment thread is attached to… It seems this is not only exactly like an IAP, but it is an IAP that’s the whole issue here.

There was apparently some confusion about the subscription period not being clearly shown within the app, but that just adds weight to the idea that Apple should, in the very least, make these terms even more obvious on the IAP confirmation screen.

On the one hand, there’s something to be said for people reading more closely before they hit the final “Buy” button, but the flip side is that screen is a bit busier and more cluttered than it needs to be. I don’t think Apple deserves all the blame, but there are certainly things it could do to help avoid potential confusion.

You're probably correct, I was conflating threads, as at times there tends to be spillover. Thanks.

 

[ari_ra]

anyone else seeing twits slogan here?
“netcasts you LOVE, from people you TRUST“
just thought ill throw that in 🤙🏼